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blankseplocked Pointless destruction of Market Place
 
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velox
Gallente
Posted - 2003.10.20 09:34:00 - [1]
 

Recently I have taken to my agent missions like a duck to water and am now running 4 level 3 agents, hopefully onto a road laden with bp's and implants.

That aside my beef is with people who are currently ruining the markets, probably with the illusion that everyone has an I.Q. lower than their's so we will all just go along.

I recently had a mission fairly simple.. 'Please supply 16 units of Consumer Electronics to agent here within three hours'

First thing a quick check of the market, funnily enough someone has purchased all of the units available in Luminare at 230isk a unit and put them back on the market at 70,000 isk.

Now I am all for profit, I believe the Ferengi and their rules on aquisition are to live buy. But seriously who is ever going to pay 70k isk a unit when i can get them 3 jumps away for 230isk each.

This is an extreme example but not the only example most commodities are now on the market in Lum at many times their original price.

I intend to combat this wherever i see it, I picked up 400 units of consumer electronics and will satify my agent and put the rest on the market making the 70k offer dissapear.

For anyone interested in a new market I would head for Luminare, there are plenty of items you could ship in and sell above normal price and well below current system market place.

Come on people if you are one of the guilty ones hoping to pay for your next BS by selling quaffe at 10k a unit, get real.

Well thats it I have exorcised the demons. Shocked
Velox

Hyundai
Posted - 2003.10.20 11:28:00 - [2]
 

buy 1 unit then post there name that should send the mob round

Arthur Eld
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2003.10.20 12:12:00 - [3]
 



There are always jackasses trying to pull idiotic market schemes. Always there are people placing buy orders for battleships for 1 isk and people trying to sell their pyerite for 2.2 billion each. Really. What is the point? All it does is produce market clutter.

Rolling Eyes


Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2003.10.20 12:40:00 - [4]
 

Maybe they could limit the mark up on NPC supplied items to something only mildly rediculous like 500%.

I had to fly an entire region the other day to get holoreels for 10,000 each which is a hell of a lot more then the 253isk they sell from NPC's because the region I was originally in had them all at 10 million each.

Unfortunately failed that mission too as I ran out of time searching for them.

Infinity

Jash Illian
Minmatar
Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.
Posted - 2003.10.20 12:53:00 - [5]
 

Quote:
Maybe they could limit the mark up on NPC supplied items to something only mildly rediculous like 500%.

I had to fly an entire region the other day to get holoreels for 10,000 each which is a hell of a lot more then the 253isk they sell from NPC's because the region I was originally in had them all at 10 million each.

Unfortunately failed that mission too as I ran out of time searching for them.

Infinity


Heimatar. Volumes in the 100ks. We love our **** Twisted Evil

Everything that can be marked up can be bought elsewhere if you know where to look. Just have to find the superconductor supply myself... Wink

StealthNet
Gallente
Posted - 2003.10.20 13:05:00 - [6]
 

Man this is a torture.

Agent missions are the most boring thing to do in eve, and now you have to deal with market griefers that are doing this only because of ppl doing agent missions.

Well, I stopped doing missions since the day I had to buy superconductors at 500K to complete an implant mission.

Someone will say: this is a free market! Yes, I know. The problem is not the market (just 10% :P). But Im here to enjoy playing, and I never saw any enjoyment in doing agent missions. Now, things are even worse. I won't spoil the rest of fun I still have playing EVE doing missions.

Jash Illian
Minmatar
Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.
Posted - 2003.10.20 13:30:00 - [7]
 

Quote:
Man this is a torture.

Agent missions are the most boring thing to do in eve, and now you have to deal with market griefers that are doing this only because of ppl doing agent missions.

Well, I stopped doing missions since the day I had to buy superconductors at 500K to complete an implant mission.

Someone will say: this is a free market! Yes, I know. The problem is not the market (just 10% :P). But Im here to enjoy playing, and I never saw any enjoyment in doing agent missions. Now, things are even worse. I won't spoil the rest of fun I still have playing EVE doing missions.


Oh for the lub of frell...

While doing agent missions I never refused a single mission. That means I did the ones for even overpriced commodities. Why?

