open All Channels
seplocked Missions & Complexes
blankseplocked When does bad luck become a bug Papa/Z?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

Morkt Drakt
Caldari
Black Omega Security
Posted - 2003.10.24 02:18:00 - [1]
 

Just wondering at what point "Celestially collosal bad luck" becomes a bug?

Glancing at the ever increasing numbers who are suffering such supposedly astronomical "bad luck"... and thus totally nullifying the veracity of said statment.... can we not get a little bit of reassurance on this matter?

Question



Astrid Tron
Minmatar
Posted - 2003.10.24 07:42:00 - [2]
 

I think that is a most valid question, Morkt, and I am glad that you have the courage to bring it up.

However, I am more concerned with the issue of 'whining' and the other vira that seems to be spread around through intensive gaming. 'Whining', and also 'b1tzhing', seem to infect those players that are already challenged by 'gimme-gimme-gimme', 'mefirstnownotlater-itis' and 'chronic lack of patience'.

This is an epidemic of galactic proportions, and CCP seem unwilling to do anything about it, and claim ignorance of these grave threats to the mentally challenged. Do something,CCP!!!

Morkt Drakt
Caldari
Black Omega Security
Posted - 2003.10.24 12:42:00 - [3]
 

Very droll (not) and totally pointless post Astrid.

Players are concerned rightly they have been or are wasting their time due to either bugs or "hidden" conditions that add nothing to gaming experience but can seriously detract from it.

Do you think its fun and amusing to do over 500 missions only to discover that agent gives neither implants nor BP missions?


Ring
Caldari
Posted - 2003.10.24 12:51:00 - [4]
 

If you dont have a bp or implants by 350 surly something is wrongNeutralQuestion

Astrid Tron
Minmatar
Posted - 2003.10.24 13:50:00 - [5]
 

I actually thought u were kidding, Morkt :)

But to be serious, I do agree that there is nothing more frustrating in a game, than not being able to make an informed and meaningful choice. I will agree on that at any time. I am, though, tired of people nagging about not 'getting their stuff right now'.

Nafres Maelstrom
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2003.10.24 15:11:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Nafres Maelstrom on 24/10/2003 15:12:58
something is definately bjorked after the dbaser update.i have max standings and agent/corp etc and cant get a level 3 referal to save my ass.

and to say collosal bad luck.........is pretty lame at best.

give us a dam update

Morkt Drakt
Caldari
Black Omega Security
Posted - 2003.10.24 17:01:00 - [7]
 

"Celestially COllosal bad luck" x 1 - mebbe

x 7, 8 9 and rising....

doesnt sound so "celestially collosal" to me.

C'mon DEVS throw us a frikkin bone here...


Kralizec
Dallas Company
Posted - 2003.10.24 18:59:00 - [8]
 

Up to 491 agent missions without a bp here. This is a caldari agent so should give a shield boost amp bp.

Ryes Ammal
Caldari
Posted - 2003.10.24 19:11:00 - [9]
 

Morkt, I doubt the Devs are reading any of these posts. Only Z is checking here and he is likely just interested in explaining how the "new" agent system will work.

Morkt Drakt
Caldari
Black Omega Security
Posted - 2003.10.24 19:30:00 - [10]
 

Quote:
Morkt, I doubt the Devs are reading any of these posts. Only Z is checking here and he is likely just interested in explaining how the "new" agent system will work.


They read them - at least papa used to at one point...whether or not they comment is another matter.



Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2003.10.24 20:16:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 24/10/2003 20:26:55
344 here.

I've got social skill lvl5 and a charisma of 20, make these matter where it truly matters and introduce more charisma based skills so people dedicated to NPC interaction, like the agent missions, stand out and are rewarded for it.

Now give me my cookie! Cool

Morkt Drakt
Caldari
Black Omega Security
Posted - 2003.10.24 21:13:00 - [12]
 

What happened is this:

Somebody had done a lot of missions and they thought "hrmm this seems wrong -e verybody else is getting BPs but not me". SO they filed a petition.

Of course the GMs didnt know the answer sot hey asked the Devs. The Devs said "Well its not a guarenteed thing - its a %chance per missions after X succesful missions, os, theoretically, if you are really unlucky it could still take you 550 missions to get the BP"

So the GM goes back and says:

"No it works fine you are jsut celestially collosally unlucky".

And because that is a meme they keep on saying it because they believe it.

