open All Channels
seplocked Ships and Modules
blankseplocked We need Medium-Capacity Haulers!
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2006.11.01 23:35:00 - [1]
 

Well today the servers are down & I have time to bring up a much griped about issue here. I say that we need a hauler the will fill the gap between industrial ships which haul around 5000m3 of stuff and take about 2 days (if that) to be able to use and can be bought for about 500000k isk, and freighters which haul 75000m3 of stuff take at least a month to train the skills for and start at 150000000isk. To me that gap is waaay to large. We need a hauler which fits somewhere in-between these.

Industrial.
-Capacity.--------5000m3 (up to 15000m3)
-Cost.------------500000-1000000isk
-Training Time.---1-2days
-Tech LVL---------1

Freighter.
-Capacity.--------75000m3
-Cost.------------150000000isk and upwards
-Training Time.---1 month or more
-Tech LVL---------1


We need something like this:

Hauler
-Capacity.--------25000-35000m3
-Cost.------------30000000isk
-Training Time.---1-2weeks
-Tech LVL---------1


MongWen
Xeno Tech Corp
Self Destruct.
Posted - 2006.11.02 07:50:00 - [2]
 

Great idea, it would help all the haulers out there. but we already have the Transport class haulers, but they are not anyway near to a Freighter

and i would like too know where you can get a Freighter for 150mil isk. they normaly go for 800-1000 mil ??? Twisted Evil

Zigg Omelo
NorCorp Enterprise
Norcorp
Posted - 2006.11.02 09:24:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Zigg Omelo on 02/11/2006 09:24:42
No

It would completely unbalance 0.0 logistics.

Besides, you can already get more than 27500m3 space in several of the existing transport ships and interons 5.

What i hope tho is that they get a new pos module making it able to load/unload freighters at POS

ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2006.11.02 16:36:00 - [4]
 

I dont see how it would do anything but good, able to carry more means that you are mining in cans less, you could haul most of your ships around inside of it.

And btw transport ships hold less than industrials.

So IDK you tell me what negative aspects there would be.

The Enslaver
Viziam
Posted - 2006.11.02 17:11:00 - [5]
 

Only if it has the same restriction on it's cargo that the freighters do.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2006.11.02 17:32:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 02/11/2006 17:33:04
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 02/11/2006 17:32:36
/ signed

I would add a little twist: I feel that all the industrial should use a skill: industrial, and the different racial ones had a different prerequisite based on the racial frigate skill (gallente frigate for the Iterons, ecc.), getting a skill tree similar to the Destroyers and Battlecruisers.

Gaogan
Gallente
Solar Storm
Sev3rance
Posted - 2006.11.02 19:49:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: ghosttr

And btw transport ships hold less than industrials.



No. There are two types of transports: The blockade runner, and the Transport. The blockade runner holds less but is fast greased lightning and can tank somewhat. The Transport proper is the big mover. An Occator can fit around 30,000 m3, and I think the Amarr one can hold even more.


Langhorn
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.11.02 20:00:00 - [8]
 

As it's already been said, you can get around 30,000 m3 of cargo in industrials already.

and Freighters carry 720,000 - 785,000 m3 of cargo (not 75,000), plus 5% per level.

So if anything, a Hauler should carry around 200,000, and cost around 100m

Myadra
Posted - 2006.11.02 21:20:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Myadra on 02/11/2006 21:20:16

I beleive they should make heavy transport ships, with larger cargo capacity, but alot weaker, and hold around 20k-50k base m3, just so its easyeir to haul around those mobile factorys for POS's, they are a pain to move in my Impel.

also, possibly a ship hauler class with a ship maintenance bay 200,000 m3 / corp hanger of 5k m3 for launching frigate fleets, but I can fly carrier and it fits this role ok :)

SentryRaven
KIA Corporation
Zenith Affinity
Posted - 2006.11.03 10:25:00 - [10]
 

*me hints at the link in his signature*

Small Freighters 4TW!!

Piotr Kosigan
Posted - 2006.11.04 01:59:00 - [11]
 

I brought up much the same point in corp recently. To those who say that just because you can use (25m isk each) named cargo expanders to boost certain racials to 20-30k, the point of this is that there is no built in 20-30k, 3wk to 1mo training time ship for each race.
In fact, it takes a non-Gallente 47 days to train Itty 5 to get the 30k with cans, and did I mention the 125-150million in cargo expanders? I think that's a little unreasonable to expect of everyone who didn't pick Gallente as their race and who doesn't have 100m+ to blow on making up for this game design deficiency.
to the OP, I say good point! We need specialty haulers like "Bulk Transports" that hold 25-35k, but can't take cargo or freight containers and have no slots, and cost 10-20m each.