Because overall I made 30m-40m isk while doing doing agent missions, both from the agent isk reward and selling the agent item rewards. Nobogy complains that their agent pays them 50k for 333 units of veldspar. Nobody complains they get paid 75k for 2k units of tritanium.

Oh just...just...bah. Not even worth it.

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2003.10.20 13:33:00 - [8]
 

"Nobogy complains that their agent pays them 50k for 333 units of veldspar. Nobody complains they get paid 75k for 2k units of tritanium."

... Apparently not for much longer, though... :s

Jash Illian
Minmatar
Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.
Posted - 2003.10.20 17:12:00 - [9]
 

Quote:
"Nobogy complains that their agent pays them 50k for 333 units of veldspar. Nobody complains they get paid 75k for 2k units of tritanium."

... Apparently not for much longer, though... :s


Pator. Spanking. Now! Twisted Evil

Baldour Ngarr
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2003.10.20 17:33:00 - [10]
 

Quote:
Someone will say: this is a free market! Yes, I know. The problem is not the market ...



what *is* the problem then? I'm confused. If you approve of a totally free market .. .what's the complaint?

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2003.10.20 17:41:00 - [11]
 

I don't force anyone to buy my goods, most of them aren't even found within 6 jumps of their sell location, if you cannot be bothered to fly there and buy it yourself that's your problem, I hardly consider myself a griefer for supplying the market.

Coming unprepared has always earned you a spanking.

Veruna Caseti
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2003.10.20 17:56:00 - [12]
 

Quote:
I hardly consider myself a griefer for supplying the market.


The problem is your supplying the market with something it doesn't need, just to trigger agent missions and force people to either pay your prices or fly an extra 30 jumps to find them cheaper, as if missions didn't already require enough travel.

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2003.10.20 18:02:00 - [13]
 

Wrong, I supply the systems with what goods I was asked to provide myself when I did the missions, bringing a surplus back with me as I went to get the first load, see how that works.

Some people just need to blame everyone else for everything, put out buy orders, take down convoys. Whining in this case when there's such obvious ways around it should be reserved only for the mentally crippled.

Johnsus
Caldari
InGen Corporation
Posted - 2003.10.20 18:10:00 - [14]
 

Those that do not see a problem with marking a 253isk item up to 10bil isk are likely those that are doing this mark-up, or condone the actions because they are too uber to ever need the items.

Greifers is the perfect definition. People that have nothing better to do than purposefully attempt to prevent another from achieving their goals (which honestly shouldn't have a damn thing to do with the perpetrator's game).

They are infants. In mentality. Might be 14 y/o, might be 40. Mentally incompetant children is all they are.

Play on. I'll fly 20 jumps away to get around their stupidity.

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2003.10.20 18:18:00 - [15]
 

10 billion, what are you smoking and whatever black and white movie did you just step out of!??

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2003.10.20 18:29:00 - [16]
 

"Greifers is the perfect definition. People that have nothing better to do than purposefully attempt to prevent another from achieving their goals (which honestly shouldn't have a damn thing to do with the perpetrator's game)."

... The 'griefing' you mention is focused solely on disrupting someone else's activities, and the 'griefer' takes their pleasure from the idea they cause someone else problems.

'Tis not the case; the people who do this sort of commodities trade are in it simply to make the isk, and how it affects you is usually the least of their concerns.

(3 jumps between Jita and Pator... hmm, wonder what's the odds of getting stuck on highway with the new servers :s

Headd
Posted - 2003.10.20 18:36:00 - [17]
 

The market is not the problem. The problem is the low numbers of certain commodities in the market. Holoreels are supposed to be cheap. Polytextiles are supposed to be cheap. In the real world that goes too. In the real world no one could buy all the movies or all the polyester in the world just to drive prices up. Why? cause there's just too much of it. Even if someone managed to, production would just step up and there would be twice as much supply within a short time. Eve just has unrealistically low quantities of low priced products. Not that the market works in real life all the time either though, just pointing out a flaw in some of the arguments above.

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2003.10.20 18:38:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 20/10/2003 18:43:36
Wrong! Read up on de Beers and diamonds, OPEC and oil, medicine and the third world.

