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PaulAtreides
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.06.10 20:36:00 - [1]
 

Moved from 'EVE General Discussion' to 'Features and Ideas Discussion' -Jacques Archambault

Edited by: PaulAtreides on 10/06/2005 21:05:48

Basic Clone + Vetren Player (20 mil + SP's) = Loose.

Alright, so a good friend of mine (not me so don't even start!) forgot to upgrade his clone before he went out to PvP again.. he got unlucky and this was the result:

Originally by: Voice comm. from your old clone

So you died? Well you have a clone at Yulai V - Moon 1 - Viziam Factory station of questionable quality. Enjoy your afterlife, note that 1024000 skill points were lost from the skill Gallente Battleship.


Now obviously he is not very happy about the situation as that is approximatly 1 month of skillpoints that was lost. He admits his mistake that it's entirely his fault for forgetting to update his clone (basic clones apparantly have memory leaks), but due to this loss he has lost interest in playing at all.

I would like to suggest to CCP the following course of action:

1. If you die, a message should appear reminding you to upgrade your clone
1a. This message should appear everytime your clone is no longer up to date and you dock at a station with medical facsilities
1b. It should appear everytime you log on (reminding the player that his top priority should be to get a clone).
2. This message should NOT be disableable.

For anyone that suggests that this should not be correct and it is a bug to lose so many skillpoints... It is not. He has asked.

More suggestions are welcome.

That is all.

EDIT: Bah... formating. Embarassed

Bryanna Rivellan
Der rechte Arm Thors
Posted - 2005.06.10 20:41:00 - [2]
 

Last time I undocked with my "new" self, without settings a new clone, I think I received a message warning me.
Though I am not sure anymore now.

Shocknawe
Hentogaira Technical Community College
Posted - 2005.06.10 20:42:00 - [3]
 

damn that sucks

Sounds like a good idea to me, they have warnings for all kinds of useless stuff so why not for something important like that.

Imran
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2005.06.10 20:46:00 - [4]
 

Maybe a option in space that shows your clone contract, kind of like how your ship insurance contract is shown. Sorry for your bud's loss SadEmbarassed

Shittake
RONA Deepspace
Rule of Three
Posted - 2005.06.10 20:47:00 - [5]
 

It's a shame he lost that many skill points.

BUT I really have no sympathy for a veteran with as much skill points as your friend had undocking without an up-to-date clone.

Tell him not to leave, lesson learned.


PaulAtreides
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.06.10 20:56:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: ****take
It's a shame he lost that many skill points.

BUT I really have no sympathy for a veteran with as much skill points as your friend had undocking without an up-to-date clone.

Tell him not to leave, lesson learned.




I already said he admits it's his fault. Of course I have told him not to leave, but unfortunatly I have not learnt the skill: Power Over People's Lives Lvl 1 yet.

infused
Posted - 2005.06.10 20:57:00 - [7]
 

Ouch

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2005.06.10 20:58:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 10/06/2005 21:00:04
I think there should be an extra tab for your clone contract in your charsheet and that tab should blink along with the charsheet icon in your neocom when your clone isn't up to date. It should keep blinking until you updated your clone. You also should be able to handle the clone contract from the tab in your charsheet.

You shouldn't even have to dock at a medical to do it because basically it's just a phonecall to the clone company: "hey guys, update my clone plz I am more 1337 than this pos you have in the fridge for me by now kthnxbye".

I feel sorry for your mate. Loosing that much time must suck big time.


Joshua Calvert
Caldari
Rule One
Posted - 2005.06.10 20:59:00 - [9]
 

I was around 3M SP's over my clone limit the last time I updated. Had to update to the maximum available one too :(

Cutter John
TARDZ
Gods of Night and Day
Posted - 2005.06.10 21:02:00 - [10]
 

i see nothing wrong with a popup that warns you your clone isnt up to par with your skillpoints. It is something thats very easy to forget about if you havent been podkilled or upgraded your clone for several months.

digitalwanderer
Gallente
DF0 incorporated
Posted - 2005.06.10 21:21:00 - [11]
 

Guess itīs always a good idea to have a message pop up each time you start eve if your clone isnīt up to date or got podded and donīt even have a clone for that matter...


It does bring another issue up though,are even higher sp clones going to be released before the end of the year?...Iīm asking since i wouldnīt be too surprised if there are already quite a few people over the 30 million sp mark right now,and will hit the max for the best current clone well before the end of the year at this rate..Question

Joan Smith
Caldari
Posted - 2005.06.10 21:38:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: PaulAtreides
Edited by: PaulAtreides on 10/06/2005 21:05:48

Basic Clone + Vetren Player (20 mil + SP's) = Loose.