Langhorn
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.11.04 20:33:00 - [12]
 

An Iteron 5 with 5 x cargo expander 1s, + cargo containers will hold approx 21k m3. So hardly need to spend a fortune to get 20k+ cargo space.

If you are going to create a new ship class, why not design it to fill a gap in the market, not to make it easier to achieve something which you can already do.


ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2006.11.04 20:38:00 - [13]
 

AS stated before if you didnt choose that race your sol, and im talking about something that can at least hold a jet can or two.

Darksaber64x
Ecchi co.
Posted - 2006.11.04 20:45:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Darksaber64x on 04/11/2006 20:46:16
Originally by: ghosttr
Freighter.
-Capacity.--------75000m3
-Cost.------------150000000isk and upwards


That should be:

-Capacity.--------750,000m3
-Cost.------------1,000,000,000isk

You missed a 0 in both of those.. unless you know of a place I can get a freighter for 150 mil.

ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2006.11.04 21:03:00 - [15]
 

I made this forum during downtime, and didnt have any reliable information sources.

The post is there is bring up the point, that we need something that is affordable by the average player and can hold a jetcan or more of materials

Benglada
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.11.04 23:17:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: The Enslaver
Only if it has the same restriction on it's cargo that the freighters do.


I agree to this, but it should be able to unload at pos's

Ansuru Starlancer
UK1 Zero
Posted - 2006.11.05 12:27:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Ansuru Starlancer on 05/11/2006 12:32:21
Small hauler: Cargo Frigate (200-500ish?)

Small-med hauler: Cargo Cruiser (400-800ish?)

Med hauler: T1 Industrials (3,000-15,000ish?)

Lg-med hauler: Tier 5 T1, or T2 Deep Space Transport with uber expanders (25,000+)

Lg hauler: What you should ***REALLY*** be asking for (50,000-150,000?)

OMGWTFBBQ Lg hauler: Freighter (750,000)

Turkantho
AMT.
Ev0ke
Posted - 2006.11.05 14:23:00 - [18]
 

Whats needed is the following:

A mini freighter that has up to 150k m which has all the same restrictions as a normal freighter BUT can also load / unload at POS modules.

Yamaeda
Amarr
Posted - 2006.11.05 16:23:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Ansuru Starlancer
Edited by: Ansuru Starlancer on 05/11/2006 12:32:21
Small hauler: Cargo Frigate (200-500ish?)

Small-med hauler: Cargo Cruiser (400-800ish?)

Med hauler: T1 Industrials (3,000-15,000ish?)

Lg-med hauler: Tier 5 T1, or T2 Deep Space Transport with uber expanders (25,000+)

Lg hauler: What you should ***REALLY*** be asking for (50,000-150,000?)

OMGWTFBBQ Lg hauler: Freighter (750,000)


I think that's what the OP is after, a large scale transport or a mini freighter. A T2 can load some 25k m3, but it only has ~5k base cargo. What we're after is a indy/freighter/transport with 10-15k base cargo and 4-6 low slots (assume larger base cargo on ships with fewer low slots, as with indys today)

Assuming amarr has the most low slots and the lowest starting cargo (as with indys), 10k cargo and 6 low slots would yield 27k m3 cargo with Expander I's, and 42,8k m3 with best named.

Also assuming caldari has the biggest base cargo and fewest lows, 15k m3 and 4 lows would yield 29k - 39,6k m3 cargo.

Something along that size is what's missing i'd say.

/Y

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:02:00 - [20]
 

I just want a jumpdrive freighter.

Ragnash
Posted - 2006.11.05 19:02:00 - [21]
 

We do really need something inbetween a Deep Space hauler and a Freighter. A cargo capacity of 100k without expanders. It should be able to fit depending on race 1-2 high slots, 2-4 Mid slots and 2-4 low slots.

As for some peeps saying it will unbalance the 0.0 game, what is going to happen when a freighter pilot with Caldari Freighter lvl 4 and 950Km3 or so of space is able to load and unload from a pos?