Market economy in general is withholding goods in order to get the profit you want, not selling for a reasonable price, that would be danger close to communism, now we can't have that can we?! Wink

Stoli
Posted - 2003.10.20 19:27:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Stoli on 20/10/2003 19:28:35
Quote:
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 20/10/2003 18:43:36
Wrong! Read up on de Beers and diamonds, OPEC and oil, medicine and the third world.

Market economy in general is withholding goods in order to get the profit you want, not selling for a reasonable price, that would be danger close to communism, now we can't have that can we?! Wink


Dante, you've been reading too many globalization conspiracy pamphlets lately! A market economy is the OTHER way around - producing goods or supplying services to meet the demands of others. In a market economy, sitting on your product/service means that someone else will get out there and supply the product/service, and you will be left with a whole lot of useless stock.

Market economics even applies to diamonds and oil. Diamonds - despite what my girlfriend seems to think - are not a necessity. If the prices are too high, no one will buy them, so the market (ie, demand) controls the price. As for oil, OPEC can't get the prices it WANTS (which would be a few hundred dollars a barrel), because it knows two things:

1) other producers will get into the game once the price gets high enough to justify doing things like drilling in the North Sea or the Siberian tundra (which is expensive), increasing the demand outside of OPEC, and forcing the price down;

2) if it stays too high for too long, people will develop alternatives that, for the moment, are too expensive to develop at the current price of oil. This risks having their entire stock being rendered relatively worthless.

As far as this game is concerned, if someone were successfully selling items that cost 230 ISK each at a rate of 70,000 ISK each, and there was a DEMAND for that item at that rate, then the market should very shortly be FLOODED with that item, with each market entrant selling at a rate below the one before him, as long as there was still a profit.

In other words, a player should be able to make a killing by buying up these consumer electronics elsewhere, and bringing them back to the region where someone is trying to sell for 70,000 ISK each. You come back and sell for 5,000 ISK each...either the hoarder has to buy up your stock to keep control of the market, or they have to reduce their entire stock to below 5,000 ISK to compete. Rinse and repeat - you will either make a quick fortune, or very quickly force the price down to a reasonable level.

And THAT, my dear Danton, is how the MARKET works. Very Happy

Johnsus
Caldari
InGen Corporation
Posted - 2003.10.20 19:32:00 - [20]
 

~giggles insanely to himself because j0sephine quoted him~

Actually j0, I do not agree that they are not doing it on purpose, with harmful intent. Why? Because why (unless there is an exploit going on here that not too many are aware of) would someone buy cheap_item01 for 250isk, then turn right around and offer it for sale on the same station for 70000isk? You telling me that some noob is actually going to say "Oh sigh, holoreels are 70k and I need 6... I'd better go mine"? Then they'd actually PAY that much thus making the seller rich?

I don't think it's quite that simple. Rare items, or hard to find items, sure... In fact, my corpmate wanted to buy Anchoring the other day. He tells me "Jesus man, it's 1mil for that skill!" and I'm like, uh, no it isn't. Apparently, some knob polisher bought 3, and put 3 on the market in The Citadel region for 1 MILLION ISK! In the station I was docked, it was the usual 75k.

Tell me, this is profiteering? Or exploiting idiocy? (which by the way I am all for... if someone really pays 1mil for anchoring or 70k for holoreels, they deserve it hehe) All I am saying is, it's intentional... and not to make a profit. But to screw someone else over.

What about the price of mins? I sell 80,000 Mex for 13isk because I cannot find a place to sell for 16, and the **** just keeps re-appearing in my cargo because the exploiter puts a buy order in and doesn't have the cash to cover it? Is that how that works? Real profiteering there too. :)

Totalis Orange
Posted - 2003.10.20 19:40:00 - [21]
 

Simply way to combat this is always check market before accepting the mission. If the price is too high for the said item...don't take the mission.

I mean, the market is the market. Although I suspect that most of people who do this are prfiting mostly from New Players who doesn't know better.

Don't take the mission if you don't agree with the price. That lowers demand.

