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blankseplocked FYI: Lilith Veco nee Lilith Thy'nin Disrespects 1v1
 
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Kernel Sander
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration
Combined Planetary Union
Posted - 2006.09.08 20:38:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Kernel Sander on 13/09/2006 20:48:03
Edited by: Kernel Sander on 13/09/2006 20:46:57
Edited by: Kernel Sander on 13/09/2006 03:41:46

(forgot to update the thread title)

[EDIT]: This situation has been resolved. The killmail and my logs were sufficient to prove that I had only 2x NOS, a fairly normal setup for a Raven, and as a result I did not redock and refit.

Thank you TribalBleb and Damien for both looking into this matter and taking me at my word when I swore I would never refit my ship to give myself an edge in a 1vs1. Neither of them had to do this, and considering how noxious this thread became, deciding to simply ignore the problem would certainly have been a valid option

To restate in light of the resolution: Lilith Veco and his alt, Lilith Thy'nin, disrespected a declared 1vs1. I beat the snot out of him and he warped away while his alt scram'n'jammed me. After his primary had repped, he came back and over the course of several minutes finally managed to break my tank and kill me.

If you are finding this thread as the result of a search on either TURBY or Lilith, please understand that most of the comments in this thread occured before the conflict was resolved. For my part I am grateful for the outcome.

Sakura Nihil
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2006.09.08 20:53:00 - [2]
 

Other side of the story por favor?

Kernel Sander
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration
Combined Planetary Union
Posted - 2006.09.08 21:05:00 - [3]
 

What other side of the story is there, exactly, for someone violating a declared 1v1? "Oops, I accidentally brought my alt in, who accidentally permajammed my opponent while we spent the next 10m accidentally trying to get in enough DPS to accidentally finally get through his prodigious tank and accidentally kill him?"

The next to the last thing he said to me was, quote, "Pirated." The last thing was to offer to let me pay my way out of it.

Note that I am *NOT* accusing anyone of "cheating," a concept which is relative in a game like EVE. I admit this entire game is a study in Caveat Emptor. I am just trying to make sure that other potential victims understand the "caveat" part where TURBY is concerned.

Damien Smith
The Insane Tormentors
Posted - 2006.09.08 21:23:00 - [4]
 

Who is the person you 1v1'd? Whoever it is will be dealt with as Turby don't dishonour 1v1's or ransoms. We may be ebil piwats but we keep our word. Either post their name in here, or eve-mail me or whatever and I'll be sure that it gets passed on to the man in charge.

Miss KillSome
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2006.09.08 21:50:00 - [5]
 

What can u expect from pirate than that?

Father Weebles
Celestial Refraction
Posted - 2006.09.08 21:50:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Father Weebles on 08/09/2006 21:51:21
I think i know who did it...


Lil...

Kernel Sander
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration
Combined Planetary Union
Posted - 2006.09.08 21:55:00 - [7]
 

So as to avoid directly implicating any one person, I will handle the exchange of names in evemail. If the situation is dealt with, I will be happy to edit my original post with the appropriate information and, if necessary, a retraction.

NOTE: Until that time, my original post stands. TURBY disrespects 1v1's and any person offered a 1v1 by *any* TURBY member should understand that it appears to be TURBY corporate policy to violate a 1v1 if the TURBY member loses.

Words are good, but they are of no greater intrinsic value than the assurance of a 1v1 was to me last night.

Damien Smith
The Insane Tormentors
Posted - 2006.09.08 21:58:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Kernel Sander
So as to avoid directly implicating any one person, I will handle the exchange of names in evemail. If the situation is dealt with, I will be happy to edit my original post with the appropriate information and, if necessary, a retraction.

NOTE: Until that time, my original post stands. TURBY disrespects 1v1's and any person offered a 1v1 by *any* TURBY member should understand that it appears to be TURBY corporate policy to violate a 1v1 if the TURBY member loses.

Words are good, but they are of no greater intrinsic value than the assurance of a 1v1 was to me last night.


