open All Channels
seplocked Test Server Feedback
blankseplocked 1135: Please let us MWD out of warp
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4

Author Topic

Ubiq
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2003.07.30 13:13:00 - [31]
 

Sound like a good change to me. Good job guys!

Needo
Minmatar
Swedish Academy
Posted - 2003.07.30 13:20:00 - [32]
 

A possible fix that puts us somewhere in between perhaps?

1) You never exit warp at 0 m/s, you always exit at a speed somewhere between your ships base velocity and 2x the ships base velocity (probably + od/skill/nano). I.e. A shuttle exits warp in 600-1200 m/s and a cruiser exits warp in 200-400 m/s.

2) Add a "cancel warp" command that you can use if you get stuck.

That would work for me and put us somewhere in between... Laughing

Jael
Posted - 2003.07.30 13:22:00 - [33]
 

Quote:
The only reason you were able to activate anything during warp up to this time was to give you a chance to use self-defense modules when the warp away from a location took too long to kick in and you couldn't use your weapons back at npc pirates.

The shield booster and shield hardener modules can still be used during warp to solve this problem.


So what about the WarpWaddle effect? How do we break that now? With a shield booster? Or do we just sit in our nice expensive shiny Cruisers, Indies and Battleships for 20 minutes while we negotiate the very pretty stations with the ...er... misguided agility code?

Why does it take so long to turn the last few seconds of arc before warping?

Why do ships get stuck warping after undocking?

I can understand the necessities and 'realities' of a ship having a slower time warping from amongst asteroids, but really, stations that don't eject departing ships far or fast enough to be able to warp? Flay the station designers alive and sell them to the Amarr for use as mops.

Will Agent missions - that will now take longer and longer to run - have their compensation increased?

Will the MWD capacitor nerf be reversed so we can actually use the MWD to get to a jumpgate without taking armour damage, and still subsequently warp more than 10AU?

Can we get a "Trader's Friend" module that allows us to come out of a gate jump with a full capacitor?

Throw us a bone, Richard, while you make the MWD a waste of a slot. As it stands, it's going to have a lot of people sitting around waiting for their capacitor to recharge... marginally more exciting than watching paint dry, since the ubiquitous nebulae are often quite pretty.

Athule Snanm
Amarr
Rien Ici
Posted - 2003.07.30 13:30:00 - [34]
 

The first time I read about this I thought it was a great idea, but the more I mull it over the less I like it.

Basically when you come out of warp at a gate you appear right in front of someone's guns, if you're not in a battleship and the other person is then if you're going slowly you will be dead before you can disengage no matter how high your top speed it. This is exactly what has caused the death of the frigate in most situations. This 'fix' will result in people using battleships for everything from combat and mining (as they already do) to trading (as this will be only safe ship that can fit hardeners and run them long enough to jump). Is that really where people want the game to go? One class of ship fits all?

Some of the other reasons mentioned are also valid, especially the stuck in pre-warp situation.

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2003.07.30 14:12:00 - [35]
 

"When you are stuck next to a roid and activate warp, it automatically subtracts the cap needed to make the warp.
On a long jump, that will not leave much cap to run the sheild hardeners for very long, if they will activate at all."


Note however, your cap recharges while in warp; this means near the exit point you'll usually have enough energy to activate the shields.

On the other hand, disabling the engine boosters in warp does sound rather ill-thought... but oh well.

Jojin
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2003.07.30 14:24:00 - [36]
 

I know it is a bit far fetched, but why not fly under normal engines to reach a safe distance away from the station or asteroid field before activating your warp drive?

I know most players either want instant gratification or a get out of danger button. Instead of complaining about the lack of a way to achieve these 100% of the time, just keep yourself from being in such situations where you encounter these problems.

Or another option would be to implement collision damage from impacting a station or asteroid with a little kick back to push players away from the obstacle. This would be a way to inform the players they are too close. This would be a way to ensure players take a little caution around large objects and keep people from getting stuck for long periods of time.


Doc Brown
Gallente
Capital Construction Research
Pioneer Alliance
Posted - 2003.07.30 15:01:00 - [37]
 

Quote:
The only reason you were able to activate anything during warp up to this time was to give you a chance to use self-defense modules when the warp away from a location took too long to kick in and you couldn't use your weapons back at npc pirates.

The shield booster and shield hardener modules can still be used during warp to solve this problem.


With how MWD is now, it's very much a self-sefense module.

Actually, MWD is more of a self-defense module than Shield Bosters and Shield Hardners. Those come in handy in combat, MWD just hurts a ships combat.

