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Sidus
Posted - 2003.09.11 00:34:00 - [61]
 

So just pop their cans... Camp out and steel their ore... Let them mine for you... Stop *****ing... If someone dropped a box of money on your doorstep every morning would you call the cops and ask them to make it stop? You said it yourself, you are an ore thief... Apparently you aren't a very intelligent one or you would just steal the ore and be happy...

Out of 11 sec status there are 2 that are practical to AFK/MACRO mine in. Even factoring in the danger level of .4 and below systems that is still a tiny fraction of the belts in the game.

I know that on the rare occasion I go mine in a secure system I have no problems finding ore. Here, I'll even clue you in... Elgoi has scordite roids the size of small moons, 70K on average... And you will have a hard time even running into another miner there. I have had more problems with strip miners in battleships than anyone AFK/MACRO mining... So what, should I whine that people in battleships suck?

If you don't like the game, don't play it.

Simple.

I hear Star Wars Galaxies is wicked easy to play. Maybe you would have more fun there. I think they even have a Yoda fan club. You could get a backpack for school!

Damaclease
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2003.09.11 00:43:00 - [62]
 

lifewire your a griefer nothing more nothing less.
Yes i hate people macroing too but your point on stealing is just griefing. Do as Ana says if you have such a problem with it.
but don't just whine about it on the forums
.

Ana Khouri
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.09.11 01:16:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: Ana Khouri on 11/09/2003 01:26:10
I must disaggree here with you, Dama. Even if Lifewire is podding newbs for fun and eating little minmatar babies for breakfest it doesn't makes his complaint invalid.

At least he was honest - he could as well written that he's in a small mining corp.

@Sidus:
Do us a favour and creep back under the stone came from. Imagine, some people will argue against things which they find wrong personally, even if changing them will actually hurt them.

As said, using macros is against the ruels, *cheating*, and will give people who use them an unfair advantage. How would you feel as trader if someone writes & uses a macro which makes buyorders 1 sec before the server goes down?

(Luckily not possible, since the server doesn't goes down at exactly the same time each day, but I think you get my meaning)

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2003.09.11 01:32:00 - [64]
 

The sky is falling the sky is falling ! :)

Zores
Gallente
Grief Inc.
Posted - 2003.09.11 02:26:00 - [65]
 

Quote:
- ore is dropped in single stacks in the containers.


This is absurd, it is perfectly possible that someone that is not AFK would stack their ore as well.

Tabius
Gallente
ClanZero Corp
Posted - 2003.09.11 05:34:00 - [66]
 

I don't need a macro, I have my wife take over while I use the bathroom....

of course, it'd be pretty funny if an ore thief came then.... I could see my wife tell me...

"this pretty ship came up and bumped into that silver spinning thing, then it went away... it was really pretty... what? I don't know where you're ore is, I just dropped that square over there on top of this square over here..."

geeze.... maybe a wife-macro isn't such a good idea...Shocked


Vidar Kentoran
Minmatar
Eighty Joule Brewery
Posted - 2003.09.11 06:57:00 - [67]
 

My Big Fat **** could destroy eve!

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2003.09.11 07:19:00 - [68]
 

AAaaaAaahhh Lamer posts on the forums are driving all the oldtimers from eve ! AaAaAahahhhhhh Help Help Help Help Help CCP will be out of money within hours ! We need more carebears !

I know.. it's all m0o's fault I bet they put cargo canisters in front of all the carebears so Eve is as good as dead... Ya and drones too .. Everything's an exploit ! Ya and all those people mining pyroxeres and scordite will take all the minerals and make everybody else bankrupt with their über 250k / hour profit !

Lifewire
TunDraGon
Posted - 2003.09.11 07:59:00 - [69]
 

I have no problems with players killing other players for fun, or stealing my ore - its part of the game. A macro is a programm outside the game, a cheat. While the fair player makes 2 mio ISK mining with his Thorax 2 hours a day, the macro-cheater lets his ship make ore for 23 h and makes 23 mio!!! Later if these 2 player-types fight each other there is no question who has an advantage.

I call all fair players to work togehter to kill macrocheaters. Lets create a macro-cheater-killing-alliance Very Happy, they are easy targets and deserve to be killed while they use the macro.