That sounds fair enough. Our CEO's been made aware of this thread and it's being dealt with. I'll keep you informed as much as I can.

Pestillence
Revelations Inc.
Shroud Of Darkness
Posted - 2006.09.08 22:06:00 - [9]
 

For what its worth I've had my run ins with Turby and I would trust them to honour ransoms and 1v1's should the occasion arise.


tookar
Amarr
THORN Syndicate
THORN Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.08 22:09:00 - [10]
 

Ah well at least you had more fun than me when i got warped to a pos after and agreed 1v1 duel .
The alliance involved shall remain unnamed ill try and gank some next time im down there and if not theres always mercs :)

TribalBleb
H A V O C
Posted - 2006.09.08 23:13:00 - [11]
 

I havenít heard his side of the story yet but I do definitely not approve this kind of behaviour.

We do honour our 1vs1's and our ransoms, this will not happen again.

Kernel Sander
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration
Combined Planetary Union
Posted - 2006.09.08 23:48:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: TribalBleb
I havenít heard his side of the story yet but I do definitely not approve this kind of behaviour.

We do honour our 1vs1's and our ransoms, this will not happen again.



To clarify: I am not disputing the claim that TURBY honors ransoms. When the TURBY employee offered me ransom at the end of the dishonored 1v1, I turned it down because I assumed that, as TURBY had violated the terms of a 1v1, I couldn't trust them to honor a ransom either.

TURBY cost me about 180 million in Raven + fixin's. I was not going to risk another ISK on the dubious prospect of them honoring a ransom at that point, it just seemed pointless. That said, turning down the ransom was my decision and their claim to honor ransoms is, to the best of my knowledge, valid. If anything I have said can be read differently, then I apologize for the confusion.

Waragha
GreenSwarm
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.09 00:01:00 - [13]
 

So ... The turkey is baked?! Twisted EvilWinkYARRRR!!

Gift
Amarr
Loot
Pirate Coalition
Posted - 2006.09.09 05:53:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Gift on 09/09/2006 16:27:39
Originally by: Miss KillSome
What can u expect from pirate than that?
I expect pirates to keep their word, they are the only people in eve in any honor.

Caleb Paine
State War Academy
Posted - 2006.09.09 07:05:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Gift
Originally by: Miss KillSome
What can u expect from pirate than that?
I expect pirates to keep their word, they are they only people in eve in any honor.


Well, that's a bunch of BS if I ever saw one. First of all 'honor' means absoulutely nothing here, keeping your word and having a set of principles does.

You meet good people and idiots everywhere in this game, it's as simple as that.

Miss KillSome
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2006.09.09 09:00:00 - [16]
 

point is, u never know, ehn do u meet pirate who is trustworthy in his words, and who is not..

i've been around 0.0 and low sec enough to know, that rather dont trust pirate then coop with him..

Jake Stevens
Independent Traders
Ignition.
Posted - 2006.09.09 10:57:00 - [17]
 

Wow... After knowing turby for a while now, I could tell they were very much the people who honoured 1v1's and ransoms. We even had a chat about this a while ago and they said they would never ever dishonour a 1v1 or a ransom. Hopefully this is all a misunderstanding, but even after this event i'd happidly pay a ransom or 1v1 against turby.

Gift
Amarr
Loot
Pirate Coalition
Posted - 2006.09.09 16:37:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Caleb Paine
Originally by: Gift
Originally by: Miss KillSome
What can u expect from pirate than that?
I expect pirates to keep their word, they are they only people in eve in any honor.


Well, that's a bunch of BS if I ever saw one. First of all 'honor' means absoulutely nothing here, keeping your word and having a set of principles does.

You meet good people and idiots everywhere in this game, it's as simple as that.
It's all about honor, hence they call it "honoring you word".

Pesky LaRue
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2006.09.09 16:58:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Miss KillSome
What can u expect from pirate than that?


don't tar everyone with the same brush, please.

