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Beatlebug
Posted - 2005.07.14 19:19:00 - [31]
 

Don't POS turrets have locking cycles, and couldn't about 5-6 frigates with MWD take all the shots while the dread kills the shields? After all has anyone considered the tracking speed of .002707 rad/sec for a large turret. yes it can shoot at 300+k but can it hit... with a bunch of frigates taking the shots at max range, the dread will be mostly free to pound the POS. Question

Just some thoughts.

BB

Zandramus
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2005.07.14 20:06:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Beatlebug
Don't POS turrets have locking cycles, and couldn't about 5-6 frigates with MWD take all the shots while the dread kills the shields? After all has anyone considered the tracking speed of .002707 rad/sec for a large turret. yes it can shoot at 300+k but can it hit... with a bunch of frigates taking the shots at max range, the dread will be mostly free to pound the POS. Question

Just some thoughts.

BB


If manually controlled the POS never has to fire a shot at anything other than the dread...

Away form the pos 18h out of the day... keep a couple of days worth of clathrates in the tower at all times make them come back 2 days from now and start over.

Even with Dreads you will still have to seige a large POS, and a large well set up pos with people to help defend it will mean that the attacking fleet is going to take some heavy losses.


Rasitiln
Minmatar
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2005.07.14 22:12:00 - [33]
 

really a POS has nothing to fear from a dread, so long as it has fuel and cathrades, the only way to take down a pos for sure, is to im pose a blockade on the system with the POS and have a support fleet for the dread, you put it in to reenforced mode wait the few days, soon it runs out of fuel and the dread + support fleet makes short work of your POS. Thats the best way to take out a POS IMHO but it takes tons of man power and everything else, I say use the dread to make sure you take out the POS before DT :-)

WHeisenberg
Caldari
Caldari Deep Space Ventures
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2005.07.15 01:07:00 - [34]
 

Interesting news about the tracking array changes.

Though in all honesty, even with the insane amounts of range increases, they still made sense.

Medium lasters with gamma crystals would take care of snipers and deal some serious damage to boot.

And, since it did make sense that those numbers might have a meaning (maybe CCP giving the POS owners a bit of a math quiz to figure out 'why' the numbers were so high to begin with) many POS owners devoted a lot of resources, in both isk and time, into setting up stations with those beauties.

We figured, there will be plenty of POS's without them.. and those with them might stand a better chance of being 'passed by' when considering which POS to blow up next comes along.

Now that's been hosed. Thank's alot CCP. We truly appreciate all you HAVENT done for us in the POS world :)

gfldex
Posted - 2005.07.15 11:14:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Ride Nunc

= 44000 HP damage every 7.5 seconds - anywhere on the grid



A large tower has a max lock range of 350km. That's 100km less the the grid. Dread guns have a optirange of 80km without skills, mods and tracking links. Add 2 Scorps with tracking links to each dread and your POS is *beep*ed.

Zaintiraris
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2005.07.15 17:33:00 - [36]
 

Maybe assign some guy in a logistics ship to each dread? With the amount of stuff they could have working on the dread, even if the dread is within the firing range of the station, the logistics ship could easily stand further back while boosting, repairing, or otherwise helping out the dread.

Aleis
Minmatar
Playboy Enterprises
Dark Taboo
Posted - 2005.07.15 21:26:00 - [37]
 

Yeah as it stands Dread == Teh Win button against stations, as they can esialy stay outside teh range of a starbase with minimal help once you add skills, mods, and ammo types.

And for people saying a lone dread won't do it. Did you even read the patch notes about how jump drives work? Your nullRequiredto have help.

Well just my thoughts anyway

Zaintiraris
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2005.07.16 04:42:00 - [38]
 

Alright alright. I was thinking about strategy, and I came up with what I think is probably the most feasable way to get a dread into position vs. a really, -really- strong station.

Or at least, this is what I would do.

Take a raven with all med-slots filled with invul hardeners, and all lo-slots filled with CPRs. Warp it to the offending moonbase. Then follow it into warp about 4 seconds later with 4-8 logistics ships to boost it while it absorbs damage (yes. If there is someone to command the station to aim, I get it, this will fail.).

