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blankseplocked ...DEVS...Take a step back From your game.....[ WARNING]
 
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Grimmacker
Gallente
Grimmacker Corp.
Posted - 2003.09.19 16:53:00 - [1]
 


Ok DEVS please leave your office go home fire up your copy of EVE and play for a day or two, dont sleep, do not eat , just play your own creation for a while please...

This is just common sense, Im sure you guys are great coders and know alot about your software, but have you even tried to play your own creation, have you checked up on it? Everyone knows there is no quality assurance program within CCP so step up to the plate and take the resposibility yourself, even if only for one day just play this thing...IT IS GETTING WORSE......

Somewhere there was mentioned that you divide up into teams at CCP some do new content, some fix bugs, etc, etc

Whatever team is creating new content is fouling up the original code, the team trying to fix bugs is trying to play catchup to the other dev teams. With each patch they get further and further behind.....

One last note I would be appalled to know I was a software company with no quality assurance procedures, and if so they are lacking.
Sad thing is Im still addicted..So keep up the good work....

Data Loss
Minmatar
The Unpodable Supermen
Cult of War
Posted - 2003.09.19 16:56:00 - [2]
 

you just described microsoft, quality assurance, thats what the customers are for

Daesdemona
Posted - 2003.09.19 17:06:00 - [3]
 

well microsoft has all the necessary departments and talent, they just are **** at communicating with each other.

Agent Shield
Caldari
Posted - 2003.09.19 17:21:00 - [4]
 

That really is an Excellent suggestion. Should the Devs play this game for a whole weekend, they will be prepared on Monday to fix the things that are not functioning correctly.

I find it disturbing that the little things get messed up; online/offline characters, e-mail system that worked as is, mouseovers worked before, etc... What changed in the code to make those things, go away? Weird how nobody caught this stuff.

Gigi Ana
Gallente
Posted - 2003.09.19 17:25:00 - [5]
 

Quote:
Ok DEVS please leave your office go home fire up your copy of EVE and play for a day or two, dont sleep, do not eat , just play...


Hmmm, that sounds like me ...

Hematic
Caldari
R.O.T.
Posted - 2003.09.19 17:27:00 - [6]
 

Only difference is that microsoft's code base and dev teams are on a scale of 1000 to 1 at CCP.

CCP has a single product and even it isn't as complicated/robust as win98.

The truth be told CCP has poor code management. They re-introduce bugs, more than likely by copy/pasting some crap code from an earlier build.

Get real who's bright idea was it to create a new prefs format and then not even test it? Let alone create some simple code that would populate the new file from the old one.

Indigo Seqi
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2003.09.19 17:31:00 - [7]
 

Hell I would pay CCP to go play their own game for a week!

Daesdemona
Posted - 2003.09.19 17:33:00 - [8]
 

Quote:
Hell I would pay CCP to go play their own game for a week!


like they don't already have neough of your money ... LOL

SavX
Posted - 2003.09.19 17:44:00 - [9]
 

Quote:
Quote:
Hell I would pay CCP to go play their own game for a week!


like they don't already have neough of your money ... LOL



Lol thats funny.

iconoclast
Caldari
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Posted - 2003.09.19 17:58:00 - [10]
 

Quote:
That really is an Excellent suggestion. Should the Devs play this game for a whole weekend, they will be prepared on Monday to fix the things that are not functioning correctly.

I find it disturbing that the little things get messed up; online/offline characters, e-mail system that worked as is, mouseovers worked before, etc... What changed in the code to make those things, go away? Weird how nobody caught this stuff.

wake up people... have you played many other vids before? i have seen way more heinous bugs in other games that are about 1/20th as complex as EVE. and for those to get fixed you could have to wait 3-6 months for the first update to get released, if ever. in EVE they are constantly tweaking things every week or so. if you bother to read the dev chatz you may have read about the QA issues and how they plan resolving them in the future. cut them some slack.. they are a startup company in ICELAND for christs sake... this is there first gig. they haven’t been working on software for 25 YEARS like microsoft, who is upwards around 60K employees so why compare? yep the patch has new bugs which are a little annoying. whine whine whine. feel better now? great, next week i look forward to reading all the new whining about the other new minor bugs that show up and hearing everyone’s new armchair opinions about how CCP is doing things wrong. you suck.

Lucy De
Posted - 2003.09.19 18:05:00 - [11]
 

Let's say we have 10 devs, no idea how many really, but let's say 10.

At 7.5 hours a day? 75 man hours a day. multiply that by a week, 375 hours.

That's a fair bit of time to get their collective knowledge of the workings of the game together and work on the bugs is it not?

And that is just 1 week!

