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blankseplocked CSM chair declaring war on CCP, tells players to bring gasoline.
 
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Reilly Duvolle
Posted - 2011.09.06 06:33:00 - [211]
 

OP updated with links to relevant news articles. Will maintain thread with further updates to OP if/when necessary.

Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2011.09.06 06:42:00 - [212]
 

Originally by: The Mittani
There are two dimensions to CSMing, two levels of interaction with CCP.

At the most useful level you discuss upcoming gameplay with the game designers, chill folks like Soundwave who have their head on right and understand EVE. At this level the CSM has a lot of influence, and there's been no reason for us to "declare war" or "stick it to CCP" because these guys don't make the kind of decisions that result in team allocations; they do things that impact the players in FiS (they nerf supercaps, they Fix Lag, they create farms and fields).

They also already broadly agree with the CSM (which is not divided, but actually has pretty much a consensus of views about FiS) so it's not a very contentious relationship.

At the higher level, in dealing with upper management, things get ugly. Here there is little consensus. Here the calls are made to allocate teams to projects, and the CSM is not happy with what we see. However, our functional level of influence over business processes (as opposed to 'mere' FiS gameplay priorities) is an open question. FiS needs more resources allocated to it or EVE will stagnate, then reach a tipping point. The question is if the management will realize this before that tipping point is reached.

Anyway, my post was to GSF on goonfleet.com. We repost those on Kugu because they leak anyway. This is my first public statement on the matter.


who the f do you think you are?
your nothing more then a fecking muppet playing a game.
This is what you get when power rises to someones head.

Thornat
Posted - 2011.09.06 06:52:00 - [213]
 

Originally by: Garia666
Originally by: The Mittani
There are two dimensions to CSMing, two levels of interaction with CCP.

At the most useful level you discuss upcoming gameplay with the game designers, chill folks like Soundwave who have their head on right and understand EVE. At this level the CSM has a lot of influence, and there's been no reason for us to "declare war" or "stick it to CCP" because these guys don't make the kind of decisions that result in team allocations; they do things that impact the players in FiS (they nerf supercaps, they Fix Lag, they create farms and fields).

They also already broadly agree with the CSM (which is not divided, but actually has pretty much a consensus of views about FiS) so it's not a very contentious relationship.

At the higher level, in dealing with upper management, things get ugly. Here there is little consensus. Here the calls are made to allocate teams to projects, and the CSM is not happy with what we see. However, our functional level of influence over business processes (as opposed to 'mere' FiS gameplay priorities) is an open question. FiS needs more resources allocated to it or EVE will stagnate, then reach a tipping point. The question is if the management will realize this before that tipping point is reached.

Anyway, my post was to GSF on goonfleet.com. We repost those on Kugu because they leak anyway. This is my first public statement on the matter.


who the f do you think you are?
your nothing more then a fecking muppet playing a game.
This is what you get when power rises to someones head.



A muppet playing a game that made the headline of every major game publication on the internet today and will likely have more impact on subscription numbers in a week than CCP has managed in a year. So while I'm not a Mittani fan, I think its quite naive to ignore his clout, which I think is considerable.

When you consider the situation right now you have an outraged community, the CSM speaking out against the company and CCP employees leaking internal information which I think is a sign that not all is well even within their own circles. Meanwhile CCP is silent. The games future is on the line right now and CCP better start making some statements followed by positive actions. If they continue down this road things are only going to get worse.

Its time for CCP to respond and to act. Its time for them to swallow their pride, make amends and starting making it up to the community because if Eve fails, DUST and the Twilight MMO are both doomed to fail with it. Eve is their support crutch for all those projects and right now its in jeapordy. Guys like Mittani have the clout to make things much much worse for them and this statement and the fallout from it is the first sign of that.

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.09.06 07:10:00 - [214]
 

Originally by: The Mittani
There are two dimensions to CSMing, two levels of interaction with CCP.

At the most useful level you discuss upcoming gameplay with the game designers, chill folks like Soundwave who have their head on right and understand EVE. At this level the CSM has a lot of influence, and there's been no reason for us to "declare war" or "stick it to CCP" because these guys don't make the kind of decisions that result in team allocations; they do things that impact the players in FiS (they nerf supercaps, they Fix Lag, they create farms and fields).

They also already broadly agree with the CSM (which is not divided, but actually has pretty much a consensus of views about FiS) so it's not a very contentious relationship.

At the higher level, in dealing with upper management, things get ugly. Here there is little consensus. Here the calls are made to allocate teams to projects, and the CSM is not happy with what we see. However, our functional level of influence over business processes (as opposed to 'mere' FiS gameplay priorities) is an open question. FiS needs more resources allocated to it or EVE will stagnate, then reach a tipping point. The question is if the management will realize this before that tipping point is reached.