DJvGalen
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2003.09.11 08:43:00 - [70]
 

Quote:
Guys,

I could painstakingly search through the forums for the post by a member of TTI who explained how to use macros to increase efficiency but I can't be bothered.

In that post a member of Polaris confirmed using macros to mine is breaking the EULA because the macro will speed up the gain of ore as it records the same mouse movements repeatedly.

I'll try to find the link & quote.

make mining easier
Quote:
Edited by: Diaego on 25/08/2003 10:21:58
This may have already been posted, by I'm not going to look through 4 pages which are probably 90% flames :)

Please review section 7A, paragraph 3 of the End User Licence agreement:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(3) You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Macros DO let you mine at an accelerated rate than not using Macros. Because its automated, you can transfer cargo that little bit quicker. Also you are most likely AFK or watching TV meaning you wouldn't be able to mine, but with a Macro you can, meaning you can mine longer (In most cases)

Anyone found doing so will have action taken against them as per the EULA.

Diaego

Assistant Team Leader
Polaris Player Support


Quote:

Right, now that we have an answer, that it is indeed agaisnt the EULA and steps will be taken, I feel I can safely lock this thread.

Thanks for the answer, Diaego.

- Orestes


I believe that was what Joshua was looking to quote.

Lifewire
TunDraGon
Posted - 2003.09.11 09:21:00 - [71]
 

Quote:
Right, now that we have an answer, that it is indeed agaisnt the EULA and steps will be taken, I feel I can safely lock this thread.

Thanks for the answer, Diaego.

- Orestes


Yes, we have an answer - but what is done against macrocheaters? Nothing! Itīs so easy to find them but it seems GM fear to loose paying players...

Sidus
Posted - 2003.09.11 16:19:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Sidus on 11/09/2003 16:21:55
Well Ana Khouri. As you were aparently too high centered on your moral mountain to notice, I am a miner, that whole part about Mining wing Captain and such. I know it is a tough connection to make and all. And my point, which I will state one last time just in case you are more than a chronic forum troll, is that people behaving in this manner consume such a tiny amount of ore that taking game wide action against them would be a cure that is far worse than the disease. So, having said that, I will go crawl back into my rancid slime infested meat cavern and you can return to your crystal palace on high.

I bid you good day.

Edit: And yes, I do believe that Vidar's Big Fat **** is far more destructive than macro mining. Oh, and no, I don not use a macro to mine.

Georg
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2003.09.11 16:31:00 - [73]
 

Quote:
Just look into containers...when fair players mine, there is 1 big stack. Macros-cheaters have 20 stacks with same amount for example.


Just as a point to note, multi-stacks can happen legitimately if you are using a container dropped by another player or your own alt. For some reason it won't allow separate drops by the non-dropping player to stack and so you end up with several stacks corresponding to each drop into the container. The dropping player or alt can still then stack these together into one stack.

Kalhan
Amarr
Omega Engineering Inc.
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2003.09.11 16:45:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Kalhan on 11/09/2003 16:48:07
Hi....

I usaully post on ore thiefs not because I am one but because I think they are a valid profession allowed by EVE. I have some suggestions most of you have already read these ideas but here it goes.

Beside I can't seem to find any other good threads.

I have edited most of my posts to take out the words "carebear" and "nerf" let me know if I missed any.

Kalhan
Amarr
Omega Engineering Inc.
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2003.09.11 16:46:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Kalhan on 11/09/2003 16:49:37
Here is what I think.

AFK miners and Macro miners should be Slowed as well(like all the other professions). To show them how to get really earn there money and go out in the rest of the world. Ore Thiefs right now are the only means of doing this.

I see only the AFK miners and Macro miners crying about this anyway.

Newbs too but I don't think you should be able to steal from them.

I can see if the can is sitting right next to you when they come and steal ore as a hostile act. But if they were to impliment an idea like this I would make it so that as soon as you leave the belt and the can is no longer owned by you. That would fix the problem.

Or make it so Cops come and kill the thief only for players that are less then a week old.

CCP can't make everyone happy. If they totally kill Ore thiefs abilities. Other people will start whinning that AFK miners have it way to easy.

No if this Idea happened in game with no nerfing of the AFK/baby miners as well. I would start a petition agianst it, and would have alot of support. More so then the abillity to kill ore thiefs in 1.0 space.

If you want to kill ore thiefs then go to .4 and below otherwise buy secure cans.

