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Vernardi
Posted - 2006.11.20 11:52:00 - [1]
 

Hello all,
Now is it me ore are ore thieves no longer ore thieves, gone are the days when a ore thief just nicked your ore. I have met a few of late and i am surprissed to say they are ussing cruisers, battle cruisers and battle ships. Hmm let me think thats not ore they are taking, nope they are after causing a kill or war betwean corps.

Now this perfectly LEGAL under the new can anf flaging rules, but it seams that was once a menace to most miners is now a seriouse threat!!!!

I for one feel CCP need to adress this issue as its dam rite piracy, Concord there are you, oh I forgot they cant touch the issue.ugh

Any way comments would be welcome please ugh

Sahjahn
Caldari
Temporal Weapon Against Time
Posted - 2006.11.20 11:54:00 - [2]
 

I thought they could only attack you after stealing some ore IF you shot at them?

Or is simply stealing your ore enough to allow them to attack you?

Splagada
Minmatar
Tides of Silence
Posted - 2006.11.20 11:55:00 - [3]
 

most of our miners moved to 0.0 for this sole reason

forcing us to reorganize corp as well space in 0.0 can be hard to find

it makes the problems different, but a lot simpler in a way. there it's no big tricks, just brutal force

Boratora
Gallente
Really Nice And Laidback Corporation
Posted - 2006.11.20 11:55:00 - [4]
 

In my opinion there are certain systems that are worse for these occurrences than others. If you find you are being robbed by a battleship, let him have it and move systems. Be wily and stay one step ahead of the thieves; it's what many species do to stay ahead of predators.

Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
Posted - 2006.11.20 12:00:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Boratora
In my opinion there are certain systems that are worse for these occurrences than others. If you find you are being robbed by a battleship, let him have it and move systems. Be wily and stay one step ahead of the thieves; it's what many species do to stay ahead of predators.


Or maybe just use secure cans...? Neutral

Peter Stuyvesant
Amarr
Posted - 2006.11.20 12:01:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Vernardi
Any way comments would be welcome please ugh

Can-flagging was introduced because miners whined for it. Everyone else saw straight away that it would cause more problems for miners than it solved. Still, they whined. Made your bed? Now lie in it Wink In other words: Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it YARRRR!!

Reggie Stoneloader
Poofdinkles
Posted - 2006.11.20 12:02:00 - [7]
 

The fix I always suggest is requiring goods to be moved to the ship's cargo hold before being deposited in another jetcan, rather than allowing it to be moved en masse.

That way, you wouldn't have an alt in a shuttle or noobship out there taking the criminal flag, since they'd have to sit there, blinking red, for an hour to move it all, giving you and your corp ample time to respond and bust him up. If they want to steal it fast, they have to do it in a hauler, as God intended.

The flagging system also ensures that your respondent gank squad can beat the tobacco juice out of the thief without his friends helping him kill you. They can repair him, I guess, if they're really super-duper organized.

So basically, if you've got three guys who can jump in Caracals and a guy with a Blackbird, there's no ore thief in the world that can withstand your fury, unless he's stealing ore in a carrier or something.

If you want to jetcan mine all by yourself and not get robbed, forget it, and if your corp can't field a basic gank squad, forget it. Jetcan mining is PvP.

Sean Dillon
Caldari
Surreal corp
Posted - 2006.11.20 12:16:00 - [8]
 

You would be amazed how plain dumb some people are. Most people know about the can flagging thing and if they dont then the warning messages makes it clear enough for them.

But their are still miners that can flag, even with a cruiser next to them. They know they will pop you when u give them the permission to do so.

Yesterday I saw another example of this, a mining ferox can flagged a cruiser next to him. It wasn't just a normal cruiser but a deimos, the t2 drones of the ferox didn't have much to say against that. Its unbelieveble how stupid some people are.

Just so you know, normal ore thiefing is a bit boring when you can pew pew some fellas that think they can kill that cruiser just adds to the fun of the game.

Reggie Stoneloader
Poofdinkles
Posted - 2006.11.20 12:20:00 - [9]
 

And it should always be possible to steal ore. Macro miners are my #1 source of ice.

