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blankseplocked How hard is it to make a scanning system that works in 3D ?
 
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Phasics
Imperium Technologies
Posted - 2005.07.20 23:51:00 - [1]
 

I mean surely it would be as simple as.

ship sits in one spot.
lanches 4 probes in 4 differnt directions using a warp lancuher which propells them 1/2 thier scan range

thus making a 4 point pyramid.

if ship is within scan range of of all 4 scan probes then give bookmark (include accuracy penatly if longer than 3au).

and wow look a scanning system hat works in 3D and is readily useable and effective.

no?

Redeol
Posted - 2005.07.20 23:58:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Redeol on 20/07/2005 23:59:32
3D would be nice, a pocket of space so to speak, here is why i agree or dont get how the probes work right now.

what i dont get it when i launch 3 probes at the same spot, or 3 in a triangle, when i know the ship i look for is there because its my alt, but i can't bloody find anything, am i doing something wrong here ?

the way i see it e.g. using 12 AU probes: you can either make a triangle and besure that the 12 AU probes are within 12 AU of each other, or you launch 3 probes at the same spot if you know the one you are looking for is within 12 AU.

right ? or no... Confused


Sadist
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2005.07.21 00:30:00 - [3]
 

You dont need 4 probes to find an exact position of something in space.

Probes need to have spherical scanning, not ellipsoid like we have atm.

Nikko Forte
Amarr
Dead Flesh Corp
Posted - 2005.07.21 00:32:00 - [4]
 

btw i dont think players ships appear on the scanner with probes.

just empty ships that have been left stupidly in space.

Orb Lati
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2005.07.21 00:41:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Sadist
You dont need 4 probes to find an exact position of something in space.

Probes need to have spherical scanning, not ellipsoid like we have atm.


Thats incorrect. typical triangulation with 3 probes (based on object distance from probes with no vector info) will provide 2 probable locations of an object in 3dimensional space. 1 location will be above the plan generated by the 3 points of the probes while another location will be the "mirror" spot below the plane.

The 4th probe eliminates 1 of these spots and there for is required for full 3d triangulation.

Icarus Starkiller
Forge Regional Security
Posted - 2005.07.21 01:33:00 - [6]
 

Logic would seem to dictate that scan probes work in a sphere, just like the *normal* passive scanner does.

But no... never grand CCP much in the department of common sense for some things.

Also, with the passive scanner, why is it always zoomed out to the maximum resolution despite being only able to scan about 11 au? Would it be truly that difficult to give it an ability to zoom into a particular planet and show its orbital bodies rather than the entire system?

And display a circle on the overview that defines the radii of your current scan range?

Sadist
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2005.07.21 04:10:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Orb Lati
Originally by: Sadist
You dont need 4 probes to find an exact position of something in space.

Probes need to have spherical scanning, not ellipsoid like we have atm.


Thats incorrect. typical triangulation with 3 probes (based on object distance from probes with no vector info) will provide 2 probable locations of an object in 3dimensional space. 1 location will be above the plan generated by the 3 points of the probes while another location will be the "mirror" spot below the plane.

The 4th probe eliminates 1 of these spots and there for is required for full 3d triangulation.


Oh, yea, thanks for reminding me. Embarassed

Nicole KholdStare
Gallente
Northstar Syndicate
Posted - 2005.07.21 08:15:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Nikko Forte
btw i dont think players ships appear on the scanner with probes.

just empty ships that have been left stupidly in space.


Incorrect :) I've been using probes to find manned and empty ships with success so far. Granted I track my target down to under 3 AU and then use the snoops to find it...works very well really provided the target doesn't warp around :).

Monty Burns
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2005.07.21 08:57:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Sadist
Originally by: Orb Lati
Originally by: Sadist
You dont need 4 probes to find an exact position of something in space.

Probes need to have spherical scanning, not ellipsoid like we have atm.


Thats incorrect. typical triangulation with 3 probes (based on object distance from probes with no vector info) will provide 2 probable locations of an object in 3dimensional space. 1 location will be above the plan generated by the 3 points of the probes while another location will be the "mirror" spot below the plane.