Meanwhile, back at Dev-HQ, the devs didnt actually check the code, because they *know* how its supposed to work and they've only had notice/questions from one Dev...

And so the vicious cycle goes until until,e ventually, someboyd either checks that the "fail % roll" flag is permanetly set to "fail" (or whatever) or the same GM ends up with multiple petitions and starts to think, as we are doing:

"Hmm, well, that doesnt seem so much like bad luck anymore as infectiously bad luck thats starting to breed."

Rolling EyesWink


Naht
Minmatar
Discordant Provisions
Posted - 2003.10.25 03:19:00 - [13]
 

Certainly there are others with more missions completed than me, but I thought it was time to add myself to the list of players that haven't received a BP mission.

I'm one of the wannabes who jumped on the bandwagon (or treadmill as the case may be) at the first reports of implant missions. So, all of my lvl3 agent missions are post patch.

Social 4 (3->4 ~ mission 75)
Charisma 18 (14->17 ~ mission 35 & 17->18 ~ mission 100)

I just crossed the 300 mission threshold for the ungrateful Sakkanaka Haakkigo (Lvl3, Awesome +14%/+10%, Caldari). I've only failed 3 missions.

Any ideas as to what my fortune holds regarding how many more missions I need to do? or have I paid my dues without receiving a proper reward for my diligent service?

Naht
Minmatar
Discordant Provisions
Posted - 2003.10.25 04:19:00 - [14]
 

Assuming that there really is a bug in this situation let me propose the following:

I believe we've been told that characters will only be offered an original BP mission once per agent.

We know that missions expire if we don't accept them and that eventually new missions are offered after this expiration. I'm not talking about rejecting or not completing a mission. I'm talking about seeing an offered mission in your journal that you never even talk to your agent about. If you come back n minutes later you can see that you now are offered a different mission.

So:

Is there a chance that I have completed the number of missions necessary to be elligible for the BP mission, but was then off-line or perhaps afk when it was offered to me?

I'd like to think that the mission code in this case is written in such a way that I can only accept the BP mission once rather than it can only be offered to me once.

Or does this not make sense and I'm I way off base?

Luther Pendragon
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.10.25 08:50:00 - [15]
 

Well, there was one guy who said he could predict accurately when someone would get a BP. Oh wait, that person was Morkt Laughing

Morkt Drakt
Caldari
Black Omega Security
Posted - 2003.10.25 16:43:00 - [16]
 

Quote:
Well, there was one guy who said he could predict accurately when someone would get a BP. Oh wait, that person was Morkt Laughing


Still works too... and its reasonably accurate.

Thats half my point - those who have received the BP mission have done so as predicted (including myself).

Those who havent, seemed doomed to an eternity of frustration, hence my belief that if you fail the roll first time you will never get it (flag stays firmly at "no")


Ryes Ammal
Caldari
Posted - 2003.10.25 18:16:00 - [17]
 

I don't think the "missions offered while offline" is the explanation.

The reason being is that you don't "appear" to be offered a new mission until you actually talk to the agent. Note that there are three steps: 1) Talk to agent, 2) Ask for mission, 3) Accept/Decline mission. The offered mission data appears AFTER #1 but before #2. So, if you haven't done #1 yet it shouldn't matter whether you are offline or not. Also, when I have done #1 I always check to see what the offer will be. I never saw the BP mission and I still haven't gotten a BP.

P.S. I know that "different races" hypothesis is NOT the explanation, because my agent (who refuses to cough up a BP) is the exact same race as my main.

Ryes Ammal
Caldari
Posted - 2003.10.25 18:21:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Ryes Ammal on 25/10/2003 18:28:00

NEW hypothesis for failure below. Please confirm or dispute. How about if...

You started doing missions, post implant, for a particular L3 agent. Suppose that flipped some counter flag watching to see when you'd get sufficient missions accumulated to warrant a BP from THAT particular agent. Shortly thereafter you decided to switch to a different L3 agent (i.e., one that drops the BP you really want). Well, perhaps you are already "keyed" into the first L3 agent and you could do all the missions in eternity for the second L3 to no avail. Could that be what is happening?

I am proposing this for three reasons: 1) It fits my circumstances. 2) It seems increasingly clear that no one has been able to get two BPs from DIFFERENT agents despite a Dev assertion somewhere along the line that they were 1 per agent. 3) Assume individual agents are bugged instead: By now I would assume someone would be reporting success with the second L3 agent they tried. In other words, success to someone who did 300+ missions for at least two agents.

