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blankseplocked How to beat a raven in an apoc?
 
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RedClaws
Amarr
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2005.08.25 19:02:00 - [1]
 

Ok i tried almost everything. Me in a pvpsetup apoc versus a pve'ing raven

I tried nos, gank, tank.

Nos test1(4 nosses, 1 neut, 3 dual heavy beams) :

- Couldn't do enough damage to make the raven use his shield booster much.
- Could only tank the damage from the raven for a bit till cap ran out.
- Result : Raven still lots of cap left and hitting hard, apoc hitting like a wuss and without cap.

Nos test2(3 nosses, 5 dual heavy beams):
- Couldn't break the ravens tank , he had to shieldboost occasionally tho
- Could tank the damage from the raven but only till cap ran out
- Result : Raven still with lots of cap left and hitting hard, apoc hitting raven but not enough to make his cap go dry.

Gank test1(7 heatsinks II, 7 tachs and tracking comps/ sensor boosters)
- Raven setup1 was able to tank it till its cap ran dry ofcourse he could also shoot me and kill me since apoc wasn't tanked
- Raven setup2 wasn't able to take the damage but still able to kill apoc faster than apoc killed raven.

Gank test2(6 tachs,2 rocket launchers with defenders,6 heatsinks,large shield booster and invulnerability shield)
- Raven setup1 Was able to tank it and kill me (altho it took longer than gank test1 to kill me)
- Raven setup2 wasn't able to tank the damage and wasn't able to kill the apoc fast enough : this one the apoc won because this raven still uses a large shield booster instead of an x-large. Raven died with access cap.


Result :
Unable to beat a x-large shield boosting raven with an apoc using nosses or ganking. Apoc can only tank raven by using 2x large armor rep and 3 hardeners, its needs 4 midslots and 2 lowslots for cap recharge.

In pvp you need atleast a scrambler : this uses one midslot and thus the apoc cannot tank the raven damage forever anymore. Result of this fight : apoc dies slowly because it cannot deliver enough firepower to damage raven enough so that it has to shieldboost a lot


Please give me a good option to kill a raven in an apoc in 1 on 1 without using ECM

I know details are scetchy but i can't remember everything like the raven setups and numbers.

Aegis Osiris
Gallente
Peanut Factory
Posted - 2005.08.25 19:10:00 - [2]
 

1. Were you using good named or tech 2 armor repairs?
2. What was the rest of your setup?
3. What was the range?
4. Drones?


These are kinda important. However, I'd suggest tryin this setup with 4 nos, 4 megapulse or dual heavy, tank in low and squeeze in a dmg mod or two. Your problem with the first setup is that the heavy neut killed your cap, even with the nosses going. Use the nos alone, it should support your tank well enough. Realize that shieldboosting is very cap intensive, so it'll only work for a limited time. Once it fails, the ship should go down quickly.

Thanit
Posted - 2005.08.25 19:10:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Thanit on 25/08/2005 19:12:34
Edited by: Thanit on 25/08/2005 19:12:19
Use two caldari racial ecm's and good ew skills.

Chances are he's not counting on it and not bringing fof's anyway.

oh, sorry, didnt see the no-ecm clause.

Try doing something he doesn't expect (like dealing exposive or kinetic damage by using projectiles on him)

RedClaws
Amarr
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2005.08.25 19:20:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: RedClaws on 25/08/2005 19:20:26
Originally by: Aegis Osiris

1. Were you using good named or tech 2 armor repairs?
2. What was the rest of your setup?
3. What was the range?
4. Drones?


These are kinda important. However, I'd suggest tryin this setup with 4 nos, 4 megapulse or dual heavy, tank in low and squeeze in a dmg mod or two. Your problem with the first setup is that the heavy neut killed your cap, even with the nosses going. Use the nos alone, it should support your tank well enough. Realize that shieldboosting is very cap intensive, so it'll only work for a limited time. Once it fails, the ship should go down quickly.


1. they were large tech 2's
2. In which case? they all differ each time
3. range was always the optimal of my guns with multifreqs, raven was forced to stay at 0m/s as an extra rule
4. Drones get blown up by the raven smartbomb each time

It is impossible to fit heatsinks and still maintain a 2x LAR II tank like i said in a tankink apoc you need 2x LAR , 3x hardener and 2x cap relay + 4x cap recharger if you want to sustain all that while firing your guns.

a tech 2 LAR takes up around 35 cap/s and a nos gives 10cap/s so you need 4 nosses if you want to sustain 1 LAR with only nosses.

Trouble with that is even if you can get the ravens cap to be dry he can still fire, you still need to be able to tank that while you finish him off slowly and thats impossible if you rely on nosses to provide you with power for the LAR's.

Shieldboosting is cap intensive correct but you first need to do damage before he boosts : more nosses = less damage so you need to find some sort of balance.

Thanit : the raven is set up so it has equal resists across the board.

Isonkon Serikain
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2005.08.25 19:29:00 - [5]
 

did you try using smartbombs?

RedClaws
Amarr
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2005.08.25 19:35:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Isonkon Serikain
did you try using smartbombs?

*blink* ? 8 smartbombs , 1 scrambler, 1 webber and rest cap recharge? euhm well you will have to get in REAL close and if you don't have that he'll blow you up before you get to him

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.08.25 19:51:00 - [7]
 

"8 smartbombs , 1 scrambler, 1 webber and rest cap recharge?"