Anyway, my post was to GSF on goonfleet.com. We repost those on Kugu because they leak anyway. This is my first public statement on the matter.


Are you really that daft, CCP Soundwave in no way understands the game based on numerous posts he's made on these forums. If it was up to him everyone would have the equivalent of level 5 in every skill and there would be no difference in anyone.

The CSM is a joke, it is a PR stunt nothing more. You have no real say and nothing you say matters. CCP has become the SOE of the last decade. So blinded by their own greed they can't see past their nose, and they'll suffer the same fate unless they move away from greed shortly.

Living Dead Girl
Posted - 2011.09.06 07:14:00 - [215]
 

Originally by: El'Niaga


The CSM is a joke, it is a PR stunt nothing more. You have no real say and nothing you say matters. CCP has become the SOE of the last decade. So blinded by their own greed they can't see past their nose, and they'll suffer the same fate unless they move away from greed shortly.



I agree that for the most part the CSM is a joke. However i think this is one PR move that has the potential to backfire in CCP's face very quickly. Tell me you can see that.

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.09.06 07:16:00 - [216]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: The Mittani
There are two dimensions to CSMing, two levels of interaction with CCP.

At the most useful level you discuss upcoming gameplay with the game designers, chill folks like Soundwave who have their head on right and understand EVE. At this level the CSM has a lot of influence, and there's been no reason for us to "declare war" or "stick it to CCP" because these guys don't make the kind of decisions that result in team allocations; they do things that impact the players in FiS (they nerf supercaps, they Fix Lag, they create farms and fields).

They also already broadly agree with the CSM (which is not divided, but actually has pretty much a consensus of views about FiS) so it's not a very contentious relationship.

At the higher level, in dealing with upper management, things get ugly. Here there is little consensus. Here the calls are made to allocate teams to projects, and the CSM is not happy with what we see. However, our functional level of influence over business processes (as opposed to 'mere' FiS gameplay priorities) is an open question. FiS needs more resources allocated to it or EVE will stagnate, then reach a tipping point. The question is if the management will realize this before that tipping point is reached.

Anyway, my post was to GSF on goonfleet.com. We repost those on Kugu because they leak anyway. This is my first public statement on the matter.


What are the CSM's qualifications of making upper level management decisions?

I will just go ahead and answer you with "none". If you manage to illustrate to the community something other than that, I will gladly retract my statement and instead ask CCP why they don't listen.

I am asking in all seriousness, although admittedly with little hope of an answer.

Thanks in advance.


A few of us are or have actually been upper management in different companies (trebor has his own successful company, as does Seleene I believe, I was CTO and on the board of a company, etc.) by the way, but that's not important, the important part is this:

We are qualified to make that kind of judgement not based on the impact on the bottom line (ie, financial) of CCP (though we can give our substantiated opinion), but when it comes to understanding player behaviour and reception, we are connected to a lot of people, and have shown repeatedly to be much better at providing valid understanding than CCP itself has on its own.

It's also not hard to see when management is out of line with reality by what they say. We're in the trenches, playing the game, they're not. So when it comes to judging what actually happens in game, we are better qualified than them if they don't have the correct information to go by. And that's one of our uses, provide our contacts with information that they can relay. If the quantitative aspects are not understood appropriately, then our job is to point that out too.

Meissa


Get over yourself, you were not hired by CCP. The CSM was not asked to help make upper management decisions. You're just a firewall between CCP and their customers, nothing more nothing less. To pretend otherwise is delusional.

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.09.06 07:22:00 - [217]
 

Originally by: Living Dead Girl
Originally by: El'Niaga


The CSM is a joke, it is a PR stunt nothing more. You have no real say and nothing you say matters. CCP has become the SOE of the last decade. So blinded by their own greed they can't see past their nose, and they'll suffer the same fate unless they move away from greed shortly.



I agree that for the most part the CSM is a joke. However i think this is one PR move that has the potential to backfire in CCP's face very quickly. Tell me you can see that.


Truthfully its probably to late to save EVE. Incarna was rolled out in such incompetent fashion I doubt they recover. Their loss of average players resembles what SWG suffered after the CU implementation. So in essence Incarna is EVE's CU, not because it was a bad idea but because it was released in an unusable incomplete fashion by incompetent management to meet a deadline. Folks that were waiting on it tried it now and saw what a mess it is, no interaction etc and moved on, not likely they'll be back.

Based on what little has been released in blogs about the winter expansion coupled with posts over the last few years by CCP Soundwave and his band I believe it'll be the NGE of EVE.