Kernel Sander
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration
Combined Planetary Union
Posted - 2006.09.09 20:59:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Miss KillSome
What can u expect from pirate than that?


Whatever. This thread was to warn people about doing business with TURBY and expecting them to honor their agreements, not a general thread for debating the moral fiber of a whole group based on their profession. That discussion is for another thread or, better yet, no thread at all. I've had 1v1's before and no one has ever dishonored their agreement, win or lose.

ian666
Minmatar
Virtual Democracy
C0VEN
Posted - 2006.09.12 11:53:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: ian666 on 12/09/2006 11:55:02
I've been away but i'll be sure to hear the story, and pwn whoever is in the wrong !! YAR

If you accept 1vs1 you should be there to the death ! we don't accept anyone that doesn't and would also be upset if this happened to my self, but we have to hear both sides of the story, we will have a answer later tonight.

Dumus
Amarr
Vipera Centauri
Posted - 2006.09.12 12:28:00 - [22]
 

VETO have had run ins with Turby. I can hand on heart say they honour their word and are a good bunch of guys. That said I know, as we have them now and again, people are sometimes ass-hats and break "corp" policies. When this happens in VETO it is dealt with very swiftly and if found guilty of anything, punished by a drop kick out the corp hanger door.
You should not tar the whole corp with the same brush. you should have said something like, A pilot from Turby dishonoured a 1v1" and I know the Turby guys would have acted on the intel.
I hope we hear from the CEO in this thread that it has been dealt with in an appropriate manner. Of course we do not need to hear the name. The word of the CEO should be enough.

Resin Kadir
S.A.S
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.09.12 12:33:00 - [23]
 

As far as rules for 1v1... You fight however you want and you warp away if need be but once a person warps away... I'd discontinue gang. For ECM and warp scrambling, hell yeah. The art of war is not fairness. If you can ECM, scram, NOS and deal out damage then I hope you can keep it up. And if you can;t handle that stuff against you... don't pvp and then cry about it on forums.

And alts being used in a 1v1 is wrong. Shame on turby.

Resin Kadir
S.A.S
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.09.12 12:36:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Kernel Sander
Originally by: Miss KillSome
What can u expect from pirate than that?


Whatever. This thread was to warn people about doing business with TURBY and expecting them to honor their agreements, not a general thread for debating the moral fiber of a whole group based on their profession. That discussion is for another thread or, better yet, no thread at all. I've had 1v1's before and no one has ever dishonored their agreement, win or lose.


And yes, if you are going to slander an entire corp, you better expect a morale debate. One declaration does not make it so.

Kernel Sander
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration
Combined Planetary Union
Posted - 2006.09.12 18:35:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Kernel Sander on 12/09/2006 18:45:07
Originally by: Resin Kadir
As far as rules for 1v1... If you can ECM, scram, NOS and deal out damage then I hope you can keep it up. And if you can;t handle that stuff against you... don't pvp and then cry about it on forums.


The reason for the forum post is this: About 10 days ago, TURBY invaded Pakkonen, bottled up most of the people there and then began issuing 1v1 challenges. I took them up on it and they broke their word, so I announced in this thread that they had done so. This was done so that others issued similar challenges in the future would know the dangers involved.

As to the "cry about it in the forums" comment: was TURBY crying several threads back when they warned people about the guy who stole 400M ISK in loot from their corp hangar? They gave a heads up "watch out for this dude, he's a hangar thief." I was doing the same: "Watch out for TURBY, they dishonored a 1v1."

FWIW I'm also interested in hearing "the other side." Although the 1v1 challenge was issued on local over three successive days, and the killmail pretty clearly shows two ships involved in blowing me up. So that's gonna be an interesting other side to hear.

Galan Amarias
Amarr
Kantian Principle
Posted - 2006.09.12 18:49:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Resin Kadir
As far as rules for 1v1... You fight however you want and you warp away if need be but once a person warps away... I'd discontinue gang. For ECM and warp scrambling, hell yeah. The art of war is not fairness. If you can ECM, scram, NOS and deal out damage then I hope you can keep it up. And if you can;t handle that stuff against you... don't pvp and then cry about it on forums.

