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Milo Caman
Gallente
Anshar Incorporated
Posted - 2009.04.07 16:16:00 - [241]
 

Originally by: Hriskarr Jwolsky

Another thing, I've noticed that the in-game 'Summit' channel seems to be pretty quiet. Short of joining an RP corp, how else can I find people willing to RP? I've had people look at my bio before in-game, and RP with a few sentences, but never anything lasting.



There's a number of decent IC Channels around. The Last Gate, and the Skyhook are both pretty good. There's also an OOC Channel called 'OOC' where all the RP'ers hang out. Kinda.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2009.04.09 12:26:00 - [242]
 

Okay, maybe it's time to tone down on the historical references to Earth. Lots of people have been naming specific historical events and countries of late, and I think it's a little too far-fetched. Bear in mind that even the existence of Earth and the whole EVE gate story is at best a highly-credible and widely accepted archeological theory. That being the case, it's a bit anachronistic for people to be discussing the politics of the USA or the second world war.

Bear in mind that EVE is set further into the future than humans have had a written history for, and that's after the EVE gate collapse which was in turn several millennia into our future. Not only that, but our understanding of the political systems in our own countries prior to the 19th century or so are likely deeply flawed and inaccurate, so for a New Eden pod pilot to comment with any authority on the politics of America (for example) is... jarring.

My advice is to use in-universe arguments rather than using modern-day historical references.

Koronakesh
Amarr
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2009.04.10 01:02:00 - [243]
 

Edited by: Koronakesh on 10/04/2009 01:07:11
Mind you, Earth itself is known about in a distant, mythical manner. For instance, it's known in-character that the 24 hour day and leap year calendar are based off Earth's. Basically, Earth can be talked about, but in the same way we'd talk about a slightly more real Atlantis.

time reference : http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=jan01-02

Jon Elleder
Gallente
NephTEK
Posted - 2009.04.18 12:39:00 - [244]
 

For reference, some capsuleers a Spanish IC channel, named El Apolo (yes, our reference has been The Athena, thanks to them!).

if you know Spanish-speaking RP capsuleers, please spread :)

Jon Elleder
Gallente
NephTEK
Posted - 2009.04.18 12:40:00 - [245]
 

For reference, some capsuleers a Spanish IC channel, named El Apolo (yes, our reference has been The Athena, thanks to them!).

if you know Spanish-speaking RP capsuleers, please spread :)

Jyotmimana Karana
The Pruthaak
Posted - 2009.04.20 16:48:00 - [246]
 

Edited by: Jyotmimana Karana on 20/04/2009 16:48:46
Originally by: Stitcher
Okay, maybe it's time to tone down on the historical references to Earth. Lots of people have been naming specific historical events and countries of late, and I think it's a little too far-fetched. Bear in mind that even the existence of Earth and the whole EVE gate story is at best a highly-credible and widely accepted archeological theory. That being the case, it's a bit anachronistic for people to be discussing the politics of the USA or the second world war.

Bear in mind that EVE is set further into the future than humans have had a written history for, and that's after the EVE gate collapse which was in turn several millennia into our future. Not only that, but our understanding of the political systems in our own countries prior to the 19th century or so are likely deeply flawed and inaccurate, so for a New Eden pod pilot to comment with any authority on the politics of America (for example) is... jarring.

My advice is to use in-universe arguments rather than using modern-day historical references.


I quite agree with you, even though I am one of the guilty parties. In the case where I posted "real-world" information, I did try to frame in the context that it was mythology to make it less jarring

To be honest, the main reason for my post was to quiet down those who were taking the thread away from its relevant in-game purpose.

I think my post did quell the earth history discussion, but I wish I had hadn't had to make it in the first place.

Jigger Senseneiss
Caldari
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.04.20 17:33:00 - [247]
 

I'm somewhat new to the game, and come from a background of roleplay. One of the tricky elements in trying to RP out of the gate in a new game, is trying to learn the game, but also roleplay from a degree of common knowledge (in terms of society and mythology).

