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Tana Pleiades
Caldari
Galactic Shipyards Inc
Huzzah Federation
Posted - 2005.10.05 13:50:00 - [1]
 

I've heard a nasty rumour that you will be banning instas. After spending 2 months mapping my entire region this would make me rather... annoyed. Also we are a small corp surviving by ninja mining in 0.0. Then having to haul our ore through 4 prat camped gates. If you remove instas
the pirates will have full control of 0.0 and anywhere else below 0.5. The game will be ruined and me and at least 3 others I know in real life simply will cancel our memberships. This attitude is the norm across all the people I have met in eve. Cancel instas and I think you will find you will also cancel a third of your subscribers. Also a million a week to go to war on who you like? Raise it by about tenfold and you might
actually find some small corps rise from the ground up.

Also You say you want to encourage people into 0.0... then on next breath you ban instas. I Run a corp of 16 which has only been running for 30 days in solitude. the only way to get here is through 9 0.0 sectors, I have recruited from empire and as a rite of passage have got these members to my space past the gate campers using instas. Even with instas a properly camped gate is still very very dodgy. If you remove instas any skill or planning the pirates require will be removed. And any dumb pirate can sit on a gate and get kills. This game is already ruined by all the wealth being in 0.0 and the pirates/large corps owning it all. You admited this when you put zydrine in 0.4. The only way small corps or lone players who are new to make decent money is to use instas.

Remove instas and the game will be ruined and will be a gate gankers paradise. Your members do not want this Do not remove instas or we will leave in our droves, also new players will never be able to make a decent start so new subs will fade off.

I think the game is a amazing one. But please listen to your members, and dont through arrogance, because you didnt plan it, remove one of the most rewarding parts of the game. and somthing many of us have spent months setting up.

Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2005.10.05 13:53:00 - [2]
 

You shouldnt listen to rumors. (Though rumor has it the apocalypse is coming, if you see zombies; RUN FOR COVER LITTLE GIRL!)

Binary Mind
Posted - 2005.10.05 14:04:00 - [3]
 

They won't ban instas unless they got an equivalent effective solution for travelling

Desired Username
Legio Immortalis
Posted - 2005.10.05 14:09:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Binary Mind
They won't ban instas unless they got an equivalent effective solution for travelling


Thief!! You stole them words from my mouth! Very Happy

Resin Kadir
S.A.S
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2005.10.05 15:26:00 - [5]
 

Then I'm an accomplise.

The Wizz117
Reikoku
KenZoku
Posted - 2005.10.05 19:12:00 - [6]
 

it would be random suicide to travel to/in 0.0

Orlander
Posted - 2005.10.05 23:24:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Orlander on 05/10/2005 23:24:19
The issue with instas is one of them causing both client and server lag. This makes an issue of game mechanics not balance. Therefore I would not be surprised if something does come down the pipe that changes them in some way.

That being said:

Tana Pleiades:

Use those instas while you can. Since the inception of EVE the universe has undergone several changes. These changes have rendered many people's instas of years past obselete or ineffective. Considering CCP's past records there is no sign that this trend will change. So while you cannot count on them removing instas from the game, you can count on them changing stargate lanes with "expansions."


Sidebar

If bookmarks do get removed somepoint in the future, I would imagine that CCP will introduce a new skill such as Warp Calibration or Warp Precision that would reduce the distance you land at when warping to objects.

Wild Rho
Amarr
Silent Core
Posted - 2005.10.05 23:50:00 - [8]
 

There are plans to do away with instas becuase with most players have literally hundreds if not thousands of bookmarks the database is starting to feel the strain.

However instead of simply getting rid of them the devs are trying to find solutions that will give players more rapid travel but not allow instant jumping (which would essentialy be a "god" mode for traveling pods, frigates, shuttles and so on) so players get a balance of rapid traveling but not complete immunity to ebil buggers around gates in the more dangerous systems.

Amicus
Gold Diggers Inc.
Posted - 2005.10.06 00:47:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Wild Rho
complete immunity to ebil buggers around gates in the more dangerous systems.
Hmmm "complete immunity" because of instant jumps? What happened to mobile warp disrupters?

Tana Pleiades
Caldari
Galactic Shipyards Inc
Huzzah Federation
Posted - 2005.10.18 23:22:00 - [10]
 

Cheers for the replies. Reasured me that ccp will not ban instas... its way to ingrained into game. However if they could make haulers 10 x faster. (was the millenium falcon a larda with a broken clutch?) or make jump gates very very large so as to make camping them hard or some other compromise I would be all for it.

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.10.19 00:58:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: j0sephine on 19/10/2005 00:59:56

"(was the millenium falcon a larda with a broken clutch?)"