Replacing forums etc is something you do when you don't want folks to see what's gone before, but its to late. Mirrors exists, people already know and it just looks like a cover up. SOE did the same thing at the start of the NGE. Within 6 months they removed their old forums completely even though they were suppose to be archived. The same will happen here.

Short of it, Eve has between 3-5 years left, they'll be declining years. The failed rollouts and decisions of the last 2 years and going forward will probably negatively impact CCPs bottom line for the next decade or two adversely affecting WoD sales.

Zirse
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.09.06 07:26:00 - [218]
 

There are so many angry sperglords in this thread, it's quite entertaining.

People whining about the CSM.

People whining about Goons.

People whining about CCP.

People whining about whiners.

2011; year of the whine.

/popcorn

Trolls Troll
Posted - 2011.09.06 07:28:00 - [219]
 

Originally by: Zirse
me whining about people



/popcorn

Zirse
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.09.06 07:32:00 - [220]
 

Originally by: Trolls Troll
Originally by: Zirse
me whining about people



/popcorn


We're so meta.

Mr Plack
Posted - 2011.09.06 08:01:00 - [221]
 

I'm really no big friend of Mittens (that's what I call my cat iRL btw) but I totally agree with what he said in the linked article.

It's also exactly what I expected (and frankly it's the same **** that's happening at the company I currently work for). The people working at the "front" are not the people that are crash-landing this plane called EVE online straight into the ground. It's the MBA quacks and ex-Citigroup people that are causing this game to crash. I mean, they were at the university and learned how the world and by extension the entire material universe works so I guess they're way better qualified to decide how this game should die then us stupid customer morons that have been here for 8 years. I mean, if CCP had listened to us 8 years ago then EVE would never have gone from a game with a PCU of 1000 to a game with a 50k PCU... oh wait.

All I can hope for is that someone in the upper management grows a pair of balls, realizes that they (and their co-managers) are full of **** and not worth the material that their 1'000$ designer pants are made of and give the control back to the people that actually care about making a good game (and not just maximizing profits).

In a way I think what is currently happening to EVE is a great model for what is happening in the rest of the world. Capitalism is supposed to bring us (the consumers) more products and services and (through competition) cheaper prices and better quality. What we see now is capitalism gone sour (because the control and regulation of the system was left in the hands of the people that have the most to gain by exploiting and using cheats and tricks to maximize their personal wealth instead of providing a good product/service).

I mean, what does a guy like CCPs current CFO (search him on linkedin if you're interested) care if this game lives or dies or if the gaming experience is good, bad or indifferent. What does he care if CCP are using our subscription fees (that are intended to improve the game we play) to design new crappy pants that CCP will sell back to us for 70$ a pair? That's right... he doesn't give a flying **** about it. He's already rich enough to buy those pairs of designer pants in real life 10 times over and I bet he never even knew what EVE was until he left Citigroup to join CCP.

If the company is being run by people like that, who is amazed that it's no longer interested in providing a good game experience?

I'm not, that's for sure.

I fully support Mittens and the goons in their media-battle against CCPs management and hope that CCP will listen (I know, I'm naive).

Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2011.09.06 08:14:00 - [222]
 

Originally by: Thornat
Originally by: Garia666
Originally by: The Mittani
There are two dimensions to CSMing, two levels of interaction with CCP.

At the most useful level you discuss upcoming gameplay with the game designers, chill folks like Soundwave who have their head on right and understand EVE. At this level the CSM has a lot of influence, and there's been no reason for us to "declare war" or "stick it to CCP" because these guys don't make the kind of decisions that result in team allocations; they do things that impact the players in FiS (they nerf supercaps, they Fix Lag, they create farms and fields).

They also already broadly agree with the CSM (which is not divided, but actually has pretty much a consensus of views about FiS) so it's not a very contentious relationship.

At the higher level, in dealing with upper management, things get ugly. Here there is little consensus. Here the calls are made to allocate teams to projects, and the CSM is not happy with what we see. However, our functional level of influence over business processes (as opposed to 'mere' FiS gameplay priorities) is an open question. FiS needs more resources allocated to it or EVE will stagnate, then reach a tipping point. The question is if the management will realize this before that tipping point is reached.

Anyway, my post was to GSF on goonfleet.com. We repost those on Kugu because they leak anyway. This is my first public statement on the matter.


who the f do you think you are?
your nothing more then a fecking muppet playing a game.
This is what you get when power rises to someones head.



A muppet playing a game that made the headline of every major game publication on the internet today and will likely have more impact on subscription numbers in a week than CCP has managed in a year. So while I'm not a Mittani fan, I think its quite naive to ignore his clout, which I think is considerable.

