open All Channels
seplocked Features and Ideas Discussion
blankseplocked Fast training character suggestion
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 [2] 3

Author Topic

Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
Posted - 2006.10.13 09:45:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Dutarro
how else can you level the playing field in a PvP game?


Specialise?

Smart Bomb
Caldari
Wayfarer Stellar Initiative
Posted - 2006.10.13 09:58:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Smart Bomb on 13/10/2006 09:59:52
Edited by: Smart Bomb on 13/10/2006 09:59:31
Originally by: Dutarro

It's interesting that you did not follow the proposal to its logical conclusion.. training at 4x speed = 1 year lifetime, 2x speed = 2 year lifetime, so why not 1x speed = 4 year lifetime? There are no actual 4 year old characters yet, as far as I know, so there's no issue of applying the rule retroactively.



Out of the hundreds of Posts and suggestions Ive read over the years this is by far the most Illogical, retarted, phycotic thing I have ever heard period. Please concord lock him up and fire the key into the nearest sun. Evil or Very MadShockedEmbarassed


Sythelis
Posted - 2006.10.13 11:02:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Dutarro

It's interesting that you did not follow the proposal to its logical conclusion.. training at 4x speed = 1 year lifetime, 2x speed = 2 year lifetime, so why not 1x speed = 4 year lifetime? There are no actual 4 year old characters yet, as far as I know, so there's no issue of applying the rule retroactively.


Wow, this is ******ed... oh, so is new servers, nerfing ecm, faster training, and everyhting else that would ruin the game from what it is suppossed to be, wait int he game like others did, and if you dont like it... go play Redemption Online.

Sythelis
Posted - 2006.10.13 13:26:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Darksaber64x
Originally by: Dutarro
Sure, we want all players to be happy and losing your character is not a happy thing, but how else can you level the playing field in a PvP game?


By getting friends, a brain, knowledge, and ACTUAL skill.


I like you.

Hypo Psycho
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2006.10.13 16:45:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Hypo Psycho on 13/10/2006 20:38:51
i have been reading pilots replies and it seems they are against the idea of faster skill training as much as i am.
i tried to come up with some suggestions to help both sides but if pilots are happy with the way it is then it should be left alone.


Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2006.10.13 22:44:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Hypo Psycho
i cam e up with an idea whilst i was at work (yes we were very busy Very Happy)
ok here it is how about a one off payment for ALL EvE pilots for the sum of $10? $20? $30? for a set of +20? +30? +40? implants, these implants would only last 1mth? 2mths? 3mths? (dont know about stats tweaking or payment)

this then gives the new player the option of having a fast skill train for a limited period (they can get into cruiser battleshipo etc)as well as giving the veterans the option of boosting there training time (finishing of those lvl5 skills last part of training for dread etc)

these implants can only be purchased ONCE andf ONCE only

hopefully it will be cheap enough so everybody could afford to do it.
I'm opposed to anything that gives ANY sort of advantage to someone based on their ability to pay. We can make a very simple game that way...we all just post on the forums how much we earn a year, and whoever has the most wins.

I said simple, not fun.

Dutarro
Matari Munitions
The Fendahlian Collective
Posted - 2006.10.13 22:48:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Dutarro on 13/10/2006 22:48:29
Edited by: Dutarro on 13/10/2006 22:48:19
Originally by: Smart Bomb
Out of the hundreds of Posts and suggestions Ive read over the years this is by far the most Illogical, retarted, phycotic thing I have ever heard period. Please concord lock him up and fire the key into the nearest sun.



Originally by: Sythelis
Wow, this is ******ed... oh, so is new servers, nerfing ecm, faster training, and everyhting else that would ruin the game from what it is suppossed to be, wait int he game like others did, and if you dont like it... go play Redemption Online.


Amazing, so much passion and so little reasoning. I would try to debate you two but there's really nothing there to debate.



Deadman Warping
Posted - 2006.10.13 23:05:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Dutarro
You object to a 'limitation sprung on you with no balancing benefit'. By this criterion, any rules change which takes some advantage away from the vets must give them back a comparable advantage elsewhere. Overall, any such change would keep the same balance of power between old and new players.
No, not really. You are trying to balance this "old vs new" player situation by making the same mistake that people make when balancing different weapons systems - that "balanced" is the same as "equal". It doesn't have to be.