Millenium Falcon was the size of EVE frigate, and could load about as much cargo as one... EVE indies are ~10x bigger, and freighters are ~20-40 times larger than that -.o

Cyberstrike2027
Gallente
Focused Annihilation
Detrimental Imperative
Posted - 2005.10.19 01:18:00 - [12]
 

I have a ity mk5 with 5 27.44% expanders...33,434m3 cargo hold (with 8 cans) but top speed of 80 something m/s

I also have a freighter, 787,000m3 but top speed of 67m/s, and takes a good 10 mins to goto warp Laughing

And, I have an occator, with 6 27.44% expanders, 32,000m3 cargo hold, with speed same as freighter (but hull, armour + shields equivilant of bc/bs Very Happy)


I R T3H K1NG 0F H4UL4G3!!! Twisted EvilTwisted Evil

Eleth Ranc
Posted - 2005.10.19 09:14:00 - [13]
 

Ok I have a definate interesting view point on this one. By my understanding the reason you can't just warp in right on top of something without instas is that it's suposed to be dangerous to do or something similar. Very large structures in space generate a very small gravity well, and frankly I don't think warp drives are supposed to be able to be that precise that close to such things. So yeah I'd like to see them change things to the way they should be, and at the same time still allow for something similar to instas that would not crowd up the servers.

My idea is this, insert into the game a basic function which 'detects' if a book mark would be too close to an object and then automatically alter it as you warp so you'll end up at the correct distance. That would prevent people from trying to BM insta spots, and cut way down on the server load.
Secondly add a skill/module/both which allows you to calibrate your warp drives to more sensative warp points effectively reducing the minimum distance you can warp up to something. Say you can get 2.4km (within 3km with 5 ranks in the skill) closer to large structures/celestial bodies per rank in the skill and perhaps make that same skill only opperate in conjunction with a 'navigational computer' (low slot module which helps you calculate warp routes with greater precision). In order to not make them a mod which you'd be like "grr do I really want to waste a low slot on this thing?" you give it some other benefits as well, like reducing the ammount of cap you use when warping, and even giving you enhanced resistance to warp scramblers.

So yeah I think there is definately an issue that needs looking into here, and I beleive this describes an efective possible solution. Instas don't really make sense with the way the game is supposed to work, so they definately need to do something to change them, but at the same time provide a legal way for players to perform a similar function to 'why' we all use instas as it is.

ph4z0r
Posted - 2005.10.19 13:41:00 - [14]
 

ive never liked the idea of jumpgates since the start of eve, giveing ships the abilty to hyper jump to a random point in the next system along (with the rest of your gang) would of made travel alot safer and more interesting but to alow players intent on attacking u in system there needs to be a tactical long range scanner that shows up exact locations and far more control over warping to alow players a chance to catch a target ship while there hyper jump drives are warming up.

TotensBurntCorpse
Minmatar
Miners of Moria Corp
Posted - 2005.10.19 17:15:00 - [15]
 

insta banning FTW

make 0.0 dangerous patrol your space

dont claim what u cannot hold

Oscar Kain
Amarr
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2005.10.19 23:43:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Oscar Kain on 19/10/2005 23:43:37
Yeah i heard the rumour too and from what i heard the only reason it wasnt done in the last patch is that ccp couldnt find an effective soloution.

It is a tricky issue. I mean after all is it right that a battleship can pass through space as quickly as an interceptor? I think the warp precision skill is a great idea and thought (when i started the game) that there must be a skill or somthing like it that does exactly that.

All being said, i like em and will be sad to see them go if nothing is put in there place.

Samantha Tel'Vellor
Posted - 2005.10.20 06:50:00 - [17]
 

/signed

Fooball
Caldari
Posted - 2005.10.20 10:36:00 - [18]
 

A skill "fast approach" (or named whatever) could work. With each level the ship would be able to warp closer and closer.. An Expensive skill at first to sort out who is a newbie and who not YARRRR!!

Big Moo
Posted - 2005.10.20 23:24:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Big Moo on 20/10/2005 23:25:43
Surely the main point about Micro Warp Drives is that you can close a distance to an object really quickly. Interceptors are excellent for travelling in low sec space - I'm managed to get to a gate and to safety at over 3000mps with pirates trying to target and kill me at a gate. Insta-jumps completely remove the necessity of using MWD, and as has been said earlier on this forum - how can you possibly justify having a BattleShip or Hauler travelling the same speed as an Interceptor?

I vote for an enhanced version of the Warp Core Stabliser to reduce the distance you warp to objects and do away with bookmarks near gates - this is an exploit which should have been closed long ago.

P.S. Any CCP developers with the ability to see the BookMarks I have, please don't let on; otherwise this post will make me look like a hypocrit!ugh

Elfaen Ethenwe
Infusion.
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2005.10.21 09:02:00 - [20]
 

If would be a serious nerf alert if they did get rid of instas.

I would never get out of a ceptor thank you very much.

The issue with BM's is that they are server side.

If they were client side people could edit them and make instas for anywhere once they knew the co-ordinates of teh area.

Picture it. The cov ops sees the sniper fleet camping the gate from 150km away. Rather than fly at them he he get directly below them. bms the spot then edits the BM and adds 150km to the coords.

