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Aleis
Minmatar
Playboy Enterprises
Dark Taboo
Posted - 2005.07.15 21:51:00 - [1]
 

Something that would Actually be fairly easy to impliment and help Starbase owners in the defences of their structures imensly.

Basicly you'll be able to boared your starbase control tower and directly control all guns and EW. the current GUI is almost perfect for this already allowing 24 different active modules to be controled and it wouldn't be hard to add more i wouldn't think.

Alredy people are trying to do this with on the fly configeration changes and standings, and besides it makes sence that you would be able to control the guns directly,

P.S. To satisfy CCP you could also break out a whole nother skill set, Starbase Defence Operations

Bhaal
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2005.07.15 22:22:00 - [2]
 

Wow, that's a cool idea!

Board the CT with your pod, you can target & fire just like in a ship, sounds cool!

jonies
Broadside.
Posted - 2005.07.18 07:07:00 - [3]
 

Ya , I posted about that a few weeks ago and didnt get much of a response. The implemtation of it shouldn't be to hard. I think this is going to be needed as defending a pos is going to be more of a challange if a few dreads and 60-100 bs try to take a large pos. Another possiblity is to allow owners have more control on how long it stays on a single target or if all guns focus on one target for a set amount of time. As far as I know the pos targeting is much like gate sentries. They target the first target that agresses and then if more agress they become out of sinc.

Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2005.07.18 07:50:00 - [4]
 

i dont think u need that, just have one or two good defended poses up ;)

mamolian
Cruoris Seraphim
Posted - 2005.07.18 08:05:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: mamolian on 18/07/2005 08:42:02
Rexthor i love your sig :)

Think i still have the 3 1/2 floppy disks for that game for the atari ste.
Not to take the post off topic, seems like an interesting idea to me, but shouldnt they streamline the current interface, and iron out any bugs that i often hear you folks discussing, or of course implement both in the next content patch :)

jonies
Broadside.
Posted - 2005.07.18 20:05:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
i dont think u need that, just have one or two good defended poses up ;)



Dont you have any productive response to the thread other then saying " I dont think you need that" .

The point of the thread was if the Devs will take a look at it. If a 60 man bs fleet and a dread or two jump into a system a pos might go down just due to the fact that its defensive fire control is too much like gate sentries. You will be complaining when most pos's go down and prices for T2 comps go through the roof in price.

A POS takes alot of effort to make work and to become profitable. It should take a large force to take it out. But then it should have the abilty to defend it self properly.

Aitrus
Amarr
Posted - 2005.07.19 03:34:00 - [7]
 

I think part of the balance on POS defenses is that they DON'T focus fire. Giving someone complete control of the POS modules like that would be immensely unbalancing.

The mods would have to be scaled down in effectiveness to compensate.

Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2005.07.19 10:51:00 - [8]
 

well,
a large pos with 8 Large guns, which have the chance to get one Bs with one shot into Structure, so it cant get back after it warped out is untakeable without dreads, and even then its very hard.

also a pos has 45m shildpoints so u have to hammer it hard and long - the pos is the best defense u could think off.

when u can take a L well defended pos off, u can also take some guns at a starbase without a prob i guess.

Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2005.07.19 10:53:00 - [9]
 

but i just get the idea that having guns would be useful so that enemies cant camp ur starbase..

Aleis
Minmatar
Playboy Enterprises
Dark Taboo
Posted - 2005.07.20 01:32:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Aleis on 20/07/2005 01:39:10
The main reson i would like to see something like this, is that no matter what you do as far as AI for the defences. The starbase will always be at a disadvantage because it A) can't move, and B) can't change tactics.

Human players are dynamic thinkers and very good at coming up with stratagys to defeat things, or at the least learn from expierence and adapt. Thus once they find out what works against something you lose.

This is the very reason that NPC "cheat" because no matter what any coder does within reasonable CPU load the play wil always be smarter. So unless you can add in that "Human" element to the defences of starbses there will come a time, once people start practicing when starbases will be 4tehlose.

And now that there are Starbase Killers in the game that time is fast aproaching.

theRaptor
Caldari
Tactical Operations
Posted - 2005.07.20 02:24:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Aleis
Human players are dynamic thinkers and very good at coming up with stratagys to defeat things, or at the least learn from expierence and adapt. Thus once they find out what works against something you lose.


That only works in a complex environment. POS are very simple and your options are extremely limited. A POS vs a single BS is the same as an Apoc (all faction gear) vs a noob ship. The frig is motionless, 60km's away, doesn't have ECM, but has a 60km range noob gun. And the frig can't do anything about this.

End result? Apoc wins. 10 noob ships? Apoc wins. 100 noob frigs? Apoc wins.

All the Apoc and noob ship can do is sit there and shoot each other. The Apoc can't be ecemed which would allow 100 of them to win. Its a simple race of damage and tanking, and the Apoc always wins.

A dreadnaught in this analogy is a HAC. It has just enough firepower to break the Apoc's tank, but will take all day to actually kill it. And the HAC will die if 10 noob ships attack it.

There is no room for tactics. No tricks. No easy solution. It is a simple drawn out numbers game. The end result being that a POS can kill any reasonable number of battleships, and one dread can kill a POS given time. But to do that the dread becomes completely immobile and vulnerable to a small counter attack force.

The real work in POS vs Dreads, is the support fleet fights for each of the sides. The result of the main fight is known. It is the side event that determines the winner.

Thanit
Posted - 2005.07.20 09:03:00 - [12]
 

Dreads or no dreads, defense or no defense, pos are still indestructible for all practical purposes unless the owner finds it not worth the fuel cost when in reinforced mode.

Other then that, refuelling solves any problem you might have with people shooting your pos.

yaroz
Posted - 2005.07.20 11:44:00 - [13]
 

Just as a side note, are large railgun batterys supposed to only take 800 rounds of XL ammunition and not the 10000 as stated in the info for this weapon?

Ammunition hangar is only 400m3.Confused

Aleis
Minmatar
Playboy Enterprises
Dark Taboo
Posted - 2005.07.21 02:21:00 - [14]
 

The Industructable feeling of starbases i find very interesting. Yes they are tough, Big numbers are intimidating, but they really aren't all that big when you start looking at it. I've ahd a starbase taken down already myself, yes admitedly it was a small but then again the attackers only had about 5 battleships and we're done in about 2-3 hours.

And your arguement about how people being smart only works in complex situations? Well no if the situation is simle then it's simply easier to find the best answer. Tactics, Ship loadout, and group structure are by far complicated scenarios. Or else we wouldn't have all these nerf's or reconfiguring of equipment. yes if two people decide to see who can bang their head agains thte wall longer it's very easy to see who will win, but then one human starts to get smart and decide he'll just hit his head a little harder and thus, a WINNER! is found.

your analagy of the battle ship beating the frigate "as long as it doesn't have ecm" is exactly perfect. The target that has it's configuration known loses. Try it in any Pvp situation, tell your buddy what your flying and let him compensate with nearly any comparable ship.


 

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