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ZOSO2
Posted - 2008.06.09 01:28:00 - [301]
 

ok im a bit stoned right now but here goes...so say Ima noob thats been playing 2 days, Im looking to go big on a new mmo cus im bored of pe and ao. I really like eve and can see its depth so I decide its the next mmo im gonna sacrifice the 0.01% of a social life i have left for.I know ill be playing in ayear but my ego demmands that i wanna be a badass that can do eveything as fast as possible.So I open a 2nd account thats just gonna sit there and train while I actually have fun on the main account.What is the fastest way to train all skills to their maximum and how long does it take? Is it best to just start with 88887 and prgressively learn each skill that adds to the base attribute before you then start on the *actual skills?
thanks
and no Ive never played wow Very Happy

ZOSO2
Posted - 2008.06.09 01:46:00 - [302]
 

as an add on I do realise that this would take more than 1 year...im guessing 3ish? Ive googled this loads but theres no definitive answer I can find out there.

Tripoli
XenTech
Posted - 2008.06.12 01:18:00 - [303]
 

There is no correct answer to your question. It will depend largely on what you want to do and how long you end up playing the game.

For most people, getting all the learning skills to level 4 and adding some +3 or +4 implants is a good, solid start. Training all the learning skills to level 5 will not "pay off" for over 3 years.

Riphid'Qeth ra'Novax
Posted - 2008.08.01 12:35:00 - [304]
 

Thanks for the info , this will help a lot................Very Happy

Brahmen
Cult Of War II
Posted - 2008.08.12 16:44:00 - [305]
 

Ok, this guide is amazing and all, but I want to start a new alt and I got no problems spending money on him/her, so I want to get +4 implants for the alt.

Question is, what is the optimal build, I intend to get all basic learning skills to V, including learning and advanced ones to IV, beside charisma, as I have no use for that (Hi achura char!).

So my question is, what would be the optimal way to get all those skills I mentioned and cybernetics IV for +4s (and putting in +3 implants before that). I just didn't see a post about an optimal build from scratch including implants, thanks for answering!

Xviix
Amarr
Posted - 2008.08.16 00:00:00 - [306]
 

Why isnt this stickied ?

Tripoli
XenTech
Posted - 2008.08.18 02:20:00 - [307]
 

Originally by: Xviix
Why isnt this stickied ?
It used to be. Now it's part of the resource topic that's stickied at the top of this forum.

Vecana Rayne
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2008.08.26 18:47:00 - [308]
 

Edited by: Vecana Rayne on 26/08/2008 18:56:06
Before I get started... great guide ^^

Warning: Long Post (I do it for the sake of the guide!)

Originally by: Tripoli
Edited by: Tripoli on 28/01/2007 03:56:16
- Determining the best order in which to train Clarity, Focus, and Presence is a little tricky. For each skill, take your current attributes and plug them into this simple formula: Primary + ( Secondary / 2 ) Whichever skill gives the highest result, train it to level 1 first. Repeat this until all three skills are at level 1, then repeat this same process for levels 2-4.


This is a good formula only for determining the first of these skills you should train at each level of skill. After that, you should train whatever skill uses the stat you just increased as a secondary stat. For instance, when you increase Clarity, your Perception goes up, which is the secondary attribute for Presence. Presence helps Charisma, which is secondary for Focus. Focus helps Willpower, which is secondary for Clarity. Thus, use your formula to figure out which skill to train first, then train the one it helps.

If Clarity is first, the order is Clarity, Presence, Focus.
If Presence is first, the order is Presence, Focus, Clarity.
If Focus is first, the order is Focus, Clarity, Presence.
If you choose to not train one of them at a certain level (say, not training presence at IV because you don't use Charisma that much), then ignore the formula completely and train the one that affects the secondary stat of the other first, followed by that other one.

The reason for this is simple. Once you've trained one of these advanced skills, the only one that gets faster is the one using that stat as a secondary. It doesn't matter if the one that did not just get faster has a faster training time, because it will get faster only when its secondary stat goes up.

