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Liyanna
Posted - 2006.11.19 15:53:00 - [1]
 

Wouldn't it fix the complaint on missile damage if it was a bonus of instead of bonus to. As in all missiles used with this ship hit physically harder and give a kinetic bit of damage.

IE: random missile set with base damage. Ship gives 50% kinetic bonus at lvl 5.

As it is now:
EM 100 = 100EM
EX 100 = 100EX
KI 100 = 150KI
TH 100 = 100TH

Change it to +50% kinetic damage and we get.

EM 100 = 100EM 50KI
EX 100 = 100EX 50KI
KI 100 = 150KI
TH 100 = 100TH 50KI

You could do the same for drone damage bonus etc. It would still allow the flexibility of using different damage types but stick the bonus to that one damage kind. Yes No? Terrible Idea?

Nev Clavain
Wise Guys
Rogue Method Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.19 15:57:00 - [2]
 

What's wrong with missile damage as it is?

Do they really need to be made even more versatile?

Personally, I don't like the idea.

Haffrage
Regeneration
Posted - 2006.11.19 18:22:00 - [3]
 

Missiles doing two damage types?

YES PLEASE <3

lofty29
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.11.19 18:48:00 - [4]
 

Yes, lets give missiles a 50% damage increase. Its not like theyre powerful as they are now or anything Rolling Eyes

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.19 18:50:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: lofty29
Yes, lets give missiles a 50% damage increase. Its not like theyre powerful as they are now or anything Rolling Eyes

Did you even read the post, lofty? I thought you were better than that.

He's not proposing more bonuses, he's proposing a change to the current damage bonuses for missiles.

Jim McGregor
Posted - 2006.11.19 18:50:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Jim McGregor on 19/11/2006 18:51:09

Add nuclear missiles while you are at it. Takes out a couple of regions at impact...

I dont know why you would want to change it so missiles do more damage types? You get higher dps with just one.

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.19 18:53:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Jim McGregor

Add nuclear missiles while you are at it. Takes out a couple of regions at impact...

I dont know why you would want to change it so missiles do more damage types? You get higher dps with just one.


He wants to make it so that all missiles get the damage bonus, rather than just kinetic. A valid change, IMO.

Jim McGregor
Posted - 2006.11.19 19:06:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Dark Shikari

He wants to make it so that all missiles get the damage bonus, rather than just kinetic. A valid change, IMO.


Sure, if they give them different range like for turret ammo. :)

Risien Drogonne
Shadow Gypsies
R i s e
Posted - 2006.11.19 19:08:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Dark Shikari

He wants to make it so that all missiles get the damage bonus, rather than just kinetic. A valid change, IMO.


Sure, if they give them different range like for turret ammo. :)


What, you mean like rage vs javelin?

Tsar Maul
Posted - 2006.11.19 19:11:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Tsar Maul on 19/11/2006 19:12:04
Or just make missiles have racial characteristics and damage progression like drones do. Then all ships can get a 25% missile ROF bonus while still having Kinetic as their top damage (like how thermal drones will always out-damage other drones but are weaker in other areas). An example:

Damage: Kinetic > Explosive > EM > Thermal
Velocity: Explosive > Thermal > Kinetic > EM
Ex Radius: Thermal > EM > Explosive > Kinetic
Ex Velocity: EM > Kinetic > Thermal > Explosive

Azerrad InExile
Posted - 2006.11.19 19:41:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Tsar Maul
Damage: Kinetic > Explosive > EM > Thermal
Velocity: Explosive > Thermal > Kinetic > EM
Ex Radius: Thermal > EM > Explosive > Kinetic
Ex Velocity: EM > Kinetic > Thermal > Explosive


Thats definitely how it should be done, but I'd leave out the change in Ex Radius. Turrets/drones don't have any way to modify their signature resolution (basically equivalent to explosion radius in missiles) and it should be kept that way for missiles.

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.19 19:44:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Azerrad InExile
Originally by: Tsar Maul
Damage: Kinetic > Explosive > EM > Thermal
Velocity: Explosive > Thermal > Kinetic > EM
Ex Radius: Thermal > EM > Explosive > Kinetic
Ex Velocity: EM > Kinetic > Thermal > Explosive


Thats definitely how it should be done, but I'd leave out the change in Ex Radius. Turrets/drones don't have any way to modify their signature resolution (basically equivalent to explosion radius in missiles) and it should be kept that way for missiles.

