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blankseplocked How to introduce higher level technology - Suggestions
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Dreams Desire
Destiny of the Amarr
Posted - 2003.09.04 03:09:00 - [151]

Have some new skills introduced into the game, plus reseach being at lvl 5 and metalurgy at lvl 4 or 5. Then let you reseach X amount of times, and you might come up with a Tech II item. CoolI like the idea that you need to work at it not let it be given from the GMs.

Riana Tabost
Posted - 2003.09.04 08:06:00 - [152]

Ok, I’ve been thinking about this since before I had the gameShocked. I propose the research model with a twist. The current system has Original Blueprints and Blue Print Copies.

Firstly, I would change those terms to Prototype Blueprint (PB) and Manufacturing Blueprint (MB) respectively. I think this more clearly represents the current system *and* relates to the system I propose.

I’ll explain my research model by example:

Step 1: Rent Research Lab
Step 2: Insert Manufacturing Blueprint and Item (item the same as what MB would produce)
Step 3: Apply time and money. A Prototype Blueprint is output.
Step 4: Rent Factory.
Step 5: Insert Prototype Blueprint and Minerals
Step 6: Apply time and money. A Manufacturing Blueprint is output. This effectivly gets the manufacturer to prototype the item and then produce the instructions on how to mass produce the item.

The researcher is involved in the first half of a process and a manufacturer is involved in the second half.

What exactly the Prototype Blueprint does can only be determined by prototyping the item (read: manufacturing it for the first time). It may fail, improve or advance the item. For example, say you put in a Cargo Hold Expander 1 MB and Item. The output could be a prototype Alpha Hull Mod: Cargo Expander 1 (tech 1, improved design), or an Inefficient Hull Mod: Cargo Expander 2 (sub-tech 2, based on tech 2 but inferior… still better than improved tech 1) or a Cargo Hold Expander 2 (tech two base level item).

Differences between an MB and a PB.
The PB has hidden attributes until the MB is produced. No user can see what it does until the MB is created. It would specify the tech level and the modifier (over-tech, under-tech or base-tech) as well as attributes for how many minerals it would take to produce a prototype item (effectively the MB). (A project could run over budget or under budget in terms of minerals or money independently… randomly or based on a skill level)

The MB has visible attributes on standard production mineral cost, waste etc. It also lists the item stats (inherited from the PB).

Following it through...
So, now you’ve researched a PB, you’ve run it through the Factory manager and s/he’s produced a prototype (read: MB). The company is happy with the item’s technical abilities but the Factory manager has done a poor job on creating the MB… it’s just too wasteful… So the manufacturer goes back to the factory with the PB (stats now displayed on info) and the minerals and has another go at it. Second time though, he’s got a better way to manufacture the item (quicker, less wastage, less minerals used or something).

Conversely, say your PB was an inferior design, it fails completely. The Factory manager would, after successfully prototyping the PB, report that the PB was useless. The Researchers could then go back to the drawing board so to speak.

Further ideas (formulae)
PB_time = item_volume / number_of_reserachers
PB_cost = item_volume / PB_time
MB time = PB_item_volume * total_minerals_used / expected_minerals_used
MB cost = item_volume / PB_time

Kiroshi Group
Exiliar Syndicate
Posted - 2003.09.05 16:12:00 - [153]

Edited by: Dawnstar on 05/09/2003 16:30:10
I also favor the research and manufacturing route for introducing higher tech level blueprint originals. Here is my proposal the implementation:

1. Add additional skills to the Science and Industry branches. One group for developing higher technology blueprints, and another for manufacturing them. This is entirely reasonable in my mind, as developing new technologies is quite different from improving on existing ones. Some examples:
Develop Frigates
Develop Drones
Develop Turrents and Bays
Manufacture Propulsion
Manufacture Industrial Ships

Essentially two skills (Manufacture XXX and Develop XXX) for each category of item listed under the Ship Equipment and Ships section of the Market. These would all be around rank 6 or so. Develop skills should require at a minimum science, research, and metallurgy all at level 5. Manufacture Skills should require at least Industry and Production Efficiency at level 5.