Increasingly I am thinking that the player is somehow bugged... and will never get a BP no matter how many missions or agents they try. This would be one way to "bug" a player.

Morkt Drakt
Caldari
Black Omega Security
Posted - 2003.10.25 18:41:00 - [19]
 

nah.

I've swapped agents for caldari and received the BP mission.

Minmatar i've only ever had one level 3 and its a no-show on the BP mission.

I still favour the "failed the roll and permanently bugged" option, its the msot likely as far as i can see and explains why there is no rhyme or reason tot he failure but why my predictions are, in all other instances, accurate.




Ryes Ammal
Caldari
Posted - 2003.10.25 20:26:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Ryes Ammal on 25/10/2003 20:32:23

Actually there is a problem with the simple "failed roll" hypothesis too. A simple failed roll would have a constant percentage of failed players. Bit we are clearly seeing an increasing and accelerating percentage of failed players over time. This accelerating trend seems greater than any increase in reports that would be expected from simply having more players come up to speed.

I think that once an Agent fails... that agent is broken. I started a thread about this before and found no one who could provide an example of an agent who failed one person and then worked for anyone else after that.

Rnmeksuvsur (at Vakir) comes to mind. I knew he would prove broken when I was only at 220 missions, because another person had already reported him broken for them. Voila, I didn't get a BP drop from him either. And at 325+ missions (and counting) I don't have any expectations of him ever doing so.

In other words, the whole agent BP thing is slowly grinding to a halt. Eventually no one will be getting BPs. Of course the new system will likely be in place before this occurs.

loladoll
Gallente
Flower house
Posted - 2003.10.25 21:42:00 - [21]
 

or, an agent only gives 1 blueprint. the first to fullfill the necessary amount of missions get the BP, all others get nothing.
fits the simple programming error : forget to reset the variable after BP, or there is only a global variable for an agent (and not different ones for each agent/player combination) (its the kind of mistakes a sometimes make - after not sleeping for days)Crying or Very sad

loladoll
Gallente
Flower house
Posted - 2003.10.25 21:43:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: loladoll on 25/10/2003 21:46:05
oops, accidental double post (not a programming error, just human mistake Wink)

Ryes Ammal
Caldari
Posted - 2003.10.26 00:34:00 - [23]
 

I thought that folks might be interested in an update of my petition regarding broken BP missions. I petitioned:

Quote:
I've done 325+ missions for Rnmeksuvsur Lanikur, L3, Vakir and never received a BP mission. This is almost certainly a true program bug which needs to be brought to the Devs attention. We know it is not mere "bad luck" because: 1) There is no gradual trailing off of mission counts for successful players. No one has gotten a single BP after 350+ missions. Some folks have done 500+ missions trying to prove the "bad luck" explanation, but still not a single BP. The way it is working is this: either you get the BP before 350, or you don't get a BP at all. 2) If you read the mission forums you will see that more and more folks (15-20 players have already reported this) are in the failure camp. These folks need to be compensated for a failure in the code. Please submit this petition to a Dev for resolution.


The response was:

Quote:
Hi. As the agent missions are bit random, you can expect to have to do a few more missions, if the agent won't give you a BP before you've done 400 missions, please let us know. Best regards, GM Aeryn
.

My response was:

Quote:
I would gladly do 75 more missions (about 25 hours work), if I was assured of getting a BP somewhere along the line. However, I already know of other people who have done 400+ missions for this same agent with no BP. I can't see doing this much more work for something that is probably broken anyway. Can I get an assurance that a GM will give me a BP if my agent fails to provide the BP mission by 400?


Naht
Minmatar
Discordant Provisions
Posted - 2003.10.26 02:24:00 - [24]
 

Ryes Ammal:
Quote:
I don't think the "missions offered while offline" is the explanation.

Also, when I have done #1 I always check to see what the offer will be. I never saw the BP mission and I still haven't gotten a BP.


Ah, good that's exactly the situation that I was describing and, you were more cautious than I'd been in the past. Glad to hear my theory refuted as I didn't check my offered missions as diligently.

Quote:
Shortly thereafter you decided to switch to a different L3 agent (i.e., one that drops the BP you really want).


I've only worked for one Lvl 3 agent and I have the same problem.

