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Rekless Revenge
Caldari
Caldari Mercenary Corp
Posted - 2006.11.04 18:00:00 - [1]
 

Do not get invited to gangs with people you do not know or do not know for long enough. Even in Empire you will be killed.

I have not been caught out by this. Hopefully after you have read this you should not be caught out by this either.

That is all thank you.

Nhoj Gnol
Gallente
Legio Centaurae
Posted - 2006.11.04 18:05:00 - [2]
 

For those of you who are new to Eve. When you join a gang someone can warp right to you. Thus setting you up. Please be very cautious when accepting gang invites.

Darksaber64x
Ecchi co.
Posted - 2006.11.04 18:05:00 - [3]
 

Might want to put this on "New citizens Q&A" since it applies more to that forum than here.

Good message though. Lofty's been using that trick for quite a while, and even tells people what he does.

Just be careful if you aren't the gang leader, and with whom you are ganged with.

Rekless Revenge
Caldari
Caldari Mercenary Corp
Posted - 2006.11.04 18:11:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Darksaber64x
Might want to put this on "New citizens Q&A" since it applies more to that forum than here.


You would be surprised on how many people who are not new are also fallible to this.

JuriBe
Anarchia Inc
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2006.11.04 21:31:00 - [5]
 

This happened to me several months ago in Uedema and I am not really a noob, over a year old. Had a character by the name of Inevitability contact me and ask me to gang, I accepted (I am mostly a trader, so I wasn't aware of this exploit). As I was docking at a station, I came under attack. What had happened was a warring corp with Inevitability's corp had the rights to take me down. This wasn't and accident, it was all planned of course. I lost a Mastodon, a set of expensive cargo expanders, a cloaker and 4000 units of construction blocks. I informed CCP and they reimbursed the ship and some stock.

Oh well dumb old me, Live and learn I guess. The end result of that incident was the creation of a ruthless PvP alt, so it wasn't all bad.

Zarch AlDain
GK inc.
Posted - 2006.11.04 21:49:00 - [6]
 

They can warp right up to you, but in high sec they can't kill you without getting blown up by Concord.

Or are you accepting invitations in low sec?!?

Lord WarATron
Amarr
Shadow Warri0rs
Posted - 2006.11.04 21:53:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Zarch AlDain
They can warp right up to you, but in high sec they can't kill you without getting blown up by Concord.

Or are you accepting invitations in low sec?!?



1. Noob runs lvl4 mission.
2. Pirate get invited to gang.
3. Pirate has a wardec with another pirate corp, thus making the noob also a victim in gang
4. The wardec'ed pirate corp will either join gang, or kill mission runner without gang.
5. The noob may or may not see a warring gang warning depending on the order of gang invites. A perfectly safe looking gang can become hostile without the noob being aware.

lofty29
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.11.04 22:01:00 - [8]
 

Oh god its catching on like wildfire!

Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
Posted - 2006.11.04 22:08:00 - [9]
 


It's been going on as long as I can remember, still people get cought out by it.

Blatent abuse of game mechanics to kill people in protected space, yet it's still not classed as an exploit.

Silly, IMO. Rolling Eyes


Glumpumpkin
House Elf Liberation Front
Posted - 2006.11.04 22:11:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Zarch AlDain
They can warp right up to you, but in high sec they can't kill you without getting blown up by Concord.

Or are you accepting invitations in low sec?!?



This is incorrect. Situation:

I am in House Elf Liberation Front
My buddy in Malfoy Inc. wardecs my corp.
I invite you to my gang.
My buddy can attack you without being CONCORDed, even though you don't have the wartarget icon on the overview.

Ashira Twilight
Posted - 2006.11.04 22:42:00 - [11]
 

An ex-corpmate of mine got ganked in this fashion in his CNR. He got a reply to his petition, pretty much "sorry, it's game mechanics". He was last seen saying "bye, this character will be on ebay tomorrow".

He never read the forums too much, just mined and did missions in high sec, and had never heard about this exploit. He had no idea this was possible, had no clue whatsoever about what was going on. I believe this is a silly exploit that people need to be aware of.

Although, it would be nice if the "at war" warnings on gang invitations could extend to people who are already in the gang and allow existing members to opt to ungang or stay before other waring parties entered the gang.

Baleorg
Gallente
Guys of Sarcasm
Posted - 2006.11.04 22:52:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: JuriBe
I wasn't aware of this exploit) [...] What had happened was a warring corp [...]