Researchers would be required to possess the Develop XXX skill at the level they are intending to research for an item that falls under category XXX. The Manufacture XXX skills would be needed at a level equal to or greater than the BP (exempting tech level 1) to install an item of category XXX into a factory. The sheer number of skills and stiff requirements should make it so that even the large corporations aren't going to be able to do everything themselves for a considerable amount of time, and still allow the smaller corps and individuals would be able to specialize in an area and be able to compete.

Some other production skills which would be needed/useful for this proposal:
Automated Production (rank 4) Required Skills: Industry 4, Mass Production 5. +1 additional factory per level.
Automated Laboratories (rank 4) Required Skills: Science 4, Laboratory Operation 5. +1 additional lab per level.
Industrial Efficiency (rank 5) Required Skills: Industry 5. +8% Manufacturing Speed per Level.
Advanced Metallurgy (rank 5) Required Skills: Metallurgy 5. +8% Mineral Research Speed per Level.
Mass Duplication (rank 6) Required Skills: Science 5. +8% BP Copy Speed.
Advanced Research (rank 5) Required Skills: Research 5. +8% Productivity Research Speed per Level.
Reverse Engineering (rank 10) Required Skills: Research 5, Science 5, Metallurgy 5.

2. Development (a new choice for research facilities) uses an existing original blueprint as an input. You would be required to have a Develop XXX level in excess of the BP's current tech level prior to installing it in the lab for Development. The time involved for doing a run of development in a lab should be equal to 10 times the time required for a level of mineral research times the square of the current tech level of the BP. A cost would also be associated with installing a BP for development; it would require minerals equal to building one batch of the item times the square of the current tech level of the BP. Blueprints get a development level at the end of each run. At the end of each run, you also have a chance to produce a new, original, blueprint of 1 tech level higher according to the following formula: ( DevelopSkillLevel - currentBPTechLevel ) * .02 + .01 * CurrentDevelopLevel. When you successfully produce a blueprint, the original BP's development level gets reduced to 0 (you've gathered up all your work and transfered them to the new original).

3. When doing normal research (copy, mineral, or productivity), a higher level BP requires more time to perform research (multiply the time by the level of the BP). The base design waste (which is the waste affected by the mineral level) should also get multiplied by the tech level of the BP (so for most things, a tech 3 BP starts with a wastage factor of .3). The manufacture time should also get multiplied by the tech level as well.

4. When building an item using a higher tech level BP, you would be required to have Manufacture XXX skill at a level equal to or higher to the BP's tech level to install the BP (with the exception of tech level 1).

5. Reverse Engineering. The Reverse Engineering skill would allow you to disassemble an existing item and have a chance of creating a new BP for that item. It would require an item as an input. You would be required to have Reverse Engineering AND the appropriate Develop skill at a level equal to or greater than the item's tech level. You would have a chance of success equal to: ( Develop XXX Level - Tech Level) * .01 + ( Reverse Engineering Level - Tech Level ) * .01. Yes, this does mean that to have any chance of success, one of your skills must be of a higher level than the item, and that you can't reverse engineer tech level 5 items.

(continues on next post)

Posted - 2003.09.05 16:31:00 - [154]

Edited by: Darksun on 05/09/2003 16:31:44
Hmmm lots of thoughts and conjecture here. Any comments from the Devs?

Kiroshi Group
Exiliar Syndicate
Posted - 2003.09.05 16:32:00 - [155]

(continued from prior post)

The above plan uses several things to achieve a balance. First, the skills required to research and produce higher level items are numerous and have fairly stiff requirements to reach. Even very large corporations are going to be limited in how many different things they can do for a considerable time. An individual or smaller corporation could conceivably compete still by specializing in a smaller subsection of the overall group of skills.

The second point is that research on higher levels goes up exponentially for the number of resources and time used. This gives other corporations a chance to 'catch up' to the leaders. Reverse Engineering also provides an alternate way to catch up; while it potentially requires fewer resources, its cost in skill training is considerably higher. The chances are still low enough that it is going to take a considerable amount of time for many advances in technology to occur.