If they really wanted to get rid of ore thiefs they would have made secure contains bottomless or expandable with how much ore you put in it. But they don't. Why, because of AFK/Carebear miners.

It would have been too easy to kill off that profession al long time ago. But EVE says you can become anything you want.

If they want to slow that profession more. Then they should raise the the ability for Pirates(Neg sec rating players) to come into empire space and put in less cops. Or lower the amount of ore in empire space, make it real easy for a belt to disapear from over mining, so easy that it forces players to go out further.

Or make it so players over a month are not alowed to enter .8 and above belts.

Or Keep it the way it is.

I have seen Battleships in .8 systems striping belts clean leaving nothing for newb miners.

If you notice everyone goes to those systems to mine veld and other easy ore and then go out further and just mine the rest. They should go back to the old way of refilling the roid.

If you got to the .8 systems and above there is hardly any ore. I fyou go to the .2 belts for jaspet there is hardly any jaspet, Kernite, omber ect... and HUGE Veld and Scorite roids. So big you cann't even get close enough to mine them!!!

They slow Fighters. They slow Pirates. They slow PvP. I think they should slow Miners.

I heard a about a hacking skill that would allow you to hack into a secure can. That totally contradics what this poster is saying.

I say go ahead and allow this to happen. Then you will so pirates in Battleships coming in to steal your ore, go ahead and fire on them then. They would do it becuase they want your ore, but to start a fight so they can kill you for free.

I am not against AFK Miners that are newbies. I am against afk miners that are striping the belts in newb land.

I have another Char(unnamed) that ore steals. I don't REPEAT don't steal from the newby players. I see a guy in a Thorax mining with an unsecure can next to him. I go up and steal from it. And if they make that skill to allow players to hack secure cans I will make sure he gets that one too.

Kalhan
Amarr
Omega Engineering Inc.
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2003.09.11 16:47:00 - [76]
 

every other profession in eve has been slowed("nerfed") in some way except miners.

AFK, macro, and baby Miners need to be "slowed down as well"

Here are more suggestions.

I think they should make it so some ships can't belts depending on the sys sec rating.

Ex. only frigates(no indies, Crusiers, Battleships or Titians) would be able to enter .9 and 1.0 belts. And Battleships would not be able to enter .5 and above belts.

Also only newbs should be able to mine in .9 and 1.0 space. They could do this by either skill or time(Char age) ingame.

It would be easy to RP these examples. I know many places where Trucks are not alowed in parts of the city or to drive on some roads.

This would force players to move and progress in the game. Making them go out into the rest of the Eve world and experience everything, so people can't say that eve is boring and all people do is mine.

This is because everyone AFK mines or baby mines the easy minerals in high space and takes all the rare minerals in low space. And as you know they made it so when you mine a roid somewhere else another roid is growing and if nobody mine the common or out in the low sec which ones do you think are the roids growing???

They have already made so many changes that go against there so call philsophies to let everyone do want they want, because of the philsophy of ballance. ex. people with a neg rating are forced to live outside of empire space.

Better yet they should make jetting something what it really should be.

When you jet something is would be destroy, because you are throwing it away.

I think my Ideas help newbies and promote players expanding beyond empire space.

I don't believe AFK miners are "raking in the isk". It is kinda slow just mining those easy minerals to make money.

I think .8 and above arn't ment for experinces players.

Just as players with a neg rating aren't ment for .5 and up.

Also if players move out towords .4 space and below. They can shoot ore theives and stop whinning about it.

While I don't think newbs should be able to get there ore stolen... if you are mining in a BS or Crusier in .5 and above especially 1.0. You put yourself at risk.

Keep ore thieves ingame. Maybe even have some chars that steal from the rich BSs mining in .8 and up and dump the ore in the poor newb's can. A sort of Robin hood char.

Daesdemona
Posted - 2003.09.11 16:48:00 - [77]
 

Quote:
My Big Fat **** could destroy eve!


yes, as the eve world and your **** share one characteristic, they are immaginary.

Rolling Eyes

Kalhan
Amarr
Omega Engineering Inc.
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2003.09.11 16:50:00 - [78]
 

Also it seems that soon you will have to have a skill to make secure containers secure.

Daesdemona
Posted - 2003.09.11 16:54:00 - [79]
 

Quote:
Also it seems that soon you will have to have a skill to make secure containers secure.

you mean unsecure right? you talking about hacking?