Is it really the case that no-one can play EVE unless they have the same amount of skill points as Dr. Caymus? Obviously the answer is no...I have 10 million less than him on my main, but I guess by a new player's standards, they'd be quite happy to have my skill points. So the real question is...how many SP is enough? 10 million? 20 million? It's been mentioned before that specialisation is the key...stick rigidly to what you want to train. And advice like that simply wasn't available when I started playing, which means that is an advantage that us vets can pass on to the new players. Should we in turn be allowed a system where we can re-assign skill points from non-core skills to ones that are more useful? That is OUR disadvantage compared to the new players: our initial fumblings with the skill system compared to today where you can download EVEMON and prepare all your training in detail with no wasted time (it even calculates the best order to train learning skills!).

This is the same argument you get with young vs old in life...it's wisdom vs youth, patience vs exuberance. And there's a similar solution to be had in EVE too...instead of whining about us "old gits", why not get to know one? Swallow your pride, ride on the coat tails of a vet for a while, and get them to tell you the tricks of the trade...how to fit your ship, how to kill Rachen Mysuna, where the best trade runs are, that kind of thing.

You might even have FUN doing it Shocked

Dirtball
PinK Tac0 ReasearcH
Posted - 2006.10.13 23:17:00 - [39]
 

Just give all the new players full learning skills and advanced to lvl 4.

That way they dont have to spend the first 6 months fartin around and can get straight to flying ships and killing peeps.

Deadman Warping
Posted - 2006.10.13 23:27:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Dirtball
Just give all the new players full learning skills and advanced to lvl 4.

That way they dont have to spend the first 6 months fartin around and can get straight to flying ships and killing peeps.
This is exactly the kind of thing that bugs me.

I'm an old veteran player. For the first year and a half of playing, the advanced learning skills didn't even EXIST...so why now should everyone be given them for free? Sure, let's just give everyone who starts tomorrow their own Titan as well while we're at it...Rolling Eyes

And yes, I know, that's not what you're asking for...but it's getting close to it. You want something that everyone else had to WORK for to be just GIVEN to you. This time it's just the learning skills. If EVE is still going in five years time, is that going to be enough? Maybe then people WILL be asking to be "just given" some ships skills.


Deadman Warping
Posted - 2006.10.13 23:32:00 - [41]
 

I'm starting to see the problem. The problem is that I just don't think like the people who are asking for this "boost". It strikes me (and I apologise if I am wrong) that they are the same type of people who go out to buy a new game, and download all the cheat codes for it from the internet BEFORE THEY HAVE EVEN PLAYED IT.

I don't think like that and I never have. I like to work at things, and then when I succeed, that success is so much the sweeter. I can't think like the people who want everything just given to them right now, and therefore I can't empathise with what you are asking. If that comes across as me being rude, again, I apologise.

Xaen
Caldari
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2006.10.14 00:12:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Deadman Warping
I have seen many threads complaining that new players have no chance to catch up with the older ones. As one of the older players, I must admit I am not keen for all these Johnny-come-latelys to have a quick and easy route to a high-skilled character - ESPECIALLY as none of the suggestions I have seen suggest any penalty for doing so...so I thought of an idea that would allow a "quick train" character, but that would also require some sacrifice in return,

1. At character creation, players can take the option of training at 1x, 2x or 4x speed.
2. If they take the 2x option, they suffer "burnout" and die after two years, if they take the 4x option, they die after one year.
3. If they train at normal speed they live forever as currently.

Gives new players a "quick route" if they choose it, knowing that that character will only be temporary.

No, I would not want to see ANY method for extending this lifespan, and that includes going back to training at 1x to save it's life...you make the choice, you live with the consequence.

However, a range of "short burn" implants for these characters might be required...the relative boost of a +5 implant on a 4x character would not give them the same benefit as on a 1x character...maybe need soemthing like a "+20" implant that only a 4x character could fit.

I suggest this, but I don't think new characters will go for it, as they seem to want all the benefits without any penalties. I'd love to be proved wrong...

As the OP of one of the threads asking for faster training I think your idea - quite frankly - sucks.

I don't want a character that trains fast, then just keels over. Would you throw away your main? I don't think so.

Sorry, not interested.

And no I don't want something for nothing, I just don't think having heard of the game sooner should give you an insurmountable advantage. In fact I don't really care about what your character can do, I just want to be able to do cool stuff sooner. Hell, what if they gave everybody the option of paying $15 more for 2x training speed? You could do it too...but no, that would level the playing field, and you don't want that.