Nikla Uthaan
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.20 12:36:00 - [10]
 

*cough* secure cans *cough*
*ahem* employ secruity *ahem*

But seriously, if you want a *solo* career, dont mine, please? It's a threat because you make it a threat. If i left my car unlocked with the keys in the ignition, I'm 99% sure someone would flog it.

Same goes for ore. Leave valuable stuff floating around other people, someone will nick it.

Oh, i'll leave my pearl necklace on this bench and come back for it once i go home to get my van, oh look someone stole it.

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2006.11.20 13:19:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Andrue on 20/11/2006 13:20:36
Originally by: Sahjahn
I thought they could only attack you after stealing some ore IF you shot at them?
Correct. The OP is missing the post like hundreds of people before him. Quite how so many people can miss the point so badly is something that would amaze me..if I didn't have the benefit of nearly 40 years experience in of studying human beings ugh

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2006.11.20 13:20:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Andrue on 20/11/2006 13:21:05
Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant
Originally by: Vernardi
Any way comments would be welcome please ugh

Can-flagging was introduced because miners whined for it. Everyone else saw straight away that it would cause more problems for miners than it solved. Still, they whined. Made your bed? Now lie in it Wink In other words: Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it YARRRR!!
They were wrong. You are wrong.

It didn't create any problems. It created an opportunity. If the miner doesn't make use of that opportunity nothing has changed.

Peter Stuyvesant
Amarr
Posted - 2006.11.20 14:46:00 - [13]
 

'Perceived problems' then :-)

Allen Deckard
Gallente
Roadking Hawg's
Posted - 2006.11.20 14:51:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Roy Batty68
Originally by: Boratora
In my opinion there are certain systems that are worse for these occurrences than others. If you find you are being robbed by a battleship, let him have it and move systems. Be wily and stay one step ahead of the thieves; it's what many species do to stay ahead of predators.


Or maybe just use secure cans...? Neutral


Never mined have you. Rolling Eyes A secure can cant hold a single cycle of my miner.

What they need to put in the game is what they already have out there and thats the secure cans that hold 100k they exist just not live.

Anonay
Posted - 2006.11.20 15:09:00 - [15]
 

All thisis well and good, but some as said and i must agree. You should not beable to transfer ore from can to can, you should go through cargo hold. Now ore thieveing was all well and good, but now the thieves are not out there in haulers, there in BS's they kill you and then take the mods not the ore.

o.o is a safer place, you can just kill all and be done with it. CCP realy needs to look at the way they are ussing the flag system and this issue.

Herculite
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.11.20 15:10:00 - [16]
 

The solution is pay attention and don't be greedy with your mining. Have a hauler come early and often.

Having a friend in a cloaked pvp ship = priceless.

I'm not sure why people think they should be able to afk mine in peace.

ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2006.11.20 15:11:00 - [17]
 

Well I am a high-sec pirate, I will steal your can and wait until you take it back, ill wait at the station and when you get there youre dead. If I steal something that isnt valuable enough for me to haul ill blow it up.

You have to realise that once youve been robbed it will cost you more to fight back for that can or ore than it would to mine a new one.

I like it better when people work for my money and to fuel my pos, everything but piracy bores me and i cant fight pvp. And I am sure that there are alot of others out there that operate the same way

Cadela Fria
Amarr
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2006.11.20 15:11:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Cadela Fria on 20/11/2006 15:14:00
Miners wanted this...miners got it. In all honesty I say good riddance, because it's a perfect example right there, that the whiney dimwitted people pee'd on their own shoes.
During the time when these arguments first arrived, I was a miner myself (and I, unlike many others, have no problems standing by that..it earned me a pretty penny) and I was part of the group of people who understood what jet-can mining was...it was a nice amount of space you had with a jettisoned can, but it was and always will be..just that..a jettisoned..the equivelant of a garbage can.

You threw the stuff out..and thats what they were intended for. That we got a little creative with them and used them for mining, was a different story though..we can't blame others then ourselves and we shouldn't have been able to demand changes to fit our obvious circumvention of the system so we can have our cake and eat it too.

I was much happier with non-can flagging..it put atleast SOME excitement to mining.
I remember the one time I convinced an incoming ore thief to steal from the one who was sitting next to me, mining in an apoc..claiming he was my buddy and he was mining the high-end minerals, and me the low-end one...ore-thief agreed and went for him instead.
I managed in that time to haul all my ore back, nothing lost....the funny part? I didn't know who the hell that guy mining next to me was, but honestly? Rather him then me. (man was he ****ed btw! YARRRR!! )

thats my 5 cents.

