open All Channels
seplocked Ships and Modules
blankseplocked ECM "Why is it taking ccp solong to fix it?"
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2 3 4

Author Topic

Amarraion
Xze0n
Posted - 2006.09.05 05:23:00 - [1]
 

I know its old news but why is it taking CCP solong to fix sumfin which is very ****ED up, i mean is ECM that complexed that its req MONTHS upon MONTHS to fix it!

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.09.05 05:26:00 - [2]
 

CCP, after years and years, why don't you add a Rants forum section?

Rants forum is greatly needed, it'd be almost as popular as General Discussion

Jim McGregor
Posted - 2006.09.05 05:57:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Ephemeron
CCP, after years and years, why don't you add a Rants forum section?

Rants forum is greatly needed, it'd be almost as popular as General Discussion


People generally post rants with the intention to get them read, not ignored. :)

Chewan Mesa
Resurrection
Gentlemen's Club
Posted - 2006.09.05 07:29:00 - [4]
 

Stop ranting, fit ECCMs, dont be a sad panda anymore.

Nyssa Dakalsai
Tactical Initiative
Posted - 2006.09.05 09:30:00 - [5]
 

Simply because its not a simple problem.


ReaperOfSly
Gallente
Underworld Protection Agency
South Pole Dancers
Posted - 2006.09.05 10:38:00 - [6]
 

What's the problem with ECM, or have I missed something?

Testicular Testes
Posted - 2006.09.05 10:53:00 - [7]
 

If by something you mean the last 6 months, then yes. You missed something.

Audrea
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.05 10:56:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Chewan Mesa
Stop ranting, fit ECCMs, dont be a sad panda anymore.


They dont help.. I tried it once, and still got jammed easily.

Callistus
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.05 10:58:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Audrea
Originally by: Chewan Mesa
Stop ranting, fit ECCMs, dont be a sad panda anymore.


They dont help.. I tried it once, and still got jammed easily.

Its a chance based system; you tried it once and decided it doesn't help?

ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God
Posted - 2006.09.05 11:03:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Amarraion
I know its old news but why is it taking CCP solong to fix sumfin which is very ****ED up, i mean is ECM that complexed that its req MONTHS upon MONTHS to fix it!



Unless you've got a perfect solution that nobody will argue with, don't criticize CCP for not doing something. Yes, ECM IS that complex. It's something which is a necessary part of game play (defensive combat), but is also almost impossible to balance perfectly.

CCP is aware that ECM has problems, and that boosting ECCM hasn't solved all of it. But unless you have something to contribute, don't criticize CCP for not "fixing it".

Try studying game design and perhaps you'll understand.

Jim McGregor
Posted - 2006.09.05 11:24:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK
Originally by: Amarraion
I know its old news but why is it taking CCP solong to fix sumfin which is very ****ED up, i mean is ECM that complexed that its req MONTHS upon MONTHS to fix it!



Unless you've got a perfect solution that nobody will argue with, don't criticize CCP for not doing something. Yes, ECM IS that complex. It's something which is a necessary part of game play (defensive combat), but is also almost impossible to balance perfectly.

CCP is aware that ECM has problems, and that boosting ECCM hasn't solved all of it. But unless you have something to contribute, don't criticize CCP for not "fixing it".

Try studying game design and perhaps you'll understand.


Very true. All the people screaming "DO SOMETHING" might want to suggest a good solution that works for everybody instead. "something" is not a solution.

XGS Crimson
Posted - 2006.09.05 11:33:00 - [12]
 

ecm goes against the laws of this game.... its a calculation based game filled with 1s and 0s and then u throw a 2 in there and its all buggerd.
ecm has no way of being blocked its just completly random

tookar
Amarr
THORN Syndicate
THORN Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.05 11:48:00 - [13]
 

Make ecm cycles 10 secs and use half the cap and affect high slot modules only .

