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Mac Danniels
Posted - 2005.12.13 09:59:00 - [1]
 

Is there to be a new Server opening on the 15th as well?

Lee

Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2005.12.13 10:01:00 - [2]
 

Of course not.

mogwai
Gallente
Sparks of Insanity
Posted - 2005.12.13 10:04:00 - [3]
 

If i read correctly, the new server is being 'tested' but not being put in place till they are sure its 100% (top idea in my opinion) and as far as i know, they only have the one part so far.

ildra
Posted - 2005.12.13 10:21:00 - [4]
 

there will never be a "new" server for u to play on, though...

Yameth
Posted - 2005.12.13 10:22:00 - [5]
 

They are probably adding and removing servers all the time without you noticing (hardware problems, maintenance). That's the nature of a distributed system.

Matthew
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
Posted - 2005.12.13 10:55:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: mogwai
If i read correctly, the new server is being 'tested' but not being put in place till they are sure its 100% (top idea in my opinion) and as far as i know, they only have the one part so far.


Actually, what they're doing is testing several different options for new server components. It's not so much a test of reliability at this stage, than one of which combination of processors and other hardware perform best when running the eve server code.

To really understand what's going on, you need to know the structure of the server. What we call "the server" is not one massive computer, it is a whole group of computers working together (note that they are in special rack-mounted cases, there's not a room full of standard PC cases!). Because of this, upgrades don't have to involve replacing the entire server, they can replace some, or even just one, of the individual computers making up the cluster. In the case of the current tests, this means that they can replace a single computer with a potential upgrade version, and see how it performs before they buy loads of them. When it comes to the upgrades, it means that they can roll out the faster computers into the server cluster fairly easily, and don't have to do them all at the same time. It's actually unlikely that they will completely replace the current TQ hardware - the servers that handle market and chat services, for example, simply don't need that sort of power.

CCP Valar

Posted - 2005.12.13 11:09:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Matthew
Originally by: mogwai
If i read correctly, the new server is being 'tested' but not being put in place till they are sure its 100% (top idea in my opinion) and as far as i know, they only have the one part so far.


Actually, what they're doing is testing several different options for new server components. It's not so much a test of reliability at this stage, than one of which combination of processors and other hardware perform best when running the eve server code.

To really understand what's going on, you need to know the structure of the server. What we call "the server" is not one massive computer, it is a whole group of computers working together (note that they are in special rack-mounted cases, there's not a room full of standard PC cases!). Because of this, upgrades don't have to involve replacing the entire server, they can replace some, or even just one, of the individual computers making up the cluster. In the case of the current tests, this means that they can replace a single computer with a potential upgrade version, and see how it performs before they buy loads of them. When it comes to the upgrades, it means that they can roll out the faster computers into the server cluster fairly easily, and don't have to do them all at the same time. It's actually unlikely that they will completely replace the current TQ hardware - the servers that handle market and chat services, for example, simply don't need that sort of power.


It seems that Matthew has a spycam at CCP Shocked
But, yes, we are planning to upgrade much of TQs hardware, but not before 15th.
We have also been testing Windows 2003 on the current hardware and that gives us a performance boost aswell.
So while we wait for the new hardware, we will update 1-2 computers in the cluster to Windows 2003 per day.

SPIONKOP
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2005.12.13 11:16:00 - [8]
 

And how many computer in the cluster will need to be upgraded/replaced?

Matthew
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
Posted - 2005.12.13 11:28:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Valar
It seems that Matthew has a spycam at CCP Shocked


Nah, the information's all out there, just have to piece together all the seperate Dev posts to get the full picture. With you, Oveur and even Kieron letting out bits of what's going on, there's a surprising (and pleasing) amount of information out there, it just takes plenty of skiving off work to read the forums to find it all Wink

Originally by: Valar
We have also been testing Windows 2003 on the current hardware and that gives us a performance boost aswell.
So while we wait for the new hardware, we will update 1-2 computers in the cluster to Windows 2003 per day.


Yeay for performance boosts Smile

Tachy
Posted - 2005.12.13 11:30:00 - [10]
 

There is a nice DevBlog a few months back.

'The server' has a mass of roughly 1 ton.
That is quite a few blade servers to work on. Laughing

The single machines are a few years old now, and it is better to replace them before they actually go down in flames. Cool

Gothikia
Regeneration
Posted - 2005.12.13 12:04:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Gothikia on 13/12/2005 12:04:39
Originally by: Valar
Originally by: Matthew
Originally by: mogwai
If i read correctly, the new server is being 'tested' but not being put in place till they are sure its 100% (top idea in my opinion) and as far as i know, they only have the one part so far.


