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Grimwalius d'Antan
Gallente
Posted - 2006.01.18 23:23:00 - [1]
 

Everyone says "don't fit a scrambler on a stealth bomber, if you're in scrambler range you're dead". I used to agree. This is true, at least if you fly the manticore that has no reason to go in close. The turret bonuses on the other bombers has had me a bit confused though. I used to think they were not thought through, and that it was something that would "be fixed" in the future. Ignoring the guns on the other bombers however makes them totally worthless compared to the manticore, everyone agrees on that. To use these bonuses you have to go in close, which everyone agrees is not a good thing given how poorly the stealth bombers can deal with incoming fire.

Now, some may argue that if you wanna fly stealth bombers, you should train caldari frig 5 to get the manticore if you wanna use Stealth bombers properly. I however, like to use things improperly. I like using sniper rifles indoor in games like Hitman Contracts. I like to play Quake 3 without a crosshair. I like fitting scramblers, webs and blasters on my Nemesis.

Fast forward a few hours. Im running 2 cruise missile launchers, 2 neutron blasters, improved cloak, web, 7.5km scrambler (strength 2 in case you didn't know). I've been scanning for targets in a crowded 0.2 system for about 15 minutes when I finally home in on a Celestis. I have no idea who the pilot is at this point, but I take my chances and warp in at 15km. Im greeted by the pleasurable noise of heavy missiles and 250mm railguns pounding NPC cruisers, but to my dispair I land 30km away from the Celestis. I figure "ah what the hell, it is worth a try", and I cloak. Amazingly, the guy continues NPCing as if he never saw me warp in. I crawl towards him, cloaked. A few minutes later, Im 5km away from him so I prime my weapons and tackling gear. As I uncloak, I quickly lock him and find that he has more than 75% shields. Some 3 volleys later or so, he is in a pod.

From now on, I'll never take anyone's advice again: Stealth Bombers are incredibly fun to fly, especially if you leave the long range/manticore bandwagon. Sure, you can't warp in and pwn anyone unless you go in at a distance unless you're in a 3 launcher manticore, but creeping up on someone with short range weapons (and ACTUALLY USING THE CLOAK) was one of the most pleasing hunts I've ever attempted. Thanks, Mr.Target. I hope you didn't crap your pants too hard. Im off to put myself in someone elses's kill rights now using the same approach.

Is there anyone else who'd like to admit they use their non-manticores in close range combat?

Gronsak
Amarr
Posted - 2006.01.18 23:28:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Gronsak on 18/01/2006 23:29:07
i do its fun like u say.


but i tend to fit some sort of EW to the ship to go along with it.


BTW 95% of posts on forums are bull**** from those that know nothing, so dont read into them deeply and base ur play on them.

KilROCK
Minmatar
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
Deus Ex.
Posted - 2006.01.18 23:30:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: KilROCK on 18/01/2006 23:30:29
Try waiting in a populated low sec where piwates usually hang, just cloak in a belt and watch till a fight comes up lol

Oh and Hound with 280mm II does ALOT of burst damage..


Liet Traep
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.01.19 00:20:00 - [4]
 

I used a manticore with a heavy shield tank in up close combat. made 3 inties run away screaming. Until ran into an ac claw. bombers can be nasty if you set them up right. You can dogfight with them.

Ghoest
Posted - 2006.01.19 00:26:00 - [5]
 

If your going in close why not just fit a cover ops cloak on a normal cruiser.

Ghoest
Posted - 2006.01.19 00:26:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Ghoest on 19/01/2006 00:26:26
double

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2006.01.19 00:35:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
If your going in close why not just fit a cover ops cloak on a normal cruiser.

Umm.. Because you can't? They're limited to covert ops ships.