That is, any character will most likely know of basic history, regarding the empires' political and economic evolution - as well as basic profession skill-sets. Also, there will be many references to New Eden culture. However, the player will be still very green.

One roleplay personality that would work is by portraying a character who is very serious-minded. A character that is reserved. That way he doesn't say or do anything that is contradictory to established lore.

It is an approach that has worked with me in the past with other MMORPGs. And I'm hoping it does for me this time around in EVE as well. And, as I become more confident in knowing how to play the game, I can start loosening up his personality and maybe do a couple of "personal quests" that help explain/justify the change in his demeanor/mannerisms.

Veron Daerth
Amarr
Blood Meridian
Posted - 2009.04.20 20:50:00 - [248]
 

Just something I'd like to point out to all of the newer RP-ers, and this may actually be a help to the people like Jigger.

The universe of EVE is vast. Incredibly so. No one person or even group could ever possibly know everything about the history and background of any other group.

For instance, it is impossible for me, as an Amarrian, to know of every tradition, custom, historical occurrence or reference, mannerism, etc. of the Gallente Federation. It's just too big. There would have to be far too much detail for anyone to remember or even fathom it all.

The same would hold true for members of the same society, even. A person born and raised on Aunia III (random example) would find the people of Dodixie V to be mostly similar (both being from the same general culture) but there would be vast amounts of information that the Aunian would not know. Everything from clothing style and architecture to food preference, to local hero's and famous persons would be different and new and, frankly, quite alien. Public greetings (shaking hands as opposed to waving hello) and mannerisms would also be different.

Trust me, I was born in Cincinnati, Ohio, was first stationed at Ft.Hood, Texas, and thought I had stepped into another country until I got used to the people I was now living with. My first visit to Japan and Germany made me think I had gone to another planet. People from other cultures and societies are just plain weird. I may like a lot of them, and admire a lot of them, but they are still weird. They do things for reasons that arent the same as I would do or have, and that makes them alien to me. It can be disconcerting, but you eventually get over it, mostly.

So, if you want to RP as someone that comes from a planet in the Caldari State where they eat only with their left hand (random trait, feel free to insert something else) and consider belching at the table to be good manners, then go ahead and do that. If you want to RP as a Matari warrior that is cool and rational and calm, then do that, you can even say that these things are favored by your clan.

You can make up almost anything, really, with regards to backstory and history and family and such, and if its a bit strange, pass it off as being "one of those things" that your particular sub-section of your society does.

For example, my RP House has certain ideas about religion and slavery and such that frankly, do not jive with the stereotypical Amarrian mindset. I get away with this by claiming to be both relatively small and inconsequential to the Empire as a whole (why send a battlefleet to squash a House thats not really hurting anything and isnt going to overthrow you tomorrow, we have bigger fish to fry) and by having my House come from one of the planets on the fringes of Amarrian space (You know those frontier/backwoods/back-country people, crazy nut-jobs, every one of them).

This is actually a typical example of how even members of the same society can regard the customs and mannerisms of others in their own society to be strange, but acceptable. I also highly doubt that, since history tells us this is a prevalent human attitude, it will change much by the time EVE rolls around. So use it. I am really getting tired of the "cookie cutter" psycho's, madmen, and stereotypical characters running around. Please, for the love of whatever God you believe in, use your imagination!


Dame Death
Minmatar
Core Impulse
Posted - 2009.04.21 04:27:00 - [249]
 

Edited by: Dame Death on 23/04/2009 12:40:15
One thing i will say if you mess it up dont give up.

For instance at the moment im in a hole ic but just dig in and it should sort itself out.

Also can this get restuck please.

Until then bump. Wink

Jyotmimana Karana
The Pruthaak
Posted - 2009.04.23 18:50:00 - [250]
 

Originally by: CCP Mitnal
We are in the process of moving many of our guides to the EVE Wiki.

We encourage anyone in the RP community that want to keep this discussion going to port the information to the Wiki.