I even suggested paying $15 for each month's worth of training time, but I guess that wasn't a sufficient "penalty" for you. Even thought would mean I paid just as much to get where I am as you.

No, what you really want is to keep your advantage forever.

Xaen
Caldari
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2006.10.14 00:20:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Deadman Warping
You want something that everyone else had to WORK for to be just GIVEN to you.

You didn't "work" for them any more than I worked for the 6 months of skills I have. You just waited around like I have been. If there were actually a way for work to result in faster training of skills I'd do it, but there isn't.

I already have a head full of +4 implants. What's left? Train learning skills from IV to V and then do the advanced ones? Oh.......more waiting...

And right now I don't have a single skill planned where training more learning skills would actually speed things up. Training them right now would actually slow me down.

You just want to maintain your advantage. You're not fooling anyone.

Come up with a solution to the problem that doesn't require that the characters DIE and I'll hear you out.

Dutarro
Matari Munitions
The Fendahlian Collective
Posted - 2006.10.14 02:13:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Deadman Warping
...This is the same argument you get with young vs old in life...it's wisdom vs youth, patience vs exuberance. And there's a similar solution to be had in EVE too...instead of whining about us "old gits", why not get to know one? Swallow your pride, ride on the coat tails of a vet for a while, and get them to tell you the tricks of the trade...how to fit your ship, how to kill Rachen Mysuna, where the best trade runs are, that kind of thing...Shocked


That is good advice, and in fact I do have vet friends in the game. Honestly, if more vet players had the mature attitude you're describing, there would be no reason to object to their power. But sadly, there are too many vet players who use their power not to guide new players but to gank them. One particular alliance comes to mind for whom very old, high-SP characters are a cornerstone of its power, which owns a huge number of tech 2 BPOs (because they were there when BPOs were still being seeded), and which uses all that wealth and power to crush small alliances, pirate in low sec, and generally make the rest of the universe miserable. These are the people that need to be nerfed.



Altomo
Posted - 2006.10.14 04:44:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Dutarro
That is good advice, and in fact I do have vet friends in the game. Honestly, if more vet players had the mature attitude you're describing, there would be no reason to object to their power. But sadly, there are too many vet players who use their power not to guide new players but to gank them.
From your mouth to God's ears. The comparison between the vet/newb relationship and the old man/young man relationship is so flawed it isn't even funny. Playing a video game for three years doesn't get you a grizzled beard and a sage outlook on life. Many of the "old gits" in EvE are sixteen-year-old Quake kiddies who get tiny little chubbies every time they dust a rookie's mission-running Vexor and quietly think, "Boom! Headshot!" every time they score a wrecking blow. Screw those jerks.

Al At'ar
Amarr
Fate Corporation
Etherial Technologies Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.14 05:00:00 - [46]
 

"And no I don't want something for nothing, I just don't think having heard of the game sooner should give you an insurmountable advantage. In fact I don't really care about what your character can do, I just want to be able to do cool stuff sooner."

This is all about self gratification. Cheat codes aside, it's the young kid "I want it now mentality". I started playing EVE off the CD, which you can't get anymore. My first acct lasted From May of '03 to Nov. '03 and I returned in Nov. of '04 with first 1 then 2 and now 3 accts. I learned the hard way what skills to train without wasting time and I put that knowledge to use my second time around. My Corp mates aided everyone to get what they wanted and we have given millions away to newbies just so they can have fun.
Sorry to be the old man but, if you're not willing to work for it then you can't have the "cool stuff".

Reggie Stoneloader
Poofdinkles
Posted - 2006.10.14 07:55:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Al At'ar
This is all about self gratification. Cheat codes aside, it's the young kid "I want it now mentality".
It's more like the "I want it within three months" mentality, or in some cases "I want it within a year".
Quote:
I started playing EVE off the CD, which you can't get anymore...
Congratulations, you have been playing EvE for a long time. The sanctity of your childish sense of entitlement should not be more important than the quality of the game, and the game suffers because it has, for the most part, moved beyond T1 frigates and cruisers. The things you did when you were two months into the game can no longer be done with the same degree of success and pleasure that you enjoyed.
Quote:
Sorry to be the old man but, if you're not willing to work for it then you can't have the "cool stuff".
It's not work, it's seniority, and it's already gotten you enough. The newbies aren't going to be challenging you if they train twice as fast, or three times as fast. They'll just be gaining access to the content of the game. Veteran players always think that it's some kind of scheme to topple them, or to challenge their venerated status. It's not. It's an attempt to get the now-common content unlocked for the general game population. You guys can duke it out over officer mods and T2 BPOs and capital ships and POS warfare. We realize that such high-end content is reserved for the old-schoolers who remember the little blue radar thingy in the lower right corner.