Once the logistics folks take off, wait an additional 4 seconds then warp in your dread, go into siege mode, and pwn the thing while removing the raven. Or apoc. Or whatever you choose to use.

Zyrla Bladestorm
Minmatar
Foundation
R0ADKILL
Posted - 2005.07.16 05:50:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: gfldex
Originally by: Ride Nunc

= 44000 HP damage every 7.5 seconds - anywhere on the grid



A large tower has a max lock range of 350km. That's 100km less the the grid. Dread guns have a optirange of 80km without skills, mods and tracking links. Add 2 Scorps with tracking links to each dread and your POS is *beep*ed.



Siege mode disables all remote assistance - so no remote sensor boosters or remote tracking links for dreads.

Saerid
FinFleet
IT Alliance
Posted - 2005.07.16 09:24:00 - [40]
 

I'd say much less of an issue than it's made out to be for the regular large POS. One thing that immediately comes to mind is that repairing power does not matter if one volley's damage exceeds the armor capacity. Lob in some large artilleries and chances are the once every 30 seconds volley blows straight through into hull (you could always try to fix it with medium hull reps between volleys. heh heh).

Unless the pos is 1) targeting on automatic 2) and there's serious amount of targets on offer, it's going to keel over relatively fast by itself. No need for things like disruptor batteries either, the dreadnaught can accomplish that all by itself when it goes into siege mode.

Jorev
The Scope
Posted - 2005.07.17 07:42:00 - [41]
 

I see a lot of wishful thinking, especially from POS owners whose only experience with defending their POS is thru an occasional kill-email when an unwary passerby warped to your moon.

Those who have some experience in POS assaults know what dreads will do to POS'es and it won't be pretty.

BTW, if you think clathrates will save you, let me assure you they won't. You will run out.

Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2005.07.18 08:02:00 - [42]
 

i wonder if u have like 5-10 dreads (if), will the guns always cycle, or can u tell the guns not to cycle?

if they always cycle i guess the dreads can do it, if not they have to stay outside of the lockrange

Laocoon
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2005.07.18 17:49:00 - [43]
 

Look, 1 dread, on it's own, will die against any 1/2 decent POS. No matter what. If the pilot is stupid enough to try and do it on his own, then he deserves it. These monsters were deserved to be the focal point, the *motherships* of fleets. Even their *name* tells you it. (until/if the titans come). And read *FLEETS*. If an alliance really wants to take any worthy POS, they should take 2 dreads, and a serious fleet of BSs, cruisers, frigs, AFs and everthing else under the suns (including haulers; a fleet needs ammo). Then they would win. Easily.

Dreads are built for sheer firepower, but are not gods of war or anything. With planning, they will fufill their role perfectly. I dont pretend to know how to do it, but im 100% sure they can if the pilots think about it.

aeti
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.07.18 20:47:00 - [44]
 

with a little clever thinking you can easily kill any pos with battleships atm


dreads will just get the job done faster, that is all

Gallentna
Posted - 2005.07.19 08:30:00 - [45]
 

I was reading about the price of a dread to a pos. Ya sure a pos cost alot less, but dose a pos move? can a pos go from one end of the region to the other to fight a fleet? no, a pos cannot fight a invading fleet, only if the fleet wants to fight it. say a 20 bs fleet jumps in and you ahve a dread sitting about 200km from the gate with support, to say boost its tracking and locking....20 bs = about2 billion ya? and i heard that some dreads can kill a bs in 1 2 volys. so i do belice that the dread should cost alot more, bucase you can do soooo much more damn isk wiz then a pos. ugh

Sicori Malaki
Caldari
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2005.07.19 12:11:00 - [46]
 

I remember CCP saying that Dreads would be über "pre-nerfed" and that we should look forward to when they will "un-nerf" it, think it was in one of the devblogs.

so maybe atm they dont stand much of a chance solo against a decent POS, but we'll wait and see what CCP does :)

Nepereta
Confederation of Red Moon
Red Moon Federation
Posted - 2005.07.19 12:17:00 - [47]
 

Wait 2-3 months there will be many dreads floating around alliance space and some videos.