When you consider the situation right now you have an outraged community, the CSM speaking out against the company and CCP employees leaking internal information which I think is a sign that not all is well even within their own circles. Meanwhile CCP is silent. The games future is on the line right now and CCP better start making some statements followed by positive actions. If they continue down this road things are only going to get worse.

Its time for CCP to respond and to act. Its time for them to swallow their pride, make amends and starting making it up to the community because if Eve fails, DUST and the Twilight MMO are both doomed to fail with it. Eve is their support crutch for all those projects and right now its in jeapordy. Guys like Mittani have the clout to make things much much worse for them and this statement and the fallout from it is the first sign of that.


Well i hope he decides to quit the game and take all his goons friends with him..

Living Dead Girl
Posted - 2011.09.06 08:17:00 - [223]
 

Originally by: Mr Plack

I fully support Mittens and the goons in their media-battle against CCPs management and hope that CCP will listen (I know, I'm naive).


Even tho the stuff he's saying has been said for months now, He's got my support....

You have my rifter!


amidoinitright?

Signal11th
Posted - 2011.09.06 08:23:00 - [224]
 

As usual in life there are sheep and shepards, sheep will always follow even if the shepard is a blithering idiot.

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.09.06 10:34:00 - [225]
 

Originally by: Thornat

who the f do you think you are?
your nothing more then a fecking muppet playing a game.
This is what you get when power rises to someones head.



A muppet playing a game that made the headline of every major game publication on the internet today


Funny thing about that... "every news publication" didnt find his post till hours after he made it then they all seem to have found it and quoted it verbatim like it was an interview. Almost like they emailed the link. An in that case, I dont give him any credit for shoving his posts down the "news" ppl's throats.

Stalking Mantis
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2011.09.06 11:31:00 - [226]
 

Ladies and Gentleman please take a step back here.

There is alot of energy here that In my humble opinion needs to be focused on one thing. Reforming the mechanics of the CSM/CCP relationship.

To me this reform should be top priority over anything else at the moment because as it is we see much abuse from CCP to the CSM. Not only this CSM but the CSM before it and the one before it etc.

-CSM does NOT have the authority to enforce CCP policy, Understand this fact.

CCP seems to have some sort of skewed 'NDA' that is 'abused' from time to time to gag the CSM from telling the body it represents certain things that in my opinion are blanketed by CCP as something that is somehow covered in the NDA.

I suggest this CSM body (along with any future ones) and the player base to empower themselves more by looking at the exact relationship CSM has with CCP and attempt to have it modified so that it is not so beneficial to CCP when and where CCP wants it to be. If anything I would like for Mittens and his respective team to address that factor more than anything.

The CSM has an obligation towards the player base. They represent the player base, how many times has CCP tried to gloss over the CSM and use it as a mouth-piece (see the minutes of the emergency meeting as a prime example.

Go in that direction people, as of now there is much being thrown around at different people for different things, things like 'I hate Goons' or 'The Mittani sucks'. This will never change a thing until the relationship between CCP and CSM is revised or we will be here in this boat yelling at each other no matter who is on the CSM.

SupaKudoRio
Posted - 2011.09.06 11:40:00 - [227]
 

Originally by: Living Dead Girl
You have my rifter!

And my Rook!

Quote:
amidoinitright?

Kerppe Krulli
Posted - 2011.09.06 14:42:00 - [228]
 

Originally by: Stalking Mantis

The CSM has an obligation towards the player base. They represent the player base, how many times has CCP tried to gloss over the CSM and use it as a mouth-piece (see the minutes of the emergency meeting as a prime example.



Like any elected person, the only thing they represent are those that put them there. Any thought the contrary is illogical and unrealistic.

CSM heavily represents 0.0 alliances and therefore those CSM members will focus almost exclusively on things that will benefit 0.0 alliance, it is typical of politics. If you live in district A do you think you can call the Representative of District C and expect them to give a flying flip about your problems or wishes. No, you go to your representative as that is the only person who will feign care as they need your vote to stay in power.

Same here and this is also the reason they separated EveU's influence over the list of priorities for the CSM. 0.0 alliance couldn't pull the vote numbers that EveU did, so they changed the rules after-the-fact to fit the needs of the majority of what the CSM represents: 0.0 Alliances.

Stalking Mantis
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2011.09.06 15:38:00 - [229]
 

Originally by: Kerppe Krulli
Originally by: Stalking Mantis

The CSM has an obligation towards the player base. They represent the player base, how many times has CCP tried to gloss over the CSM and use it as a mouth-piece (see the minutes of the emergency meeting as a prime example.