But T2 frigates, cruisers and weapons are no longer high-end content. They're involved in almost every conflict, whether it's solo belt piracy in a Taranis or an empire grief war where one side flies Rooks and Vagabonds against the victim's Kestrels and Vexors. These things are not rare jewels to aspire to, they are the standard equipment of PvP.

If EvE really is meant to be a PvP game, then it should be possible to get into PvP as something other than either a victim or a ganker. SP is the big boundary between characters, not setup or tactics. EvE is unique among MMO games, in my experience, in that the learning curve exceeds a year. I can't think of another game where year-old characters are mediocre, where twelve months of constant self-improvement makes you nothing special.

Let players max out their racial combat skills within six months, if they specialize. let them all be brought up to an equal level, and then let combat be decided by numbers, preparation, strategy and infrastructure.

Hypo Psycho
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2006.10.14 10:44:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Hypo Psycho on 14/10/2006 14:24:58
Edited by: Hypo Psycho on 14/10/2006 14:23:45
Edited by: Hypo Psycho on 14/10/2006 14:23:09
Originally by: Grey Area
Originally by: Hypo Psycho
i cam e up with an idea whilst i was at work (yes we were very busy Very Happy)
ok here it is how about a one off payment for ALL EvE pilots for the sum of $10? $20? $30? for a set of +20? +30? +40? implants, these implants would only last 1mth? 2mths? 3mths? (dont know about stats tweaking or payment)

this then gives the new player the option of having a fast skill train for a limited period (they can get into cruiser battleshipo etc)as well as giving the veterans the option of boosting there training time (finishing of those lvl5 skills last part of training for dread etc)

these implants can only be purchased ONCE andf ONCE only

hopefully it will be cheap enough so everybody could afford to do it.
I'm opposed to anything that gives ANY sort of advantage to someone based on their ability to pay. We can make a very simple game that way...we all just post on the forums how much we earn a year, and whoever has the most wins.

I said simple, not fun.



read my post properly next time grey area Rolling Eyes
it clearly says this will be a ONE time only thing so you buy the implants ONCE you only get the implants ONCE and it only costs you money ONCE, maybe i should have made it clearer as it seems you lack basic reading skills.Rolling Eyes
so it doesnt matter if you make hundreds, thousands or millions you all have the same advantage.
you pay $18? to own an EVE account and you couldnt afford to save a little to buy these implants for $10????Rolling Eyes

but like i have said earlier "DROP IT", why should the noobs get a faster training time?, do you want a free ship aswell? Mad

get out there and train your skills, alot of skills involved with flying a ship are exactly that, "FLYING IT".


Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2006.10.14 13:27:00 - [49]
 

A) Many veterans are 'childish', simply because they are accounts that have been bought on EBay or in-game by the other group of 'give me now' kiddies using their parents money because they didn't want to have to go through what everyone else has.

B) Your reasoning for 'leveling the playing field' is wrong, in my opinion, on one basic level. Eve is NOT FAIR. It is not meant to be. It is not meant to make things equal or easier for anyone. There is some balance in game mechanics, but it doesn't mean it extends to character creation.

C) I am a year old. I've done my share of profession hoping until a bought a new account. I started just like anyone here, not knowing a darn thing and wondering what to do next. I guess my take is this ... if I had to go through it, so should you!

What makes you special? What makes you deserve preferential treatment over those who came one month before you? What have you done that makes you more deserving of things that everyone else has had to deal with?

Truth is, nothing. Nothing at all. You just want it cheaper, easier, faster ... for free. You want to be given a boost, a hand up, so you can 'catch up to the rest.' But in one months time, you will already be passing everyone who started two months ago. Make the addition from there.

I say, bullsh-t. If that was inacted, I'd leave. Very simply put. Do your part, enjoy your game, work for your isk and WAIT LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. What is so fricking hard about that?

