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Wrayeth
EdgeGamers
Situation: Normal
Posted - 2005.08.18 14:50:00 - [1]
 

It's been noted and agreed upon by most in the Ships and Modules forum that the Cerberus is vastly underpowered in every area compared to other HACs. Its damage output isn't anywhere near where it should be, and it runs out of capacitor too fast to effectively tank. Here are some proposed suggestions:

Increase max capacitor.

Adjust the Cerberus' ship bonuses as follows:

Change the missile damage bonus to ALL missile types, not just kinetic (which is the most tanked damage type in the game - worthless, especially with a low starting DPS before the bonus).

Keep rate of fire and missile velocity bonuses.

Change the range bonus (which is basically useless due to missile flight time) to a 10% reduction in launcher reload time per level. This would more effectively allow the Cerberus to exploit its ability to switch up damage types - its DPS would still be somewhat substandard, but the ability to more quickly switch to a damage type that suits the target's vulnerabilities ought to put it on the same level as the other races' HACs.

I feel that, combined, these changes would make the Cerberus an effective tool in PvP.

luckyducky
Posted - 2005.08.31 03:26:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: luckyducky on 31/08/2005 03:29:53
All I can say is, if you're having trouble with capacitor or Dmg then you aren't using the ship appropriately or you are vastly under the amount of skill training needed to effectively use the ship.

I can run a T2 Med shield booster non stop and pour out an insain amount of damage from 96km (for a Cruiser) like it's a joke.... No other HAC comes close to the dmg I can pout out at that range. No, it might not be teh best DoT ship of the 8, but it's the tradeoff you take.

P.S. Officer spawns in 0.0 fear me Smile

Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2005.08.31 07:32:00 - [3]
 

the dmg the cerb does isnt even enough to kill a frig in one volley, and a frig dont waits 20seconds, mwd on standing still so u do dmg on it.

when the frig is approaching u with more then 3000ms u o less then 10 dmg per missile, purely insane ya.


a cruiser can tank u or warp out, without ahving to worry, a hac laughs at u, same does a bs.


sniping + missiles is a nono in pvp.

SpeedoMan
Caldari
Posted - 2005.08.31 17:28:00 - [4]
 

The problem is with the sig radius and velocity nerf of all missile types. It was overkill, and shouldn't have been done. Now that we're stuck with the skills, the skill points need to be either allowed to reallocate & the skills retracted, or the stats for the skills & missiles adjusted upwardly to counteract the over-nerf. :/

Cerb would be just fine & dandy with old missiles and that 6th missile launcher slot. I'd take the old, slow missiles with constant damage over the new fast ones anyday.

fl0pski
Viper-Squad
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2005.09.03 04:23:00 - [5]
 

Some EM res on the shields would be nice...

Shimpu
Sensory Overload
Posted - 2005.09.03 09:22:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Shimpu on 03/09/2005 09:22:38
Originally by: luckyducky
Edited by: luckyducky on 31/08/2005 03:29:53
All I can say is, if you're having trouble with capacitor or Dmg then you aren't using the ship appropriately or you are vastly under the amount of skill training needed to effectively use the ship.

I can run a T2 Med shield booster non stop and pour out an insain amount of damage from 96km (for a Cruiser) like it's a joke.... No other HAC comes close to the dmg I can pout out at that range. No, it might not be teh best DoT ship of the 8, but it's the tradeoff you take.

P.S. Officer spawns in 0.0 fear me Smile


You realize he is talking about PvP? The Cerberus is a nice ship for missions (as most other HACs are) BUT has lacking capabilities in Player-versus-Player gaming. Since missiles are still considerably slower than guns AND have a generally lower DPS - trying to snipe at 100km with those heavy missiles doesn't help much.

P.S.: Remember there's not only roid raping and belt hugging Wink

Shimpu
Sensory Overload
Posted - 2005.09.03 09:26:00 - [7]
 

I think changing bonuses for the Cerberus will help but isn't the solution. For those interested read linky thingie. This would bring guns and missiles on par and would make npcers and pvpers happy. yes?!

Elrathias
Caldari
Legio Prima Victrix
Posted - 2005.09.03 21:05:00 - [8]
 

remove the 5% kinetic dmg bonus, replace with 10% light and heavy missile damage.

yes, it really is neccesary to get its dps up there with even an ishtar.