1. you get a popup with "warring gang warning", not an exploit
2. your only excuse and stating "exploit" (sorry, no exploit either, just annoying):
someone gangs you, the someone gangs someone else with warring thing, you dont get warning, but can be attacked. thats what lofty loser does


for point 1, your fault ^^

Matori Kar
Caldari
SlightlyAnnoyingGitCorp
Posted - 2006.11.04 22:56:00 - [13]
 

Best way:

1: Have 3 accounts (or friends) - Alt 1 in noob corp, Alt 2 in his own corp at war with Alt 3 (Mr Ganker) also in his own corp.
2: Invite Victim 1 into gang with Alt 1 - therefore no 'at war' warning
3: Invite Alt 2 to gang - thus making Victim 1 a war target of Ganker 1 without Victim 1 ever knowing.
4: Warp Ganker 1 to Victim 1 and have some fun

This is called 'doing the Lofty'

Its a total exploit of the system, but just dandy with CCP.

Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari
Emminent Terraforming
O.G.-Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.04 23:06:00 - [14]
 

the stupid thing with the system is the neutral in the gang cant fire until fired apon. imo they should have the same kill rights as the gang leader. however this would lead some bad exploits that make the current setup the best route.

Futuri
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.04 23:38:00 - [15]
 

There is NO warning whatsoever, the victim is invited to the gang then gangwarped to a safe spot and killed (by the pirate who's at war with his own alt who joins the gang AFTER the victim).


DefJam101
Gallente
Monolithic.
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2006.11.04 23:41:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: lofty29
Oh god its catching on like wildfire!


lollerskatesLaughing

Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.05 00:07:00 - [17]
 

I've resorted to sending gang invites to SS'd war targets, when I'm bored. No-one has bit yet, but one day Very Happy

Khanidee
Posted - 2006.11.05 00:15:00 - [18]
 

Welcome to Eve, unfortunately there are some truley sad and talentless PvP'ers in this game that need to resort to such tactics to get their name on a kill board some place - looks like you just met one of them. Move on and learn to kill people with skill it's a whole lot more satisfying.

lofty29
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.11.05 00:17:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Khanidee
Welcome to Eve, unfortunately there are some truley sad and talentless PvP'ers in this game that need to resort to such tactics to get their name on a kill board some place - looks like you just met one of them. Move on and learn to kill people with skill it's a whole lot more satisfying.

You think I do it for killboard stats? Shocked Tell that to my wallet...

Khanidee
Posted - 2006.11.05 00:19:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Khanidee on 05/11/2006 00:19:56
Originally by: lofty29
Originally by: Khanidee
Welcome to Eve, unfortunately there are some truley sad and talentless PvP'ers in this game that need to resort to such tactics to get their name on a kill board some place - looks like you just met one of them. Move on and learn to kill people with skill it's a whole lot more satisfying.

You think I do it for killboard stats? Shocked Tell that to my wallet...


You do it because you are a forum tart

JuriBe
Anarchia Inc
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2006.11.05 01:38:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Baleorg
Originally by: JuriBe
I wasn't aware of this exploit) [...] What had happened was a warring corp [...]

1. you get a popup with "warring gang warning", not an exploit
2. your only excuse and stating "exploit" (sorry, no exploit either, just annoying):
someone gangs you, the someone gangs someone else with warring thing, you dont get warning, but can be attacked. thats what lofty loser does


for point 1, your fault ^^



Although CCP does not classify this as an exploit, it certainly is when the person trying to gang you is using it as a way to pop your ship.

I beleive I mentioned it was my mistake, however thanx for pointing it out again, would you like a cookie?

Galk
Gallente
Autumn Tactics
All the things she said
Posted - 2006.11.05 01:59:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Verone

Silly, IMO. Rolling Eyes




Bloody hell vernon, you calling it out Very Happy

I help many out in high, call the gang yourself (normaly it's one guy asking) look at the drop box... war decs ect... non... then follow it through...

Thats it basicaly, no mucker is going to screw you over in high sec for being the nice guy.

Lord WarATron
Amarr
Shadow Warri0rs
Posted - 2006.11.05 10:59:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: lofty29
Oh god its catching on like wildfire!


The latest version of your technique has the solo pirate joining a mission runner corp, and when the time is right, and he know the mission runner is in the uber multi billion officer setup, he will simply pirate with impunity from concord as they are in the same corp.

Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
Posted - 2006.11.06 06:13:00 - [24]
 

I nearly got caught out by this exploit myself. Someone was calling for help in local with a mission. I was in the middle of a mission myself or I would have helped. Someone else ganged up to help him out and 10 minutes later there was much swearing in local.