All theyt need to do is fix the db for instas. Personally I dont want to lose my 9000 or so instas

TotensBurntCorpse
Minmatar
Miners of Moria Corp
Posted - 2005.10.21 16:36:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: El**** Ethenwe
I would never get out of a ceptor thank you very much.

Picture it. The cov ops sees the sniper fleet camping the gate from 150km away. Rather than fly at them he he get directly below them. bms the spot then edits the BM and adds 150km to the coords.

All theyt need to do is fix the db for instas. Personally I dont want to lose my 9000 or so instas


wouldnt the purpose of cov op ship to warp in cloaked, fly to the enemy, declare to buddies that "warp to me" is ready to go, they warp in at the correct engagement distance, the gankers get WTF'd, the cov ops pilot gets a hearty handshake for doing his job by scouting the enemy correctly. no instas needed.

also doesnt instas make your cepter invincible for targeting? also dont forget the gankers will also have to chug to the ganking area and chug away when the cavalry comes. every con has a con which means everyone does time.

Eleth Ranc
Posted - 2005.10.21 17:07:00 - [22]
 

Seriously, people who want to travel super fast 'should' never get out of their ceptors. It makes sense that a battle ship takes longer to warp than an interceptor. Besides without instas maybe people might actually hire escorts for convoys, like they are meant to do.

Noriath
Posted - 2005.10.21 18:13:00 - [23]
 

Yea, Instas should go.

There are two things that CCP should simply remove brutaly and once and for all, instas and alts, when all the idiots who can't do without have left the game, it will come back twice as strong...

TotensBurntCorpse
Minmatar
Miners of Moria Corp
Posted - 2005.10.21 19:26:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Noriath
Yea, Instas should go.

There are two things that CCP should simply remove brutaly and once and for all, instas and alts, when all the idiots who can't do without have left the game, it will come back twice as strong...


Alt i have no problem with. They server various purposes.

Like the free market and "buyer beware" its up to you the player to beware of everyone.

They could be a scouting alt or an actual main character but why penalize ppl for using the other slots they pay for in the game.

I would like to see a thread started with flame throwers on minimum discussing the pros and cons of instas. But it would be interesting to see why they have to go or why they have to stay.

IMHO there is valid points for both but IMHO they dont add to the overall fun of the game, in the contrary they allow for mini cheats to occur that affect everything from game mechanics vs intent right up to how ppl interact with each other.

Noriath
Posted - 2005.10.21 23:38:00 - [25]
 

There are absoloutly no pros to instas.

Fast travel seems like a nice concept, but in reality all it does is shrink the game world to a point where anyone can be anywhere within a very short time, makes the speed of ships even more irrelevant to their relative strength, and on top of that they eliminate the only place in cross system transit where combat can take place...

Gwenvahar
Posted - 2005.10.22 17:09:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Noriath
There are absoloutly no pros to instas.

Fast travel seems like a nice concept, but in reality all it does is shrink the game world to a point where anyone can be anywhere within a very short time, makes the speed of ships even more irrelevant to their relative strength, and on top of that they eliminate the only place in cross system transit where combat can take place...



Lol ya thats all true, but ya know I just don't care. As the potential victem of griefing, gate camping or any other hostile act I haven't decided to participate in; My ability to circumvent combat at any oppertunity is a blessing. BM's protect my assets, save me some time. DEV's can do what they like, as long as I can use BM's I will.. I'd never ever BUY a set from anyone.. The whole copy BM market stuff can go away I'd say.. Do it all your self.

Noriath
Posted - 2005.10.22 17:21:00 - [27]
 

So basicly you take all risk out of lawless space and say that's a good thing? If you want to avoid getting killed you just shouldn't go there, not use an exploit to become basicly invoulnerable.

Maorio
Posted - 2005.10.22 22:50:00 - [28]
 

have anyone checked lately how fast a bs aligns for warp? you'll have neough time to lock scramble take a pizza slice then shoot especailly if you have tackler support so instas isn't the death of ganking as everyone have seen far too many times. but this will be the death of low sec traveling and will increase the server load in empire even more, as I read in a thread someone wanted more people in low sec than there is now.

Noriath
Posted - 2005.10.22 23:46:00 - [29]
 

If they want more people in lowsec they should get rid of alts so pirates can't just swich to another character if they don't feel like being hunted and allow alliances to build safe enclaves where outside traffic is a positive influence, not a deadly threat.

TotensBurntCorpse
Minmatar
Miners of Moria Corp
Posted - 2005.10.25 21:55:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Maorio
so instas isn't the death of ganking as everyone have seen far too many times. but this will be the death of low sec traveling and will increase the server load in empire even more, as I read in a thread someone wanted more people in low sec than there is now.


dont you really mean that alliances would have to shrink in size to more effectively patrol their claimed space ?

in so doing opening up gaps between them to more ppl to move in ?

the load in empire space is already quite high on any given day. just look at the map any day.


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