Jim Raynor
Caldari
Bad Kitty Inc.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2005.09.04 08:51:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Jim Raynor on 04/09/2005 08:59:51
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 04/09/2005 08:51:35
First of all Understand the Cerberus
The Cerberus isn't like the Zealot or Deimos.

You just can't stuff it into someones face and annihilate them with your amazing DPS.

The Cerberus is probably the most damaging HAC from 40-60KM, if you use scourge heavy missiles. If you don't, you're losing 25% of your DPS, which is insane.

The Cerberus' design is not bad. It just needs a few boosts and it will be one of the best HACs out there.

The Caldari are Missile Users -- Give Us a True MISSILE DAMAGE BONUS
Like Wrayeth says, the 5% kinetic missile damage bonus is garbage. Why does it suck? A Cerberus doesn't do a lot of DPS, period. It just doesn't, all of the HAC except the Eagle and Sacriledge out damage the Cerberus. I would say it's in the bottom three in damage dealing. Giving the Cerberus (and let's face it, all caldari ships with the kinetic bonus) a universal missile damage bonus simply allows you to be more versatile while keeping the DPS fairly low. It's an okay trade off.

Don't boohoo missiles can do all types of damage me okay? An Ishtar does way more DPS than my Cerberus and he can pick whatever types of drones he wants, he's more versatile, his ship is tanked tighter than a clams ass, he's got nosferatu ready to suck you dry if you get too close, and he probably is loaded with electronic warfare on top of that.

Boost the Capacitor
The Cerberus needs a stronger capacitor, period. 850, is not enough, a large t2 shield booster runs my ship dry in only a few cycles. Please boost it to 1,000. Now you might say, but Jimmeh you stupid whiner, the Cerberus doesn't use cap on its weapons! Okay that's true, so why does the Muninn get 1,000 cap with the same recharge as the Cerberus? Why does the Ishtar get more capacitor when it has its drones doing 90% of the offense? The Cerberus has the same capacitor as the Vagabond.. the fastest, lowest signature radius, HAC out there.

This is a ship that goes 1,100m/s with a 10mn afterburner II, and is usually shield tanked amazingly well (better than the Cerberus can tank by miles) and does more DPS on top of that, yeah -- okay. Boost the Cerberus' cap so I can at least run a large shield booster, thanks.

Flight Time Bonus REALLY SUCKS
Again as Wrayeth states, the 10% flight time bonus is useless. Yeah okay cool my heavy missiles go 160km or more, awesome. Too bad I can't kill anything at that range, it's worthless to fight from that range. I really don't want to fit two sensor booster IIs and wait 30 seconds for my missiles to inflict damage. Give the Cerberus a useful bonus in it's place, I honestly DO NOT CARE what it is, as long as it makes the ship more effective, anything is better than 10% flight time/lvl.

In Summary
That's all the Cerberus needs, boost to cap, dmg bonus applied to all missiles, and a useful fourth bonus. Give the Cerberus that and it's a top notch HAC on par with all the other HAC.

Then we can start a thread on the Eagle, I guess!

Some other 'demands':
1) Missile Launcher implants that effect ROF/DMG, like turret users get.
2) Tech2 Ballistic Controls please???
3) Please increase the HP given by shield extenders and make them a bit easier to fit, they use up insane amounts of CPU with half the benefit of an armored plate.
4) Perhaps tweak the missile damage system a little bid, it's very harsh, especially on heavy missiles. Light missiles can't even do damage to interceptors, it's pretty bad.

Oh and one last note. Ballistic Controls use up too much CPU. Please for the love of God lower the tech1 to 30 CPU and make the tech2 35 (same as every other races weapons). Damage mods for lasers/hybrids/projectiles all use 30 CPU, but not for missiles, its 35 for tech1, that means it will be 40 for tech2, that is 'bad' as I am already CPU strapped on most of my Caldari ships because my 1) launchers 2) shields 3) dmg mods are eating up tons of CPU.