And alts being used in a 1v1 is wrong. Shame on turby.


The art of war has nothing to do with a Dule, which is what a 1v1 implies. In war you blob, gank and slaugter.. that is war. Once you set up an engagment in chat and rules are communicated and agreed upon it's not "war" anymore. Anyone who fails to honor their word should be brought to the attention of the comunity on the boards.. Anyone saying, "say whatever gets someone to trust you long enough to get them in range of your gank" needs to be mentioned here so they are never trusted.

TribalBleb
H A V O C
Posted - 2006.09.12 19:48:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: TribalBleb on 12/09/2006 19:49:49
Apparently my corp m8 was sitting outside the station where Kernel was docked when he challenged him for a 1vs1, Kernel undocked, had a look at his ship and docked, after that he fitted his ship specifically against it (Kernel fitted a nos raven, my corp m8 was in an absolution), you donít do that in a proper 1vs1.

The 1vs1 got dishonoured on both sides, end of story.

vile56
Metalworks
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2006.09.12 19:49:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Galan Amarias
Originally by: Resin Kadir
As far as rules for 1v1... You fight however you want and you warp away if need be but once a person warps away... I'd discontinue gang. For ECM and warp scrambling, hell yeah. The art of war is not fairness. If you can ECM, scram, NOS and deal out damage then I hope you can keep it up. And if you can;t handle that stuff against you... don't pvp and then cry about it on forums.

And alts being used in a 1v1 is wrong. Shame on turby.


The art of war has nothing to do with a Dule, which is what a 1v1 implies. In war you blob, gank and slaugter.. that is war. Once you set up an engagment in chat and rules are communicated and agreed upon it's not "war" anymore. Anyone who fails to honor their word should be brought to the attention of the comunity on the boards.. Anyone saying, "say whatever gets someone to trust you long enough to get them in range of your gank" needs to be mentioned here so they are never trusted.


qft.

since this has already been necroed any word on the other half?

Damien Smith
The Insane Tormentors
Posted - 2006.09.12 19:55:00 - [29]
 

From what we've heard the fight was dishonoured on both sides. Kernal undocked to see what Lilith was flying, then docked and fitted with the exact counter to that ship. Lilith then warped in his alt because he was taking on a nos raven that was slowly killing him with a single cruise missile that he had no way of repairing.

I think both sides have something to answer for.

Kernel Sander
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration
Combined Planetary Union
Posted - 2006.09.12 20:27:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: TribalBleb
Edited by: TribalBleb on 12/09/2006 19:49:49
Apparently my corp m8 was sitting outside the station where Kernel was docked when he challenged him for a 1vs1, Kernel undocked, had a look at his ship and docked, after that he fitted his ship specifically against it (Kernel fitted a nos raven, my corp m8 was in an absolution), you donít do that in a proper 1vs1.

The 1vs1 got dishonoured on both sides, end of story.


I'm sorry, but that is incorrect. First, I didn't undock and redock. second, i didn't refit my ship. You're being lied to. Third, I didn't activate my NOS until after he did, and at any rate NOS was never prohibited. How do you square this story with him using an ECM that was specifically prohibited? At this point, I realize this is all my word vs. my opponents. Is there any known way to verify our stories to suss out who is in the right? Might the logs hold clues to the docking sequences and order of operation for when weapons were brought to bear? I'm not at home so cannot check my combat logs right now, but if NOS shows up, then that will verify that my NOS was engaged only after his, although unfortunately it does little to verify my claim that I never redocked.

Oh! Another clue to check for: I ganged the alt, not the primary, and was flown to the PVP spot. I believe I never even saw the Absolution until I reached the safe spot, and my opponent only told me that his Raven had been destroyed, but that he "had another ship" he could use. Any gang logs my opponent submitted should verify that. If the Absolution wasn't there, I cant very well have looked at it, can I?


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