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KIAHicks
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
KenZoku
Posted - 2006.01.10 14:04:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: KIAHicks on 10/01/2006 14:08:01
Edited by: KIAHicks on 10/01/2006 14:05:33
This is a reworded version of my post in the modules forum.

I feel (once dampners etc are fixed) that dampners/ecm is too powerful when used by frigates. Battleships do less damage when trying to shoot frigates, so why can't ecm be less affective when been applied on a battleship from a frigate?

Frigates using ECM against other frigates should have no penalty, frigates using ecm against cruisers should have a slight penalty, perhaps rather than 50% range dampning the module only does 40%. Frigates against BS a large penalty, perhaps only 25% or less and frigs against dreads/capital ships forget it.

Now going the other way DAMAGE against smaller ships has a penelty, but ECM should not. So a BS will hit less often against frigs/cruisers for less damage. But its ECM is totally effective. BS ECM against larger targets such as capital ships/dreads (those that are jammable anyway) should have a slight penalty. Much like cruiser -> BS would have a slight penalty.

In other words MAKE ECM size based. Going up against bigger ships its less effective.

Now a similar line of thought should be applied to scramblers and webs. There should be frig size warp scramblers that do 1 or 2 points, then cruiser sized that do perhaps 2 or 3 points. Then Battleship sized modules that scramble for 3 and 6 points.

That way frigates can still hold battleships in place as they can with current game mechanics, but as it is now you may need 2 or 3 frigates to overcome the warp core stabs.

However if you risk taking your battleship in close, you have a very good chance below 7.5km of holding a battleship in place with one 6 point ws. Stick on a 20km 3 point one and you've got any bs held. (actually ws strenght can be tweaked, its the idea I want to propose more than the stats).

Webs could be modified in a similar way. BS webs reduce velocity more than frig or cruiser size mods.

OR and this is the method I would prefer to see. warp scrambling can move to a percentage base as with ECM, then the above idea for size based ECM could apply directly to scramblers. A frigate would have no chance of holding a dread in place. Yet could hold other frigs and cruisers quite easily, but may not always hold a bs in place. Cruisers however would quite easily hold bs's in place but might struggle against dreads etc.

Just an idea. I just dislike the way frigates can hold a BS in place just as effectily as a BS could hold another BS. Likewise a frigate can ecm a BS as effectily as a BS can ecm another BS.

Yet BS's cannot damage frigates as effectivly as frigates damage frigates.

However percentage based warp scrambling would need a change to the game mechanics to also allow a chance to follow a ships warp out. Perhaps extra modules can increase the accuracy. So a ship is scrambled, but then the scrambler finally misses a hit and the ship warps out. You have the option to persue. You'll come out of warp with X km of the warp in distance you select. You might land in range and manage to rescramble the target before it warps. You mgith not, and have to persue again. Eventually one of you will run low on cap ending the pursuit.

theRaptor
Caldari
Tactical Operations
Posted - 2006.01.10 14:27:00 - [2]
 

Percentage based warp scrambling is the worst idea ever. Eventually no matter what your roll will fail and your target will happily warp away. Which means the only way to gurantee a kill on a BS or HAC will be to bring at least two gank BS/HAC's.

Fooball
Caldari
Posted - 2006.01.10 15:28:00 - [3]
 

Okay then. Where is our race specific specialized EW battleships then? Neutral We'd need those. Laughing

KIAHicks
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
KenZoku
Posted - 2006.01.10 15:46:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: theRaptor
Percentage based warp scrambling is the worst idea ever. Eventually no matter what your roll will fail and your target will happily warp away. Which means the only way to gurantee a kill on a BS or HAC will be to bring at least two gank BS/HAC's.


Thats why I stated we'd need a system to follow people into warp. I really dislike the way combat in eve is all or nothing at the moment. You either catch someone on a gate and kill them or they have enough stabs to warp to safe spot.

I totally agree that percentage based scrambling is a stupid idea if the current game mechanics remained the same though. But if a change was made to allow following by some means or other (scan probes just don't cut it imo) then percentage could work well.

That said, my main point was regarding ecm.

Ayla Vanir
Caldari
InterSys
Posted - 2006.01.10 16:10:00 - [5]
 

I personally agree it should take more than a frigate to pin down a larger ship. Seems to make sense that all that extra mass/armor/etc also includes shielding to protect such critical systems as propulsion and targeting.

That said, I'm not sure if the OP swings it too far in the other direction. I've not yet digested the whole idea yet.

Personally, I'd like to see continuing development into the system it looked like CCP had in mind (as illustrated by the worthless, but still showing on the Attributes tab of ships, the ship-specific Propulsion Strength attribute (can't rcall the exact name atm).


Klydor
Minmatar
Posted - 2006.01.10 16:44:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Klydor on 10/01/2006 16:45:15
edit: ignore me, misunderstood.

KIAHicks
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
KenZoku
Posted - 2006.01.10 16:46:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Ayla Vanir
I personally agree it should take more than a frigate to pin down a larger ship. Seems to make sense that all that extra mass/armor/etc also includes shielding to protect such critical systems as propulsion and targeting.




Originally by: Ayla Vanir
I personally agree it should take more than a frigate to pin down a larger ship. Seems to make sense that all that extra mass/armor/etc also includes shielding to protect such critical systems as propulsion and targeting.




Well I wouldn't say I want to see an end to frigates scrambling battleships. I really like the support role frigates play in combat. Which is why it would be nice to keep their strenghts of 1 or 2 point scramblers the same. Whilst allowing larger modules to be fit on larger ships.

ECM wise though, I think frigate/cruiser/bs/capital modules should be made. With modules only have full impact on equal or smaller size vessels.

Thought I'd clarify that just in case my original post came over as suggesting frigates scrambling bs's needs a nerf. I don't want to give that impression as its hard enough to stop people running as it is :P


 

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