Balan Nadeer
Murkon Prime Interstellar Productions
Posted - 2003.09.05 20:14:00 - [156]

I think Dawn has it right the last thing you want is for pirates to drop them. If they do the same thing will happen as happened to minerII. The only place you will be able to get one will be on The only thing I would add is that it should also require specialized research equipment that would be used as a resource. This would make it harder to cross over to research in other areas since they would need to retool the lab.

Setenta Corp
Posted - 2003.09.08 22:57:00 - [157]

Edited by: Sarina on 08/09/2003 23:05:37
Edited by: Sarina on 08/09/2003 23:04:21
A number of ideas on how level 2 technology should be introduced have been posted in this thread.
As for me I certainly dont like the idea of having them drop in very remote areas, that for at least two reasons.

As things are now, the guys playing in low sec areas are benefitting all to much already.
They got the best ore and also get the best items from the pirate loot there.

All of those are pirates to some degree - either actively by killing everything - is it a threat or not.
Or those with a swastica on the wall and one urge for 'lebensraum' that thinks the guy with the biggest gun have all right to stop everyone else from enjoying the game.
(So yes, dont make those guys even more strong, thats the worst disfavour that could be done to this game!)

As for the RPG player among us: Its not logical that some (drunken?) pirates living in makeshift conditions should make any major scientific breaktrough.

The mark two items (not the blueprints!) might still drop in the 0.0 areas - for example if balancing of the game is needed.

So the game need balancing, this could be accomplished with the introdution of level II BP's in the right way and at the right time.
(Not discounting Danton Marcellus suggestion with some being given via agent missions - that would benefit the active player.)
This might perhaps also make it a better time for beginners who will get a better start than being blown to pieces the first week - leaving the game after their trial period.

But as said, technology should come from within, the central parts of each empire - anything else would disrup the situation in Eve even further - perhaps fatally.

Core Domination
Posted - 2003.09.09 21:32:00 - [158]

people wants more tech 2 items and ships Laughing

Unknown Soldiers
The Spire Collective
Posted - 2003.09.10 14:49:00 - [159]

The Introduction should be entirely Subjective.

By this I mean that huge mega corps should have little to no acces to tech 2 BPs from inception.

Why GIVE, any by giving I mean dropping them from difficult 0.0 pirates in systems that are known to be controlled by megacorps, placing them at astronmical prices in limited stations where ONLY megacorps can buy all of them, and basically anything which is advantagous to a multi billion or hundren million isk corp.

why GIVE microsoft cutting edge software technology, why GIVE Pfzier cutting edge drug technology etc etc, make the monster corps work a bit for it, give the little guys, or not so huge guys a slight break, increase competition in the free market and allow some more corps to rise to a level that can eventually rival the juggernauts of EVE capitalism.

I think the Devs should perhaps have CEO's apply for them with some basic information and maybe do some followups on the Corps and CEOs, kinda like the BETA slots for stations right near the end.

I think the intorduction of certain TECH 2 items carries the potentiality for drastically altering the scope and face of this game, Miner 2's for example will be freekishly sought after and im sure a price war will hastily ensue as seen by the (imho) poor introduction of a few.

Point being, the subjectivness should be slainted in favor of the increasing market competition and corp power on a whole, and NOT ensuring monster corps the right to buy every BP and corner the market or even control the outlet of TECH 2 items on any noticably large scale.

It it incumbant upon the Devs to ensure that, unlke at the open of the game, the market isnt flooded with every BP imaginable, while at the same time ensuring that monster corps that would only get more and more powerful with control of TECH 2 items, cant squash out any hope of competition from below.

Also and a very short, off topic addition, skill copying? when and how?

The Praxis Initiative
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2003.09.11 01:34:00 - [160]

I've read I think every post in this thread. Some very interesting thoughts. However, my favorite is one I've been refining/simplifying since mid beta. In very concise form:

Raffle-like Research/Tech distribution--

Each entity spends the same amount of time/resources to purchase each raffle ticket. When it is time to release another blueprint original into the market, an outstanding raffle ticket is chosen at random and the owner is granted the blueprint.

* Balances megacorp research. Even though a megacorp will be able to have more 'raffle tickets' than any of the smaller corps, they will not be able to have more raffle tickets than ALL of the smaller corps together. There is still an advantage to having more tickets, but it is more likely to go to one of the smaller corps than an individual large corp.
* Finely Tunable by Developers/GMs. Release rate and exact numbers of blueprints is fully controlled by developers. You set exactly how many blueprints you want to distribute, and they are distributed based on player actions and with zero potential for misconstrued 'favouring' of any corps.