Aileea
Amarr
Posted - 2003.07.30 16:31:00 - [38]
 

Quote:
The only reason you were able to activate anything during warp up to this time was to give you a chance to use self-defense modules when the warp away from a location took too long to kick in and you couldn't use your weapons back at npc pirates.



I don't care much about the original intentions, I care about my playing experience.
This 3rd MWD nerf will make EVE more boring! That's my bottom line.

Do you guys really think that crawling slowly towards jump range 60 times in a row is the best fun to be had in EVE?

Obviously people are using MWD's more often than you had expected, but that's not just because they're superoverpowered(they were nicely balanced 2 nerfs ago) but because they make EVE less tedious. That is the real reason why many of us use them, draw your own conclusions from that and fix the correct problem please.

Iminay
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2003.07.30 16:33:00 - [39]
 

well yes, MWD and the only use it had has now become completely useless.

80% of the community doenst like being shot to pieces by whining griefers who camp a gate.

So, the smart ppl get a MWD, sacrifice 50% schield and rediculous cap usuage to try and run blockades.

No said CCP.. that aint fair. We want more dead ppl. lets make this blockade un-runnable.. Yeah, lets make em drop to no speed out of warp, and give these poor pirates plenty of time to web and scramble while the cruiser purrs out his cap trying to get some speed out of its MWD.

Alot of ppl dont like PVP, but now you seem to make PVP an un-avoidable part of the game. Hell, why dont you just go around and nerf afterburners aswell? Or hey, I know a nice one, lets make the distance you jump into jumpgates 60km, to give these poor pirates some more bloody time to lock onto you.

As for now, Ive waisted time training any of the required skills to use my MWD, aswell as the cap recharging and cap reduction skills, for I'd rather face these pirates with 100% schield when being planted out of warp then with 50% of it.

Endyl
Radio Free Albemuth
Posted - 2003.07.30 16:54:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Endyl on 30/07/2003 16:58:18
EDIT: deleted post. who cares after all...


Meau
Fatal Furballs
Posted - 2003.07.30 17:47:00 - [41]
 

Oh, so we were only "allowed" to use modules to defend us from npc pirates while stuck due to a bug?

1. The bug is still there, shieldboosters wont help, people often get stuck far longer than the warp-depleted cap lasts

2. This change totally kills tactics in gate engagements. There is no way left to run a blockade. There is no way left to even out the lag advantage when engaging campers. The only thing you can do now is warp in with a far superior force and still loose a lot of ships without really harming the campers.

I dont care how the thing was intended to be!
If you want to make the game far worse, far less fun for many players, and far more unbalanced cause of some thought you had some long time ago, go ahead, and ruin it.

Please react to the NOW, not to the BACK THEN, which is the totally wrong way to do it cause the back then you try to balance isnt there any more. Why dont you nerf projectiles a bit more, they have been too powerful a few months ago?

This is so stupid, nobody cares, and im too depressed to write on.
<Meau over>

Tulor
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2003.07.30 19:11:00 - [42]
 

I hearby dub thee the whiniest thread of them all!

enjoy your fun guys.

Aelita
Minmatar
CHON
THE R0NIN
Posted - 2003.07.30 19:49:00 - [43]
 

1st fix this! Then you can even start think about not activate any module during warp. FYI MWD is defensive module!

Stuck in warp start

NeoMorph
Aggressive Faction Defence Technologies
Posted - 2003.07.30 19:52:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: NeoMorph on 31/07/2003 18:51:56
If I understand this right we cant use MWD to give us a boost out of Warp... now I've played this game thru beta and retail and have seen the following

1. We could originally do this... everything fine..
2. CCP stopped it in beta... everone screamed
3. CCP reinstated it.. everone happy
4. CCP now remove it again and everyone is screaming again.

I wish CCP would make up their mind. Sad

If they do this then MWD are basically being nerfed even more and are basically making it easy for the griefers. Perhaps if they are taking this function off the MWDs they should maybe reduce the shield reduction factor to only 25% as opposed to 50%.

Oh and to the guys who mentioned using the MWD to get out of those situations where you dont enter warp... I use the MWD a LOT for this purpose ... so much so that I forget I do it now.. it's just habit to hit MWD when you crawl around trying to line up.

Bobby Wilson
Gallente
Posted - 2003.07.30 19:53:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Bobby Wilson on 30/07/2003 20:34:38
Edited by: Bobby Wilson on 30/07/2003 20:34:03
Quote:


I don't care much about the original intentions, I care about my playing experience.
This 3rd MWD nerf will make EVE more boring! That's my bottom line.