Don't like it? You can leave yourself ...

sb404
Caldari
Fluffy Rabbit Killers
Privateer Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.14 15:08:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Ruze
A) Many veterans are 'childish', simply because they are accounts that have been bought on EBay or in-game by the other group of 'give me now' kiddies using their parents money because they didn't want to have to go through what everyone else has.

B) Your reasoning for 'leveling the playing field' is wrong, in my opinion, on one basic level. Eve is NOT FAIR. It is not meant to be. It is not meant to make things equal or easier for anyone. There is some balance in game mechanics, but it doesn't mean it extends to character creation.

C) I am a year old. I've done my share of profession hoping until a bought a new account. I started just like anyone here, not knowing a darn thing and wondering what to do next. I guess my take is this ... if I had to go through it, so should you!

What makes you special? What makes you deserve preferential treatment over those who came one month before you? What have you done that makes you more deserving of things that everyone else has had to deal with?

Truth is, nothing. Nothing at all. You just want it cheaper, easier, faster ... for free. You want to be given a boost, a hand up, so you can 'catch up to the rest.' But in one months time, you will already be passing everyone who started two months ago. Make the addition from there.

I say, bullsh-t. If that was inacted, I'd leave. Very simply put. Do your part, enjoy your game, work for your isk and WAIT LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. What is so fricking hard about that?

Don't like it? You can leave yourself ...


QFT.

Can I get an amen?


Xaen
Caldari
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2006.10.14 17:51:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Ruze
Truth is, nothing. Nothing at all. You just want it cheaper, easier, faster ... for free.

Did you even read any of my posts?

I don't want to be able to train faster for free. And I don't want it cheaper or easier at all. I'm willing to do something (that you could do too - and gain the same advantages), but no, you can't acknowledge that because then it would make the all the vets against doing something for the newbies all the more like the childish megalomaniacs that they are.

What I'm not trying to do is gain an advantage over the vets. For all I care they can have all the advantages of a newbie even on their antideluvian mains.

What I am trying to do is gain access to high end content more quickly by either paying more to play the game, or devoting some sort of in game effort to the endeavor (that the vets could do too). But none of them are willing to see that because they're all a bunch of childish "I-was-here-first-I-get-cool-stuff-and-you-don't. Nanna-nanna-boo-boo." elitists.

I'm willing to put more effort, more money or something in to the game to get there faster, but you can't even acknowledge that fact. You just decide that my goals are different than what they really are then argue against your own delusions as though they're what I want.

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2006.10.14 20:54:00 - [52]
 

Are you so lost on patience that you can't go through what EVERYONE else has already gone through? It's a b-tch, I know. We all know. Waiting someone ungodly time for your learning skills to get done so that you can start something worthwhile. I'm currently going for T2 weaponry, and it's a pain.

But what I LOVE about Eve is that, no matter what you do, you can't be better simply because you pay money. Sure, it sucks when I have to wait, but after a year of hard training I know there's nothing that anyone can say bad about it. Seriously.

Put the money into another character. Buy yourself a few extra meals. Spend it on your significant other. But PAYING to advance in a video game is right next to paying for in-game money. It's silly, it's counterproductive, and it's cheating.

Most of my comments were offered to those complaining about 'Veteran Superiority', but here's one directed specifically at you: 'No matter how much money you spend, you shouldn't be better than anyone who just pays for one account. You shouldn't learn faster, look better, produce more ... nothing!'

Want a leg-up? Buy another friggin acount. Then you can specialize in different things and move a lot quicker. That's if you got the money to do so. Otherwise, try to enjoy the game. Again, we're all going through it. We understand the complaints. We understand the headaches. But nothing, and I mean NOTHING, makes you special. Nothing except what you do in-game, that is.

Good luck to you, and I hope you find some way to enjoy Eve without destroying the principles it's founded on in the process.

Deadman Warping
Posted - 2006.10.14 23:12:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Deadman Warping on 14/10/2006 23:16:37
Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader
But T2 frigates, cruisers and weapons are no longer high-end content. They're involved in almost every conflict, whether it's solo belt piracy in a Taranis or an empire grief war where one side flies Rooks and Vagabonds against the victim's Kestrels and Vexors. These things are not rare jewels to aspire to, they are the standard equipment of PvP.