Kalhan
Amarr
Omega Engineering Inc.
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2003.09.11 16:55:00 - [80]
 

Quote:
Quote:
Also it seems that soon you will have to have a skill to make secure containers secure.

you mean unsecure right? you talking about hacking?


Nope... you will need the "ancoring"(I can't spell) skill to make a secure can secure.

Veruna Caseti
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2003.09.11 17:42:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Veruna Caseti on 11/09/2003 17:43:49
Edited by: Veruna Caseti on 11/09/2003 17:42:48
Kalhan I think all of your ideas were pretty well defeated in the other thread in which you said exactly the same things. Go there and re-read them for a "response" to this post.

In short - let people play the way they want. You're trying to convince everyone AFK mining is destroying EVE but the fact is you can point out no major problems caused by this "syndrome" which actually exist in the game.

As far as people "not leaving anything for newbies" well that's just crap. The only thing a newbie has to do to find ore is move to a new 1.0 or 0.9 system other than the one they started in. There are asteroids the size of moons in hundreds of high security systems out there ripe for the picking and no amount of "strip mining" by these AFK/Carebear (as you call them) miners is going to leave all of these systems stripped bear. Even if they did start trying, by the time they finished the roids they had started on would have regrown since common ores regrow at such a rapid pace.

There are plenty of common ores to go around for EVERYONE including AFK miners. That's the reason they are called COMMON ORES. The only thing your "solutions" will do is introduce more serious problems.

You want to implement all these complex solutions to solve a problem that simply isn't a problem to begin with.

Kalhan
Amarr
Omega Engineering Inc.
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2003.09.11 17:53:00 - [82]
 

Quote:
Edited by: Veruna Caseti on 11/09/2003 17:43:49
Edited by: Veruna Caseti on 11/09/2003 17:42:48
Kalhan I think all of your ideas were pretty well defeated in the other thread in which you said exactly the same things. Go there and re-read them for a "response" to this post.

In short - let people play the way they want. You're trying to convince everyone AFK mining is destroying EVE but the fact is you can point out no major problems caused by this "syndrome" which actually exist in the game.

As far as people "not leaving anything for newbies" well that's just crap. The only thing a newbie has to do to find ore is move to a new 1.0 or 0.9 system other than the one they started in. There are asteroids the size of moons in hundreds of high security systems out there ripe for the picking and no amount of "strip mining" by these AFK/Carebear (as you call them) miners is going to leave all of these systems stripped bear. Even if they did start trying, by the time they finished the roids they had started on would have regrown since common ores regrow at such a rapid pace.

There are plenty of common ores to go around for EVERYONE including AFK miners. That's the reason they are called COMMON ORES. The only thing your "solutions" will do is introduce more serious problems.

You want to implement all these complex solutions to solve a problem that simply isn't a problem to begin with.


Now there you go. That was a very good post. Nobody in the other threads said anyting liek that. They just Said I don't like it or I think it sucks. Some of them made valid points and others didn't.

I am not tring to make people play the way I want the to nor did I say AFK mining is destroying EVE.

I think they would be a good IDEA to help the market and newbie. And while now of my Ideas support ore thieves(except for making it so they can't steal from players young then a certion age, "newb") I feel they are a valid profession that eve allows. And that was my biggest point which kinda got lost.

I don't see how they would cause serious problems.

Veruna Caseti
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2003.09.11 18:05:00 - [83]
 

Quote:
I don't see how they would cause serious problems.


It just seems like some of your solutions are trying to prevent people with larger ships or more time in the game from mining in safe systems.

Fact is, not everyone in a Cruiser is prepared to meet the rigors of low-security space. I for one fly a Cruiser totally for mining purposes alone. If I was "forced" to leave empire space I would lose my ship in a matter of minutes as I am not equipped for offense, defense, or evasion.

Some people with a lot of time in game would still like to occasionally enjoy the quiet comfort of 0.9-1.0 systems while they eat dinner, watch some TV or surf the web. I don't see anything wrong with this personally.