In the words of David Cutler, 'let them eat their own dog food'. A good book btw...

qrac
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.09.19 18:28:00 - [12]
 

the devs DO play the game.

BLACK HORSE
Posted - 2003.09.19 19:12:00 - [13]
 

HeHe. I just replied on another forum about how I am losing my patience. Well I am but I will keep playing and paying The Devs are working hard the only criticism i can give is dont fix the stuff thats not broken before you fix the stuff that is.

If you are Minmatar and are looking for the next step in EVE join the Matari Back Bone.
www.matari.org

The Architect
Posted - 2003.09.19 19:12:00 - [14]
 

Yes, despite belief to the contrary CCP Devs do play the game. The SIGNIFICANT difference is that they have the tools to get around the bugs we can't. Rolling Eyes

Can you hear me now? GOOD! Laughing

KIPPAN
Caldari
Posted - 2003.09.19 19:27:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: KIPPAN on 19/09/2003 19:28:13
I'm a programmer. I have a big sign that I can see from my workstation. It reads:

"If you haven't tested it, it doesn't work!"

You tend to forget that sometimes, out of hybris, I think.


NeoMorph
Aggressive Faction Defence Technologies
Posted - 2003.09.19 20:00:00 - [16]
 

I played UO for over 2 years and this happened occasionally to them to..

What did they do? THEY ROLLED BACK within a few hours so that paying customers didnt have to deal with the unstable version while the coders fixed the bugs.

Now I'm pretty sure that rollbacks are a last resort but surely the level of dissatisfaction with the performance of this latest patch should be an indication of what should have been done.

As people keep saying, we are paying to beta test and this is supposed to be a production system. Can you imagine buying a car and finding that there is a problem with the steering and the company that makes them say "Oh sorry about the problem we will have it fixed in a few weeks". The customer would have the right to sue the company for supplying defective items.

Don't get me wrong, I love Eve when it works... it's just the fact that we are getting major problems with the basics of this game and nobody is telling us anything about what is going on. Communication is the key to a good community.

/rant off

Grimmacker
Gallente
Grimmacker Corp.
Posted - 2003.09.19 20:03:00 - [17]
 


Hi Neo hows that Alpha mod expander I sold u today?

DJvGalen
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2003.09.19 20:13:00 - [18]
 

I agree, this is an exellent idea. We have QA for most our software updates, we supply inhouse most software for our company's financial and information departments, we have alot of testers in our department but even with a team of dedicated testers things slip through.

But what happened this week is very unprofessional, I dunno what they did but I had only slight lag before this week patches but now I can't do anything, I either get thrown out of the game when trying to do something or I'm being blackholed for hours.

If they'd make more frequent database updates to Chaos I would log in there...

What about a weekly synchonization script that runs on friday's downtime to update the test database from the master database, big record updates like that run VERY VERY fast.

Just an idea Rolling Eyes

iconoclast
Caldari
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Posted - 2003.09.19 20:29:00 - [19]
 

Quote:
. Can you imagine buying a car and finding that there is a problem with the steering and the company that makes them say "Oh sorry about the problem we will have it fixed in a few weeks". The customer would have the right to sue the company for supplying defective items.
Ummmm. No. Wrong. I've had 4 recalls that I know about on my new Jeep to fix stuff they found that was dangerously wrong. One was a design flaw that was causing fatalities for babies in car seats. I didn't even get a letter about it, usually you read about it in the news, or they try to slip in the fixes quietly when you go in for a checkup. Think again and try again. Think about the airplane problems they find out about and have to recall whole fleets to fix after the little boo boo kills a few hundred people. I think the problems in EVE are hardly as severe or warrenting the amount of complaining. Eve is experiencing much less severe growing pains for it's complexity than many other ver. 1 software that has several years of dev time since RTM to fix problems. They just get the fixes out weekly/biweekly, which results in less stability than normal updates. Would you rather have them patch things once every 6 months so they can put out a bulletproof patch? I wouldn't...

Plasmatique
Caldari
The Subtle Knife
Chain of Chaos
Posted - 2003.09.19 21:12:00 - [20]
 

Two possible explanations..

1) They're masochists and DO play their own game...all the time

2) They're sadists and never play their own game, but like it when others play Eve.