So how about a different solution? Areas of space where use of T2 ships or equipment is banned. It means everyone in there is on the same tech level. Make sure there are no bottlenecks in and out of it so that you don't get T2 gatecamps waiting to gank people coming out for the first time in T1 ships, and you have what you want...an areas where people can play and learn the game in T1 equipment, and no "vets" ganking them with their uber T2 setups.

Xaen: I'm sorry, but I just have NO sympathy with your argument. My main is a vet. He has over 50 million skillpoints. I'm training him to fly a Titan, and according to EVEmon, it's going to take me 295 days, assuming I don't get sidetracked by something else I want. I hope you'll agree that it's still a long-ass time - and I really don't care. I want it, so it's worth waiting for. You seem to think that because you want it, you should have it now. And yes, you are prepared to invest either money or effort to get it. Sorry, this is not the game you are looking for. All that EVE asks you to invest is TIME, and that is the reason why it is so successful. It doesn't matter if you earn more than me, or have more free time than me, because one second for me is the same as one second for you. Anything that changes that would damage the special position that EVE holds.

Another point...when you DO get to the vet level, I think you may find it's all not as rosy as you think. Currently, looking at my list of "I want" skills, I don't have a single skill with less than a four day training time. You think you have waiting to do NOW? At least you are looking at a whole wad of skills where it's a matter of minutes until you get to see some improvement...being a vet involves an AWFUL lot of waiting.

Last post on this for a while, as I am finding BOTH sides to be getting stale.

Al At'ar
Amarr
Fate Corporation
Etherial Technologies Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.15 03:04:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Al At''ar on 15/10/2006 03:04:52
Since reason seems to be falling in deaf ears, let's have a refresher course on what EVE is exactly. It's a BUSINESS! It's CCP's BUSINESS!! CCP runs EVE to make REAL money! What a novel idea!!
To show you just how unlikely CCP, or any other company, is going to let new characters skip ahead of the class let's have a simple example any 8th grade educated being should understand.
Last I read EVE had 120,000 subscribers, those are $12 a month paying accounts. Surely we can find 10% of EVE accts belonging to new players under say 6 months old. IF CCP gives a 50% discount to those 10% or 12,000 accts they lose $72,000 per month. It takes a month roughly to train just Battlecruiser 5, one of several long skills needed for a T2 Command ship. If you get to train it in 15 days that is 50% lost revenue to CCP.
CCP would have to be MAD to even entertain this idea, besides you left out one important entity... the accountants at the Bank that makes the loans to buy the server equipment. They have the final say in this matter like it or not. THAT any adult should understand.

Enough said...... Smile

dennyreborn
Posted - 2006.10.15 04:35:00 - [55]
 

look there is a way not to let the noobs catch up to the veterans... but still help the noobs get faster skill training time.
determine a certain SP amount. lets say 10 million SP(call this average or mean or whatever). take 70% of that so in this case 7 million SP. everyone below 7 million SP gets a increased training rate until they hit 7 million SP.

for the veterans this will still allow them to have More SP then newer pilots. For newer pilots this allows them to to get in the game quicker and make a few mistakes early on in skills etc.

before the vets whine like old people about back in my day. I will just point out it is jsut the natural progression of MMPRGs tog et easier for newer players. the reason being it helps newer players get to where they can compeate. besides if all you want to do is hold over newer players how you have 20 mil more SP then them, and would lsoe the abilty to stroke your E-pen15 if you only had a 13 mil SP lead on players i really dont think your that good of a player to begin with.

Reggie Stoneloader
Poofdinkles
Posted - 2006.10.15 06:32:00 - [56]
 

I think that's the key of this discussion. Vet players did indeed have to wait as long or longer in most cases to get skills like Gallente Battleship or Cruise Missiles trained up, but they were doing that in a galaxy that had far fewer players in it, and no T2 ships or mods.

The game is different now. Yes, there was a time when everyone was bonking each other over the head with T1 cruisers, but now there are (made up statistic) as many interceptor pilots in empire space as there were PvP characters in all of EvE in the fall of 2003. Competition is far, far steeper than it used to be, so steep in fact that it is almost impossible for a character to be competitive in PvP combat with under six months of training, unless they're fighting in a tackling role.

The problem is that anything that helps new players get to the real content of the game also serves to boost grief alts. That gets awkward.