Matthew
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
Posted - 2005.07.19 13:31:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Sicori Malaki
I remember CCP saying that Dreads would be über "pre-nerfed" and that we should look forward to when they will "un-nerf" it, think it was in one of the devblogs.


The only devblog I remember with a statement like that was referring to the jump drive specifically, not the dread in general.

Thanit
Posted - 2005.07.20 09:06:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: SaorAlba
A dreadnaught in posistion will mean the end of your POS.


very wrong.

As long as you can bring along more strontium and other fuel, no pos is vulnerable untill the owner decides it's no longer valid to keep it around.

The only way to remove pos is to haunt it and force it into reinforced mode time after time untill the owner withdraws it.

PPhearr
Gallente
Coffee Productions Inc.
Posted - 2005.07.20 11:29:00 - [50]
 

Quote:

i wonder if u have like 5-10 dreads (if), will the guns always cycle, or can u tell the guns not to cycle?

if they always cycle i guess the dreads can do it, if not they have to stay outside of the lockrange



The gunz will cycle under normal conditions, however if you have the right roles within your corp you can get them to focus fire :)

Outrange a POS? Good luck with that, it is IMPOSSIBLE to target beyond 250km in EVE, this is a physically impossed upper limit on locking range (was introduced several patches ago to stop sensor boosted scorps jamming at 400km+). This is presumably why POS also have an activation range of 250km when their gunz can shoot further.

POS aren't indestructable, but you not gonna be outranging them with a dread or anything else. A properly setup, well defended Large POS (Medium and Small aren't gonna be a problem) is gonna be a challenge for even several dreads, but there are plenty of poorly setup, poorly defended POS out there...

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2005.07.20 11:33:00 - [51]
 

On Sisi, 6 Dreadnoughts in Siege mode with several dozen BS in support took ~30 mins to get a starbase into reinforced mode.

IIRC with two large Capital ship repairers operated in Siege mode, the Amarr one can tank roughly 6 Large Railgun batteries using XL antimatter ammo (that's around about 1600 dps/2000 dps with Gallente tower)

qtip
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.07.20 11:44:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: qtip on 20/07/2005 11:46:15
Originally by: Thanit
Originally by: SaorAlba
A dreadnaught in posistion will mean the end of your POS.


very wrong.

As long as you can bring along more strontium and other fuel, no pos is vulnerable untill the owner decides it's no longer valid to keep it around.

The only way to remove pos is to haunt it and force it into reinforced mode time after time untill the owner withdraws it.



According to the Exodus documentation, you cant refuel a POS in reinforced mode. You can only do that after it comes out of reinforced and it has reached >50% shield again. Those docs furthermore state that the timer on the reinforced mode gives a date for the final battle for the POS, each side can gather pilots meanwhile for the showdown.

Obviously this is bugged, since no patchnotes or anything else that i know of said there were any changes to this. IMHO refueling POSes that are in reinforced mode should be considered a bug-exploit, GMs dont seem to give a sh*t tho. If thats supposed to be a stealth-feature, that would really suck. A big alliance with a dread-army would have to lay siege to a system with a hostile small POS with a hangar-array full of strontium for days. Ridicolous tbh..

Harisdrop
Gallente
Vindicate and Deliverance
Posted - 2005.07.20 13:09:00 - [53]
 

Wow never knew that and yes you are correct that it might be a bug.

Com Cam
Caldari
Confederate Cowboys
Free Worlds Alliance
Posted - 2005.07.20 18:50:00 - [54]
 

** DISCLAIMER ** I do KNOW and UNDERSTAND MOST POS owners would NOT have such a set up.

I know this is not likely to be the case with most POS...but I do wonder how the POS would do if it had it's own Dread inside the shields? I mean, you have the POS under manual control, and a Dread of your own aiding in defence. Only the richest of POS owners would have such a set up (or Alliance owned POS, perhaps in "enemy systems"), but I do think it would be a HUGE suprise to the attacking fleet. They warp in, setup for the seige, and see a Dread undock from the hanger array and go into siege mode INSIDE the POS shield Shocked . Wonder how long it would take the attacking Dreads to crank up their jump drives at this point? Is this even possible? Is there any kind of proxcimity limitations to a Dread in siege mode?