I guess it's time to submit a petitions as well...

Xtra Bitter
hirr
Posted - 2003.10.26 07:59:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Xtra Bitter on 26/10/2003 08:16:47
Quote:
I've done 325+ missions for Rnmeksuvsur Lanikur, L3, Vakir and never received a BP mission. This is almost certainly a true program bug which needs to be brought to the Devs attention. We know it is not mere "bad luck" because: 1) There is no gradual trailing off of mission counts for successful players. No one has gotten a single BP after 350+ missions. Some folks have done 500+ missions trying to prove the "bad luck" explanation, but still not a single BP. The way it is working is this: either you get the BP before 350, or you don't get a BP at all. 2) If you read the mission forums you will see that more and more folks (15-20 players have already reported this) are in the failure camp. These folks need to be compensated for a failure in the code. Please submit this petition to a Dev for resolution.



Ive Completed over 450 misssions for the same agent and ive recieved no referral or BP.




Quote:
Hi. As the agent missions are bit random, you can expect to have to do a few more missions, if the agent won't give you a BP before you've done 400 missions, please let us know. Best regards, GM Aeryn
.

So they consider yours a problem if you get to 400 missions but not mine at 450. To quote from the latest reply ive had.

"Thank you for the additional information. But I am afraid there is not much I can add to the previous answer. How and when the agents refer you to another one or how generous they are is completely random and down to your luck with the individual agent. This means that some players, such as yourself, have to do a considerable amount of missions before getting anywhere while others get of easier. This is not considered a bug in any way. I sympathize with your frustration but we can only advice patience and going on doing missions."



Quote:
I would gladly do 75 more missions (about 25 hours work), if I was assured of getting a BP somewhere along the line. However, I already know of other people who have done 400+ missions for this same agent with no BP. I can't see doing this much more work for something that is probably broken anyway. Can I get an assurance that a GM will give me a BP if my agent fails to provide the BP mission by 400?


See above the only completly random distribution in the world that isnt.

OK my latest reply

Im sorry as i previously stated (and i can/will do the maths if required) the giving of these missions if far from completely random. There is NOT ONE reported incidence of an agent giving a BP mission after mission 325. Also if it was completely random there would be incidences of receiving the BP mission prior to mission 250 this is also not the case. All the people getting the BP mission get it between mission 250 and 325 mostly around mission 280. If you are aware of one person getting the BP mission outside these parameters please let me know otherwise your completely random statement is at best a guess or more likely what should be happening but ISNT.

Morkt Drakt
Caldari
Black Omega Security
Posted - 2003.10.26 14:06:00 - [26]
 

This is what i said would happen.

The GMs now believe memetically that its "all down to luck" and are bascically making up different figures as serves.. as and when each remembers.

They dont talk with the devs on each petition so **** just you being fobbed-off with the "accepted story".

Happens in all MOGs where the GM/Petition system is totally seperated from the Devs.. old story.Rolling Eyes


wamingo
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2003.10.26 14:41:00 - [27]
 

I've done a total of 314 missions for my awesome+16% lvl3 DED agent now, 1 failure... The last 40 missions done with a caldari faction standing of 6.0 and the last 150 over 5.0.
I have not recieved ANYTHING except small and medium ammo, small frequency crystals and cheap rockets for my work.

On top of that, every 2 to 3 missions needs 10 plus jumps out and 10 back to agent, longest trip 34 jumps total... I used to do them all until about 100 missions done, since then I've only occasionally accepted them.

Further more I rarely recieved more than 100k total isk for any job, regardless of distance, 30 jumps or 2 jumps, and most of them are less than 70k isk...


Suffice it to say I feel cheated. I will probably continue till 400, but after that I'm gonna go back to my poor amarr agent whom I did 140 missions for and recieved an ocean of goodies from before the last patch, got tired of her though so stopped before the patch.

Xtra Bitter
hirr
Posted - 2003.10.26 15:57:00 - [28]
 

DED agents are concord faction im afraid which means all they do is increase your standing with all the factions. No Concord faction agents give any other reward.

wamingo
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2003.10.26 16:16:00 - [29]
 

you kidding?
they did not long ago...

Xtra Bitter
hirr
Posted - 2003.10.26 16:30:00 - [30]
 

Unfortunalty not

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=39893

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=40341

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=37695

All seem to confirm this.


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only