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blankseplocked Should Training Time be Decreased?
 
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Sidraket
Amarr
Posted - 2006.09.04 23:38:00 - [91]
 

Training times are fine, if you have advanced learning skills at 4.

Thats a big hassle, and its prevented me from making other characters because i just DONT want to sit through all of that again. Remove those skills, give everyone the stat boost of them. I JUST finished training them up, they take up almost a third of my characters total SPs, and id be willing to make that all amount to nothing if you just got rid of them and gave everyone the stat boost.

Teccmo
Gallente
Silent Knight Industries - Virtual Tech
Slacker Trade Federation Unlimited
Posted - 2006.09.05 02:01:00 - [92]
 

My only gripe about training time is when I think about how long Eve will last. If the game is going to go strong for another 3 years, which IMO it definatley will, new peak player records since I've joined over a year ago then there is no reason to complain and those wacky geniuses at CCP will keep adding and building bigger and better things, and more goals for us as pilots to achieve.

violator2k5
Poor Old Ornery nOObs
Turdz Asshatz N Grieferz
Posted - 2006.09.05 02:37:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Admai Sket
'x16' skills just sound rediculous to me - level 5 on one of those must be a few MONTHS, surely?




basically just work out what skills you need for that skill then look at x1 skill that requires the same skills and then do the match its not that hard

x1 skill x x16 = roughly 64 days give or take a few days depending on attributes

Karoth Tyu
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.09.05 02:39:00 - [94]
 

Getting all your basic PvP or industrial skills to 4 takes no time at all. Anyone can easily become deadly at PvP or awesome at industry in a few short months. It's the specialization of skill sets which takes time.

And I for one am glad as hell that it takes time and effort to become good at anyone one thing in this game. Eve doesn't need demigod players who are level 5 at everything.


Quote:
- to be an all-round effective PVPer, you will have to be able to use a T2 fitted BS. This takes almost a year for most races (Exception: Caldari).


That's absolute crap.
To be an all-round effective PvPer, you just have to have an IQ higher than a boot's.

Tech2 helps, but its hardly the end all be all in Eve combat, especially out in 0.0 where 1 on 1 battles (where Tech2 excels) hardly happen. In this game, tactics and brainpower > Shiny trinkets. Period.

Leumas Ebmocnud
Nebula Rasa Vanguard
Nebula Rasa
Posted - 2006.09.05 03:53:00 - [95]
 

Eve is a drug, and CCP are the dealers :P

Its in their interest to have horrendously long skill training times, it keeps the money flowing in. Can you imagine your 3rd week into the game, you`ve got your Titan, you`ve setup your POS, the isk is flowing and you think what next?

The skill times are long to keep the monthly subscriptions coming in, and we will pay it because we are addicted to improving our characters 'inch by tiny inch'

ShockedShockedShockedVery HappyVery HappyVery Happy

Cletus Graeme
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.09.05 04:10:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Lazuran

What do you think, should training be faster? Answers from people with 30m+ SP aren't interesting, they're biased ;-).



It ain't gonna happen but i would prefer it if :

(1) learning skills were removed completely
(2) train times of skills were reduced to compensate for this

Why ?

Learning skills really are what you are referring to as "timesink skills" which have no real purpose but are just a result of the way the game was designed.

They are an existing example of the problem with the "Warp to 0km" skill that some have proposed as an alternative to instas. Everyone would have to train it and once they did it would be the same as if everyone has started with the skill in the first place.

Almost everyone hates them but almost everyone trains them cos not do so means you will suffer from a huge SP disadavantage within a few months of starting, which happens to be about the same time that you become effective in PvP so deciding whether to train them or not has a direct impact on your ability to compete with others.

I'd leave the racial differences in attribs as they are and still give players the ability to distribute some of the starting attrib points as they see fit but thereafter only give them a way to temporarily boost attribs using implants and drugs.

Learning skills suck imo.




Cletus Graeme
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.09.05 04:40:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Sidraket
Training times are fine, if you have advanced learning skills at 4.

Thats a big hassle, and its prevented me from making other characters because i just DONT want to sit through all of that again. Remove those skills, give everyone the stat boost of them. I JUST finished training them up, they take up almost a third of my characters total SPs, and id be willing to make that all amount to nothing if you just got rid of them and gave everyone the stat boost.


