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HippoKing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2005.07.14 22:21:00 - [1]
 

i doubt that i am am the only person to have suggested this, or that this is the only thread suggesting this, but here goes neway

please can we have a tier 2 skill of learning itself, in the mould of the other tier 2 learning skills (clarity, eidetic memory etc) offering a further 2% per lvl

Disfigured Thief
Gallente
Timetravel Enterprises
Dark Taboo
Posted - 2005.07.14 22:41:00 - [2]
 

no

HippoKing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2005.07.14 22:41:00 - [3]
 

a particular reason for that direct and to the point statement?

Disfigured Thief
Gallente
Timetravel Enterprises
Dark Taboo
Posted - 2005.07.14 22:45:00 - [4]
 

why?

Idara
Caldari
Queens of the Stone Age
Posted - 2005.07.14 23:32:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Disfigured Thief
why?


Ignore the asshat please.

I think the reason that there is no Adv. Learning skill itself is that it would've allowed the more "veteran" players to learn thier skills faster and pull away from the hordes of "newbs" that would whine about not being able to train skills 8-10% faster on top of the original Learning skill.

Disfigured Thief
Gallente
Timetravel Enterprises
Dark Taboo
Posted - 2005.07.14 23:39:00 - [6]
 

yep

Reoc Targ
Posted - 2005.07.16 11:56:00 - [7]
 

What would stop the noobs from training it themselves? (being a noob here myself)

Coldberg
Posted - 2005.07.16 14:02:00 - [8]
 

Nothing would be stopping you training it. However you wouldn't be able to train it as fast as people who already have their other learninig skills at a high level. So they would be pulling away further.

Although that probably doesn't bother you (or me for that matter) there will always be people that complain.

DEVILSENIGMA
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2005.07.18 09:47:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Reoc Targ
What would stop the noobs from training it themselves? (being a noob here myself)


You would be sacrificing a lot of time training learning to 5 and then the adv. learning skill. Time which would be better spent on a combat/carbear skills.

Kalin Devinae
Posted - 2005.07.22 16:51:00 - [10]
 

Well technically it isn't really true that it helps the old players more than new ones. Certainly if you look at a brand new player and someone with lvl 5 learning already learnt, and decked out with +3 implants, the time that it takes for the old player to max out 5 level of "Advance Learning" would be less, but keep in mind that if the new player max out his "Advance Learning" skill immediately, then by the time he 'matures' (spend time training) as much as the old player, he should have gotten more skill points because he gained higher stats sooner. Given, of course, that the new player starts out with the same stats and got his hands on the implants as fast as the old one did. So while it seems like the old players would be able to pull away faster, what it really does is allow a new player to catch up by the difference (in life span) of when they trained the skill (by however many % bonus the new skill offers).

Adding this skill would go a long way to helping new players (IE: a month old, enough to know you like EVE) to get the skills they need faster to actually play the game. The way it is right now, it's like paying for a year to train skills just to start playing the game (in the sense of being able to compete with others)... it has to be a huge deterent for new players to join EVE. And really that's the only ones that are really affected by it, because any decent players would have their "Learning" skill to lvl 4 if not 5 already. So the difference between a six month old player versus a 3 year old player doesn't really factor into it. In fact, it will help cut that 2.5 year difference down to 2.25 year (assuming that the new skill will give a 10% bonus) because the younger player will gain 10% more SP for the next 2.5 years than the old player DID, thus gaining .25 years to his lifespan (skill wise).

Frankly I'm all for faster training times given the fact that CCP is just churning out new skills for people to train, especially with the sudden huge increase in skill ranks. I mean, the highest rank before was Rank 8 (BS), now it's Rank 12 (DN)... Just imagine the Titan's skill rank... prolly 15 or more. One thing is for sure, you'll NEVER run out of skills to train. When you take these god forbid insane skill times in, everyone can use some help in learning, new or old. Adding this new skill doesn't hurt nearly as much as it helps. This way, it just means that old players can do multiple things, and do them all well. While new players would have to focus all their efforts on a particular field. In this sense, the new players need all the help they can get, and if the only way to do that is to add new learning skills, then so be it.