Slink Grinsdikild
Brotherhood of Wolves
Astral Wolves
Posted - 2006.01.19 00:44:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Slink Grinsdikild on 19/01/2006 00:56:22
How come there is no proper fraps of post-RMR Bombers solo'ing yet? Someone with leet bomber skills go make one, pretty please? Cool

Also what do you fit in lowslots for short range? Not like you can tank it against interceptors.. repper would be useless. With 1x +11 MAPC and 1x +10 MAPC you can just about squeeze a 400mm rolled tungsten in a Hound, together with 2x AC's 1 Sensor Booster II, 2 webbers (or 1 web/1 scrambler) and named Cruise Launchers. Wink

Grimwalius d'Antan
Gallente
Posted - 2006.01.19 00:47:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
If your going in close why not just fit a cover ops cloak on a normal cruiser.

Covert ops cloak does not fit on anything but the Covert Ops ships. This excludes Stealth Bombers though. However, the stealth bombers has bonuses that reduces the speed penalty (and actually reverse it into a bonus with sufficient skills), as well as removing the recalibration time from the cloak. Fitting a regular cloak on a cruiser would result in: Extremely low speed while cloaked, battleship sized signature resolution, waaaaay too long recalibration times. My tactic involves sneaking in cloaked mode, which requires high speed, and must therefore not have gimped max speed when cloaked. The attack must happen almost instantly after decloaking, which cannot be done with a recalibration period.

Imode
Celestial Apocalypse
The Requiem
Posted - 2006.01.19 01:10:00 - [10]
 

That's all fine and dandy if you're ganking some poor unsuspecting NPC'er, but its gonna get you extremely dead against someone ready to fight-- especially if the target cruisers are in the usual plate + frigate guns + tank.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2006.01.19 01:57:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 19/01/2006 01:58:02
Originally by: Imode
That's all fine and dandy if you're ganking some poor unsuspecting NPC'er, but its gonna get you extremely dead against someone ready to fight-- especially if the target cruisers are in the usual plate + frigate guns + tank.


That fitting is not as common as it used to be post RMR.

And if you choose to jam, it won't help them anyway.

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.01.19 10:07:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan

Is there anyone else who'd like to admit they use their non-manticores in close range combat?


Not yet, but I've been having similar thoughts while looking at the "useless" gun slots on my crappy Nemesis and not-so-crappy Purifier. Thanks for verification that something like this can work, with some patience and luck. Methinks I'll have to go hunt some pirate-wabbits now...

ArchenTheGreat
Caldari
Pulsar Nebulah
Army of Lovers.
Posted - 2006.01.19 13:32:00 - [13]
 

Anyone of you with close range setup have the way to fit Nemesis without using MAPC?

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.01.19 13:38:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: ArchenTheGreat
Anyone of you with close range setup have the way to fit Nemesis without using MAPC?


Sorry, no. The crappy grid is the main reasons why Nemesis sucks, in general. You pretty much have to use one of lows for a MAPC. Purifier is much, much nicer in this regard.

Grimwalius d'Antan
Gallente
Posted - 2006.01.19 16:03:00 - [15]
 

I use two MAPCs. Yeah, risky. Havn't lost mine yet though, so I assume it works.

Harlequinn
Caldari
Confederation of Red Moon
Red Moon Federation
Posted - 2006.01.19 19:37:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Harlequinn on 19/01/2006 19:37:54
Here, here Grimwalius!!

Scrambler on the bomber 4TW!!

Up close is the only way to use the bomber!

Pretty ballsy to use it on a cruiser though and to reamain uncloaked. With sensor boosters, you can cloak/boost/fire/re-cloak when your close enough. I think that's how I would approach a cruiser, well if he was ratting I guess I would do like you did.

The combination of a 20km scrambler, sensor boosters and the short range bomber gank can happen so fast it can gank alinged shuttles right after coming out of cloak, and even get the pod. It's absolutley fantastic on frigates and zero velocity intys but it gets a bit risky though on tanked AF's though, and cruisers will probably be able to tank enough damage and kill you depending on fitting.

I keep getting told I'm crazy for fighting at the ranges I do in a bomber. Last night I decloaked less than 40km from a twelve ship gate camp to try and hit their uncloaked Helios while he anchored their bubbles. I dropped my cloak, boosted, fired, went to re-cloak... and couldn't..
ugh
... the worst thing had happened, a remote boosted AF had locked me.