XGS Crimson
Posted - 2006.09.05 11:52:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: tookar
Make ecm cycles 10 secs and use half the cap and affect high slot modules only .


make ecm a high slot module itself?

would make things better although u would need to edit all the caldari ships... they need a nerf... (hehe i just sparked off sumthing bad!)

tookar
Amarr
THORN Syndicate
THORN Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.05 11:54:00 - [15]
 

IMO the owrst thing about ecm is that an opponent can always run if he starts losing as you cant keep him scrammed i think it should affect high slot modules only but still take a medslot as it is a caldari racial thing . Make each succesfull ecm jam disable 3 turrets for ten or 20 secs instead of getting a free warpout they get a weapon advantage just like any other ewar in the game .

XGS Crimson
Posted - 2006.09.05 11:58:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: tookar
IMO the owrst thing about ecm is that an opponent can always run if he starts losing as you cant keep him scrammed i think it should affect high slot modules only but still take a medslot as it is a caldari racial thing . Make each succesfull ecm jam disable 3 turrets for ten or 20 secs instead of getting a free warpout they get a weapon advantage just like any other ewar in the game .


hmm ecm is far to powerful, i have one in my thorax pvp setup.
I got 6 runs in a row last night against a ferox using multispecteral.... now thats a whole 2 mins of not firing which is longer than most combat lasts and i only used one... for somthing that uses chance its far too powerful.
if they made it effect modules rather than the actual ship it would make it more reasonable such as only shutting down 2 modules or so, or maybe even make it a break lock module that breaks the lock but doesnt prevent relock.

lofty29
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.09.05 12:02:00 - [17]
 

Revert to the old system where you needed Blah points to permajam a BS. Hell, if you want, why not make it so that if you dont quite get a permajam, their sensor strength / range is affected?

Blind Man
Caldari
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2006.09.05 12:03:00 - [18]
 

anything chance based in eve = very bad

Audrea
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.05 12:04:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Callistus
Originally by: Audrea
Originally by: Chewan Mesa
Stop ranting, fit ECCMs, dont be a sad panda anymore.


They dont help.. I tried it once, and still got jammed easily.

Its a chance based system; you tried it once and decided it doesn't help?


Yes. Take a scorp for example with 8 jammers.
It activates first one - no jam? second one. still no jam? third one, still not? roll the dice again..

I am not expert to statistical calculations, but the more you roll the dice, the better chance you get jam.

Lets say I am in a HAC, with sensor strength of 15.
assuming I fit ECCM, it would be 22 or 23.

Now, multispec T2 has strength of 4.8 (befor skill is applied). Now lets say you got caldari BS lvl4, which means 20% stronger, equals 5.76, now add in lvl4 at the skill Signal Dispression.

Now that would be 6.9 for each multispec!

Thats 1/3 chance to jam a HAC even with ECCM module!
now multiply it by 8: 8*(1/3)=2.5, which is over 1 and means parmajam :P

the high number also means higher strength (BS sized) ships will also be parmajammed.

NIkis
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.09.05 12:41:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: NIkis on 05/09/2006 12:49:41
Edited by: NIkis on 05/09/2006 12:48:41
Edited by: NIkis on 05/09/2006 12:46:02
Originally by: Audrea
Originally by: Callistus
Originally by: Audrea
Originally by: Chewan Mesa
Stop ranting, fit ECCMs, dont be a sad panda anymore.


They dont help.. I tried it once, and still got jammed easily.

Its a chance based system; you tried it once and decided it doesn't help?


Yes. Take a scorp for example with 8 jammers.
It activates first one - no jam? second one. still no jam? third one, still not? roll the dice again..

I am not expert to statistical calculations, but the more you roll the dice, the better chance you get jam.

Lets say I am in a HAC, with sensor strength of 15.
assuming I fit ECCM, it would be 22 or 23.

Now, multispec T2 has strength of 4.8 (befor skill is applied). Now lets say you got caldari BS lvl4, which means 20% stronger, equals 5.76, now add in lvl4 at the skill Signal Dispression.

Now that would be 6.9 for each multispec!