* "Research Projects", an in-game object similar to a blueprint which can be put in a research slot to further research. 100% transferrable, Non-duplicable.
* Generation of Blueprints. Set the blueprints to be distributed, and at (scheduled) downtime any projects actively researched in the last X time are eligible. The next time they're put in a research slot you can 'generate blueprint' once.
* Research specialization. Allow people to choose an area of research to increase their likelihood of receiving a Blueprint in this area by reducing their likelihood of receiving one in another area. Perhaps double the effective tickets for the area of interest and halve the effective tickets for all other areas.
* Skill Bonuses. Allow skill bonuses such as science, research, and new skills to affect your time/resources required per ticket earned.


Calmity Jayne
Jazz Associates
Posted - 2003.09.11 12:01:00 - [161]

Eve very much mirrors real life, therefore, in my opinion, most new technology should evolve via existing research and production activities rather than being found. Ford do not "find" their improved models,they research and develop them. There is no reason why some new technology can't continue to be introduced via pirate drops etc. The system as it stands, and many of the suggestions here, is stacked against the small corporation or solo player, when, in real life, many small companies have the opportunity to come up with a killer application or a product development that allows them to suddenly compete with the big boys.

Posted - 2003.09.11 22:51:00 - [162]

Agent Missions. That's it, and that's all.

The Scope
Posted - 2003.09.12 21:30:00 - [163]

I posted this on the General Discussion because I didn't know about this thread... so if it seems in response to nobody's arguments... it isn't.

Some people and I have discussed the whole Eve monopoly issue at length on IRC and we have come to the following conclusion: Monopolies are bad for Eve.

Let me explain...

What CCP would have done, if they were as smart as Stavros and I, is to immediately put the Miner II BP on the market for a reasonable price; say, 20 million isk.

"Why only 20 million isk? j00 f00l! This is teh l33t3st min3r eva!"

That's just the thing people need to understand: This is only a tech level 2 item. It is also a mining laser, likely the most widespread module type in the world of Eve. It would make sense for there to be an abundant supply of these. Making a few corps filthy rich with waiting lists three weeks long is unbalanced, and angers many players who didn’t happen to be “in the right place at the right time”.

"But then... why would people buy things from other corporations if they could just make them for themselves?"

This is also a good question, but with an equally good answer.

Who buys miner 1 lasers these days anyway? Pretty much the only buyers are new players purchasing for low prices due to market saturation, or someone who needs them and can't be bothered to access a blueprint to build them himself. What we need to remember is that when more tech level 2 item blueprints get introduced, their prices will be higher (theoretically) than their tech level 1 counterparts. Say "guntype 1" blueprint costs 12 million each. Then it would be reasonable to assume that "guntype 2" would cost 24 million each, as well as costing more in minerals to produce. So what will stop every single person out there from having access to a blueprint?

What many forum veterans seem to forget, is that 24 million isk is a LOT of money for many of the smaller corporations and newer players. Compound this on the fact that once all the balancing and tweaking of weapons/modules is finally done, people will be needing many different types of guns to complete different setups (e.g. farming and pvp). So suddenly with 45 new (and balanced) gun blueprints (small medium and large) on the market at over 20 million each, what happens?

Not everyone buys the same blueprints.

This is what makes a player driven economy with fair chances at production for everyone such a beautiful thing. Everyone can buy the blueprints, but not everyone will. Thus, people who didn’t buy the blueprints will buy the products from those who did, and will in turn sell the products they made from the blueprints they decided to purchase, and suddenly everything in Eve is solved, right? All the lag is gone, exploits are unheard of, the storyline will have gotten interesting and there will be no more need for patches, right?

If only.

I admit that monopolies and the economy are only a part of Eve, not the whole thing, and that what I have put down above requires many different factors to be well balanced to work successfully. This is just how I see things should be done.