Alright, so a good friend of mine (not me so don't even start!) forgot to upgrade his clone before he went out to PvP again.. he got unlucky and this was the result:

Originally by: Voice comm. from your old clone

So you died? Well you have a clone at Yulai V - Moon 1 - Viziam Factory station of questionable quality. Enjoy your afterlife, note that 1024000 skill points were lost from the skill Gallente Battleship.


Now obviously he is not very happy about the situation as that is approximatly 1 month of skillpoints that was lost. He admits his mistake that it's entirely his fault for forgetting to update his clone (basic clones apparantly have memory leaks), but due to this loss he has lost interest in playing at all.

I would like to suggest to CCP the following course of action:

1. If you die, a message should appear reminding you to upgrade your clone
1a. This message should appear everytime your clone is no longer up to date and you dock at a station with medical facsilities
1b. It should appear everytime you log on (reminding the player that his top priority should be to get a clone).
2. This message should NOT be disableable.

For anyone that suggests that this should not be correct and it is a bug to lose so many skillpoints... It is not. He has asked.

More suggestions are welcome.

That is all.

EDIT: Bah... formating. Embarassed


totally agree

Corvus Dove
Caldari
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2005.06.10 21:45:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Corvus Dove on 10/06/2005 21:48:48
While this is a personal responsibility issue, I think perhaps there's a simple fix that would prevent this sort of thing. Even people who kill others for gits n' shiggles don't want this to happen to them.

When you wake up in a clone, there should be a dialog box that pops up that says:

Originally by: DialogBox

Welcome back. We hope your being brutally killed was quick and painless! Your clone contract has now been fulfilled. Would you like to upgrade to a new clone now? <OK> <Cancel>



If you click "OK", it brings up the Medical interface. If you click "Cancel", the dialog box vanishes and you can access the rest of the screen.

This would be ideal, especially if Medical facilities were given to every NPC base the way Refineries are going to be (see dev blog).

The only possible exploit, for the time being, is people actually getting podded just to upgrade their clone out in BFE where there's no medical. Considering that would be really counterproductive unless you calculated EXACTLY when you'd need to get podded to lose 0 SP in the process (incidentally, taking twice the time and concentration of simply finding a medical facility), the exploit wouldn't be an issue.

And if it were, just make the clone default to the station where your other clone was. You can move it to where you are for 5600 ISK anyway.

Citizen Angstrom
Posted - 2005.06.10 21:49:00 - [14]
 

Sad situation, Good set of suggestions.

Similar sort of thing happened to me, many months back now. Got blown out of my ship in PF, but escaped in my pod. As I made it through the gate into Orvolle, this cold shiver went up and down my spine. Docked, checked, and sure enough, I hadn't renewed or upgraded my clone for some weeks... Shocked

PaulAtreides
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.06.10 21:51:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: PaulAtreides on 10/06/2005 21:57:08
Originally by: Corvus Dove
Edited by: Corvus Dove on 10/06/2005 21:48:48
While this is a personal responsibility issue, I think perhaps there's a simple fix that would prevent this sort of thing. Even people who kill others for gits n' shiggles don't want this to happen to them.

When you wake up in a clone, there should be a dialog box that pops up that says:

Originally by: DialogBox

Welcome back. We hope your being brutally killed was quick and painless! Your clone contract has now been fulfilled. Would you like to upgrade to a new clone now? <OK> <Cancel>



If you click "OK", it brings up the Medical interface. If you click "Cancel", the dialog box vanishes and you can access the rest of the screen.

This would be ideal, especially if Medical facilities were given to every NPC base the way Refineries are going to be (see dev blog).

The only possible exploit, for the time being, is people actually getting podded just to upgrade their clone out in BFE where there's no medical. Considering that would be really counterproductive unless you calculated EXACTLY when you'd need to get podded to lose 0 SP in the process (incidentally, taking twice the time and concentration of simply finding a medical facility), the exploit wouldn't be an issue.

And if it were, just make the clone default to the station where your other clone was. You can move it to where you are for 5600 ISK anyway.


Great suggestion. If your clone contract is at a station with medical, then it should definitly do that.


Corvus Dove
Caldari
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2005.06.10 21:51:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Citizen Angstrom
Sad situation, Good set of suggestions.

