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Sirilonwe
Caldari
Posted - 2005.07.20 07:48:00 - [1]
 

I've a general question about coverts ops. I know that they can warp cloaked, but can they jump cloaked? Or do you need to disable the cloak before jumping, and reenable it after jumping?

Gunstar Zero
Caldari
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2005.07.20 07:53:00 - [2]
 

yeah, have to uncloak to jump.

Also have to uncloak from 'gate jump cloak' / recloak on the other side

DEVILSENIGMA
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2005.07.20 07:57:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Sirilonwe
I've a general question about coverts ops. I know that they can warp cloaked, but can they jump cloaked? Or do you need to disable the cloak before jumping, and reenable it after jumping?


You have to uncloak to jump and dock. If you are 2000m of a gate or station u will automatically uncloak.

Sirilonwe
Caldari
Posted - 2005.07.20 08:36:00 - [4]
 

And how does the AP works with the cloak?

I was thinking about using a covert ops as a blockade runner, but if i must run the cloak manually, there's a chance that i get locked (insta lock) before i can cloak again...

Does someone use a covert ops effectively against blockades?

Thanit
Posted - 2005.07.20 08:40:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Thanit on 20/07/2005 08:42:09
Originally by: Sirilonwe
And how does the AP works with the cloak?

I was thinking about using a covert ops as a blockade runner, but if i must run the cloak manually, there's a chance that i get locked (insta lock) before i can cloak again...

Does someone use a covert ops effectively against blockades?


You can always cloak before getting locked after jumping, and always jump before getting locked when you get within 2500m of the gate in one piece.

I've never had any trouble, even with warp bubbles in place, inties looking around for me, or with scorp-boosted snipers at 120km from the gate.

Covert ops get into warp fast too.

However, autopilot is definately out of the question.

Herko Kerghans
Taleweaver
Posted - 2005.07.20 09:21:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Thanit
However, autopilot is definately out of the question.


What she said.

Yet, you can:

-Arrive at a gate with AP on, and cloaked
-Approach to the gate until 2500 m without AP (you dont get uncloaked), uncloak and jump (nobody's gonna catch you here, there is no time)
-Or you can approach with AP and uncloak at 3000m and AP will do the jump for you (also safe)
-At the other side of the gate, with the AP still on, cloak as soon as you hear the "uncloaking" noise. Nobody is that fast on the lock.

Notice that the above is done with the AP "on" all the time, yet you gotta be there to de-cloak before the jump and cloak at the "other side" of the gate.

Nobody ever is gonna catch you "on arrival", since they dont see you warping in and are off-guard. They may see you jumping, and if there is somebody on the other side he will hear the jumping noise for sure. But done fast, nobody can get a lock on you before you cloak.

(btw: when you de-cloak, you have to wait 30 secs to cloak again. Yet if you make a gatejump, you can cloak immediately, no need to wait 30 secs)


W0lverine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.07.20 09:36:00 - [7]
 

I'v locked and killed lots of cov ops ships on "other side of gates", lock them be4 they can claok and use my 20km scrambler on taranis:D, ppl transport some nice stuff in themugh

Sirilonwe
Caldari
Posted - 2005.07.20 09:41:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Sirilonwe on 20/07/2005 09:43:44
How could you lock "before they can cloak"? IMHO you have pretty gold reflexes to catch the instant when the covert is recloaking, and click it on overview... That's roughly 0.2 seconds... (not counting the locking time, but if think you got an insta lock setup?)

edit: oops I forgot that autotargeters exists... but even with such tools, you should lock real fast...

W0lverine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.07.20 09:44:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Sirilonwe
How could you lock "before they can cloak"? IMHO you have pretty gold reflexes to catch the instant when the covert is recloaking, and click it on overview... That's roughly 0.2 seconds... (not counting the locking time, but if think you got an insta lock setup?)


no, not instalock
but its pretty easy, you dont cloak imidiatly, and normaly its enough(use ctrl+click to lock), but then again, sometimes they cloak in time, but most of the cases I can get them, specialy when I'm in gang with some1 with good leadershipskills

Thanit
Posted - 2005.07.20 10:00:00 - [10]
 

Then the covops pilot was sloppy.

Ive tried it, and if you are fast enough you show up on the overview no longer then a blink of the eye. No chance of getting lock in 0.1 seconds, sensor boosters or not, there is always a 0.5 second delay on lock.

And ofc, covops can still fit wcs of they really want to, that would leave you zero chance at all.