This thread has degenerated into an argument about whether the game unfairly shafts new guys, and the main counterargument seems to be coming exclusively from players who don't know what it's like to be a new character. So the whole thing's futile.

Dutarro
Matari Munitions
The Fendahlian Collective
Posted - 2006.10.15 17:46:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Deadman Warping
So how about a different solution? Areas of space where use of T2 ships or equipment is banned. It means everyone in there is on the same tech level. Make sure there are no bottlenecks in and out of it so that you don't get T2 gatecamps waiting to gank people coming out for the first time in T1 ships, and you have what you want...an areas where people can play and learn the game in T1 equipment, and no "vets" ganking them with their uber T2 setups...


This is an interesting proposal, and thanks for adding a new and constructive line of thought to this thread Smile

How about altering your idea just a bit -- don't ban T2 equipment from certain areas, but instead make areas where T2 equipment has no great advantage. The 'tactical environments' we've heard about could be just such a place. For example say there are some tachyon nebulas (or whatever) where a pilot's combat strength mostly depends on a new set of tachyon technology skills. If a HAC and a lowly T1 cruiser engage in the nebula, the T1 guy has a good chance of winning if his skills and ship setup are more specialized for nebula combat.

So the general approach would be, continually add new content areas, along with new skills required for a character to excel in that area. Each time such content is added to the game, new players have a chance to compete equally with experienced players, at least in those new areas. Keys to making it work would be that new skills not depend too heavily on old skills as prerequisites, and that the flow of new content continues indefinitely, so that a new player has a place to compete no matter how late he joins EVE. Who knows, maybe this is exactly what CCP is doing with the new mini-professions.




Xaen
Caldari
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2006.10.15 19:50:00 - [58]
 

I know why things are they way the are now. Before there were T2 ships the full gamut of skills was much smaller, so it was no big deal to get the biggest ship in the 'verse because it was like.....a battleship. But as the game got older they kept adding more and more high end content to keep the old players happy and to give them goals, but the new players were overlooked completely. All the old players - and I imagine - most of the people working at CCP all wanted more high end stuff because they'd done all everything else, so they kept adding and adding and adding to the end-game and had forgotten all the new players.

Nothing new they add to the game now is a big deal to all the vets, a month or two more training and they've got all the new stuff that was just added.

But to a new player it takes a year or more to get there.

It's very frustrating as a fairly new player to see all this cool stuff added to the end game that some players are already flying but there's no force on earth that will get my character in one of those cool new ships inside six freaking months.

Can't you see? Every time they add something new for the vets it's a short period of time before they can start using it, but it is just a few more months FARTHER out of reach of the new players.

It's very frustrating...you don't get it because you're already in the carriers, dreadnoughts etc. you aren't seeing stuff you can't have. Stuff no force in the world can get you. No amount of effort, no matter how hard or dedicated to the game you are, you cannot have it any sooner than a year from now. Sure life is like that sometimes, but this is a game, it does not have to be, but it is.

Deadman Warping
Posted - 2006.10.16 08:48:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Xaen
It's very frustrating...you don't get it because you're already in the carriers, dreadnoughts etc. you aren't seeing stuff you can't have.


/me laughs

Another misconception. My main is an old character. The biggest thing he can fly is a Battleship. I'm two weeks away from getting Freighter level 1, and as I said earlier, 295 days away from getting a Titan.

So I DO get it, and I'm NOT in the big ships. Assumption 4tl.

And WHY aren't I in them yet? Simply because I play EVE as part of a small corp. We probably COULD afford to launch a Dreadnought. Once. Using the rule of "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose", it would never leave the hangar. So why am I training for Titan, I hear you ask? Damned if I know. But you got to train for SOMETHING, don'tcha?

ITTigerClawIK
Amarr
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
Posted - 2006.10.16 10:49:00 - [60]
 

tbh i Do belive things are fine the way they are... when i first started EVE i took a look at the Heavy Assault cruiser and i said to myself that there is no way i could ever get that..now after a year i have them assualt frigates and a number of other stuff i never thought id get... if you ask me capitals are pretty much very reachable atm i am trundeling my way slowly towards them while at the same time improveing skills for the ships i can use at the current time. though i have to admit the little temporary train time boosters did get my attention a bit maybe there may be room for them but for now i do belive things are fien the way they are.

thank you CCP for an amazing game and a system that works :)


Pages: 1 [2] 3

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only