"Always maintain a rigid state of flexibility"

Harisdrop
Gallente
Vindicate and Deliverance
Posted - 2005.07.20 19:31:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Com Cam
** DISCLAIMER ** I do KNOW and UNDERSTAND MOST POS owners would NOT have such a set up.

I know this is not likely to be the case with most POS...but I do wonder how the POS would do if it had it's own Dread inside the shields? I mean, you have the POS under manual control, and a Dread of your own aiding in defence. Only the richest of POS owners would have such a set up (or Alliance owned POS, perhaps in "enemy systems"), but I do think it would be a HUGE suprise to the attacking fleet. They warp in, setup for the seige, and see a Dread undock from the hanger array and go into siege mode INSIDE the POS shield Shocked . Wonder how long it would take the attacking Dreads to crank up their jump drives at this point? Is this even possible? Is there any kind of proxcimity limitations to a Dread in siege mode?

"Always maintain a rigid state of flexibility"



Patch notes: 3538

You can no longer target other players if you are located inside a force field of a star base, you have to go outside to return fire. Starbase sentries can do so, however.

Harisdrop
Gallente
Vindicate and Deliverance
Posted - 2005.07.20 19:33:00 - [56]
 

Where does it say Dreanaughts can not warp?

Com Cam
Caldari
Confederate Cowboys
Free Worlds Alliance
Posted - 2005.07.20 20:12:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Harisdrop


Patch notes: 3538

You can no longer target other players if you are located inside a force field of a star base, you have to go outside to return fire. Starbase sentries can do so, however.


Ahhh...I am a bit behind on my patch note reading. I did not know this, thanks for pointing it out. This knowlage will definatly help me in my POS planning for when I return from Iraq and get back into the game.

Guess I will have to rely on my sentries and any help I could get from allies (along with some careful defensive planning). But who knows, in 4 months, Dreads and POS abilities could be TOTALLY changed from what it is now. I have noticed Eve is a VERY fluid universe and is forever changing (nerfing).

AS for Dreads warping...never seen anything saying they could not....they can, can't they? Just too big (or what ever) to use jump gates?

"Always maintain a rigid state of flexibility"

HDCamper Itsim
Posted - 2005.07.20 21:37:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: HDCamper Itsim on 21/07/2005 01:57:32
Shields should keep stuff +out not the other way around, people should be able to shoot from within the shields... Those people +who are shooting from the inside, tend to be outnumbered and industrialists on top of that.

At least nerf things to be consistant... Either have shields that keep stuff out or just keep things separated. Otherwise stick the POS modules outside the shield which will make all pvp oriented players that much happier or allow the smaller groups of strategist/builders be able to hold off the more skilled players/besiegers by shooting from within the shield.

Why in the heck shouldnt you be able to shovel fuel and stuff into the pos while its being besieged? Then give it a lot more space to store fuel and componants. If the owner wants to put a years worth of stuff in it, let em.

No, I do not have a POS, and frankly if I can't sell product to an NPC buyer, I won't hardly build it or mine it anymore.

Heck even the BIO seems to be nerfed, try keeping a years worth of interesting highlights in your bio....




Liet Traep
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
IT Alliance
Posted - 2005.08.13 12:44:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Viceroy
POS are outrageously overpowered at the moment. Their price is pathetic compared to their utility, that is if any price could be high enough for that kind of defense.

Dreads ain't no solution.
Dreads help. the thing is POS are a lot cheaper than dreads but require a LOT of maintenance.

Gan Ning
Caldari
Posted - 2005.08.13 16:02:00 - [60]
 

If dreads havent changed much since chaos, they can't warp for several minutes when in siege mode so you wont even need to worry about warp scrambling it. Just make sure your POS has ecm/dampening structures, shield hardening structures and you have a gank fleet head over to help when you come under attack.

Obviously have them go for the dreads first and any other losses you take, even if its your POS will seem trivial.

Dread = several billion
POS = a few hundred million


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