In my experience, the biggest risk (it's what I do when I know there's a covops coming our way), is when you warp to a gate not using instas (a covops pilot will often not use his insta when he notices a full local). People can put ships at the 15,20,30 warpin and decloak you on arrival, leaving you no time to get out again.

ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God
Posted - 2005.07.20 10:10:00 - [11]
 

Yeah, I feel hot air blowing.

Takes a fraction of a second for me to cloak after jumping. Double-click-in-space-F1. Thats all it takes. As soon as that ship is going 1m/s you can cloak.

Total time you're on overview is about a quarter of a second or so, hardly long enough for someone to read your name, much less click on you AND achieve a successful lock. Taking into account the small signature radius of the ship and the time it takes to actually move your mouse and ctrl-click, I think it would take a pretty sloppy COps pilot to manage getting locked during the process.

In any case, why even do that anymore? Since we can cloak while in warp whats the big deal? The only reason I would cloak first is if someone was camping that gate and I didn't want them to have an idea of where I was going.

Heikki
Gallente
Erasers inc.
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2005.07.20 10:24:00 - [12]
 

In my experiences, Covert Op ship is extremely reliable for transporting small stuff, or exploring systems, even when you need to operate in heavily camped areas. Yet to lose one when I've been paying attention (although lost a few due being AFW for a few moments).

So random tips for safe (== slow) travelling:

General:
- Fit nanofibers: +agility, and speed as bonus
- Set your default 'warp to' distance to something unpredictable between 20-100km
- After jump to camped gate, pick some stellar object, hit warp-to, and the moment your ship starts turning/accelerating, activate cloak
- If local is empty, wait a few secs uncloaked before jumping to next system: in theory you could jump, start warping and still be unable to cloak due re-cloak timer
- Have scouting BMs if possible: more than 150kms away from the target, from as random direction as feasible. If the gate looks clear, you can warp to 15km / insta warp.

If the current system has (hostile) people in local:
- Don't use insta jumps BMs
- Warp first to some suitable planet/stellar object (using F11 map), and after that towards target gate at an unpredictable distance: might avoid some warp bubbles

There are still some small risk factors:
- After jump in, you end up inside a well patrolled bubble, or within smartbomb range of a hostile
- Warping towards target, you pass right through nearby stellar object (like moon): this may uncloak you occasionally (known bug)

The former is quite unlikely; the latter is avoidable by care and F11 map + scanner.


-Lasse



W0lverine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.07.20 10:35:00 - [13]
 

trust me its not hard to lock/scramble cov op be4 he warp/cloak, its even possible to scrambe inty with another inty be4 it wars, but it depends on how much you need to turn direction of your next destenation

Deja Thoris
Invicta.
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2005.07.20 11:18:00 - [14]
 

I hear what you are saying Wolverine but I cant see anyone getting a lock on anything but a sloppy pilot.

I dont care if you have a fleet of scorps remote sensor boostering you.

On top of this if its a transport cov ops it can just fit 3wcs. It has the CPU with the ship skill at 4. Pretty much untouchable.

If you caught them its because they are bad, not because you are uber.

Sorryugh

Shirei
Minmatar
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2005.07.20 11:40:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Deja Thoris
I hear what you are saying Wolverine but I cant see anyone getting a lock on anything but a sloppy pilot.

Well, there are a few cases where the covert ops can be caught:
- Lag after jumping through the gate (sometimes the client reacts with a bit of a delay to the double click-move command, making you miss the right timing for re-cloaking so that a sensor booster stiletto might be able to lock you). That is usually no problem if you deactivate effeects though.
- You end up in a warp bubble after jumping and there is a good ceptor pilot on the other side who is close and fast enough to decloak you again

Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2005.07.20 17:03:00 - [16]
 

The REAL cov ops killer is laziness. Use autopilot and you'll get fried because of what someone mentioned - campers leaving a "point man" at the 15km warp in point. In my experience, the 20 and 30km are MUCH safer (though not 100%) and anything over that is not a problem.

BEST solution...turn the AP OFF...when you arrive, don't warp to the gate...warp to a planet, belt, whatever...THEN warp to the gate...puts you at warp in point the pirates are not so likely to expect. 15km is still risky though, if there are lots of them and they are just milling about. I have seen pairs of Inty's set to orbit the gate at 15km with the MWD on...that has a fair chance of catching an unsuspecting Cov Ops pilot.


 

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