Although, to be honest, the idea of learning skills in general is a bad thing, because it forces a kind of mandatory buffer that a new player needs to get over first before being able to play around. If it were possible I'd just cut down training times accross the board and just throw out learning skills all together, but it's way too late for that now that people have them learnt (they'd cry that you wasted their time). Maybe just boost the effectiveness of the existing learning skills? Or maybe make the new advance learning skill add 5% to their stats instead of 2% per level... *shrugs* I'm just tossing out ideas. Again, the only 'advantage' that this would give is to cut down the time 'difference' between when two people learn the respective skills, helping the player who learns it sooner in their life span and hurting those who never bothered. But an older player will always be better... even if he starts learning it 3 years into his lifespan versus on the first day because the skill would only reduce the difference by a percentage, not to mention that the way learning skills currently work (by adding % to your stats), it has a built in diminishing return the higher your stats get (abeited a rather small one).

TotensBurntCorpse
Minmatar
Miners of Moria Corp
Posted - 2005.07.22 19:04:00 - [11]
 

a tier 2 learning skill prob wont really help anyone much as it takes over 20 days in some to get them to level V of the advanced sets now, and given this would now be a tier 3 skill i would expect heavy rank.

in short learning that advanced a learning skill would prob take more time to learn than give back as benefit, we are talking months here

Delacho
Posted - 2005.07.22 21:23:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Delacho on 22/07/2005 21:22:57
Originally by: TotensBurntCorpse
a tier 2 learning skill prob wont really help anyone much as it takes over 20 days in some to get them to level V of the advanced sets now, and given this would now be a tier 3 skill i would expect heavy rank.

in short learning that advanced a learning skill would prob take more time to learn than give back as benefit, we are talking months here


nobody is forcing you to train it if it ever gets added.
also nobody is forcing anyone to actualy train it to lvl5, just lvl4 would be nice

StokolaN
THE GRAND COMMONWEALTH
Equinox Alliance
Posted - 2005.07.23 03:46:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: DEVILSENIGMA
Originally by: Reoc Targ
What would stop the noobs from training it themselves? (being a noob here myself)


You would be sacrificing a lot of time training learning to 5 and then the adv. learning skill. Time which would be better spent on a combat/carbear skills.


A pretty ridiculous argument for not putting an advanced version of the learning skill in. There are already advanced learning skills that require you to have lvl 5 in the previous skill to train them.

HippoKing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2005.07.24 18:57:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: TotensBurntCorpse
a tier 2 learning skill prob wont really help anyone much as it takes over 20 days in some to get them to level V of the advanced sets now, and given this would now be a tier 3 skill i would expect heavy rank.

in short learning that advanced a learning skill would prob take more time to learn than give back as benefit, we are talking months here


i already have learning to 5, so i could train this new adv learning skill to 4 in a few days - explain that won't help me?

and it would jsut be a tier 2 skill, not a tier 3 skill, so the rank will likely be the same as the other SOCT skills

Corey Grim
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2005.07.25 04:48:00 - [15]
 

i think they dont add learning tier 2.
simple reason is that learning raises your attributes 2% so i do a little math here
if somebody trained that learning tier2 to lvl5 he gets 20% more to his attributes.
so this player with some skill of 20 gets actually gets 24 and with +3 implant gets it 27... do a little math how long it would take after that to noobie to just jump to BS?? simple as this: all skills will grow too high speed = CCP needs to add more skills faster rate.

Ralitge boyter
Minmatar
Posted - 2005.07.25 11:18:00 - [16]
 

The current skills would take nearly 4 years at current to max out (or there about at least) the oldest players are "only" playing a little over 2 years so with an extra learning skill making them train faster (~20% faster) they would still need ~1.5 years - 20% = ~1.2 years and that is assuming they really would want to train it all to 5 (who doesn't)

So CCP has more than enough time to add more skills and plenty, the whole problem seems to be that there is so much on the dev's which list to add and to rework (market, politics, the way the factions are structured and so on) that they seem a little ressed for time with all of it, on top of that the adding of new features and elements creates some intresting "chalanges" for them as the last few reboots have shown.