There is a need for a small freighter/ XL transport, with my Mackinaw, 2 Ice Havester II's and two ice harvesting upgrades I'm mining allmost 50 slices an hour, thats 50Km3 an hour. If I do that for 4 hours I then need to move 200km3 of ice, try doing that in hostile 0.0 for 10 or so jumps. Not fun. Or if I'm in my Hulk using T2 crystals with Mining Forman 5 I'm cutting 3 cans an hour +, or 81km3+ an hour, heh try using just one hauler and going just 2 jumps and see if you can keep up. Mining ships now can way out mine current hauler capacities. With my Alt, Mining Forman 5, Mining Director 5, Laser Optimazation Link running and a Mining Forman Mind Link and Rag here in his hulk with T2 Strip miners, T2 crystals and 2 Mining Laser Upgrades I'm close to 5 cans an hour, do the math :) Now that they have enhanced mining they need to do something to enhance the hauling aspect.

Just my two cents worth, take it or leave it :)

ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2006.11.09 04:11:00 - [22]
 

It would be nice if we could get a GM or Dev opinion on this. If they dont think that one is needed i would like to see thier logic

rancmeat
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:46:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: James Lyrus
I just want a jumpdrive freighter.


Indeed that would be sweet :)

Rafein
Posted - 2006.11.16 10:52:00 - [24]
 

Just give everyone a 50,000m Transport at Transport level 5.

Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.11.16 11:50:00 - [25]
 

No.

Freighters are great, but they have some essential drawbacks that smaller industrials do not have:

no slots, slowness, not agile, vulnerable, require high skills and cannot load or unload anywhere but inside stations.

Unless an intermediate transport gets the same drawbacks it should never get introduced. Flying an industrila is something you do individually, flying a freighter is something you do as a group. That's the main distinction that's important. Frieghters require organisation, and even then are not able to replace good old industrials at the most menial tasks. the result of that is that logistics remain soomething that requires work and thought, rather then being a question of loading up a million m3 of stuff in spot X and unloading it anywhere you want after transporting it solo in one ship.

It's not about making your game easier, it's about filling roles that add gameplay value. Frieghters add the possibility to trade of freedom and functionality for the ability to shift large loads at once. Without the limitations, all that would remain is frieghters making Eve easier, and if Eve does not need one thing it is being made even easier.

Old Geeza
The Retirement Home
Posted - 2006.11.16 11:55:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Rod Blaine
No.

Freighters are great, but they have some essential drawbacks that smaller industrials do not have:

no slots, slowness, not agile, vulnerable, require high skills and cannot load or unload anywhere but inside stations.

Unless an intermediate transport gets the same drawbacks it should never get introduced.


I'll agree with that - introduce Mini Freighters (using the Freighters skill) with half the build costs and half the storage capacity that can only load up in a station.

Latex Mistress
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2006.11.16 12:05:00 - [27]
 

I think the capacity you cite for Indies is a bit off... Put 5 locals on an Itty 5 and you'll see more than 15000m3.

Not that I have any hauling experience or anything... Embarassed


Daos Leghki
Paxton Industries
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2006.11.16 14:09:00 - [28]
 

I am in two minds about this. First, I would love to personally have a mini-freighter, as it would make my life easier. However, I think that if everyone got it, it would really remove the need for industrials. The reason that freighters are so difficult to use is because transport SHOULD be difficult. As Rod Blaine said, it's not about being able to load a BS into your cargo and haul it somewhere, it's about logistics. If you want something moved, pay them for it.

Notably, I do think that haulers are underapprecited in game, and the hauling rates are ridiculously low.

Audri Fisher
Caldari
Burning Bush Enterprises
Posted - 2006.11.16 16:45:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Rod Blaine
No.

Freighters are great, but they have some essential drawbacks that smaller industrials do not have:

no slots, slowness, not agile, vulnerable, require high skills and cannot load or unload anywhere but inside stations.

Unless an intermediate transport gets the same drawbacks it should never get introduced. Flying an industrila is something you do individually, flying a freighter is something you do as a group. That's the main distinction that's important. Frieghters require organisation, and even then are not able to replace good old industrials at the most menial tasks. the result of that is that logistics remain soomething that requires work and thought, rather then being a question of loading up a million m3 of stuff in spot X and unloading it anywhere you want after transporting it solo in one ship.

It's not about making your game easier, it's about filling roles that add gameplay value. Frieghters add the possibility to trade of freedom and functionality for the ability to shift large loads at once. Without the limitations, all that would remain is frieghters making Eve easier, and if Eve does not need one thing it is being made even easier.



Flying an industrail alone is asking to get popped. it is not a solo activity. Since having mid size ship classes is eve in easy mode, BoB is not allowed to fly anying but frigates and dreads from now on!


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only