Wasn't a problem though, even though I didn't get the helios Sad I got away.

ALWAYS align before you decloak.

EDIT: Oh, but I fly a manticore... Can fly a hound too, but haven't in combat. I just love the Kessie.

Goberth Ludwig
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.01.19 20:25:00 - [17]
 

Not sure... most cruisers that are not total noobs will field a web+mwd and then your dead.

I used to try taking on battleships by approaching cloaked till 20km scrambler range then bombing them but everytime I had to run off fast because the drones where tearing me apart.

Also the damage output is nto exciting so the toughest npcers will be able to tank you for ages anyway... tbh only really godo thing about bombers is either large gangs or camping cloaked outside stations waiting for weak targets undocking:
since they see nobody on oevrview they will try to warp off so you can shoot them before the timer to redock elapses

(works on covert ops, af *risky* and haulers)

Royaldo
Gallente
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch.
Sev3rance
Posted - 2006.01.19 21:35:00 - [18]
 

weee you porked a noob in a wrongly setup cruiser. good for you.

Nomen Nescio
Posted - 2006.01.19 22:42:00 - [19]
 

I have a very stupid question which should probably be punishable by ban or something like 2 months of mining, but

What if you dont put cruiser launchers of nemesis

(I can see stones hit my poor head)

Lets assume that nemesis is going close range, we put

  • Neutron blasters

  • Rocket launchers

  • Passive targeter, sensor dumpers

  • Web, scram



Main idea is to free grid from cruise launchers since range advantage of cruises wont be needed, also since one volley wont make a difference dps is main issue, not damage per volley, so maybe just maybe (and I'm total uber missile noob). maybe rocket launchers will outdamage the curises. Especially with tech2 rockets which should be both cheap to use and easy to traing for.

If case of long range inty trying to engage you outside rocket range you use dumpers which basicaly puts any inty locking range under 10km so you cloak.

If big ships are after you cloak before they lock you, then you align to to warp and then you uncloak to get away.

In assault mode you do exactly as original poster said. You get to point blank range under cloak, then you passive lock target (no lock in return yet) then you dump him (his resolution goes down) which gives you time to deal damage even before his lock, and you just fire all you got point blank hoping he will panic at first and then do some wrong stuff and then hopefuly he will blow up.

How about that? The questions would be:


  • I duno anything about missiles and covert bobmers, how much grid and cpu do the cruise launcher take on them?

  • Can some missile user provide dps comparision of rocket launchers II against curiser launchers?

  • I dont have stats of nemesis at the time, does it have any damage bonus to all missiles or cruiser missile damage only?





KilROCK
Minmatar
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
Deus Ex.
Posted - 2006.01.19 23:11:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Nomen Nescio
bunch of crap


I got a ship for you if you want to use the nemesis like that, It's called a FREAKING tristan.


Nomen Nescio
Posted - 2006.01.20 00:07:00 - [21]
 

Well tristan can't target instantly right after uncloaking or move at decent speed with a cloak.

I mean since its about fun anyway, why not. Because there is no any significant advantage of a bomber in real combat. A taranis could juts mwd to the target and blow it up much faster then any nemesis.

Its all non practical anyway, so why not?

Aktar
Posted - 2006.01.20 00:15:00 - [22]
 

An instalock Crow, Stilleto or Taranis will pwn any Stealth Bomber. Heck even a well quipped Maller or Rupture will eat it for breakfast.

SBs are meant for quick hit and run not close range. They are meant to terrorize and scare away campers and weaker ships. That is their intended role, anything else is pure luck. EVE > Luck

The moment a Crow instalocks you and webs you, hopefully your cloning facility is near a good shipyard. Very Happy

keepiru
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2006.01.20 00:22:00 - [23]
 

Yeah, getting tired of hearing "the only good bomber is the manticore".

Cant wait to get some fun times in my purifier, soon as i can figure out a nice setup for it... what did you have in your 3rd mid?

With the PG ive got i only need 1 MAPC...