The "worse" drones that do less damage move faster and have other benefits. So the missiles with less damage should have a benefit also.

FFGR
Maza Nostra
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.19 19:55:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Azerrad InExile
Originally by: Tsar Maul
Damage: Kinetic > Explosive > EM > Thermal
Velocity: Explosive > Thermal > Kinetic > EM
Ex Radius: Thermal > EM > Explosive > Kinetic
Ex Velocity: EM > Kinetic > Thermal > Explosive


Thats definitely how it should be done, but I'd leave out the change in Ex Radius. Turrets/drones don't have any way to modify their signature resolution (basically equivalent to explosion radius in missiles) and it should be kept that way for missiles.

The "worse" drones that do less damage move faster and have other benefits. So the missiles with less damage should have a benefit also.


Can missiles also get more damage in the t2 version without any drawbacks ?

Leave missiles as they are.
If anything should happen in the damage bonuses it would be a "secondary" damage bonus like :

Amarr : 5% EM, 2.5% Thermal
Caldari : 5% Kinetic, 2.5% Thermal
Gallente : 5% Thermal, 2.5% Kinetic
Minmatar : 5% Explosive, 2.5% Kinetic

Terror Messenger
Posted - 2006.11.19 20:02:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Terror Messenger on 19/11/2006 20:03:35
I like this idea, and would take it one step further...

give each races missile ships a bonus applying to their racial damage type as well. No need to make this solely a Caldari buff.

Gallente: +10% to Thermal/lvl
Minmatar: +10% to Explosive/lvl
Amarr: +10% to EM/lvl
Caldari: +10% Kinetic/lvl

Azerrad InExile
Posted - 2006.11.19 20:29:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Dark Shikari
The "worse" drones that do less damage move faster and have other benefits. So the missiles with less damage should have a benefit also.


Yes they should move faster (higher velocity which also yields higher range) and have other benefits (high explosion velocity which is very similar to higher tracking). I completely agree with you on that.

I don't agree that one of those other benefits should be the ability to own small ships easier.

Malthros Zenobia
Posted - 2006.11.20 00:51:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Dark Shikari

He wants to make it so that all missiles get the damage bonus, rather than just kinetic. A valid change, IMO.


Sure, if they give them different range like for turret ammo. :)



Sacrifice propulsion for payload?

/me thinks about torps with -75% range, and +75% dmg.Twisted Evil

F'nog
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2006.11.20 01:20:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 19/11/2006 18:51:09

Add nuclear missiles while you are at it.




They're called Explosive missiles. Check their descriptions.

Hllaxiu
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.11.20 01:25:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Dark Shikari

The "worse" drones that do less damage move faster and have other benefits. So the missiles with less damage should have a benefit also.


Explosive drones, yes. However EM drones just suck in general...

Old Geeza
The Retirement Home
Posted - 2006.11.20 01:31:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: FFGR
Can missiles also get more damage in the t2 version without any drawbacks ?


Because turret ammo does too? The only turret ammo that had no drawbacks was Barrage and that now has a lovely 25% tracking penalty on it.

Risien Drogonne
Shadow Gypsies
R i s e
Posted - 2006.11.20 02:09:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: FFGR

Can missiles also get more damage in the t2 version without any drawbacks ?


What, you mean other than the drawback of being able to be shot?

Alexi Borizkova
Caldari
New Age Solutions
The Laughing Men
Posted - 2006.11.20 04:57:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Dark Shikari

He wants to make it so that all missiles get the damage bonus, rather than just kinetic. A valid change, IMO.


Sure, if they give them different range like for turret ammo. :)



Sacrifice propulsion for payload?

/me thinks about torps with -75% range, and +75% dmg.Twisted Evil


I've been talking about missiles with fuel as payload for years. The farther they fly, the more payload they expend, and thus the less damage they do. At point blank, devestating, at long range, laughable at best. perhaps even with AOE so they make you take that into consideration before you use them close to yourself.

Gonada
The Scope
Posted - 2006.11.20 05:11:00 - [22]
 

ya just what EVE needs, one race to rule them all.

caldari, IE: easymode for noobs

huge damage, never misses nerf missles instead

Nicholai Pestot
Gallente
Scorpanti Corporation
Posted - 2006.11.20 07:36:00 - [23]
 

I would have to say no.

From the bonuses its quite plain to see that kinetic missiles are the Caldari's racial weapon.

It would be like allowing amarr pilots to get an EM damage bonus when fitting railguns.