Please contact the community team, either in this thread, in the email link in my sig or via petition in Other-Forums if you are willing to take this up.


I believe this is the reason this thread is no longer sticky.

CCP Mitnal


C C P
Posted - 2009.04.26 19:57:00 - [251]
 

The thread will not be restickied, as stated we are actively looking to move all long term stickies onto the wiki where they are better catered for.

Once the new guide is available, I will link to it in the resources thread.

Evanda Char
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.04.26 21:56:00 - [252]
 

What if we were to distil out the key points of this thread into a set of "rules" for RP ("Rules" is a horrible word for anything to do with RP; maybe I mean "guidelines" or "sensible suggestions") that could be a single sticky post, so we don't get a pile of posts we really can't RP with?

This would be my attempt at such a thing, picking up on some of the most awkward things I've dealt with, RP-wise, in my time:


  • In Character - All posts in this section are made "in character" (IC) i.e. they are written as if you actually are the character that you play. Anything about your real life is "out of character" (OOC) and belongs elsewhere.

  • Posts To The IGS Are Posts To The IGS - This is the Intergalactic Summit. This is where people post about stuff that has happened in game. Stuff does not actually happen here.

  • One Person Is Not Two People - Your alt is not you. They are someone else. Same goes for everyone's alts.

  • Be Human - Your main character is a "pod pilot" or "capsuleer" - a human equipped with implants and equipment that make it possible to fly a spaceship controlled from within a "pod" or "capsule." While you may claim to be something else, chances of anyone believing you are slim.

  • What Earth? - Prime Fiction (the definitive statement from CCP of "what is" in the Eve universe) states that Earth was a long time ago and mostly remembered as a myth if at all. Avoid references to earth, history and the present day; keep the focus on sci-fi RP in the Eve setting.

  • You Have A Crew - Prime Fiction says so. When anything bigger than a frigate blows up, they die. You can claim otherwise, but it isn't true.

  • What Happens In-Game, Happens - You can't do something in game OOC, though you could do it for OOC reasons (e.g. to have fun) that are quite different to your IC reasons (e.g. because it is a dirty job but somebody has to do it). But if your character does something in game, people can see them and it becomes part of their RP and out of your hands.

  • Play Your Own Character Only - You can't tell someone else what their character thinks, does, did or did not do before-hand, either explicitly or by omission. If you want to do something to someone else through RP that isn't covered by Eve game mechanics, you will have to agree what is or is not possible. You can throw a punch, but only the other player can agree to be hit.

  • Keep OOC and IC Separate - What a character feels is not necessarily what the player feels. Don't react OOC to what is said IC. Likewise, do not disrupt RP with OOC information - people come here to roleplay and it is unfair to drop your real life on them. Put OOC in OOC forum sections and you'll save a lot of grief.



Anyone else want to have a try either at editing mine, or creating their own?

CCP Mitnal


C C P
Posted - 2009.04.27 04:39:00 - [253]
 

Sure, if you come up with a list of rules, I'll add that to the resource list too.

Stickies should be a temporary measure only, if it is going to be long term, it should be moved to the EVElopedia and it will be linked to on the forums.

We notified the forum in February about the changes, since then no one has come forward to take on the responsibility of moving this to the wiki.

Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Caldari
Project Daedalid
Posted - 2009.04.27 07:24:00 - [254]
 

Originally by: CCP Mitnal
Stickies should be a temporary measure only, if it is going to be long term, it should be moved to the EVElopedia and it will be linked to on the forums.

We notified the forum in February about the changes, since then no one has come forward to take on the responsibility of moving this to the wiki.


This is all well and good, but what exactly is needed on the wiki from this? A lot of what has been said here can be distilled into a nice little stub article, but will that really add anything to the forum?

What of this thread itself? Will it be buried with no one to read it, linked to the wiki with the last few pages reading "bump for a righteous cause" and the like? Yeah, it was mentioned that this would be "moved to the wiki" in whatever form, but some direction and guidance as to what should be there would be nice.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but to let this linger around on the IC forum without being IC or stickied seems kind of odd to me. At least moving this to another forum (say, EVE Fiction) would keep it from breaking whatever immersion there is on this forum, as well as keeping it "within reach" to be linked to in the interim between now and a page (or three or four) on the wiki can be set up.