Kalhan
Amarr
Omega Engineering Inc.
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2003.09.11 18:09:00 - [84]
 

Edited by: Kalhan on 11/09/2003 18:09:59
Quote:
Fact is, not everyone in a Cruiser is prepared to meet the rigors of low-security space. I for one fly a Cruiser totally for mining purposes alone. If I was "forced" to leave empire space I would lose my ship in a matter of minutes as I am not equipped for offense, defense, or evasion.



woah... hwere did you get that from. I don't think cruiser should be "force"(which isn't a good word) of whole empire space.

If you read you will see that there are lvls. Cruiser would be able to mine in .9 and up. but they could in .5 - .8 and Battle ships wouldn't be ablt to mine in .5 and up but could in .0 - .4. And these are for the belts only. Kinda like how big rig trucks can't drive or go into some places or roads in a city.

Quote:
Some people with a lot of time in game would still like to occasionally enjoy the quiet comfort of 0.9-1.0 systems while they eat dinner, watch some TV or surf the web. I don't see anything wrong with this personally.


and they still woule just in a frigate.

Jethro
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.09.11 18:26:00 - [85]
 

Quote:
I fail to see why you are so bent on treating such a benevolent act with such harshness. CCP needs to add an in game macro or make mining a f02king awesome event for the amount of time it takes to fill a cargo hold and make a little cash.

I am not endorsing EULA violations but I am also do not endorse wistle blowers either.


Are you nuts, if a large number of players in game get a hold of these new macros it will cause uncontrolable inflation in the economy of EVE. It's for the same reason that conterfit money is illegal in most industrialized nations of the world. If people were just allowed to make money, the currency of the country (or game in this case) would eventually be worth nothing.

This has happened to an mmorpg before. For instance Diablo II (Correcting me if i'm wrong though) There was a duplication bug that enabled players to duplicate items as many times as they wished. Even though mining marcos aren't as potent as duplication bugs, they still have the potential to throw off the balance of the game and ruin EVE online.

What I'm ultimatly trying to say is this small macro problem should not be ingored. If it does turn into a big problem it will effect everyone, even players that have tunnel vision who are to ingorant to see that mining was meant to be a cumbersome process in order to give vaule to the individual ISK.

Grimmacker
Gallente
Grimmacker Corp.
Posted - 2003.09.11 18:53:00 - [86]
 


Sorry to say but this will fall on deaf ears , nothing will be done about it until CCP realizes theirs only 100 players online...." OH look we better fix it" will be the typical scenario.

Castagan
Posted - 2003.09.11 20:20:00 - [87]
 

Can we have a minor clarification of 'AFK Mining'? AFK doesn't mean you're using a macro. It just means you are "Away From Keyboard". SO, to cozy up along side a hunk of rock in your indy, target it and activate a mining laser, and go eat my dinner makes me a bad person or a cheater??? STFU, and more over grow up ya big babies. I am in no way condoning the use of Macros. But just because I do not wish to sit there and babysit the mining of an asteroid for 45 minutes, in no way violates any EULA agreements or should open me up to being rammed by other players. If you want to go on a crusade, go after the player character player killers that podded me twice for no reason last week while hauling ores. Now THAT is a crime! Mad

Castagan


DJvGalen
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2003.09.11 20:30:00 - [88]
 

AFK mining usually means parking your indy near a big rock and go to work/sleep/watch movie/whatever...

But now comes someone who is AFK Macro mining, he parks his Apoc with 8 miner 2's near a asteroid, uses the macro thingy to automate his stripmining and starts it and goes AFK.

I have no problem with AFK miners, AFK macro miners should be banned instantly because they who do it will do it again if given the chance, cheaters always do.

Lifewire
TunDraGon
Posted - 2003.09.11 21:50:00 - [89]
 

Macro-using and selling the ISK made by a cheat on Ebay inst just a gag. Itīs not CS where aimbots can be used and nothing happens. Real cash is payed for the game to CCP and real cash is payed for ISK on Ebay. Real police could be interested in that. A Thorax mining 23 h a day with a macro makes roundabout 23 mio ISK a day. 690 mio ISK in a month and sold on Ebay price 4 $ for 1 mio ISK, people make a lot of $ by betraying fair players and CCP! They can do heavy damage to the game-balancing.

Real police isnt interested in Ore thiefs Very Happy

Sidus
Posted - 2003.09.11 22:17:00 - [90]
 

I sat here typing up this huge question and then I thought about it... And decided the whole argument was ******ed. So I deleted it...
Have fun.


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