And, just because I have no life and have plenty of time to type all this, here's my list of fastest possible training to 5 for all skills (assuming 88887, with the 7 in charisma, such as the possible Gallente Jin-Mei stat spread that I used):

Instant Recall I
Analytical Mind I
Learning I
Instant Recall II
Analytical Mind II
Learning II
Instant Recall III
Analytical Mind III
Learning III
Instant Recall IV
Eidetic Memory I
Eidetic Memory II
Eidetic Memory III
Analytical Mind IV
Logic I
Logic II
Logic III
Learning IV
Eidetic Memory IV
Logic IV
Instant Recall V
Analytical Mind V
Learning V
Eidetic Memory V
Logic V
Empathy, Spacial Awareness, & Iron Will I-V (any order, they're based on Mem/Int)
Clarity I
Presence I
Focus I
Clarity II
Presence II
Focus II
Clarity III
Presence III
Focus III
Clarity IV
Presence IV
Focus IV
Clarity V
Presence V
Focus V

Final Note: The Clarity-Presence-Focus order starts with which ever skill will train the fastest, then follows the circle of secondary attributes.
(Clarity -> Presence -> Focus -> Clarity)

This takes approximately two to three months to complete, and will vary based on your stats. This is also just the way to get all Learning skills maxed out as quickly as possible and will certainly create a very long payback time. Implants are not taken into account with this. The true value of implant training depends on where your Science skills tarts at for Cybernetics I. With Science at 2 or less, Cybernetics goes right after Learning II or Analytical Mind III (depending on if you have +3s or +1s respectively). With Science starting at 3 or higher, Cybernetics goes first. Cybernetics IV, due to the wasted time of II & III, goes just before the level IV Advanced Learning skills. Cybernetics V goes just before the level V Normal Learning skills. You obviously need the implants to start with to get the payoff as well, so only those with a lot of wealth to burn (+3, +4, and +5 int and mem implants, and +5 for all the others) can take advantage of them beyond Cybernetics I.

Vecana Rayne
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2008.08.26 18:55:00 - [309]
 

But wait, there's more!

If you start as a Prospector (Instant Recall IV and Analytical Mind II), here's the shiny new spread for level I-IV of the Mem/Int skills! And Learning too!

Learning I
Eidetic Memory I
Learning II
Eidetic Memory II
Analytical Mind III
Learning III
Eidetic Memory III
Analytical Mind IV
Logic I
Logic II
Logic III
Learning IV
Eidetic Memory IV
Logic IV

Yankunytjatjara
Amarr
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2008.10.12 23:49:00 - [310]
 

Edited by: Yankunytjatjara on 13/10/2008 00:28:07
Shocked read it all... Thanks Tripoli! Now, a point and a question.

Just did this new character in a burst of evediction thanks also to the power of 2 offer. Yankunytjatjara (and it's not a made up word Cool) will be a amarr/minmatar fighter pilot, no drones, mixed gunnery/missiles,with the intention of reaching titans and of having some good team command capabilities.

Finally, my point. Well, many consider only an all or nothing approach: all the adv. to 5, or none. I don't agree, I think I should train (with my ridiculously high objectives) focus and clarity to 5, but probably not eidetic, as it would serve only for the skill Science, a few electronic skills (note that my other char is an industrialist/scientist and will cover all the exploration needs!) and the biggest need, the engineering stuff. But this gets done pretty soon anyway, after that, memory will be useless, and having spent days to train eidetic up to 5 would be a waste.

So the question is: how high should I train int and mem? I've got the guy already in evehq. Isn't there a tool to test various numbers and see how many days are required with various combinations?

Thanks!

-edit-
Nevermind the question - I found the tool in evehq. It seems that training also int and mem up to 5/4 saves me some days in my 1550 days plan Rolling Eyes I should probably come up with a somewhat shorter plan and see if that changes.

duckydax
Posted - 2009.01.08 07:28:00 - [311]
 

i dont get it, so which shoul we train first...the attributes that contribute to a skill or the skill which boost attributes....i find it complicated

Gaius Sejanus
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2009.01.09 04:16:00 - [312]
 

You can't train attributes. You train skills that raise attributes.