Similar sort of thing happened to me, many months back now. Got blown out of my ship in PF, but escaped in my pod. As I made it through the gate into Orvolle, this cold shiver went up and down my spine. Docked, checked, and sure enough, I hadn't renewed or upgraded my clone for some weeks... Shocked



When I buy a clone, I buy twice the one that I'll need. I call it "self-accounting for one's own stupidity" ;).

Meridius
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2005.06.10 22:05:00 - [17]
 

He lost around 1mil sp. Thats a bit less then a month of training. It's harsh and i feel bad for the guy but the tools are there for you man.

If you get podded regularly or don't care about that perhaps keeping a checklist of things to do before going out to pvp would be a good idea.

1. Check clone statusVery Happy

MutationZ
Posted - 2005.06.10 22:25:00 - [18]
 

I agree with the suggestions.

What galls me is the inconsistency. I have a friend who lost SP in the same situation. After training advanced grovelling to specializtion they agreed to give him some points back.

Who decides who gets a yes and who gets a no?


Sangxianc
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.06.10 22:29:00 - [19]
 

I honestly don't see the point in the losing sp system. Yes, I want to cause as much monetary loss to my enemies as possible, so obviously I always go for the pod if I kill their ship, but I really don't want to end up wasting a month of someone's skill training, even if they've been a little biatch.

Maybe I should **** off and go pick flowers though -_-

OffBeaT
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.06.10 22:57:00 - [20]
 

that hqppend too me fighting mOo.

i didnt get all ****y about it. i forgot too insoure my clone.

tuff luck. i better not here any dev or gm give his points back or im gona freak out!

Arte
The Darkness Within
Posted - 2005.06.10 23:03:00 - [21]
 

Agreed. at least one warning.
And also, the ability to check the status and location of your clone in your personal info. Perhaps as an addendum to the attributes tab.

Sadist
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2005.06.10 23:05:00 - [22]
 

I dont want stupid messages popping out because of people's stupidity...

And how the bloody hell do you get podded? By a smartbombing BS?Rolling Eyes

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2005.06.10 23:08:00 - [23]
 

Clone status should be readily available on the character sheet.

PaulAtreides
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.06.10 23:17:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Sadist
I dont want stupid messages popping out because of people's stupidity...
And how the bloody hell do you get podded? By a smartbombing BS?Rolling Eyes


1. These messages would not interfere with gameply.
2. I didn't. But there are many ways you could get podded... like for example flaming this thread. Twisted Evil


Arte
The Darkness Within
Posted - 2005.06.10 23:26:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Arte on 10/06/2005 23:27:58
Some people can get podded due to player skill or lag Sadist. Not everyone is able to get their pod away in time for a myriad of reasons

For what it's worth, posted the idea in the "Ideas and Discussions" forum.
Tough scrubs to yer mate.

OffBeaT
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.06.10 23:33:00 - [26]
 

he's dose not have the right too his points back.

however you should be warned when you leave the station with no clone insurance.

Parhelion
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2005.06.11 04:24:00 - [27]
 

This whole losing skill points is total crap. When your clone is activated a new one should automatically be purchased for you (if you have enough isk of course).

No one in their right mind flys without an up-to-date clone, so why make it an optional thing???


Maxine Stirner
Gallente
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.06.11 04:52:00 - [28]
 

This goes along with my general adherence to the principle that the world would be a better place if we just started taking the warning labels off of things.

I don't particularly care about the clone cost. I liked the old system where you lost 5% of your SP no matter what. It game PvP some real risk vs. reward. Only the best pilots should have remained the best.. but with the game model.. it's only the most cowardly pilots that remain.. well.. the most successfully cowardly anyhow.

I wonder if we could take Jasmine's recent post on Arenas and add SP wagering?

Maxine Stirner
Gallente
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.06.11 04:55:00 - [29]
 

The best system would not be where SP were ever lost to the general populace at large. You should simply lose them to others, or regain them by the same method. Everyone could lose 1% or a fixed (staggered) amount with every pod death, and the recoverable by product can be resorbed by successful combat pilots.

Granted, this wouldn't be a zero sum game as the aggregate SP pool would always be advancing to match new content.

Do that and you can nerf anything you want (like gate camping) because people will strive extra hard to make PvP work anyhow.

Meehan
Viziam
Posted - 2005.06.11 07:11:00 - [30]
 

If you ask me the whole clone concept is kinnda not-good. Clone costs are so small it's no issue for people upgrading them - all it does is leave room for grief if you should forget to as in this case...


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