The 4th probe eliminates 1 of these spots and there for is required for full 3d triangulation.


Oh, yea, thanks for reminding me. Embarassed


I'm sure the simple design flaw of using a convex0 scanning plate as opposed to a flat one would of been realised in this modern day era of technology.



Thus, i don't think you would be wrong. Wink

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2005.07.21 09:09:00 - [10]
 

To be honest I find the entire "triangulation" thing bollox.

Why can't we just have probes doing a simple omnidirectional, spherical scan and have the efficiency and accuracy depend on the probe's range?

I'd rather have a simple, convenient system that actually works and gets the job done than some triangu-hey-I-made-another-safe-so-suck-on-your-probes-l8rz system that doesn't even work properly.

I shouldn't have to put up 3+ probes, waste loads of money, equipment and time when it takes my target about 20 seconds to make another safespot prior to giving me the finger.




Kaalise
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.07.21 12:35:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Kaalise on 21/07/2005 12:36:17
With a decent Quadrilation scanning system you could setup each type of probe to pin the object to within the next probes sphere of influence. So a set of 192au scanners would pin an object to within a 48au radius sphere, which would in turn pin to within 12au radius etc.

Edited for some horendous typo's

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2005.07.21 13:18:00 - [12]
 

Still too complicated and too inconvenient.

Again, why should it take me 4+ probes and the setup time attached to them when it takes just a few seconds to make a safespot?


Harisdrop
Gallente
Vindicate and Deliverance
Posted - 2005.07.21 13:33:00 - [13]
 

Why not have drones look for ships. Have a scanner drone, 3au,6,au,12au,10000au. I launch it. It reports back to me every scan. and it stay there doing it as long as i am in space.

It has to travel to the location to report but it can be shot and blown up. And is not fast to warp the next place. You select what it looks for. You have to tell its to stop soo you can warp to it.

Drone Scouting skill

Every level allows you control 1 scanner drone. Skill rank 8 need scout drones V and Drone Interfacing V.


The signal to warp to would be like a gang member for the owner.

The drones should be huge like 100m. They should be tech 1

The scanner probes should be a permanent thing once you set them they stay forever. They can only be placed in sovereignty space and only placed for Alliance. Only the person with POS starbase tactical officer can use them.

Dionysus Davinci
The Scope
Posted - 2005.07.21 13:36:00 - [14]
 

I've never had a problem finding a ship. Just the ones the are parked on the sun that you can't warp to suck.

Thanit
Posted - 2005.07.21 16:11:00 - [15]
 

Just had a ship scanned down (manually) to within 1 au.
Triangulated, scanned, twice, nothing.

Marvel Master
Asgard Schiffswerften
Ev0ke
Posted - 2005.07.21 17:15:00 - [16]
 

Yes, this feature doesnt work very good. Only sometimes.

Marvel

Vernichtungsengel
Shadow Company
Axiom Empire
Posted - 2005.07.21 17:20:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Vernichtungsengel on 21/07/2005 17:23:16
Edited by: Vernichtungsengel on 21/07/2005 17:22:39
Edited by: Vernichtungsengel on 21/07/2005 17:22:06
Edited by: Vernichtungsengel on 21/07/2005 17:21:19
Originally by: Redeol
the way i see it e.g. using 12 AU probes: you can either make a triangle and besure that the 12 AU probes are within 12 AU of each other, or you launch 3 probes at the same spot if you know the one you are looking for is within 12 AU.

right ? or no...




wrong,

x AU probes scan is the diameter of the scanning range,

o 3AU probe;
-- area scanned;

ie)
3AU probe
_________<-------------o--------------> _____________
_________|----------- 3 AU -----------|______________

if you drop all ur probes in the same spot, you can only scan 1/2 that distance from you, so if the directional scanner says the ship is 4 AU away
eg)

______________|---1.5AU-----|
_____<-------------o-------------->______________[SHIP]
______________|-----------4AU --------------------|
the scanner will not be able to find it as it is greater than 1/2 the distance of the probe scan range



EDIT: to try and get 'ascii' piccys sorted :)


 

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