Like any elected person, the only thing they represent are those that put them there. Any thought the contrary is illogical and unrealistic.

CSM heavily represents 0.0 alliances and therefore those CSM members will focus almost exclusively on things that will benefit 0.0 alliance, it is typical of politics. If you live in district A do you think you can call the Representative of District C and expect them to give a flying flip about your problems or wishes. No, you go to your representative as that is the only person who will feign care as they need your vote to stay in power.

Same here and this is also the reason they separated EveU's influence over the list of priorities for the CSM. 0.0 alliance couldn't pull the vote numbers that EveU did, so they changed the rules after-the-fact to fit the needs of the majority of what the CSM represents: 0.0 Alliances.


With all due respect sir,
Welcome to politics and politicians. Since when have politicions truly represented 'EVERYONE'S' interest? Hence the importance of voting etc.

But truly take a step back and look at the powers the CSM have, can they do with a review and change to empower the CSM (us through voting for them) more than what CCP is using them for now?

Reilly Duvolle
Posted - 2011.09.06 16:03:00 - [230]
 

Edited by: Reilly Duvolle on 06/09/2011 16:03:34
The thread is now posted on the new forums here, and will no longer be updated on this forum.

E man Industries
Posted - 2011.09.06 16:04:00 - [231]
 

Great!

FIS needs more resources.
CCP needs to understand that, the FIS portion of the game has stagnated and active players support that conclusion.

Didn't vote for mittens(did vote for other reps who got in) but he seems to want to improve EvE and is willing to do what he thinks is best for the game...

Can't fault him for that...

so quit the boo hoo CSM are just players BS....
we all want FIS to be better and CCP is not allocating enough resources to FIS...
So....ccp are you paying attention?or will we get a new set of boots.

Drifterin Thedark
Posted - 2011.09.06 16:08:00 - [232]
 

There is no doubt in my mind anymore. Mittani was the one who leaked that internal CCP newsletter.

Prince Kobol
Posted - 2011.09.06 16:18:00 - [233]
 

Edited by: Prince Kobol on 06/09/2011 16:19:03
People People People

CCP DO NOT CARE

The ONLY thing that will make the suits at CCP take any notice is people cancelling there accounts and ONLY then if the income from subscriptions and the purchases of PLEX for the use of adding game time continually fall over a period of time.

You can make as many posts as you like on the forums, Alexander 'The Mittani' Gianturco can have his delusions of grandeur and it will NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE

You want change, then do the following

1. Go to https://secure.eveonline.com/

2. Log In

3. Click On Game Time

4. Click on Cancel Subscription

5. Give Reason

6. Click on Cancel Subscription

or if you pay via plex - STOP adding game time.

If enough people do this the then the suits at CCP will start to take notice and maybe, maybe things will change.


Ghoest
Posted - 2011.09.06 16:21:00 - [234]
 

Mittens is spooging himself every time he logs on this forum and see this big thread.

Ineka
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.09.06 16:25:00 - [235]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
Mittens is spooging himself every time he logs on this forum and see this big thread.


Yeah he's in his 40's crises.

Be happy, he's becoming a man. Laughing

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.09.06 18:36:00 - [236]
 

Mittens says "It is not yet time to declare war"

EVE-O forums "MITTENS DECLARES WAR RABBLE RABBLE"

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.09.06 20:16:00 - [237]
 

Originally by: Drifterin Thedark
There is no doubt in my mind anymore. Mittani was the one who leaked that internal CCP newsletter.


There is no way that is true, but I'm sure he is tickled pink to think that people are willing to believe that.

I guess his little 180 worked. People are buying this. Whatever. At least Mittani did end up on the right side of the argument about incarna. Took him long enough.

daisy cutta
Posted - 2011.09.06 20:38:00 - [238]
 

Edited by: daisy cutta on 06/09/2011 20:41:54


This is a high risk by mittani

He is the chair of the CSM, I hope that all the CSM were aware of the post on the Goons forums before this went so public

This could backfire and do alot of damage with the CSM and CCP relations

Im hoping that this isnt one guy boosting his ego, cos if it is then I feel that his role as chair of the CSM could be short lived


However, if it has full CSM support, then I wish it well as I agree that we want something new to do and not to wear


Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.09.06 21:02:00 - [239]
 

Just curious, how much would it cost to take over CCP and get rid of the upper management?

BehindDOORNEXWhore
Posted - 2011.09.06 21:10:00 - [240]
 

Originally by: Ephemeron
Just curious, how much would it cost to take over CCP and get rid of the upper management?


7500 Aurum and 13 Plex Twisted Evil


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