I am ending this post with the request that if you reply either in argument or support of my and Stavros’ views here that you have taken the time to read and understand the points I wrote down, and that you respect Stavros. Yes, he is a pirate. Yes, he seems arrogant and ****sure of himself. However, he is also remarkably intelligent and thoughtful in his approach to the Eve Economy. If you turn this thread into a flame-fest, I’m going to do my best to get it modded and locked, even if I have to resort to breaking the EULA to get it done.

Setenta Corp
Posted - 2003.09.15 15:15:00 - [164]

Edited by: Sarina on 15/09/2003 19:24:56
Edited by: Sarina on 15/09/2003 15:57:11
This reply have to be quite off topic, and for the sake of the reply lets disregard the grapewine that Stavros account have been sold, and also the rumor that Arathmon and Stavros is played by the same player (possibly on two different accounts).

But first, when I did make that comment of mine, I did NOT think of Stavros and M0o specifically. 'Magister mundi sum.' };-}

But yes, flame is lame, its only the fact that my post got a flame as reply I even bother.
So lets just translate whats been said by "Arathmon".

"....and that you respect Stavros. Yes, he is a pirate. Yes, he seems arrogant and ****sure of himself. However, he is also remarkably intelligent and thoughtful in his approach to the Eve Economy. If you turn this thread into a flame-fest, I’m going to do my best to get it modded and locked, even if I have to resort to breaking the EULA to get it done."

'You must follow the decree of myself and Stavros since he is of such a superior intelligence and respect us. or we will wreak havoc over the Eve game and forums with all means possible.'

Comment: What kind of threat is *that*?. They do that already, I mean cargo containers as a weapon to lag people out. Gimme a break!
Is that a sign of someone who intends to actually *play* a game, or rather to cheat his way trough it. This isnt anything new, I think we've seen this guy doing so for half a year in beta also. Cheating the game so much that many patches have been 'devoted' to you breaking every rule one could think of.

"Please send all your hate, mistrust and blame my way please. I've got eight forum flame shield hardeners running... do your worst."


"Im such an divine being that I have no respect for the views of any other person, and will therefore not tolerate that they have any other view than the one presented here."

We could continue, but I wont - he speaks for himself really.

Posted - 2003.09.21 03:22:00 - [165]

I think they should also incorperate a method to help the most unlucky players too. Sort all the players and see who has been playing the longest, also the least wealthy (ie includng ships and so on) and not in a mega corp. Also not a alt charecter.

Give it to a couple of those people in some event.

Ambrai Industries
Posted - 2003.09.24 12:20:00 - [166]

I'll make my suggestion without reading the entire forum for that would take an hour or two of game time from me which I need to make more money to buy a better ship.

Reverse Engineering: A skill, very difficult to learn and train, with alot of scientific, stat, and other requirments to get.

How it Works: You can take any item in the game and research it for x amount of time, during that amount of time there is an x% (based on your prime stats, and level of RE) that the item could be ruined and the left over minerals be sold, or the item be downgraded. If successful research has been made after x amount of time has passed a blueprint would be created and the item sacrificed.

This could be modified that depending on the time researched before the item was trashed that a certain level of understanding could be gleaned from that item and used in future reverse engineering attempts. This would allow which ever HUGE corp who gets lucky to have their short 5000% profit monopoly brought down to a more manageble time. This would also create a new area of study in EVE.

Bounty Hunters/Police, Mining, Manufacturing, Courier/Missions, Research and Development

This would also more closely resemble how technology works these days. Using this Reverse Engineering setup could also open up doors to release "ideas" into the game that can be discovered by scientists and with time and materials and appropriate manpower, a technology could be researched and a blueprint released, rather than just a blueprint being found by a stupid NPC pirate and a corp getting automatic rights to that property.

Posted - 2003.09.26 11:41:00 - [167]

Give them out to high lvl. 4 or 5 agents Wink

Scotty Tremain
Posted - 2003.09.26 17:33:00 - [168]

The easy fix for this problem is simple. The goal for most large corps it to make money. The goal for freelancers and smaller corps is usually to get the best equipment they can. The solution is this. Original BP's get sold at auctions. Limited BP copies with random runs get found on pirates, though agent missions and with research. Research for tech advancement only should be allowed even on copies. This gives everyone a shot at new tech and new tech BP's

The Second Sons
Posted - 2003.09.26 19:06:00 - [169]

Edited by: Hanns on 26/09/2003 19:06:36
They sound put researching in

It should work in batch times. At the end of each batch you have a chance of discovering a tech 2 item and make the BP for it. After each batch's discovery roll, you also get an extra 5% chance added for future reseaching. Chance starts at 0%, so you need to research at least twice to even have a chance, but if you reseach 21 times you will get to tech 2.