Sure, it might be a bit of a task to get this moved, to write a little about what CCP (or at leas the community team) would like to see, but compared to what's being asked (wading through a topic and a few other forums to get an article about "How Not to Sound Like a Madman", or more appropriately "Role Playing in EVE (Guide)" for a wiki article), I don't think it's that much.

Heartstone
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.04.27 11:22:00 - [255]
 

To add to what Nikilaiki has put here I think the problem mainly lies in the perception of this document. Unlike many sticky subjects in many of the forums this topic is not easily broken down into a list of right and wrong. Whilst there are certainly areas in which we can all agree as guided by the Prime Fiction the thrust of this document is effectively an evolving philosophical discussion on Roleplaying in Eve.

The question is really whether or not this ongoing discussion "deserves" a sticky. For those of us who have been around the roleplaying scene in Eve for a while I guess the answer would probably be "It's nice but we don't NEED it". For those who are new to Roleplaying in Eve and MMORPGs in general I believe having easy access to this discussion would be not only useful but almost essential to avoid the pitfalls that people have identified and dealt with before.

It is no exaggeration to say that the Roleplaying community in Eve can, occasionally, be quite hostile and having this document in place at the top of the page I think makes things much easier for the newer player.

I would ask that this document be considered in the light of what it is rather than an arbitrary rule which, in my opinion, doesn't take into account the occasional nature of document like this which is so dissimilar to the topic I believe the idea of the Wiki benefits.

Heartstone (RP Noob and in a better mood than yesterday)

CCP Mitnal


C C P
Posted - 2009.04.27 17:59:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
Stickies should be a temporary measure only, if it is going to be long term, it should be moved to the EVElopedia and it will be linked to on the forums.

We notified the forum in February about the changes, since then no one has come forward to take on the responsibility of moving this to the wiki.


This is all well and good, but what exactly is needed on the wiki from this? A lot of what has been said here can be distilled into a nice little stub article, but will that really add anything to the forum?

What of this thread itself? Will it be buried with no one to read it, linked to the wiki with the last few pages reading "bump for a righteous cause" and the like? Yeah, it was mentioned that this would be "moved to the wiki" in whatever form, but some direction and guidance as to what should be there would be nice.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but to let this linger around on the IC forum without being IC or stickied seems kind of odd to me. At least moving this to another forum (say, EVE Fiction) would keep it from breaking whatever immersion there is on this forum, as well as keeping it "within reach" to be linked to in the interim between now and a page (or three or four) on the wiki can be set up.

Sure, it might be a bit of a task to get this moved, to write a little about what CCP (or at leas the community team) would like to see, but compared to what's being asked (wading through a topic and a few other forums to get an article about "How Not to Sound Like a Madman", or more appropriately "Role Playing in EVE (Guide)" for a wiki article), I don't think it's that much.


There are pages here where players discuss their views on ooc/character development. This is all well and good but could be done so privately - in game chats or EVE mails. I'd suggest scanning the thread for "rules" of conduct that have been agreed on such as Evanda Char's post.

This would make a nice stub as pointed out and can be added to with character discussion on a more personal level at the wiki.

The topic will be written by players, the expert RPers. The thread will then be removed as it will be superceded by the wiki. The wiki article will be linked to in the resource thread so new players will have two click access to it.

This is a resource for the players by the players.

Evanda Char
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.04.27 19:27:00 - [257]
 

Edited by: Evanda Char on 27/04/2009 19:30:03


Okies, I've had a go at creating a wiki page at: http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Roleplay. Please everyone go and attack it with your most succinct and creative sticks. Very Happy

As for the discussion in this thread, could we use the Talk page for that page to preserve the evolving discussion and continue it?