CCP, please read this. :(

luckyducky
Posted - 2005.09.04 21:56:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
the dmg the cerb does isnt even enough to kill a frig in one volley, and a frig dont waits 20seconds, mwd on standing still so u do dmg on it.

when the frig is approaching u with more then 3000ms u o less then 10 dmg per missile, purely insane ya.


a cruiser can tank u or warp out, without ahving to worry, a hac laughs at u, same does a bs.


sniping + missiles is a nono in pvp.


ummm... you really haven't tried this ship out have you... any MWD frig is dead in one volley... the sig hurts it way too much. As for the rest of the frigs... they generally die in 2-3 volleys...50 dmg per missle x 5 bays. Train your skills

Tovarishch
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2005.09.05 03:53:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Tovarishch on 05/09/2005 04:12:09

Originally by: luckyducky
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
the dmg the cerb does isnt even enough to kill a frig in one volley, and a frig dont waits 20seconds, mwd on standing still so u do dmg on it.

when the frig is approaching u with more then 3000ms u o less then 10 dmg per missile, purely insane ya.


a cruiser can tank u or warp out, without ahving to worry, a hac laughs at u, same does a bs.


sniping + missiles is a nono in pvp.


ummm... you really haven't tried this ship out have you... any MWD frig is dead in one volley... the sig hurts it way too much. As for the rest of the frigs... they generally die in 2-3 volleys...50 dmg per missle x 5 bays. Train your skills


Total BS. Any frigate heading toward the missiles with an MWD might be dead. Away from the missiles and an MWD serves as huge damage reduction. More misinformation from people just talking... talking... talking... saying nothing.

Till CCP offers a module that allows you to remotely control an enemy frigate and activate their MWD will the previous post be true. But... most people who use missiles already knew that...

PS. Saying things like, 'Train your skills' is moronic... some of us are nearing or have broken 5 or 6 million skill points in missiles. The 'Train your skills' line was catchy about, oh, two months ago.

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.09.05 05:51:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: j0sephine on 05/09/2005 05:53:35

"Flight Time Bonus REALLY SUCKS
(..)
Give the Cerberus a useful bonus in it's place, I honestly DO NOT CARE what it is, as long as it makes the ship more effective, anything is better than 10% flight time/lvl."


5% bonus to shield resistances per level, maybe? It'd help to patch that EM resistance hole a bit, and would help with tanking overall despite lukewarm cap and limited number of med slots ... if Caldari are supposed to shield tank it'd make a bit of sense to give some incentive for it. (Eagle gets the shield booster bonus, so overall it'd make the HACs similar but not identical in this aspect)

(that'd give Cerberus with fully trained HAC skill 25/70/77.5/85 resistances on shield... well, maybe that's too much, dunno :/

Zaldiri
Caldari
Automated Industries
Posted - 2005.09.06 20:50:00 - [13]
 

Would replacing the bonuss to flight time with a missile speed bonus be helpfull?

Then damage would be done fater while reatining the range boost.


Jim Raynor
Caldari
Bad Kitty Inc.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2005.09.06 21:42:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Zaldiri
Would replacing the bonuss to flight time with a missile speed bonus be helpfull?

Then damage would be done fater while reatining the range boost.




it would be useful, but it would also push missiles up to about 13km/s with max skills, i dunno if the server can handle tons of missiles going that fast.. if it could, i would love that bonus though

Rigsta
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
Posted - 2005.09.06 22:09:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Rigsta on 06/09/2005 22:13:15
"the dmg the cerb does isnt even enough to kill a frig in one volley"

I beleive that's by design and will never change. Guns also have a similar damage modifier in place, though not as severe since a big ship firing at a small ship will miss alot (unless sniping at 50km+ optimal), whereas missiles never miss and don't have an optimal range. (Correct me if I'm wrong on that, to be precise I've never seen a missile miss). The very object for a frigate or an elite frigate is to be hard for a larger ship to hit.

Someone also mentioned the Ishtar... drones have plenty of drawbacks of their own.

Missiles may do less damage per hit now than they used to but they still have 100% accuracy unless I'm very much mistaken.

Orius Nix
Posted - 2005.09.11 01:42:00 - [16]
 

How about a bonus that off sets the sig and speed nerf done to missles

Mr Popov
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2005.09.11 02:46:00 - [17]
 

You are sounding like a broken record Jim Raynor.

Unforunately nobody is listening to take it off the turntable.


 

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