Some of those lvl1 missions are a ***** for a new player, so I'll still help out sometimes, but only if they are still in an NPC corp. You can't wardec the NPCs, so you don't have to worry about this (as far as I know anyway).

Tyler Lowe
DROW Org
Brotherhood of the Spider
Posted - 2006.11.06 06:48:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Rooker
I nearly got caught out by this exploit myself. Someone was calling for help in local with a mission. I was in the middle of a mission myself or I would have helped. Someone else ganged up to help him out and 10 minutes later there was much swearing in local.

Some of those lvl1 missions are a ***** for a new player, so I'll still help out sometimes, but only if they are still in an NPC corp. You can't wardec the NPCs, so you don't have to worry about this (as far as I know anyway).


Wrong.

It's not the guy asking for help that has the war dec on. it's the other guy/alt that he invites *after* you join the gang. You never see a warning. depending on how well it's timed, you may not get the chance to leave the gang.

There is one way, and one way only, short of telling every new player asking for help to suck it up and deal, id to make sure you are the one forming the gang in all cases, and ensuring that the new player asking for help is either part of an NPC corp, or not currently at war.

It's amazing to me that something that requres this level of manipulation of in game mechanics is not considered an exploit. It isn't however, for whatever reason. I really hope it doesn't lead to more new players being ignored when asking for assistance.

Chienka
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.06 06:58:00 - [26]
 

I think loftys playing pay-or-post with his victims... YARRRR!!

Sli'co Scoser
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2006.11.06 07:51:00 - [27]
 

This is why you don't help anyone with anything ever.

Greenwing
SuX ltd.
Posted - 2006.11.06 07:56:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Tyler Lowe

It's amazing to me that something that requres this level of manipulation of in game mechanics is not considered an exploit. It isn't however, for whatever reason. I really hope it doesn't lead to more new players being ignored when asking for assistance.


That's the main reason i think CCP should do anything against it. Eve is a game to play with multiple people and it's just wrong you can't gang anybody you don't know in high-sec because you always have the risk of being ganked. Empire shouldn't be 100% safe either, but the risk-reward of trying to kill anybody in high-sec should be way higher. Atm empire suicide ganks and this gang trick are way to easy/rewarding/without any risk.

I've got a Raven specifically fitted for lvl1/2 missions with only some heavy launchers and some other worthless fittings just so i can help people without having to worry about my ship (lofty almost killed himself when he saw it because he started to laugh so hysterically he almost couldn't stop :P ) But i think a lot of people will stop (/have allready stopped) helping new mission runners and that's just wrong for a MMORPG. In E&B i always loved it you could help/get help anywhere you were with anything you were doing, too bad that's just impossible atm in Eve.

Lord WarATron
Amarr
Shadow Warri0rs
Posted - 2006.11.06 09:47:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Lord WarATron on 06/11/2006 09:54:30
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 06/11/2006 09:52:00
In the past, I used to do lvl4's, aggro everything in a multibillion setup and sit there afk tanking them all and invite noobs to come in to kill off the rats. It was very handy for training noobs, as I could focus on telling players about how to setup their ships, what skills will help them in PvE etc, as well as the fact that they would get a share of the bounties and whatever loot they collect gets split by themselves and the corp hangers. I would also split mission payouts, since the lp's were enough for me. I even replaced their ships on some occasions.

Oh, and since this was a 0.4, the same "noobs" would become a swarm army of tacklers at a drop of a button, ready to defend against any pirates. They would learn about the dangers of low sec, how to mine in paranoid mode etc etc.

From little acorns great oaks grow. These "noob's" are harderned pvpers unafraid of loosing their ships, excellent POS managers and fantastic logistic organisers within 0.0 currently.

Indeed, those who have seen how 'Out Siders' has grown from nothing to become a megacorp relise it is only because people help each other uncoditionally without any force. One high point was when we were wardeced by 3 merc corps. I dont think anyone expected a "Noob corp" to have dreads gatecamping with 20+ players looking for blood! :) I felt truely sorry for the guy who jumped into a 0.4, thinking "pfft,noobs in frigs", only to see bs's in sniper positions, suicide tacklers and a dread taking pot shots anything it could hit.

In todays climate - I fear that many others will not be planting acorns, since the culture of alts means anyone could be a high sec pirate in disguise. Truly the game has taken a nosedive, but then again, people have to adapt.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2006.11.06 09:58:00 - [30]
 

This just in: Eve players are not always trustworthy


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