/signed

RedLion
Caldari
State Constructions
Posted - 2006.09.05 11:59:00 - [98]
 

noo, not a general stat boost.

would waste my skill points.

then i should get those sp back to put in other skills, imo :(

Pablos Ine
Posted - 2006.09.05 12:12:00 - [99]
 

Training times are fine, to be honest, i'd feel a little cheated to find that training times were decreased because someone didnt want to wait as long.

We all have done it, train your learning skills up, buy implants. Thats what everyone else does.

jamesw
Omniscient Order
Cruel Intentions
Posted - 2006.09.05 12:16:00 - [100]
 


lol at all the people claiming you need a t2 fitted BS to be an "all round pvper". Thats just plain wrong. PVP is about teamwork, not about ship setups.

A well trained "noob" can easily contribute to a pvp operation, and needs relatively few skillpoints to get into an interceptor. As you train for your t2 bs, you can fly your way up through inties, cruisers, battlecruisers and tech 1 fitted BS. All of which are effective pvp ships, and all of which I would never refuse from an operation.

If you want to go to 0.0 and fight fleet battles, then yeah a t2 fitted BS might help - but even fleet battles need tacklers.

Yes, it takes time to pick up the skills to use a t2 fitted BS, but believe me, it takes a lot longer to pick up the "smarts" to use one. Most of all, you don't need one to have fun.


Mikey Monkfish
Posted - 2006.09.05 15:04:00 - [101]
 

I really can't be arsed nor have the time to read 4 pages, so I'll add my opinion and find a suitable shelter to hide in, so here we go....

**Dons flame ******ant suit**

Being relatively new to Eve, I don't have that many skills to speak of ATM. I've been in the game about 1-2 weeks, and have a few lvl 4 skills, mostly lvl 2-3 and currently learning a few core skills at lvl 1.

Now, I was looking at what skill to choose next. I though I'd go for Gallante Frigate lvl 4 (I think it was that anyway), but it was going to take some 22 days! Shocked

Now, from my point of view, I really do not want to wait nearly a month to gain a skill that will let me learn another skill to get a big ship I can't even afford yet. I don't mind it taking 22 days, but I'm not sure what I could do in the meantime. 22 days of hauling ore about is really gonna bore my t*ts off. ugh

However, on the flipside, I can appreciate and understand that the 1yr+ vets in the game have sat through the same laborious skill training and ore shifting routine previously.

In conclusion, it's a case of head down, arse up, and get on with it. I will continue what I am doing, learning new skills and builing up my Corp to the point where I could call myself a vet, and laugh at the other noobs at the time whining about skill times. Rolling Eyes

Tasty Burger
Posted - 2006.09.05 15:09:00 - [102]
 

They need to unnerf vherokior and intaki because they have **** perc and will and thus suck at combat. My char has been training pvpish skills since release and has only 34 million SP ugh

Charisma FTL.

Chewan Mesa
Resurrection
Gentlemen's Club
Posted - 2006.09.05 15:24:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Mikey Monkfish
I really can't be arsed nor have the time to read 4 pages, so I'll add my opinion and find a suitable shelter to hide in, so here we go....

**Dons flame ******ant suit**

Being relatively new to Eve, I don't have that many skills to speak of ATM. I've been in the game about 1-2 weeks, and have a few lvl 4 skills, mostly lvl 2-3 and currently learning a few core skills at lvl 1.

Now, I was looking at what skill to choose next. I though I'd go for Gallante Frigate lvl 4 (I think it was that anyway), but it was going to take some 22 days! Shocked

Now, from my point of view, I really do not want to wait nearly a month to gain a skill that will let me learn another skill to get a big ship I can't even afford yet. I don't mind it taking 22 days, but I'm not sure what I could do in the meantime. 22 days of hauling ore about is really gonna bore my t*ts off. ugh

However, on the flipside, I can appreciate and understand that the 1yr+ vets in the game have sat through the same laborious skill training and ore shifting routine previously.

In conclusion, it's a case of head down, arse up, and get on with it. I will continue what I am doing, learning new skills and builing up my Corp to the point where I could call myself a vet, and laugh at the other noobs at the time whining about skill times. Rolling Eyes


If Frigate lvl 4 would really be 22 days, I could understand the problem. But frigate lvl 5 might br 22 days with bad attributes.

So, training frig 4 isnt going to take long, and you only train frig V to get AFs and Inties when you can already pilot Frigs, probably cruisers and even battlecruisers and have some support skills.