The only time you can directly change attributes is during character creation. After that, any changes are a result of training skills or plugging in implants.

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:48:00 - [313]
 

Trip your going to have to change this now...
Apocrypha changes stuff....

Tripoli
XenTech
Posted - 2009.02.10 04:59:00 - [314]
 

Originally by: RaTTuS
Trip your going to have to change this now...
Apocrypha changes stuff....
Goodie.

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2009.02.10 08:07:00 - [315]
 

Edited by: RaTTuS on 10/02/2009 08:40:23
noobs get 100% bonus to Skill training up to 1.6 Mil SP [I think]
and can re-assign their Skill points for free a couple of times [not sure on time limit though it seems it may be 6months - so you can gimp ypurself early on]
I created a new character and bunged in 24hrs of Skill training yesterday [can get one of the learnings to 4 in 24hrs]

Race& blood line does not matter any more



Finfamfoom
Posted - 2009.02.10 12:15:00 - [316]
 

Originally by: RaTTuS
Race& blood line does not matter any more



*sings* "We Are the World!!!! We Are the Children!!!"
..wheres my lighter...

Raymon James
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.02.10 17:02:00 - [317]
 

Originally by: Finfamfoom
Originally by: RaTTuS
Race& blood line does not matter any more



*sings* "We Are the World!!!! We Are the Children!!!"
..wheres my lighter...
Im kind of suprised this did not happen sooner given the static that erupted when people who dont play eve find out "things" about EVE and its development team(mostly not be true) sutch as "did you know that the Amarr(clearly short for "Amarrican", the way it sounds when some southerners like to say it with their pronouced southern Drawl) have a slavery based culture, and that the (atlanta) development team holds meetings at Stone mountain(youve heard of it of cource, its that MASIVE state park consicrated* by the modern *** that has that giant tribute to the 3 generals who fought to preserve the instution of slavery carged into the side of it) oh and did you know that the *** has a permient Easment to hold meetings their? why I bet the Atlanta team felt right at home!Rolling Eyes (I seriously doubt anyone on the Atlanta develoment team is stupid enough to be in the line of sight of stone muntain monument and *** meeting grounds, let alone hold any kind of meeting their.)

(* incidentaly the monument ground was not dedicatated by the ***, however the modern *** did hold its first meeting there in order to recreate the *** in 1915, however the idea of stone mountain started in 1912 with the Daughters of the Confederacy)

Kiri Komorri
Gallente
Aurelius Federation
Apotheosis of Virtue
Posted - 2009.02.28 12:04:00 - [318]
 

Originally by: RaTTuS
Race& blood line does not matter any more


Could you develop please ? I'm not sure I understand...

(actually I maxed Charisma because I'm a leader, yeah yeah... Uh BTW I don't know what I could do with my life but I'll figure out)

Loraen
Posted - 2009.03.01 13:14:00 - [319]
 

With Apocrypha, new characters start with attributes of 8 and 7 Charisma. They also get a standard set of skills worth about 50k SP. It contains basic things at level 2-3 like Engineering and Electronics, racial turret and frigate and so on.

Everyone gets a +100% training speed until a total of 1.6M skillpoints, so if you're planning a new character soon, you can choose to make it just before the expansion and get the ~800k SP skillset and then train another ~800k at doublespeed.

You can remap your attributes once a year (though I assume the free extra remap new characters get doesn't lock them for a year). The limits are minimum 5 and maximum 15 base in an attribute.
Currently it's unclear if the remap forces you to put at least 5 in everything or can old characters leave below 5 attributes untouched (mostly the Achuras with 3 Cha but also Gallente industrialist types with 3 Per).

Kiri Komorri
Gallente
Aurelius Federation
Apotheosis of Virtue
Posted - 2009.03.01 18:40:00 - [320]
 

Unfortunately I just created mine :'(

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2009.03.06 12:09:00 - [321]
 

Currently on Sisi you can re-spec twice before you get hit with the 12month block

Lilith Krell
Posted - 2009.03.06 12:51:00 - [322]
 

Edited by: Lilith Krell on 06/03/2009 12:54:27


Originally by: Loraen
...so if you're planning a new character soon, you can choose to make it just before the expansion and get the ~800k SP skillset and then train another ~800k at doublespeed.