Heartstone
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.04.27 21:01:00 - [258]
 

Leaving my thoughts on the appropriateness of this idea aside and how much it would suck to loose this wonderful thread it looks good Evanda apart from one small issue:

Quote:
You Have A Crew - Prime Fiction says so. When anything bigger than a frigate blows up, they die. You can claim otherwise, but it isn't true.


Latest Chron says otherwise: linky


CCP Mitnal


C C P
Posted - 2009.04.27 21:07:00 - [259]
 

Originally by: Evanda Char
Edited by: Evanda Char on 27/04/2009 19:30:03


Okies, I've had a go at creating a wiki page at: http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Roleplay. Please everyone go and attack it with your most succinct and creative sticks. Very Happy

As for the discussion in this thread, could we use the Talk page for that page to preserve the evolving discussion and continue it?



Thank you for taking the initiative on this project.

Evanda Char
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.04.27 21:38:00 - [260]
 

Originally by: Heartstone
Leaving my thoughts on the appropriateness of this idea aside and how much it would suck to loose this wonderful thread it looks good Evanda apart from one small issue:

Quote:
You Have A Crew - Prime Fiction says so. When anything bigger than a frigate blows up, they die. You can claim otherwise, but it isn't true.


Latest Chron says otherwise: linky




Am I missing something? The chronicle appears to be a capsuleer punishing a traitor member of his crew for causing the deaths of all the other members, which ties in with "You Have A Crew." (also covered in Hands of a Killer, for reference)

Heartstone
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.04.27 21:41:00 - [261]
 

Edited by: Heartstone on 27/04/2009 21:41:35
Originally by: Evanda Char

Am I missing something? The chronicle appears to be a capsuleer punishing a traitor member of his crew for causing the deaths of all the other members, which ties in with "You Have A Crew." (also covered in Hands of a Killer, for reference)



Escape Pods =D.

You have Crew but they don't necessarily die.

Quote:
Parien closed his eyes and leaned back on his cool, soft pillow, letting it swallow him. "The escape pods."

"The escape pods," Silat repeated after him, as if they'd had a minor epiphany. "Not my own capsule, Parien, not right away, though some people with a grudge against me took care of that two systems later. But for the ones on that ship - those six thousand people who worked with you, Parien - those pods didn't even last that long. Do you know how long they lasted, Parien?"


Evanda Char
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.04.27 21:43:00 - [262]
 

Edited by: Evanda Char on 27/04/2009 21:45:26

Oh! You mean that they don't all necessarily die!

Yes, over-generalized, because I have the point in there in reaction to the largish number of people who I've heard say "Well, there's no crew on my ships so I can lose as many as I like and I don't have to feel guilty or sad. I am a 100% pure good guy with no blood on my hands and no grey areas."

Eve, to me, is a game of grey areas and the blood of your crews and the crews of others is one way to add a meaning to combat and to keep those hard choices hard. I shall clarify that point though.

Edit: Wiki now says: "You Have A Crew - Prime Fiction says so. When anything bigger than a frigate blows up, there's a risk some or all of them will die. You can claim otherwise, but it isn't true."

Evanda Char
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.04.27 22:24:00 - [263]
 

Awesome work on the Talk page Heartstone :) I'll help out with it tomorrow

Dame Death
Minmatar
Core Impulse
Posted - 2009.04.28 14:52:00 - [264]
 

Im stuck carebearing for a bit so ill copy from page 3 until i get bored and dont worry I'll spell check Wink

Amira Silvermist
The Aegis Militia
Aegis Militia
Posted - 2009.04.28 17:05:00 - [265]
 

Nicely done Evanda! Very Happy

Melichor Duraldi
Gallente
Fourth Circle
Total Comfort
Posted - 2009.05.01 16:15:00 - [266]
 

Originally by: Amira Silvermist
Nicely done Evanda! Very Happy


I agree, Great work!

Retromash
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.05.02 14:16:00 - [267]
 

Originally by: Amira Silvermist
Nicely done Evanda! Very Happy


Proof yet again that the right man for the job is a Minmatar woman!


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