That definetly gives you a lot to do while waiting 22 days.

As well, trust me on 1 thing, after you have trained Frig V, Cruiser V, some HAC or Recon skills and some gunnery lvl Vs, 22 days is not going to seem as long as it probably does now to you.

Ammari Prophet
Posted - 2006.09.05 15:45:00 - [104]
 

Eve has gone from a unique universe to "who can kill the other the fastest, and then run kill missions to regain sec status"

Joy.

I wouldn't mind the long training times if there were missions OTHER than kill missions still around..... killing stuff and mining gets repetative. I'd join in events, if I could find them in time... so what am I doing?

I'm starting a new character. Giving him a background. And I'm going to do my damn best to CREATE an RP Event, while training the skills that would make sense for my character to have.

Ta-freaking-da.......

And training those skills, NONE of which directly involve combat, will take me several months. In which time, my funds will probably come from mining, looting cans, or be transfered over from another character who has money to spare.

But training time for non-combat skills is really too long now, with the lack of non-combat stuff in the game. Even industrial ship and mining barges require high combat ship skills to use. If they put some of the non-combat stuff back, like courier missions, I'd be quite happy again.

Tobias Sjodin
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.09.05 15:47:00 - [105]
 

No.

BoinaAzul
Posted - 2006.09.05 16:20:00 - [106]
 

It's not that bad, it's only taking my alt about 4 months to get all the skills ready for the Archon (carrier) and the skills only cost about 3x his stagnant ISK+ASSETS. Cool

Big skills are for vets, period. Those who don't need to train anything else. Doesn't take that long for a niblet to specialize in a tech II frigate.

Karol Kei
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2006.09.05 16:36:00 - [107]
 

Edited by: Karol Kei on 05/09/2006 16:39:27
Originally by: RedLion

Well, it don't have to become hard core grind, if they had limited the gains. For example 500k SP each month or so.

It's just that some of us "new" ones really want to progress.


Then go progress. Take a frig out tonight, and get some experience. And repeat tomorrow. In a few short weeks you will have more power than 80% of population in Eve will ever have no matter how many skill points they will acquire.

EDIT: Talking about taking the frig out to PvP above. Not mining or mission grind.

The skill training is a two way street. Not only do you get the skills, you also anticipate them. The high end skills are needed so high skill characters have something to get to as well. The skill system, the wait, the effing long wait, is in the very core of Eve. Eve is a game for patient people with smarts and such people will be powerful in a couple of months - no later than they would be if the skill system was sped up. There is still so much to learn outside of the game client such as setups, ships and their relative weaknesses and uses etc.

Eve appeals to three year veterans. There is something very right there. No reason to poop it up so that this months noobs would get rewarded faster and get to the imagined "top" faster - unlike the ones last month or month before that or last year or year 2004 that also were calling for the change "cause they can't compete.

RedLion
Caldari
State Constructions
Posted - 2006.09.05 16:50:00 - [108]
 

Well, the trick is to make it abit easier for noobs to catch up with pros. :)

I wouldn't recommend going as far as wow, because there it's so extremely much easier to become good geared now on easy solo content, than it was 1 year ago.

In eve you can't do so much other than wait, and it's boring.

Sypher313
VentureCorp
Imperial Republic Of the North
Posted - 2006.09.05 17:02:00 - [109]
 

Yeah no dont shorten skill training times.

you the human needs time to develop your own "skills" to pilot those better ships. Else you dead POP!!

yeah i dint read the whole thread sue me!

Vanlade
Amarr
Cruor Aquila
Posted - 2006.09.05 17:04:00 - [110]
 

No, training time should not be decreased.

000Hunter000
Gallente
Missiles 'R' Us
Posted - 2006.09.05 17:06:00 - [111]
 

without even bothering reading all the other posts...

NO!!!

Tahreem
Minmatar
The Littlest Hobos
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2006.09.05 17:10:00 - [112]
 

Training should not be decreased EXCEPT for the learning skills reduce that learning time a bit..

I had the impression more then once since we say to all new guys joining that best is to have adv learning skills to 4... they are not active till that is done since they can't learn much else in between if they do they loose time if they don't everything else takes much longer..

So maybe decreasing the learning skills time to let the new guys feel a bit faster usefull, they are usefull as soon they can use a miner or scramble in my opinion but not every new guy agrees on that with me..