Ammo could have a low research time of say 2 days, small guns and modules a week or two, med guns and modules a month, and large guns and modules 2 months.

This would insure that tech 2 wouldnt Explode onto the market, but monopolies wouldnt last forever either.

And... you could also do this for tech 3,4 and 5, but have a switch that turned on researching for them so that people didnt have hi-tech to fast.

As well, smaller equipment would come out sooner, therefore, frigates would have an advantage over crusiers and battleships, helpin to make them more useful cause they can get higher tech items faster.

I like this idea alot! i think thats what the lab slot shoult be used for in my humble opinion!, why "drop high tech stuff" when we can research it!

god idea man i like it alot

Serina Verity
Posted - 2003.09.26 20:39:00 - [170]

The easy fix for this problem is simple. The goal for most large corps it to make money. The goal for freelancers and smaller corps is usually to get the best equipment they can. The solution is this. Original BP's get sold at auctions. Limited BP copies with random runs get found on pirates, though agent missions and with research. Research for tech advancement only should be allowed even on copies. This gives everyone a shot at new tech and new tech BP's

Sorry, auctioning is no longer viable at all. As has become evident, the corps with Miner II's available (either for sole use or sale) have had too much of an advantage for too long. (There are 4 separate threads on this issue.) They now have too much money, and nobody else has any chance of competing in an auction.

That leaves pirate drops (Yuk!), research, agent reward or reverse engineering only.

Infinite Improbability Inc
Dusk and Dawn
Posted - 2003.09.27 06:52:00 - [171]

Not sure who brought up the idea first, I saw the idea in Riana Tabost’s post, but I favor the idea that new technology should be introduced by prototype first, then a manufacturing blueprint. It would require several new components from CCP

New Technology development skill: one for each module class (sensor, missile launcher, mining laser etc)

Manufacturing Development skill: one for each module type as above

Chief Science Officer skill: allows researchers to gang and reduce research time to a practical level.

Prototype blueprint: This is a new technology blueprint. It could be used to make prototype units but it would be extremely inefficient to manufacture in terms of resource requirements and time. Also, attempting to manufacture from a Prototype Blueprint would often result in failure. Finally, any prototype put on the market could be Reverse Engineered by the competition so production of prototype units would be very limited.

Step 1 Prototype development: To develop a new prototype, researchers trained in the appropriate Technology Development skill would input the module they want to advance to the next level plus minerals or other resources. Most of the time all they would get out is a failed prototype. The failed prototype can be recycled for some minerals. Rarely, the result a new +1 level prototype and a prototype blueprint. The costs of prototype development would be reasonable for small corps, or a collaboration of small corps to accomplish.

Step 2 Manufacturing development: This would be a much more costly step than prototype development and would require the appropriate Manufacturing Development skill. In order to make a standard Manufacturing BP a Prototype Blueprint would be required as well as more research, time and resources. This would probably be limited to medium to large size corporations depending on the module (obviously something like a battleship would require resources of a very large corp). Here again, a gang of researchers would help reduce the time required to develop the new blueprint.

New skill packs could be introduced through the market and agent missions. Extremely rarely, a prototype new technology item could be dropped from NPC pirates or as agent missions. These would have to be Reverse Engineered to make a Prototype blueprint.

Using this methodology would allow small corps of all sizes as well as lone individuals to play a role in introducing new technology. It also mimics RL development process.