Actually, what they're doing is testing several different options for new server components. It's not so much a test of reliability at this stage, than one of which combination of processors and other hardware perform best when running the eve server code.

To really understand what's going on, you need to know the structure of the server. What we call "the server" is not one massive computer, it is a whole group of computers working together (note that they are in special rack-mounted cases, there's not a room full of standard PC cases!). Because of this, upgrades don't have to involve replacing the entire server, they can replace some, or even just one, of the individual computers making up the cluster. In the case of the current tests, this means that they can replace a single computer with a potential upgrade version, and see how it performs before they buy loads of them. When it comes to the upgrades, it means that they can roll out the faster computers into the server cluster fairly easily, and don't have to do them all at the same time. It's actually unlikely that they will completely replace the current TQ hardware - the servers that handle market and chat services, for example, simply don't need that sort of power.


It seems that Matthew has a spycam at CCP Shocked
But, yes, we are planning to upgrade much of TQs hardware, but not before 15th.
We have also been testing Windows 2003 on the current hardware and that gives us a performance boost aswell.
So while we wait for the new hardware, we will update 1-2 computers in the cluster to Windows 2003 per day.


Windows 2003 is the fo'shi3zle, using it on a few projects here. You guys also going to be upgrading the database from SQL Server 2000 to SQL Server 2005? Because it is so hot! When I done a few performance benchmarks on it I was blown away, also the beauty of intergration into Visual Studio 2005 with it is almost devine :D

Gradinger
Todmacher
Posted - 2005.12.13 13:06:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Tachy
'The server' has a mass of roughly 1 ton.
That is quite a few blade servers to work on. Laughing

The single machines are a few years old now, and it is better to replace them before they actually go down in flames. Cool


in the case study of TI and CCP its mentioned that TQ is running on 150 blade servers approx. Very Happy

Ra'virr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2005.12.13 13:10:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Valar

So while we wait for the new hardware, we will update 1-2 computers in the cluster to Windows 2003 per day.


Windows? Well, guess were gonna have a lot of server crashes ahead! Laughing

jamesw
Omniscient Order
Cruel Intentions
Posted - 2005.12.13 13:14:00 - [14]
 

Its been running windows 2000 since day one... and I wouldnt call it unstable at all!

I would venture to suggest that just about anything will have issues when you throw 19k users on the same database, or 500 users on the same processor Razz

TheJay
Amarr
Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate
On the Rocks
Posted - 2005.12.13 13:15:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Ra'virr
Originally by: Valar

So while we wait for the new hardware, we will update 1-2 computers in the cluster to Windows 2003 per day.


Windows? Well, guess were gonna have a lot of server crashes ahead! Laughing

My Server 2003 boxes are more stable than my Linux (RHEL 3) boxes, go figure Laughing

James Baker
Caldari
Posted - 2005.12.13 13:32:00 - [16]
 

There are valid points in upgrading both the database cluster as well as the SOL and proxy servers to Windows Server 2003 (possibly 64 bit too).

With regards to the database server, there are serious advantages in upgrading to Windows Server 2004 x64 with SQL Server 2005 x64. The fact that you've got at 16TB virtual address space with 64 bit as opposed to 4GB on 32 bit means you can hold a lot more data in memory at a time. And as the OS reservers the first 2GB of memory, it's A LOT more (yes, you can get 3GB for applications with Windows Server 2003 x86). This means a lot on large tables.
Now of course with the introduction of the RamSan, that is not so much of an issue as response times are rather fast. However, iirc the database is somewhat larger than the 128gb offered by the RamSan, so parts of the database are still situated on the DS4300 storage server.
That makes a solid cluster with lots a memory a desirable option, however not the first option in the hardware upgrades, if you ask me.
SQL 2005 also has a vastly better lock handling, meaning people can actually read while someone writes to a table. However, it needs a lot of testing before you move to the x64 environment as SQL Server 2005 behaves differently from 2000, and I'd imagine CCP'd want to polish off their data layer before this happens.
For this, it appears the AMD Opterons are quite superior atm due to the integrated memory controller which vastly increases performance for memory intensive applications (an SQL server being one of the most extreme cases of this).