I don't think this will work, only characters made after the patch will get double speed as far as we know - the whole point was to make up for the reduction in starting SP's...not to mention that the 2 repsecs are only for post-patch characters.

I think that training learning skills at double speed is going to be the real advantage, so why would want to try and gimp yourself by starting with 800SP worth of skills that you can learn faster at a later date?

A character created on 10th march will catch up to and overtake a character created on the 9th simply by being able to respec twice, thereby speeding up the training of learning skills and increasing his/her attributes faster.

You can spec int/mem - rip through the int/mem learning skills, advanced int/mem then all the other basic learnings all at double speed, then train all the int/mem support skills you want. Respec to perc/will, train the perc/will advanced learnings and move on to gunnery & spaceship skills. A year later, with a lot of essential lvl5 skills under your belt you can spec again to a more balanced/focused path depending on your career choice.

The starting 800k SP's of the march 9th character would soon be irrelvent because it would take them more than twice as long to train the learnings with less optimal attributes...

Kitty Paw
Posted - 2009.03.15 06:41:00 - [323]
 

Guys, thanks for great great input first of all, hat off!

One thing I couldnt find is how cybernetics would help. I want to powerlvl my character as fast as possible (can afford any temporary implants/whatever).
The question is - at what point it worth to train Cybernetics to IV for +4 implants and at what level it worth training Cybernetics to V for +5 implants if I follow the guide posted on the first page? By the way, the char is newly created and have 100% to 1.6mil boost active.
I already remapped everything to Memory with bits to Intelligence to speed up the learning grind.
The only thing I cannot understand is at what point its best to train lvls 4/5 of Cybernetics?
Thanks.

Star P'ergish
Posted - 2009.03.15 11:54:00 - [324]
 

Edited by: Star P''ergish on 15/03/2009 11:57:47
Edited by: Star P''ergish on 15/03/2009 11:55:24
Cybernetics has as primary Int and as secondary Memory so the best way to get to lvl 5 is:
train science to 3 and cybernetics to 1 instantly plug in +3 implants then train learning skills to maximize both Int and Memory after getting to Learning 5 Analytical Mind 5 Instant Recall 5 and Eidetic Memory 4 + Logic 4 start Cybernetics 2-3-4 plug in +4 implants learn Cybernetics 5 and plug in +5 implants and you are free to continue with other learning skills. Note: you will need 3 jump clones in order not to waste your implants use FREE excellent jump clone service provided by Estel Arador (you will need Infomorph Psychology 3)

Kitty Paw
Posted - 2009.03.15 21:57:00 - [325]
 

Edited by: Kitty Paw on 15/03/2009 21:58:57
no, you dont seem to understand )
the point is not to train Cyber V itself
the point is - at what part of the skill training it is worth to move away from Learning skills and train Cybernetics IV-V to add implants to speed Learning up?
I currently guess it may be worth to train Cybernectics IV after Learning IV, and to train Cybernetics V after Learning V (as in list posted on first topic), but I may be wrong here?

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2009.03.16 10:59:00 - [326]
 

for long term, i would go for Cybernetics 4 before Basic 5s/Advanced 4s, and Cybernetics 5 before Advanced 5s. for time invested, this is most benefit at the cost of ISK.

Delta Eztrader
Posted - 2009.03.24 20:07:00 - [327]
 

All,
I took an interest in this and decided to construct a spreadsheet to determine the fastest way to get to lvl 5 in all the skills. Training the learning skills and cybernetics to lvl 5 will boost each attribute by 16.1 (including the 10% bonus from learning).