The bonus to kinetic missiles promotes thought and encourages making choices when going into combat. Do you go for raw initial damage output with kinetic,or do you sacrifice that and try to look for holes in your opponents resistances?

Its the last 'tricky' thing left for missile boat users to think about, without that its just 'lock target F1F2F3 etc'

Depp Knight
Evolution
KenZoku
Posted - 2006.11.20 09:38:00 - [24]
 

Though I do like and understand your idea but anything that makes Caldari more versatile is a no for me and though your idea may not be intented for just caldari, but seriously what other ships out there get bonuses to missiles that are not caldari?

I can only think of one class.

Eudyptes sclateri
Posted - 2006.11.20 09:49:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Terror Messenger
Edited by: Terror Messenger on 19/11/2006 20:03:35
I like this idea, and would take it one step further...

give each races missile ships a bonus applying to their racial damage type as well. No need to make this solely a Caldari buff.

Gallente: +10% to Thermal/lvl
Minmatar: +10% to Explosive/lvl
Amarr: +10% to EM/lvl
Caldari: +10% Kinetic/lvl


I think there's a few ships like this already. I could swear Amarr have a frigate that gets EM missile damage bonus or something... and the Gallente Nemesis (stealth bomber) has a bonus to thermal.

Mirasta
Taurus Inc
Mournival Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.20 09:50:00 - [26]
 

The problem is allmost every ship in the game thats not caldari is getting a bounous to 2+ damage types. The Domi doesn't get a thermal damage bounous to large hybrids, it gets a damage bounous.

The raven is only getting a damage bounous to 1 damage type. Quite often the bounous applys to 50% of your weapons, loading 3 launchers with kin damage type and 3 with thermal damage type for an even damage type spread.

If there as a fix for this problem it should be to make the ravens bounous apply to Kinetic and Thermal damage types. This would mean you can get the same spread of damage that blasters do with a bounous to 100% of your weapons, just like blaster ships get.


DarK
STK Scientific
Posted - 2006.11.20 09:52:00 - [27]
 

I think this just highlights that missiles are pretty boring weapons as they are preset andlack any form of customization such as tracking comps, different ammo types, launcher types, etc.

Easymode indeed, no thought required at all.

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2006.11.20 11:28:00 - [28]
 

I'm increasingly of the opinion that missiles need some variance. IMO it should either be:
All missiles the same, just different damage colour: Replace the 'damage type specific bonus on ships' with something more generic. Not necessarily rate of fire.

All missiles different - take a page from drones, where some are more damaging, others are faster, and others have better tracking/optimal.
Change all the missiles that in addition to damage type you get to choose the appropriate missile for range, explosion radius/velocity and total damage. Would take a bit of tweaking, and I'm definitely not meaning to suggest that missiles should be buffed specifically.

Things like kinetic missiles doing most damage, but with reduced explosion velocity and radius, because caldari ships _tend_ to be large signature and slow.

Down to explosive missiles doing least damage, but relatively better at hitting 'smaller faster' ships, because minmatar/angels tend to be a bit faster on average, and have lower signature radius.

Just for a laugh, have it different between guided/unguided too - Caldari and minmatar are both the 'missile users' really, so perhaps have guided missiles 'highest damage' being caldari, but unguided being minmatar.

Or something. Vary by sort of 10% or so either way, and I think you have an interesting solution to the problem. And then redefine 'tech 2' missiles, as the 'more extreme' versions, so the highest precision cruise missile is also the lowest damage etc.

Reggie Stoneloader
Poofdinkles
Posted - 2006.11.20 12:17:00 - [29]
 

It is kind of a drag that Caldari ship bonuses only apply to one ammo type. I don't think anyone would be happy to see the Rifter's bonus changed to a 5% bonus to small projectile turret tracking speed and 5% bonus to Nuclear S damage per level of Minmatar Frigate or a Vexor with a 10% bonus to Hobgoblin and Hammerhead HP and damage per level.

Letting the kinetic bonus carry over rather than making it a straight-up damage bonus is a little weird though. I guess it works, and kind of fits with the velocity bonus, but I'd rather see a .375% bonus to damage of all heavy and light missiles instead of a 5% bonus to just kinetic ones on the Caracal, for instance.

Nikla Uthaan
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.20 12:39:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 19/11/2006 18:51:09

Add nuclear missiles while you are at it. [...]



you should read the flavour text of missles more, the minmataar have already done that.


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