Splagada
Minmatar
Tides of Silence
Posted - 2006.11.20 15:15:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Splagada on 20/11/2006 15:15:39
mining in 0.0 is much more difficult. go risk a hulk in 0.0? between the 1M rats and the pirates, you MUST have an escort, or some nice tricks

the ore? apart from crokite//ark//bistot, which are all in heavily guarded systems (at least systems with sov) the rest is just like highsec

refineries? yes ok we got a 75% one, in a pos we paid, which kills our corp wallet because we're a small corp. but what is the yield you get in your station? 98%?

for highsec, well bring a hauler with you and you're safe. secure can/hauler who empties the can, no risk

(just answering to the comment about 0.0 mining is easy)

Captin Lawdogg
Gallente
Heinous Corpus
Posted - 2006.11.20 15:16:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Captin Lawdogg on 20/11/2006 15:18:44
people that whine about ore theifs are hilarious, there is a real simple way to protect your ore.

1. Mine into a secure can
or
2. Mine with an escort, have him move the ore to his can and the ore theif will be stealing from him rather then from the miner, the escort can then kill the ore theif, or the ore theif will not bother the can and move onto and easy tgt.

If you mine into an unsecure can, don't start crying when your ore gets stolen, its your own fault.YARRRR!!

Blood good
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2006.11.20 15:22:00 - [21]
 

Hire people to protect you.


...Improvise, adapt and overcome, as the old man said.

Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.20 15:26:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant
Originally by: Vernardi
Any way comments would be welcome please ugh

Can-flagging was introduced because miners whined for it. Everyone else saw straight away that it would cause more problems for miners than it solved. Still, they whined. Made your bed? Now lie in it Wink In other words: Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it YARRRR!!


Well before, theives could steal from miners without any risk at all, and absolutely no opportunity for retaliation. All thats changed now is that the miner can *choose* to shoot at him, or can *choose* to let him get away with it exactly as before.

Sounds good to me.

The fact that some miners seem to take it into their head to sick their barge's 5 defensive drones on that their Thief's Megathron is really just their problem.

Cadela Fria
Amarr
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2006.11.20 15:28:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant
Originally by: Vernardi
Any way comments would be welcome please ugh

Can-flagging was introduced because miners whined for it. Everyone else saw straight away that it would cause more problems for miners than it solved. Still, they whined. Made your bed? Now lie in it Wink In other words: Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it YARRRR!!


Well before, theives could steal from miners without any risk at all, and absolutely no opportunity for retaliation. All thats changed now is that the miner can *choose* to shoot at him, or can *choose* to let him get away with it exactly as before.

Sounds good to me.

The fact that some miners seem to take it into their head to sick their barge's 5 defensive drones on that their Thief's Megathron is really just their problem.


Bah! it's too easy...nothing beats the excitement of watching scanners constantly for incoming haulers that don't belong to you, and then have you scramble to get your hauler and get to your ore before the thief!
Those were the days where mining was worth doing!

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2006.11.20 15:36:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Andrue on 20/11/2006 15:37:06
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant
Originally by: Vernardi
Any way comments would be welcome please ugh

Can-flagging was introduced because miners whined for it. Everyone else saw straight away that it would cause more problems for miners than it solved. Still, they whined. Made your bed? Now lie in it Wink In other words: Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it YARRRR!!


Well before, theives could steal from miners without any risk at all, and absolutely no opportunity for retaliation. All thats changed now is that the miner can *choose* to shoot at him, or can *choose* to let him get away with it exactly as before.

Sounds good to me.

The fact that some miners seem to take it into their head to sick their barge's 5 defensive drones on that their Thief's Megathron is really just their problem.
But it's a funny one at that Laughing

I'm an ex-miner (ex- since I got my alt flying L4 courier missions) so I have sympathies with miners. Nonetheless I know from personal experience that you can avoid ore theives by mining somewhere quiet and if you are daft enough to start a fight without thinking of the consequences you will be taught a valuable lesson.