Effectively the fastest order I came up with is as follows:
Instant Recall (IR) 1
Analytical Mind (AM) 1
Learning (L) 1
IR 2
AM 2
L 2
Science 1, 2, 3
Cybernetics 1 (this assumes you use the +3 implants at this point)
IR 3
AM 3
L 3
IR 4
Eidectic Memory 1, 2, 3
AM 4
Logic 1, 2, 3
Eidectic Memory 4
Logic 4
Cybernetcs 2, 3, 4 (use +4 implants)
IR 5
AM 5
L 5
Cybernetics 5 (use +5 implants)
Eidectic Memory 5
Logic 5

You can train these three sets in any order:
Spatial Awareness 1-5
Iron Will 1-5
Empathy 1-5

At this point, you would train the learning skills that affect the three remaining attributes based on whichever you are the strongest in. For example, if you have PER 4, WILL 11, and CHA 4, you would start with Focus, then Clarity (because secondary skill is Will) and finally Presence. Also, do not start on these until you have completed all of the above if you want the absolute fastest way to get to the max in all of them.

Based on base stats of Mem 9, Int 9, Per 5, Will 11, Cha 5, it will take 210,971.35 mins (146days, 12hrs, 11min, 21sec) to train all of them to the max. Your skills would max out at M24, I24, P20, W26, C20 (not including learning bonus).

If you increased Mem and Int, you can learn them faster, but this would mean lower Per, Will, and Cha which will affect your career. For example, starting stats of M12, I12, P5, W5, C5 will take 203,331.51 mins to train to max - a savings of 7,640 mins (roughly 127 hours). But your max skills would be M27, I27, P20, W20, C20 (not including learning bonus). This will affect your training on all the remaining skills.

Hope this helps!

Chathe
Amarr
Posted - 2009.03.24 21:58:00 - [328]
 

Getting cybernetics 1 and +3 implants pays off in under a day training time wise.
Upgradeing to +4's from +3's it takes ~57 days with both implants in and learning 5 to recover the training time.

To upgrade from +4's to +5's it takes ~ 323 days of training to recover the time to train cyber 5 ( assuming primary and secondary both have +5's and you've got learning 5 ).

Forando
Interstellar Cowards
Posted - 2009.04.07 07:28:00 - [329]
 

With two remaps available (at least at time of writing) you have the opportunity of maximizing your training a bit, if you're willing to:

1) Sit in a station for a while. You're a typical Alt or a character you train with for the purpose of selling in the Bazaar later on.

2) Use both your Attribute Remaps. It could gimp you should you decide a sudden career change. Also, this might effect your price, if you intend to sell your character before the remap is ready again (1 year after 2nd Remap)

The method is simple and probably most noticeable on a combat oriented pilot.

The basics: Use first Remap to get high Memory and Intelligence, train Learning-related skills with Mem/Int and skills for Implants if you need. After that is done, you basically have very high, if not optimal, Memory and Intelligence stats. Go train all the skills you need that depend on Memory or Intelligence. When you have trained these must-have skills of your choice, use Remap to set Attributes that will better reflect your character in the long run, at least the next year.

DON'T forget to train the Rank 1 learning skills related to Perception, Willpower and Charisma before Remapping away from your high Memory/Intelligence wizard-hat stat. All of those have Memory/Intelligence as Primary and Secondary stat, not like the Rank 3 Per/Wil/Cha skills that uses a blend of their own Attributes as Primary and Secondary.

This allows you to, especially as a combat-pilot which will likely favor Perception and Willpower in the long run, get support skills as Electronics, EW, Engineering, Cap, Shield-tanking, Armor-tanking trained to maximum or a favorable level with overall less training time.

Lord Shamster
Posted - 2009.06.25 11:08:00 - [330]
 

Tripoli, firstly thanks fo4r this. it really helps.

I have another char and account for playing. I am not using this char, just training skills with him. I bought +5s and have maxed out all learning skils to lev 5. I want him to be a fighter and fly upto cap ships and dreads, I can afford to be patient with his training as i use my other char, however I do wish to train as fast as possible for this. I only have around 6m SP with most of that being adv learning. Is it wise for me to remap now to gain better training speed or should I wait? As i say, im clear on what i want to do with this char in the future.

If you think it is wise to remap, please can you suggest the best remap for me.

Any help would be appreciated. Thx again


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