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2003.10.20 19:43:00 - [22]
 

Really, that doesn't explain why medicine is rather destroyed than sold to the third world, same goes with basic produce such as grain, or de Beers stockpile of diamonds, why isn't everyone else digging them out of the ground and selling them?

As for oil the products you get from it is sold at for some unreasonable prices and I fail so see someone dumping OPECs prices much. It's not like drilling it cost that much, they'd still make a profit selling it for a fraction of what they do, why isn't someone doing that?

Headd
Posted - 2003.10.20 21:07:00 - [23]
 

Dalton, oil and diamonds are rare and limited products, so that works. Cheap holoreels and polytextiles are just too common for it to be feasible for anyone to corner the market.

Kennian
Gallente
Chosen Path
Posted - 2003.10.20 21:42:00 - [24]
 

if you've noticed, the current price of diamonds is dropping.....why?


because debears no longer controls the entireity of the diamond market

there's a HUGE diamond mine in siberea now that's competeing with them directly..

fun eh?

Veruna Caseti
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2003.10.20 21:57:00 - [25]
 

You're all missing the REAL problem here, and the reasonw why this is truly a "grief-like" tactic, and that is the fact that Agent missions are still influenced by Market availability.

Having a commodity on Market greatly increases the likelihood that it will be the object of a "trade" based mission. Since the mission generator doesn't take into account price, only availability - putting a few items up for sale at ridiculous prices triggers this mission for everyone in the region, requiring them to either pay your ridiculous price or fly far out of their way to find another source.

Now, if there was a "real" demand for these items that allowed you to acquire such a price, that's one thing - but all your doing is praying on an artificial demand generated by the simplicity of Agent missions and people's unwillingness to spend their precious time online flying 40 jumps to save themselves some ISK.

Anyone who calls this "smart" or "Supplying a demand" or "good market tactics" is either foolish or desperately trying to justify their exploitation of Agent mission mechanics and people's limited online time.


I have personally spent time supplying regions where this is a particular problem - dropping ridiculous prices by more than half in most cases just so people don't have to fly a year out of their way to pick up a few trade goods to finish a mission.

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2003.10.20 22:49:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 20/10/2003 22:55:46
It is, I hate diamonds and status***** women, drop like a stone! Very Happy

About those markets they're not really cornered, there are places selling about 30k units of them for way more in sum total than any sane person would field for something that replenish so soon. If I haul polytextiles six jumps and mark it up to ten times its value it's on your head buying it for the quick fix instead of making the twelve jump roundtrip.

People just tend to stock up on the goods they need and people actually reselling them catch the flak, I've got no problems with this, if you want to make money go shoot a convoy and sell the goods yourself or start building a warehouse for agent missions...

Veruna Caseti
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2003.10.21 02:08:00 - [27]
 

Quote:
If I haul polytextiles six jumps and mark it up to ten times its value it's on your head buying it for the quick fix instead of making the twelve jump roundtrip.


If you didn't haul them in the first place there would be nothing to fix, smart guy.

Putting the item on the Market triggers the mission - hence requiring people to buy your goods or go elsewhere.

You are the source of the problem, not the solution.

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2003.10.21 08:19:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 21/10/2003 08:25:39
How dense are you, didn't I first explain that I haul goods to places I myself have been asked to bring goods to from missions. Jebus, read and try to comprehend for once! Rolling Eyes

So what if they're forced to make the twelve jump roundtrip, if that's not you then don't do the missions and leave the implants for me.

To me the situation is the same as with going long for bistot and the risk of running into pirates. no-one said it was going to be easy and within your rights to get everything with little to no effort.

Discorporation
Amarr
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2003.10.21 08:32:00 - [29]
 

they removed the availability trigger, Veruna.

McWatt
Caldari
Posted - 2003.10.21 09:37:00 - [30]
 

the real problem is that the market-system is not working at all and that people don t know what to do with their money.

in a universe of 1000s of worlds, who could monopolize livestock????

the only real solution i see, is having only "necessary" items on the market. everything that is traded should be of some use. (this implies some more steps to production, usage of food, energy, water. repairs needing tools and parts,...)

everything else wont work in the long run.


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