Posted - 2003.09.27 18:33:00 - [172]

To be simple in this matter. Just make them reaserchable with special skill for every category.. and make the skills take some time to get 2-3months a peice. Make the skills diffrent for every tech lvl so that you have to have tech lvl 2 at 5 to train tech lvl 3. Then progressivly make the training longer so that those that play the Game for a long time will have the best BPs and not just any new player..Wink

Posted - 2003.09.28 10:23:00 - [173]

You could just give a copy or two out to random people for no reason and let them mark it up 27500%

I think that would be a popular solution.

naaa, we already got that, let's try something more stupid ('s that possible?) now! ;)

Posted - 2003.09.30 18:23:00 - [174]

Here's an idea no one will like, how about an espionage skillset, with special ships and such.

Say a spy type parks in one of TTI's main prodution stations, over a set amount of time he should be able to reproduce anywhere from 50-85% of a BP, he could then research the rest himself or sell it to one of TTI's competitors; also since TTI security was slack enough to allow a spy to sit close by and capture information. The info he stole would degrade their BP by 25-50% push ME cost up, and can't be resarched to recover what was stolen, of course if they could somehow recover all or some of what was stolen, they may be able to repair some of the BP.

Special ships: Spyship should be near cloakable but have really low cap, built for short range duty, and deployed by fast moving cruiser outfitted to dploy and recover the manned vehicle; yes that means two live players working in conjunction, if the cruiser gets taken out the spyship will be wounded and will need another recovery ship; you could set a limited power unit that can only be recharged from the deploy recovership's cap. If the spyship is lost, everything except the pilot is gone for ever, pilot should also take a hit for being discovered.

And about clearing spies from a station, another skillset to find spies and give them the heave ho; using TTI again it would be obvious that a spy was close by becuase their manufacturing cost would start rising as he degraded their BP.

Of course paranoia will set in if unknown people start showing up in a station, who knows what they're up to, maybe they're completing their spy skillset, or just passing through: maybe not such a good idea could fuel some serious trash talk in local.Cool

Amarrian Missionaires
Posted - 2003.10.01 03:55:00 - [175]

My suggestions for introducing new tech:

1. Let pirates drop new tech items. Chance of dropping could be something like Bounty / Rarityfactor( decided by ccp) * mineralcost of item. Requires flagging of these rare items...

2. If rare item dropped, x% chance of it being "converted" to a prototype.

3. If rare item gets converted to prototype, x% chance of it getting converted to a Blueprint.

4. The prototype can be reverse engineered. Skills would affect the success rate - but not the time it takes. A "small" prototype should take at least 3-4 hours. Bigger=longer time. No skill to reduce the time taken, at least not greatly...

5. Let agents give prototypes/BPs - with very low probability. 1*agent level/500, for example. If agent gives proto/bp, mission, let there be a 80% chance of low-level bp, 15 % mid-level, 5 % high-level BP.

6. Use Events to trigger some of the BPs too. BUT - let the quest ships move around - not let them stay in one system. "A Caldari spy has gotten away with our newly achieved technology, and is now on the run. He's travelling in a "shiptype", destination unknown. The spy's name is: xxxx. If you see him, don't hesitate, kill him. If he gets away, immidiately call "event-managers name" and let us know, and you'll receive a reward of xxxxx credits." The event-manager can check if the spy has been there - if so, give reward and tell other ppl in the channel the last known observation. Obviously - the spy has left that system - so ppl will have to search the surrounding systems... And, hopefully - spread the stress on the "local" server...

7. If CCP wants to limit the total number of available numbers of a BP, make a counter for the BP's. As soon as that number has been achieved, convert the name of the prototype items from "prototype large Missile launcher II" to "Advanced Large Missile Launcher" - so ppl will know it can't be researched.

Imperium Technologies
Sodalitas XX
Posted - 2003.10.01 18:30:00 - [176]

Edited by: Silinary on 01/10/2003 18:37:19
I'm not going to read this whole thread, so if this suggestion is already out there, I appologise.

Basically, it would require the reverse enginnering skill and a tech research/tinkering skill.

A researcher would take a basic item and try to modify it with this tinkering skill. Can use the manufacture option in the labratories. By adding some minerals to the item to modify it, you get a % chance to mod it. If it succeeds, then it will create 1 item of any modified version, from the basic pirate mod, up to the good pirate mod and tech 2 item. Once the item is modified, the researcher can attempt to reverse engineer it to get a blueprint. Can make it take 1 day to research a modified item, and another day or 2 to try and get a blueprint. This will somewhat a time delay on all the tech 2 items commnig out, while not restricting anyone from them.