In other words I am sure that somewhere in the CCP office there is a post-it on someonce desk that says "Implement advanced learning skill" but it is somewhat obscured by outage reports and plans to rework the way the universe works. Sad

Sokra
D00M.
Posted - 2005.07.25 11:39:00 - [17]
 

4 years is nowhere near close to learn all skills, i have 32mill sp´s now in more than 2 years of training, and with the last patch the total amount of sp´s is around 350-400 mill, so it might be a little longer then Rolling Eyes

Sir JoJo
Minmatar
x13
Posted - 2005.07.25 16:39:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Corey Grim
i think they dont add learning tier 2.
simple reason is that learning raises your attributes 2% so i do a little math here
if somebody trained that learning tier2 to lvl5 he gets 20% more to his attributes.
so this player with some skill of 20 gets actually gets 24 and with +3 implant gets it 27... do a little math how long it would take after that to noobie to just jump to BS?? simple as this: all skills will grow too high speed = CCP needs to add more skills faster rate.


it would take the little noob a while cause maxing all learning skills take a while now and if they ad more they take even longer.. the new if they added them would prolly be rank 5 or maybe 8 then there is some serius training time ahead... and being i a bs dont mean u can fly it proberly, u need alot more then the Bs skill .

Elemor
Posted - 2005.07.26 11:13:00 - [19]
 

I dont really know why people complain about the creation of this skill.

If the skill can help us to train faster then it helps everyone in the game.

So u don have to max an skill to take some benefit from it since learning it to lv 4 will help a lot too.

I support the implementation of this skill.

Cya.

Corey Grim
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2005.07.26 11:29:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Sir JoJo

it would take the little noob a while cause maxing all learning skills take a while now and if they ad more they take even longer.. the new if they added them would prolly be rank 5 or maybe 8 then there is some serius training time ahead...


Agreed.

Originally by: Sir JoJo
and being i a bs dont mean u can fly it proberly, u need alot more then the Bs skill .


yes and thats why i think the BS and others ships like that shouldnt be available faster. just because it prolly goes pop the first day. those learning skills take too much time to train tho. i think CCP maked a little miscalculation when they added them becouse they´re requirements are lvl5 basic learning´s if it was lvl4 it would be more understandable but nothing to do it for now coz if they changed it now it would be wrong to those who had trained them to lvl5. i think learning skills are good way to kill motivation BUT the time u train them u learn basic mechanism of the game and learn to understand how everything works. learnings is pain to me coz i play 6-12h a day (Twisted Evilyes im crazyTwisted Evil)
but Noob who spends lot less time playing EVE, that shouldnt be that big problem as it is to me.

Frost Killer
Posted - 2005.07.26 16:02:00 - [21]
 

Total skill points possible is right around 257million. The last patch added some 80mil SP to the game.

Truely CCP is in no dire need to add more skills. Heck even before they didn't need to add more. Basically with that patch to max everything out they added another 2 years for learning times. Lets say you can learn 15mil SP per year thats 17 years to get that much. And the first 40mil SP character is just a few weeks away? Yup for some reason I don't think we need to worry much about running out of skills to train they way CCP is adding content ;)

Corey Grim
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2005.07.27 20:32:00 - [22]
 

Ok ok i miscalculated that "all skills will grow too high speed = CCP needs to add more skills faster rate." its Bul***it. But think about how much time u need to get all learning skills to lvl5 and all adv learnings to lvl4 oh its killing me coz u have to do this right when u start....

Karazaan
Rakyra
Posted - 2005.07.29 22:29:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Kalin Devinae

I mean, the highest rank before was Rank 8 (BS), now it's Rank 12 (DN)... Just imagine the Titan's skill rank... prolly 15 or more. One thing is for sure, you'll NEVER run out of skills to train.


Just to put the right values on the table
Rank 14 skill: Capital Ship Construction
Rank 16 skill: Outpost Construction

Not that new players would try to build an outpost anytime soon...
Quote:

This way, it just means that old players can do multiple things, and do them all well. While new players would have to focus all their efforts on a particular field.


Well, technically, with the new EW skills, missiles (hopefully it won't turn off-topic in here), drones (more skills later), gangs, hacking and archeology. Everyone has to focus somewhere, including old players...
Quote:

Although, to be honest, the idea of learning skills in general is a bad thing, because it forces a kind of mandatory buffer that a new player needs to get over first before being able to play around.

There are players that will not train them even after you demonstrate the bonus, I think it's simply a matter of beeing serious or not. If you just want to play to have fun, you will not train them... Sure it's bad but, who care?


 

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