Darcie Wray
Posted - 2006.11.20 16:21:00 - [25]
 

"Well before, theives could steal from miners without any risk at all, and absolutely no opportunity for retaliation. All thats changed now is that the miner can *choose* to shoot at him, or can *choose* to let him get away with it exactly as before.

Sounds good to me."

The above quote is an example of perfect thinking. The quote below just confuses the hell out of me.

"Bah! it's too easy...nothing beats the excitement of watching scanners constantly for incoming haulers that don't belong to you, and then have you scramble to get your hauler and get to your ore before the thief! Those were the days where mining was worth doing!"

It's too easy? What do you mean? Just as haulers used to be able to swoop in from space and steal your ore and then warp out in again, they STILL CAN NOW. Whats more, you can have cloaked buddies present who try to stop him. *AND/OR* -HE- can have cloaked buddies waiting around to destroy YOU. If it was complex and fun before, its only mroe so now. Miners now have the ***OPTION*** to fight back, whereas before they did not. I totally totally totally do not get your logic AT ALL. (It's because there is no logic.) More options, nothing at all lost from before, same tactics can be used, and more have been added as well.

Saleia
AFK Mining
Posted - 2006.11.20 16:43:00 - [26]
 

Can flagging...Who me?....YARRRR!!

Kaell Meynn
Divergence
Posted - 2006.11.20 17:10:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant
Originally by: Vernardi
Any way comments would be welcome please ugh

Can-flagging was introduced because miners whined for it. Everyone else saw straight away that it would cause more problems for miners than it solved. Still, they whined. Made your bed? Now lie in it Wink In other words: Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it YARRRR!!


No one asked for the current system. Thats like saying people asked for Tempests to do more burst damage, so they gave them a 10x higher damage mod but 10x longer rof.... but then made the guns not able to be fired at all.

You're either trying to just troll, or are clueless. The system wasnt designed first and then "whined" for. It was a process developing it and the implementation changed a number of times. You COULDN'T have known beforehand it would cause problems to miners and not protect them, as IT WASNT DESIGNED YET.

This system is not at all what miners asked for.

Pirates, ore theives, and griefers got what they "whined" for. Miners did not.

Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2006.11.20 17:13:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Darcie Wray
"Well before, theives could steal from miners without any risk at all, and absolutely no opportunity for retaliation. All thats changed now is that the miner can *choose* to shoot at him, or can *choose* to let him get away with it exactly as before.

Sounds good to me."

The above quote is an example of perfect thinking. The quote below just confuses the hell out of me.

"Bah! it's too easy...nothing beats the excitement of watching scanners constantly for incoming haulers that don't belong to you, and then have you scramble to get your hauler and get to your ore before the thief! Those were the days where mining was worth doing!"

It's too easy? What do you mean? Just as haulers used to be able to swoop in from space and steal your ore and then warp out in again, they STILL CAN NOW. Whats more, you can have cloaked buddies present who try to stop him. *AND/OR* -HE- can have cloaked buddies waiting around to destroy YOU. If it was complex and fun before, its only mroe so now. Miners now have the ***OPTION*** to fight back, whereas before they did not. I totally totally totally do not get your logic AT ALL. (It's because there is no logic.) More options, nothing at all lost from before, same tactics can be used, and more have been added as well.


Reading Comprehension skills a bit rusty? He's saying that NOW it's too easy compared to before. BECAUSE of the suggestions you made. Before your only option/hope was to get your hauler to the can before theirs. (Actually there was a trick you could use, which still works, to preven them from getting the ore.)

Rask
Posted - 2006.11.20 17:17:00 - [29]
 

I Know allot of our alliance cruise empire space looking for macro miners, then they steal ore. If the macro miner speaks up they give it back.
But if they don't speak up they will rob them blind.

Everyone once in a while a macro miner will take a pot shot at them, and then it is kill time.


And I haven't read the entire thread, but I believe that who gets ore stolen have kill rights, but as soon as they shoot the thief is free to shoot back. so as long as the miner doesn't shoot back they are safe from being killed.



Nicocat
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.20 17:54:00 - [30]
 

Can flagging got me my first ever Proto Cloak I off of a Nemesis that shot back at me. Thank you, can flagging!

Announcer: Nicocat is not a paid actor, he's just an *******. Results not typical. Consult with your local CONCORD representative and/or GM before stealing from suspected macro miners.


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