Thats 1/3 chance to jam a HAC even with ECCM module!
now multiply it by 8: 8*(1/3)=2.5, which is over 1 and means parmajam :P

the high number also means higher strength (BS sized) ships will also be parmajammed.


You assume your opponent using multiple ECMs and yet you pretend to be able to counter that with a single ECCM module ? am i the only one seeing the faulty logic in this ?
Also your HAC might have a low sensor strength but that is because its a type of cruiser geared towards dealing a punch .. why not run the comparison against a recon cruiser ?
And probability laws dont work simple like 8*1/3. There is always a chance that all 8 attempts will fail.
I think the presence of a random element is very welcome in a game (as opposed to fixed spawns and fixed times and whatever else getting abused by campers and such), even though I rarely use ECM.
To sum it up.. stop ranting, fit ECCMs if you fear ECM so much. Or use a different ship. Or jam the jammer. Or whatever other course of action there may be.
IMO there's nothing 'to fix' about ECM.. it's allright as it is.

Edit: if the scorp using all 8 mids for jamming you, what stops you from warping away ? Laughing

slothe
Caldari
Jian Products Engineering Group
Atlas.
Posted - 2006.09.05 12:44:00 - [21]
 

i thought it was fixed with eccm.

dunno what your ranting on about tbh. i cant see it changing now.

Trev Kachanov
STK Scientific
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.05 12:51:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: tookar
IMO the owrst thing about ecm is that an opponent can always run if he starts losing as you cant keep him scrammed i think it should affect high slot modules only but still take a medslot as it is a caldari racial thing . Make each succesfull ecm jam disable 3 turrets for ten or 20 secs instead of getting a free warpout they get a weapon advantage just like any other ewar in the game .


Interdictor.... people dont know how vital these things are

NIkis
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.09.05 12:53:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Trev Kachanov


Interdictor.... people dont know how vital these things are


Some people dont know many things, but would rather rant than learn.

Nahia Senne
Initium Malum
Posted - 2006.09.05 12:54:00 - [24]
 

Fixing ECM nonsense is easy. Just make it have the same effect as burst ECM module! Simple solution and more in line with how effective other ewar modules are.

To all whiners who whine about losing their IWIN button, die you incompetent noobs Razz

Minroct Duprect
Subite
Posted - 2006.09.05 12:59:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Audrea
Originally by: Callistus
Originally by: Audrea
Originally by: Chewan Mesa
Stop ranting, fit ECCMs, dont be a sad panda anymore.


They dont help.. I tried it once, and still got jammed easily.

Its a chance based system; you tried it once and decided it doesn't help?


Yes. Take a scorp for example with 8 jammers.
It activates first one - no jam? second one. still no jam? third one, still not? roll the dice again..

I am not expert to statistical calculations, but the more you roll the dice, the better chance you get jam.

Lets say I am in a HAC, with sensor strength of 15.
assuming I fit ECCM, it would be 22 or 23.

Now, multispec T2 has strength of 4.8 (befor skill is applied). Now lets say you got caldari BS lvl4, which means 20% stronger, equals 5.76, now add in lvl4 at the skill Signal Dispression.

Now that would be 6.9 for each multispec!

Thats 1/3 chance to jam a HAC even with ECCM module!
now multiply it by 8: 8*(1/3)=2.5, which is over 1 and means parmajam :P

the high number also means higher strength (BS sized) ships will also be parmajammed.


I haven't bothered checking the rest of your maths - but the last bit is definately wrong. If you are correct and the hac has a 1/3 chance to be jammed (33%) then with multiple jammers the effects are multiplied

i.e. HAC will not be jammed

With 1 jammer - 2/3 = 66%
With 2 jammers - 4/9 = 44%
With 3 jammers - 8/27 = 30%
With 4 jammers - 16/81 = 20%

So the chances are that your example hac using eccm will be jammed 80% of the time using 4 jammers - there is no such thing as permajam - it will never reach 100%


NIkis
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.09.05 13:01:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Nahia Senne
Fixing ECM nonsense is easy. Just make it have the same effect as burst ECM module! Simple solution and more in line with how effective other ewar modules are.