Rest of the skills are just fine

violator2k5
Poor Old Ornery nOObs
Turdz Asshatz N Grieferz
Posted - 2006.09.05 17:48:00 - [113]
 

from what i've seen the training time shouldnt be changed, i heard a rumor about more training skills coming out with the release of kali (not 100% sure if thats true as i havent really looked at what they plan to do tbh)

if that does happen it will only increase the time that people spend on training learning skills at the start. some of you may think of that as a bad thing but once you get through them your training time on other skills will be a lot less. The idea of reducing current training times does not need to be done. the way the timing on skills is set at the moment is fine and should not be changed as it would be of more use to those that have been in the game and push them to lvl's to fast

as for pvp and bs's needing a t2 tank, i could start a noob char now and within a day or 2 his ready for pvp..... frig lvl 4 and tackling.... as said before its about team work not about using t2 tanks

SmEdD
Amarr
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.05 18:02:00 - [114]
 

Edited by: SmEdD on 05/09/2006 18:03:59
Edited by: SmEdD on 05/09/2006 18:03:33
Edited by: SmEdD on 05/09/2006 18:03:17
Originally by: Tahreem
Training should not be decreased EXCEPT for the learning skills reduce that learning time a bit..

I had the impression more then once since we say to all new guys joining that best is to have adv learning skills to 4... they are not active till that is done since they can't learn much else in between if they do they loose time if they don't everything else takes much longer..

So maybe decreasing the learning skills time to let the new guys feel a bit faster usefull, they are usefull as soon they can use a miner or scramble in my opinion but not every new guy agrees on that with me..

Rest of the skills are just fine


Agreed and I see alot of people quit the game cause they start trying to get these skills but don't have anything to fly in the mean time so they just say screw it. IMO the learning skills should be removed and everyone given the right ammount of attributes for it. Without these skills I know I wouldn't be here as stuff would take WAY too long.

Yello1
Posted - 2006.09.05 18:13:00 - [115]
 

Training times are ludicrous. To say to new players "It will be weeks or months before you can participate in the primary focus of the game" is to say "we want most of you to never sub after the free trial".

Shorten the times, and make sure its retroactive (ie if you reduce times by 50% give all existing players a credit of 50% of their skill points for them to allocate into "instant" training so that old timers wont bytoch about all the time they would have wasted on the old training times.

But regardless of how, they NEED to be shortened.

And while we are at it, wtheck is up with only letting one character train at a time and only having three characters per account? 8 is the standard in the industry. Are they just trying to leverage people into having to buy multiple accounts to get anywhere?

Nanobotter Mk2
Posted - 2006.09.05 18:29:00 - [116]
 

NO, but basic learning skills, should be granted to all characters current and new at level 5

Deep Shadows
Posted - 2006.09.05 19:01:00 - [117]
 

I agree that CCP should have some specialty days...more drops, faster training...something... but I think for the most part, training times are fine....though I wish training times would be capped at a max of 30 days. After a month of watching the skill train...you just want to go insane.

Gretchen Dawntreader
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2006.09.05 19:06:00 - [118]
 

Edited by: Gretchen Dawntreader on 05/09/2006 19:17:09
There's already a way to speed your skilling, it's called the Learning branch. On advice from my starter school I spent the time to get all stat skills to advanced 4 and Learning to 5 and I'm tearing skills up now. 16.5m sp in my first 12 months, including the time spent slowly speeding up during Learning skilling.

No one can reasonably expect to fly a Dread or a Carrier in a year. Those represent the top end of ship technology and should be hard to work towards.

EDIT: I'm against the removal of the Learning skills. They are an option. Just like implant slots 1-5, they are an option. If you don't want to wear (and maybe lose and have to replace) implants, then you aren't going to benefit from the raised stats. If you aren't going to bother with the 2.5 months of 2.2m sp worth of learning skills, then you won't get the benefit of higher stats. Both are optional.

People who don't want to bother with stat-raising implants and stat-raising skills, have the option to just grab Cruiser 3 and head out guns-a-blazing. Casual gaming ftw. But if you are serious about maxxing your character, you will spend the 2.5 months and you will buy, earn or loot the implants, and that's called investing in the future. Just like RL, some people do and some people don't.

Changing it so Learning skills don't exist and just spot everyone 5 points to their stats, fine. As long as you spot the 5 points to everybody. I wouldn't mind having all 28-32. Smile Or you could give us 2.2m sp to spend as we wish if we already had the skills that are removed.


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