The needs on the SOL and proxy servers are quite different in nature, of course that's not to say the same solution doesn't also apply here.
I can't say how memory intensive they are (neither 1) the amount of memory they use nor 2) how much it accessses it), but if 1) is high x64 is the way to go for the reasons stated above, and if 2) is high, again AMD Opteron is the way forward (at least until 2008 according to Intel).
As for pure number crunching, the Xeon still seems a better alternative, but the memory performance of the Opteron makes it more viable for those applications.

Enough geeking around for now, and back to some performance graphs for me.
Let's just say I'm mightly pleased by CCP trying out LS20's with Windows Server 2003 x64 Smile

I'd also like to add that our Windows 2000 and 2003 servers and 2000 clients have been very stable, but so have our all of our other systems Twisted Evil

Katchoo
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2005.12.13 13:35:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Valar
...Windows 2003...


Oh.

Tonkin
Sacred Templars
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2005.12.13 13:43:00 - [18]
 

eve will only be based on 1 server, they will jsut make the network bigger and more powerful for more players, and eve runs out of room they will open more space add more systems and make empire bigger for noobs.

dont let eve turn into the stars crap and wow with there servers, where you pic one server for life, bores me.

Kharakan
Amarr
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2005.12.13 13:44:00 - [19]
 

Windows..?

Nuuu! Unix 4tw! especially when it comes to database stuff.

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2005.12.13 13:58:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: James Lyrus on 13/12/2005 13:59:51
Hey, Solaris will run on Opteron :).

That's the most stable OS I've ever messed with. It really takes an effort to crash it. Redhat Enterprise is just the evil destroyer, it's giving Unix a bad name for reliability.

(Although I've not actually tried Solaris/Opteron yet, only UltraSPARC, but it's on my to-do list)

Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
Posted - 2005.12.13 14:00:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Valar

It seems that Matthew has a spycam at CCP Shocked


That's a great idea for a reality-tv show! Laughing

GouldFish
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.12.13 14:10:00 - [22]
 

every time some one says "servers" and "windows" people always goes to say how unstable they are!

Things have chnaged alot in th epast few years.

Amthrianius
Keiretsu
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.12.13 15:18:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: GouldFish
every time some one says "servers" and "windows" people always goes to say how unstable they are!

Things have chnaged alot in th epast few years.


yet you still have the same anti-microsoft screaming "omg it sux it sux" even though it doesnt :p

Asestorian
Domination.
Posted - 2005.12.13 15:30:00 - [24]
 

OMFG WINDOWS SUXX0RZ!!!

Actually I have no idea if it sucks or not, just thought I would get that in there...

And.. w00t for new server yarrdware.

Mac Danniels
Posted - 2005.12.13 19:58:00 - [25]
 

Ok,

Will there be a 2nd Server starting anytime soon?

As a new player to EVE, and there seems to be alot of us, if we are not entering into an established corp it seems we are unable to catch up.

Maybe this is not true, perhaps only my 2 room mates and I see it this way, but I do not think so.

With the influx of lots more players, and RMR coming out, it would seem a great time for a new server.

Just wondering if one is on the way or not.

Thanks for the info
Mac

Wanoah
Minmatar
Msana Foundation
Posted - 2005.12.13 20:09:00 - [26]
 

Quote:
Will there be a 2nd Server starting anytime soon?


As in a second shard for Eve? No...except for the chinese server. It was always one of the selling points of Eve that it is a single shard. The china server kinds breaks that, but it does have a certain logic to it.

As for catching up, I'm not sure exactly what you mean. The nature of the skill system means that you can compete in specific areas with veteran players quite quickly. Most skills don't take long to train to level 4, and they all only go up to level 5 any way. In most cases, level 5 in a skill will only give you an extra 5% of whatever benefit the skill gives, and in some cases it's less than that.

Maya Rkell
Third Grade Ergonomics
Posted - 2005.12.13 20:29:00 - [27]
 

Eve has many servers.
And one cluster.

And hey, I'm pleased SOMEONE'S found a use for WS 2003. I hate admining it.

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2005.12.13 21:08:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: GouldFish
every time some one says "servers" and "windows" people always goes to say how unstable they are!

Things have chnaged alot in th epast few years.


Yes, now Microsoft only release their uber critical patches once a month.

Thomus
Thomus Mining Inc.
Posted - 2005.12.13 21:10:00 - [29]
 

huh, wtf? a new server?


YOU...... WHAT?

fairimear
Gallente
The Sp00Ks
Posted - 2005.12.13 21:18:00 - [30]
 

windows 03 is SOOOO gona crash tq i can foresee it.


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