Do you guys really think that crawling slowly towards jump range 60 times in a row is the best fun to be had in EVE?

Obviously people are using MWD's more often than you had expected, but that's not just because they're superoverpowered(they were nicely balanced 2 nerfs ago) but because they make EVE less tedious. That is the real reason why many of us use them, draw your own conclusions from that and fix the correct problem please.


Bingo. Amen and all that.

Having in the past done numerous 40-70 jump rounds trips, I wished they would in fact change this the other way around, so that you could leave ABs on at all times, unless intentionally deactivated. I just want to read my book, clean the kitchen or whatever while I travel, and I'll listen for the sounds of a weapon lock, etc. Having to hit the ABs after every *jump* was bad enough, but at least you had a margin of a minute of so when you could hit them without wasting time.

Having to hit them in the narrow moment after warp and before jump is a ridiculous demand on my attention given all I get to look at during that time is recycled scenery and yet another jumpgate.

Wytch Doktor
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2003.07.30 22:05:00 - [46]
 

Will this effect AB's as well? If not it is workable, you will just have to get some hull mods, and an lif. Maybe their reasoning is that Indies are not meant to run around like stipped assed apes.

I use my probe to run the gauntlets, I dont use a MWD. I can go over 600m/s and usually blow right past the gate campers.

But if it slows me down to zero, just from coming out of warp, forget it. No way can I then sell something over the trade channel, and deliver it. No way.

Tell you what CCP allow me to post my pirate loot in the freakin market. At least then I can maybe sell stuff, without having to run blockades.

No if they do this, they will kill the game for a lot of people. you know when a game begins to die? No one can ever put their finger on the exact point, they all have a point where they said, this was when it started to cough blood.

Well I have a theory that it is when a the number of people playing, gets to a point where you rarely see another person. Then no matter how fun it was, you start to get bored, no player interaction, or very little, and a game dies.

This change will significantly reduce player interaction. IS that ketchup on your chin lickspittle ?

Drutort
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2003.07.30 22:17:00 - [47]
 

lol to the person who said buy a new computer...


well let me tell you i had 900mhz amd and a gef2 and ata 66 hd..

i then went to 2.18ghz and a gef4 ti4200 8x and a 100ata 8mb cache hd..

did the game go any faster in the loading? NOT REALLY AT ALL... my cpu is more then enough and so is my video card, its how the game is coded and how it does the loading etc.


my only thing that i would ask them is to move up the loading time like right when you start to decaccel from warp... so that when you are out of warp you finished LOADING

Drutort
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2003.07.30 22:21:00 - [48]
 

a VERY BIG THING EVERYONE IS MISSING!!

you ppl forget the time it will take you to accel with your MWD how much cap will you have later to JUMP!!

this will make travel ALOT WORSE NOW, because OF SO MUCH CAP EAT UP VS the instant speed of MWD out of warp!!

just do that 20-50 jumps and tell me how MUCH MORE YOU HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE CAP and then rewarping because of LACK of CAP


to balance things the devs have to at least make the MWD now 2x long active time... 5 sec would be enough because well you wont have enough cap to warp after you been using your MWD just to try and reach 2/3 of your speed

StealthNet
Gallente
Posted - 2003.07.30 23:19:00 - [49]
 

I posted it in this same thread, I'll post it again (maybe I was not clear enough).

Some people here are missing the point. Some of you complain about the cap cost of acelerating from ship speed to MWD full speed. Others complain about stuck problems. I think they are *all valid points*.

But understand: battleships ARE already in the game, and they are becoming common. Everywhere you go, you can spot one. Now, what is considered an uber setting, weapon, config ? In my opinion, an uber setting / config is the one that leave NO options to the opponent.

With this implementation, there are NO, I repeat, there are NO means of getting out of a blockade, if it is done right.

2 scorpions can jam EVERYTHING that flies in EVE, EVEN if it is already fitted with a +2 sensor booster, or EVEN 4 (!!!!) warp core stabilizers.

So, from now on, the PERFECT blockade:

2 scorpions, and another battleship fitted to destroy.
Both scorpions fitted with multispectrals, webbers and scramblers and any device that might reduce the target lock time.

You drop from warp at default ship speed. That's something around 115 to 500 m/s. You have 7 seconds to jump. If you don't, you will be jammed, scrambled, and webbied. You can go nowhere, you can do nothing, only pray (ah! you can pay the "tax" to the friendly pirate that just jammed you and have at least 6 weapons locked at you - and hope that he won't fire at you even if you pay - because of your modules).

Thats a loose-loose it all situation.