To all whiners who whine about losing their IWIN button, die you incompetent noobs Razz


And may i ask who would fit ecm then, when burst doing the same, and with area of effect ? (enough range to counter most warp jammers too)
What i see is whiners losing because they cant use their ships properly.

NIkis
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.09.05 13:03:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: NIkis on 05/09/2006 13:04:54
Edited by: NIkis on 05/09/2006 13:03:11


Quote:


I haven't bothered checking the rest of your maths - but the last bit is definately wrong. If you are correct and the hac has a 1/3 chance to be jammed (33%) then with multiple jammers the effects are multiplied

i.e. HAC will not be jammed

With 1 jammer - 2/3 = 66%
With 2 jammers - 4/9 = 44%
With 3 jammers - 8/27 = 30%
With 4 jammers - 16/81 = 20%

So the chances are that your example hac using eccm will be jammed 80% of the time using 4 jammers - there is no such thing as permajam - it will never reach 100%




thanks for clearing the math part :)
that is HAC using ONE ECCM against scorp using FOUR ECM
to put things in perspective

Audrea
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.05 13:14:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Minroct Duprect
Originally by: Audrea
Originally by: Callistus
Originally by: Audrea
Originally by: Chewan Mesa
Stop ranting, fit ECCMs, dont be a sad panda anymore.


They dont help.. I tried it once, and still got jammed easily.

Its a chance based system; you tried it once and decided it doesn't help?


Yes. Take a scorp for example with 8 jammers.
It activates first one - no jam? second one. still no jam? third one, still not? roll the dice again..

I am not expert to statistical calculations, but the more you roll the dice, the better chance you get jam.

Lets say I am in a HAC, with sensor strength of 15.
assuming I fit ECCM, it would be 22 or 23.

Now, multispec T2 has strength of 4.8 (befor skill is applied). Now lets say you got caldari BS lvl4, which means 20% stronger, equals 5.76, now add in lvl4 at the skill Signal Dispression.

Now that would be 6.9 for each multispec!

Thats 1/3 chance to jam a HAC even with ECCM module!
now multiply it by 8: 8*(1/3)=2.5, which is over 1 and means parmajam :P

the high number also means higher strength (BS sized) ships will also be parmajammed.


I haven't bothered checking the rest of your maths - but the last bit is definately wrong. If you are correct and the hac has a 1/3 chance to be jammed (33%) then with multiple jammers the effects are multiplied

i.e. HAC will not be jammed

With 1 jammer - 2/3 = 66%
With 2 jammers - 4/9 = 44%
With 3 jammers - 8/27 = 30%
With 4 jammers - 16/81 = 20%

So the chances are that your example hac using eccm will be jammed 80% of the time using 4 jammers - there is no such thing as permajam - it will never reach 100%




I believe you made a common calculation mistake:
What you did is multiply 2/3 by 2/3.
But this (IIRC) represents the case of throwing cubes, and the chance to get 6/6 is 1/6 mutiplied by 1/6 which emans 1/36 (AND case)
This is not the case with jammers.

With jammers each jammer gives a chance of its own (OR case), which means we sum the chances of each jammer and dont multiply them.

Hence the chances are:
2/3+2/3=4/3= 133% chance for a jam.

I might be wrong.. been over year since I studied basic combinatorics...
But next year I should have the deep course, so will see Smile

Nahia Senne
Initium Malum
Posted - 2006.09.05 13:18:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: NIkis
And may i ask who would fit ecm then, when burst doing the same, and with area of effect ? (enough range to counter most warp jammers too)
What i see is whiners losing because they cant use their ships properly.


May i point out that having the same effect on a target does not equate to both modules having AOE effect? ^^

jamesw
Omniscient Order
Cruel Intentions
Posted - 2006.09.05 13:27:00 - [30]
 

ECCM ftw Twisted Evil


Pages: [1] 2 3 4

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only