Alexia Te'Len
Minmatar
Posted - 2003.09.19 21:41:00 - [21]
 

I don't get the bugs people complain about. Shocked

cball
Gallente
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.09.19 23:21:00 - [22]
 

Quote:
wake up people... have you played many other vids before? i have seen way more heinous bugs in other games that are about 1/20th as complex as EVE. and for those to get fixed you could have to wait 3-6 months for the first update to get released, if ever. in EVE they are constantly tweaking things every week or so. if you bother to read the dev chatz you may have read about the QA issues and how they plan resolving them in the future. cut them some slack.. they are a startup company in ICELAND for christs sake... this is there first gig. they haven’t been working on software for 25 YEARS like microsoft, who is upwards around 60K employees so why compare? yep the patch has new bugs which are a little annoying. whine whine whine. feel better now? great, next week i look forward to reading all the new whining about the other new minor bugs that show up and hearing everyone’s new armchair opinions about how CCP is doing things wrong. you suck.


---troll poster---


...sorry but sucking up won't get ya a miner2 bpc now...Cool

Denise Galen
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2003.09.19 23:25:00 - [23]
 

Quote:
I don't get the bugs people complain about. Shocked

Lucky you, I didn't get the CTD's people before this patch complained about Confused

Veruna Caseti
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2003.09.19 23:29:00 - [24]
 

Quote:
...sorry but sucking up won't get ya a miner2 bpc now...


Yes, but using this response to anyone who has positive things to say about CCP sure will get you made fun of by me. You are worthless cball. =)

That said... this suggestion is "cute" but I'm afraid just knowing what doesn't work isn't nearly enough to fix it. There's a big difference between seeing the affect a bug has on the software, and seeing WHERE the bug is IN the software (let alone fixing it).

The only thing CCP playing EVE for a week would get us is a week without any work done. =)

Intruders
Posted - 2003.09.19 23:38:00 - [25]
 

Quote:
Alexia Te'Len

I don't get the bugs people complain about.


But the game is nearly unplayable two days now, everyone gets reduced framerates and memory leak to say the least. You sure you dont have those problems?

agrizla
Posted - 2003.09.19 23:54:00 - [26]
 

Quote:
well microsoft has all the necessary departments and talent, they just are **** at communicating with each other.


MS are actually very good at communication. What people forget (and I'm not a MS fanboy) is that the OS is meant to target the average user. Yep it has loads of security holes - does the average user give a damn? No. Well maybe a little more recently (hence MS's more pro-active bug fixing stance).

You're comparing apples with oranges here - a company that expects people to pay a monthly sub should in fact be a hell of a lot more reactive than a company that basically bundles a product with hardware.

You never cease to amaze me with your cluelessness Daesdemona Rolling Eyes

Jojin
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2003.09.20 00:05:00 - [27]
 

I have seen a lot of rants about how unplayable the game is and how it is ‘broken’. While I am sure these posts are not unfounded, it does little good if they are generic and don’t have adequate data to back up the problems.

For instance, the last patch may have introduced some technical issues, but not everyone seems to be affected in the same way or at all. This would give the impression the problem is not solely one of the program, but one of the program interacting with a client. When you throw a client into the mix, it becomes a nightmare to even attempt to figure out what the problem is when you do not have the appropriate information. If you want just complain because you are unhappy, I guess it is your right. However, it will do little to actually help correct the situation. To help, try submitting a bug report. If this is to much to ask or you believe you should not have to De-Bug a retail program, then please choose to discontinue playing or remain silent and stop ruining the experience for others who may actually be enjoying themselves.

In regards to game balance, again if you believe there is an issue post the issue and what has lead you to such a belief. Ranting about things being broken or ‘nerfed’ does very little to describe the problem and may be translated as being nothing more than a generic complaint because something you relied on for play has been changed.

ShockedACK! See now you got me ranting. I will get off my little box now. I just want to the forums to go back to being a good tool for communications and information. Now I think of them as the Forums who cried Wolf.


Veruna Caseti
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2003.09.20 00:16:00 - [28]
 

Quote:
But the game is nearly unplayable two days now.


The only thing stopping me from playing the last two days has been Hurricane Isabel.

I see no reduction in framerates, and the memory leaks are no worse after patch than they were before.

The only problems I have noticed since patch are glitches in the UI (displaying empty player lists where there should be players, mouse overs, etc.).

Personally I think all this "hype" is just a bad reaction to a few asthetic glitches that have been introduced. I don't seen the "crippling" bugs that everyone claims have appeared, and I haven't talked to anyone in game who experiences them either.

agrizla
Posted - 2003.09.20 00:19:00 - [29]
 

No offence but have you tried submiiting a bug report Jojin? I'm sure there are quite literally hundreds of people who have and ermmm it doesn't get fixed. Want to have a bet how many people have submitted bug reports on the buddy list over the last 2 months? Wink

agrizla
Posted - 2003.09.20 00:21:00 - [30]
 

Veruna if you think that not seeing who is in local is an aesthetic glitch for players then you are seriously deranged Neutral


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