Please CCP, remove the restrictions of MWD modules. That would compensate to some extent.

Entity
X-Factor Industries
Synthetic Existence
Posted - 2003.07.31 00:38:00 - [50]
 

Maybe well just have to get some CCP people to actually PLAY this game at least 10 hours a day like any normal addict does. See if they still wanna make such ******ed changes that only make the existing ANNOYING bugs/quirks hit you harder.

1. stupid: stuck against roid/station = go make a coffee, maybe when you come back you're free.
Tonight I had to repeatedly ram a corpmate using my MWD to free him from his roid prison, allowing him to warp out.

2. stupid: roid collission spheres. 2km space between 2 roids, I navigate precisely inbetween the two roids, and you get an effect someone else in my corp accurately described as 'pinball', even tho you're not even touching the roids. This same thing also happens with the really flat caldari station.

2a. stupid too: warping to a belt to find yourself INSIDE an asteroid. Did Microsoft prevail 27k years in the future and write the ship's navigation software or what?

3. stupid: jumping into the center of a previously-visited station when you enter the system again. wtf is up with this? sure, it's a shortcut if you actually wanted to go there, but... errhhm... ... lol?

4. stupid: ships benefitting from MWD have such a ridiculously slow acceleration, you can't possibly get to decent speed anytime soon. (one advantage is that webbys can't slow you down fast either, though)

5. stupid: large ships have such ridiculously low agility, it takes several eternities to ALIGN the bloody ship WITHOUT a MWD, especially if you're flying in another direction already and need to turn. It seems to progressively slow down the turning speed as the ship nears its designated bearing.

Address these problems FIRST before you take your planet-sized nerf-anvil and drop it on top of us all, thank you very much.


DJvGalen
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2003.07.31 10:32:00 - [51]
 

I dunno what to make of this, just means I can do even less in the 2 hours that i CAN play on weekdays. I now use 2 Cold Gas afterburners so I can do 2 more agent missions on a weekday and I paid ALOT for them cause, well another nerf.

I'm fast loosing fun this way. I figure out something, you screw it, I find alternate route, you screw it, I buy expensive modules, you screw it.

Hey, I bought a invulnerability field last night, why don't you screw that too ? Only cost me 2.5 million, 210k skill and 24 hours training another skill Crying or Very sad

You even screwed my forum image yesterday Confused

PS: Trying very hard to stay optimistic...

StealthNet
Gallente
Posted - 2003.07.31 11:36:00 - [52]
 

DJvGalen

Would you be surprised to know that that module, the invulnerability field, has been nerfed ? Yes, thats right, that module used to be useful, with a 10 second activation time. Now it has a 2.something activation.

Go figure. And thats because they want battles to last longer.

DJvGalen
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2003.07.31 12:26:00 - [53]
 

Quote:
DJvGalen

Would you be surprised to know that that module, the invulnerability field, has been nerfed ? Yes, thats right, that module used to be useful, with a 10 second activation time. Now it has a 2.something activation.

Go figure. And thats because they want battles to last longer.

That's just plain stupid, because we want battles to last longer we reduce the 40% protection from all damagetypes from 10 seconds to 2 seconds...

I fail to see the logic in that, if anything that would shorten battles not extend them.

drunkenmaster
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2003.07.31 16:50:00 - [54]
 

Galen, they nerfed their hardeners due to the fact that with them at 10 seconds, a BS could have 96% resists indefinitely.

now it can still have 96% resists, but only for a short while.

Basically, they were too powerful.

Aldebaran
Posted - 2003.07.31 17:44:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Aldebaran on 31/07/2003 17:48:19
To my surprise, I flew thru an asteroid today on TQ. Looks like they have removed the collision detection codes? There is no doubt that this is done in preparation for disallowing turning on the mwd during warp. At least this should fix the stuck at station or stuck at roid problem.
Anyone seeing this, or is it just me?

Now if they would also fix the fact that you have to go to 0 speed before you can accelerate to the gate, then I would not whine too much about nerfing the mwd in the next patch.

NeoMorph
Aggressive Faction Defence Technologies
Posted - 2003.07.31 18:59:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: NeoMorph on 31/07/2003 18:59:21
Quote:
Edited by: Aldebaran on 31/07/2003 17:48:19
To my surprise, I flew thru an asteroid today on TQ. Looks like they have removed the collision detection codes? There is no doubt that this is done in preparation for disallowing turning on the mwd during warp. At least this should fix the stuck at station or stuck at roid problem.
Anyone seeing this, or is it just me?