Give the chance to modify an item at 5% ->30% depending on level, or give it a strait 20% chance with the skill manipulating the outcome type, each skill level giving a better chance at a tech2 item being created, make it a rank 8 if necessary so the time is worth it.

Then while the person has the modified item, they reverse engineer it to find what exactly was modified and how. Give this a scaling % chance (like the tinker type skill) so the higher the %, the better the chance to get a bp. All bp's created are originals.

Now some of you might ask, well, couldn't you just go out an pop a few pirates for a modified item and then make a bp from that? sure could. This makes it equal for hunters and researchers alike to find blueprints.

This method favors no one but the lucky, and even the unlucky will eventually get something out of this. The drop rates on good pirate loot were brought down some last I heard a while ago so it keeps everything in balance. This also opens a small market for those that dont' hunt to be able to sell modified items.

I also forgot to mention that should an attempt to get a bp or modify an item fail, the item is destroyed. The process for the two woudl be seperate, so if you get a modified item, you could opt to not research it into a bp and jsut use it or sell it.

Blueprint copies could be given out by high (4-5) level agents with a couple (50%?) runs on it.

No one should have a free ride. These things should require everyone to spend time on. The small corps and the large corps will have just as much chance of finding something new. it doesnt' favor the rich or the poor. Likly, the larger corporations will have more people working on them, and that is fine. But it doesn't exclude the one man operation from a chance at high tech.

Let the players decide how they wish to persue this. I didn't emntion it before, but events are fine too, but keep 'em regulated and span all over. Also, do more then 1 hehe... can be different items to keep the cluster alive. Only doing 1 or so will make it seem that the event staff is playing favorites, but that is discussion for another thread.

Fringe Roamers of Goa
Posted - 2003.10.02 21:49:00 - [177]

Edited by: Mysticaa on 02/10/2003 22:00:14
Research! This should be the only way a Tech 2 item comes into the game.

If this game is supposed to be similar to real life then research would be the only way new technologies would ever be introduced.

However, I do like one of the earlier post that research on a tech 1 bp yeild "meta" improvements. I would suggest that the bp move up in tech level as they are researched.

base (Tech 1.0)
meta 1 (Tech 1.1)
meta 2 (tech 1.2)
and so on until they reached the top of the meta levels then have a small percentage chance to upgrade to tech 2.

The amount of research that is needed to get these Meta upgrades should be large. How many people have researched their BP to 1000 mineral efficency and 1000 production efficiency? And more importantly how many would do so to get a 1% chance at a meta upgrade? Don't get the upgrade, and have to reseach another 1000 of each for another 1% chance? Some will do it but most will not.

Secondly I believe that with the increase of Meta or tech level and increase in the requirements to research or produce an item should come into play. A new Tech 2 skill such as Ammunition Research or Ammunition Production should be incorpotated with the release of thech 2 items.

In real life anyone can buy a kit and make a glider but as you increase the technology of an item the more specialized the skills needed, i.e. a jet fighter can not be made by just anyone.

Someone mentioned that small corps should not even be in competition with large corps, like TTI. This statement is totally false. It is small corporations the do the bulk of all research in our world. When they make breakthroughs they either get propelled into large corporations or they are bought out by large corporations. I will give Microsoft as an example here, as a small corp that gets propelled to large corp, and Allistare inc. who got bought out by Macromedia as an example of the latter.

just my 2isk on the matter Very Happy

Nivek Steyer
Posted - 2003.10.03 11:24:00 - [178]

How about letting the Sci characters research items to new tech levels and let them release the BP on the market...

Ris Dnalor
Fleet of Doom
Posted - 2003.10.04 22:52:00 - [179]

let ppl research level 1 BP's to improve them to level 2. this lets the players with research skill have some value. Also it means those that have prepared a character skilled in the sciences will physically bring the level 2 tech BP's into the game. Imagine that, researches coming up with improved technology... whatta concept :P

Agent Red
Posted - 2003.10.07 15:24:00 - [180]

through random npc drops (not container spawns) and agent missions.

they should not be auctioned or anything that allows the richest people to buy them outright.

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