Brute Helmet
Minmatar
Posted - 2006.01.20 09:55:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Nomen Nescio
I have a very stupid question which should probably be punishable by ban or something like 2 months of mining, but

What if you dont put cruiser launchers of nemesis

(I can see stones hit my poor head)

Lets assume that nemesis is going close range, we put

  • Neutron blasters

  • Rocket launchers

  • Passive targeter, sensor dumpers

  • Web, scram



Main idea is to free grid from cruise launchers since range advantage of cruises wont be needed, also since one volley wont make a difference dps is main issue, not damage per volley, so maybe just maybe (and I'm total uber missile noob). maybe rocket launchers will outdamage the curises. Especially with tech2 rockets which should be both cheap to use and easy to traing for.

If case of long range inty trying to engage you outside rocket range you use dumpers which basicaly puts any inty locking range under 10km so you cloak.

If big ships are after you cloak before they lock you, then you align to to warp and then you uncloak to get away.

In assault mode you do exactly as original poster said. You get to point blank range under cloak, then you passive lock target (no lock in return yet) then you dump him (his resolution goes down) which gives you time to deal damage even before his lock, and you just fire all you got point blank hoping he will panic at first and then do some wrong stuff and then hopefuly he will blow up.

How about that? The questions would be:


  • I duno anything about missiles and covert bobmers, how much grid and cpu do the cruise launcher take on them?

  • Can some missile user provide dps comparision of rocket launchers II against curiser launchers?

  • I dont have stats of nemesis at the time, does it have any damage bonus to all missiles or cruiser missile damage only?







Rocket DPS is nice, but nowhere near what you can get from high cruise missile skills. I can hit for just below 500 per Devastator missile on armor with my Hound. No rockets can beat that volleydamage. With Fury Devastators the damage should be closer to 600 per missile, without BCU:s.

Using rockets also removes your tactical flexibility, choosing the range of an engagement is no longer an option.

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2006.01.20 10:12:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Brute Helmet
Rocket DPS is nice, but nowhere near what you can get from high cruise missile skills. I can hit for just below 500 per Devastator missile on armor with my Hound. No rockets can beat that volleydamage. With Fury Devastators the damage should be closer to 600 per missile, without BCU:s.

Using rockets also removes your tactical flexibility, choosing the range of an engagement is no longer an option.

And against frigs and cruisers, precision cruises will deal more damage. Great on a bomber.

B orange
Posted - 2006.01.20 10:48:00 - [26]
 

bomber
improved cloaker
cruise lauchers (t2 ~ second best named)
sensor booster(s)
target painter(s)
bcu(s)
add guns/mapcs/whatever

this is an usual bomber setup. now check market in your region and make a total then check price on plated interceptor setup.

unless you're loaded still wanna use it in close combat?

Brute Helmet
Minmatar
Posted - 2006.01.20 11:54:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Brute Helmet
Rocket DPS is nice, but nowhere near what you can get from high cruise missile skills. I can hit for just below 500 per Devastator missile on armor with my Hound. No rockets can beat that volleydamage. With Fury Devastators the damage should be closer to 600 per missile, without BCU:s.

Using rockets also removes your tactical flexibility, choosing the range of an engagement is no longer an option.

And against frigs and cruisers, precision cruises will deal more damage. Great on a bomber.


Im not so sure that precision cruise would be much better, the stealthbombers already has a bonus against frigs and other fast ships.

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2006.01.20 11:58:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Nyphur on 20/01/2006 11:59:34
Originally by: Brute Helmet
Im not so sure that precision cruise would be much better, the stealthbombers already has a bonus against frigs and other fast ships.

Any bonus to explosion velocity is welcome when you're tackling frigs, in my opinion. They might not be incredible but they'd be better than standard cruise, that's for sure.
EDIT: Or was that javelin missiles I'm thinking of?

Theodox Gotan
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.01.20 19:07:00 - [29]
 

I have a hound that I am dying to use. Grim or someone, can you tell me what a good close range pvp setup for a hound could be? Thanks.

Shaemell Buttleson
Posted - 2006.01.20 20:08:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: keepiru
Yeah, getting tired of hearing "the only good bomber is the manticore".







It irritates me as well. Evil or Very Mad



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