Aldebaran, some roids you can fly thru (I have a nice pic of me mining an Ark roid from the inside somewhere... but the big scordite and veldspar roids still cause probs.

I've said this before, they got the sequence wrong for warp jumps... it should allow you to cancel warp any time until you are lined up and only take the cap and remove targetting when you are finally lined up... at least you can use MWD to get away from the roid if you cancel the jump...

Another way would be to remove all targetting as soon as you hit jump... there is nothing worse than sitting there being a target with no cap and not moving... allowing the rats to go "HA HA" in Nelsons voice as they blow the crap out of you. Mad

Fusco T
Posted - 2003.07.31 22:44:00 - [57]
 

I'm gonna post here too, as most stuff has already been stated, I will suffice it to say I DON'T AGREE with the MWD while in warp change.

1) I have trained my skills to include a MWD including many levels of cap recharge, AB, Nav, High speed Manv.

2) It is the only way to un hook off of roids, docks.

3) Travel time.

4) Travel time.

5) Travel time.

Drunk,

Don't assume people are stupid please. AB and a shield hardner? That supposed to be satire?

I could lock you down and kill you in a badger II if I could get a lock on you. The only reason MWD works in the first place is that it disallows anough lock time. You take that away and you kill at least 3 times the numbers you do now.

I can see the pirate corps now wetting themselves waiting for this patch to go live as is.

Doc Brown
Gallente
Capital Construction Research
Pioneer Alliance
Posted - 2003.08.01 00:03:00 - [58]
 

Quote:

I can see the pirate corps now wetting themselves waiting for this patch to go live as is.


Pirate corps?? They're not the only ones...

I'm most likely going to go pirate if this actually comes to pass!

StealthNet
Gallente
Posted - 2003.08.01 02:33:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: StealthNet on 01/08/2003 02:41:18
Edited by: StealthNet on 01/08/2003 02:39:51
Quote:
Galen, they nerfed their hardeners due to the fact that with them at 10 seconds, a BS could have 96% resists indefinitely.

now it can still have 96% resists, but only for a short while.

Basically, they were too powerful.


They were not, and, btw, tacs are not stacking like they used to. Fit a thermal tac and do a show info of your ship, and give me the shield thermal resistance. t will read 76%.

That was the time where there were no BS in the game. Now you have tech lvl2 weapon upgrades and guns that can make as much damage as the guns before the nerfing, firing at an awesome ROF of even 3 secs (back then, you were not able to fit lots of WUs, but now you are). And I'm not even talking about large guns, only up to meds.

Whats the point of using a module that eats up your cap (yes, not only the activation time got lowered, but the cost has been increased) ? Run out of cap, you are dead. GO projectiles and use it ? Nah, I'd rather buy a dominix or a scorpion and fit 3 tac shields that give me 70% protection. Even 4 tacs spend less cap than an invul field. I can't see the logic in it.

Back to the topic, now I can see that you guys are understanding the point. If you get locked, bye bye my dear, go grab some food, drink a coke, to get back to your PC and see your char in the clone facility. No matter how many tacs you use, 1 battleship sucking 200 dmg per second will get you down in 75 seconds (*EVEN IF you are flying a high end battleship WITHOUT a MWD), and Im being way too conservative.

Do a small test if you are flying a BS: get your best dmg gear, go to a 50K NPC pirate respawn. lock him, and open up: time it. If you are already a pirate, well, you may do that with a PC tho Rolling Eyes

drunkenmaster
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2003.08.01 09:25:00 - [60]
 

Fusco, I don't believe I called anyone stupid.

And maybe I was wrong about the reason for the shield hardner fix, but it was because pirates were using them, basically, and having an invulnerable ship.

Also, I don't have a battleship, and don't intend to get one anytime soon.

And if your mwd doesn't accelerate fast enough for you be be totally invulnerable, stick an AB next to it.

Personally, I never bothered using an MWD out of warp, as my skills at it were so high that I overshot 1/3 of the gates, at about 3.5km/s.

Here's my suggestion for a funny fix:

Allow MWD'ing out of warp, but have the ships drop out of warp on the far side of the gate.

Then rather than sit there and watch them pound through the gate all night on MWD's, we can watch them appear and shoot off 50km into the distance, before slowly coming to a halt.

How's that sound?

PS. Bear in mind you are requesting that CCP don't fix an oversight in the code. This was never supposed to be possible in the first place.

C'mon, only needing *one* device to get you through *any* amount of hostility, guaranteed? Doesn't seem right.

The only counter for this would be to give other people a device that is similarly effective in stopping them.

And that would go down like a ton of bricks, wouldn't it?


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only