I think he meant timed smartbomb or two to kill some of the incoming missiles, thus reducing Raven's damage somewhat...

El Principe
Caldari
VentureCorp
Posted - 2005.08.25 19:51:00 - [8]
 

I think he meant: "Were you using smart bombs to kill the torps... instead of defenders.."
if you time it right, you can really mess up a raven pilot..
I know. i fly Raven and Apoc.

Next, how are your skills?
Since you got TII Large guns im guessing you also got
Cap skills lv5, Amarr BS 5...
in which case, nvm.

Third, from what i've found in testing various Raven setups. You were fighting what i like to call a "One trick Raven"
i.e. a Torp+Gank Raven: Torps, and BCU's, sure its a killer 1v1-BSvBS setup, but thats ALL it is. Small ships and ECM will beat it almost every time.

My suggestion. Apoc's dont really get a Laser dmg bonus, so why use them? Use Arties, its a nasty surpize.

But all-in-all, the current state of EVE PvP is not very supportive of a ship like the Apoc, whose bonuses revolve, one way or another, around tanking, and anything short of using 3x Large Reppers + NOS + Arties wont get you far Crying or Very sad

It doesnt change the fact that Apoc is still one of the best Fleet/Group Ships in the game.

Douglas McCracken
Posted - 2005.08.25 20:01:00 - [9]
 

Did you try dual neut, 6 MP II cap rechargers + booster and a heavy tank.. befor the patch i managed to force a draw, basically the raven ran out of torps Razz

DrunkenOne
Unknown Soldiers
B O R G
Posted - 2005.08.25 20:03:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: DrunkenOne on 25/08/2005 20:04:29
8 mega neutron blaster IIs 7 mag stab IIs

win.

El Principe
Caldari
VentureCorp
Posted - 2005.08.25 20:09:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: DrunkenOne
Edited by: DrunkenOne on 25/08/2005 20:04:29
8 mega neutron blaster IIs 7 mag stab IIs

win.


HAHA! w0rd!
but will it fit? YARRRR!!

Randay
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2005.08.25 20:13:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Randay on 25/08/2005 20:16:43
4 neut 3 nos 1 gun
3 cap boosters 1 scramble
full tank

win

but your first setup with 2 or 3 neuts instead of 1 should also be able to do it.

RedClaws
Amarr
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2005.08.25 20:22:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: RedClaws on 25/08/2005 20:23:29
Randay:
Lol why would that be? 1 gun? ravne only needs cap to shieldboost you know so even if you suck em dry what then? he'll kill you with torps

DrunkenOne : I can't use large hybrids :p but its worth a shot i guess

Using smartbombs would take my cap down even faster : not a good idea


just as a sidenote : normalised dam mod (rof / dam mod) higher is better right?

JoCool
Caldari
Posted - 2005.08.25 20:35:00 - [14]
 

7 guns, one smartbomb
Cap Rechargers
Armor tank, Heat Sink II, CPR

Should do it


Hellraiza666
Viziam
Posted - 2005.08.25 20:35:00 - [15]
 

what about jamming???

6 nos
2 mega pulse or dual heavy pulse

1 20km warp disruptor
2 caldari jammers
1 cap injector

2 large armor reps
4 hardeners
1 adaptive nano

never fitted this be4 so i aint perfectly certain if it fits, but i got a similar set up that fits that i use, but that aint for discussing Razz

RedClaws
Amarr
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2005.08.25 20:37:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: JoCool
7 guns, one smartbomb
Cap Rechargers
Armor tank, Heat Sink II, CPR

Should do it




doubt it : not enough damage i think, he'll tank it and i'll run out of cap before him.

and no ECM-rule (but then again he'll use F.O.F.'s if you do)

Randay
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2005.08.25 20:55:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: RedClaws
Edited by: RedClaws on 25/08/2005 20:23:29
Randay:
Lol why would that be? 1 gun? ravne only needs cap to shieldboost you know so even if you suck em dry what then? he'll kill you with torps

DrunkenOne : I can't use large hybrids :p but its worth a shot i guess

Using smartbombs would take my cap down even faster : not a good idea


just as a sidenote : normalised dam mod (rof / dam mod) higher is better right?


1 gun might not be enough depending on the skill difference between pilots, but you would be surprised. your other setup with 3 guns will do it if you change some nos for neuts. I dont see how a raven will be able to break your full tank before you suck his cap dry and kill him unless he has max skills and all t2 modules, in which case you would be simply outclassed unless you also had max skills and all t2 modules.

Gronsak
Amarr
Posted - 2005.08.26 00:49:00 - [18]
 

i use a geddon for anti ravens. eats their shields fast
same should apply to apoc

get into range of multi frequency crystals


as many mega pulse t2 lasers as u can fit / best named/even t1
a medium or large cap injecter with 800s. web. scram, tracking comp if its an apoc
use 6t2 heat sink. 2 1600mm tungsten

as many explosive drones as u can use

with my geddon, i can kill a raven tank fast. usually i am left with around 50% armor left

anotehr trick that works, if they are fireing their torps all at once. a large or 2 medium smartbombs will blow them up :P


 

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