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Aphoxema G
PONIES EVERWHERE
Posted - 2011.08.30 19:49:00 - [1]
 

I'm not giving up, I'll never give up, but I'm losing hope.

I won't bother to look up when Kuvakai returned... I just know it feels like it was much longer ago than it really has been. The Nation is made of flesh and machine but it might as well be stone; every battle that's been won to hold the incursions back hasn't slowed the inevitable next attack.

The sheer number of their forces has eclipsed whatever my imagination could predict. At first I was afraid, I knew they were a bigger threat than rogue drones could ever really be, but I knew there would be people willing to fight with the firepower necessary. Now I'm not afraid anymore. I'm not resigned... I do know I'm reaching a limit I've never really faced before.

Even if I step away to allow myself to recover, I don't think rest will come easy facing the guilt that I am not helping to eliminate the biggest threat to Humanity that we have ever faced. The Nation doesn't just take your allegiance, they take your dreams and expectations. They delete memes and turn people into war processors. It's not a fight over beliefs, it's absolute subjugation of our ability to hold beliefs.

That's why I have to ask all who will hear me to do the same as Sansha's Nation must do. I won't dare to tell you that your wars and conflicts are less important than this. I'm not fighting those battles, I can't understand them so I can't judge them. I must ask, however, for everyone to reevaluate their current positions and objectives.

There is a very real possibility, should the Nation forces continue to show such resilience, that they can conquer the entire cluster should they choose to. They don't suffer the limitations we do. We have to be conceived, grow, learn, practice and choose which sides we're on.

The Nation only has to kidnap and manipulate us in a way we can't resist. They change the ratio of progress exponentially with every capture. Like bacteria dividing, they not only have their initial force but they gain more with each generation.

Every person who joins the fight is important, but we'll need more... many more... because I know I'm not the only one starting to break.

Malcolm Khross
Caldari
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
Posted - 2011.08.30 20:03:00 - [2]
 

It be important to know thyself enough to know when ye be reaching your limits. An earnest plea for support and assistance whilst yearning for a kindred spirit or three should nay go unheard.

Already doing what little I be able to 'gainst Nation and its vile encroach, as are plenty others, but sometimes a rally call be necessary.

Lest your plea be seen as a sign o' weakness by Kuvakei and his lackeys, mayhap this be a good time for e'eryone to voice their stalwart opposition to this festering carbuncle once 'gain. 'Twould serve as both encouragement to ye and those like ye and a reminder to Kuvakei that we nay be goin' quietly into the refuse o' his camp.

Drake Arson
Minmatar
Redicuously Awesome Winged Reptiles
Arson Industries
Posted - 2011.08.31 04:43:00 - [3]
 

We don't sleep.
We don't stop.
We don't fear.

And we never will.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.08.31 06:21:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 31/08/2011 06:21:15
There is nothing to fear.

The human race is so vast, so diverse, so decentralized and unruly, that not even Kuvakai can to what the known empires have tried and failed at: total control.

Even Sansha must rely to some extent on consent. The suicidal nature of his pilots shows that they still have some control.

He probably thinks that's a good thing, but real liberty reigns where those who think they have installed themselves as tyrants have only an illusion to rule over.



ValentinaDLM
Minmatar
Ubi Concordia Ibi Victoria
Posted - 2011.08.31 07:36:00 - [5]
 

The practical solution is easy: Don't fight the Nation. If the Nation makes moves towards integrating the cluster, the simplest thing to do, is not to fight, just let them, your resistance won't change anything. This will spare everyone the pain of conflict. No matter how many Nation ships are destroyed, more will come.

I fight in other wars these days, I suggest you do the same.

Thgil Goldcore
Amarr
Robonia
Posted - 2011.08.31 08:44:00 - [6]
 

because of the nature of the beast its impossible to tell what strength they have left in them. Tommorow very well could be their last attack, or it could go on for years. One thing is certain... The strength and faith we have will overcome all evils.

Nakal Ashera
Posted - 2011.08.31 09:11:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Nakal Ashera on 31/08/2011 09:16:27
It consistantly confuses me as to how people can behold a force with completely stagnant tactics that is utterly butchered in every battle they engage in, and see the greatest threat to mankind ever known.

A force that most Capsuleers fight against simply for economic gain, and some even for sport.



Marissa Aldeland
Posted - 2011.08.31 10:41:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Nakal Ashera
It consistantly confuses me as to how people can behold a force with completely stagnant tactics that is utterly butchered in every battle they engage in, and see the greatest threat to mankind ever known.


Because it's still a battle of attrition. They open a wormhole, they come through, and it is just because of the actions of a lot of capsuleers that they're beaten back. And even then, planets are still left devoid of any human life.

Everytime a planet is left empty, Sansha's war machinery has some more cannon fodder to throw back at us.

Face it, they may be beaten back again and again. But we still lose, one planet at a time, until there's nothing left to defend.

Kalaratiri
Minmatar
Teraa Matar
Posted - 2011.08.31 11:15:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Marissa Aldeland
Originally by: Nakal Ashera
It consistantly confuses me as to how people can behold a force with completely stagnant tactics that is utterly butchered in every battle they engage in, and see the greatest threat to mankind ever known.


Because it's still a battle of attrition. They open a wormhole, they come through, and it is just because of the actions of a lot of capsuleers that they're beaten back. And even then, planets are still left devoid of any human life.

Everytime a planet is left empty, Sansha's war machinery has some more cannon fodder to throw back at us.

Face it, they may be beaten back again and again. But we still lose, one planet at a time, until there's nothing left to defend.



Actually, for the last couple of attacks they haven't even bothered going after planetary populations. Disrupting trade, on the Jita gate in New Caldari, seems to be fun for them. Also, appearing at the solar body of a system and simply challenging capsuleers to do their worst. The true slaves are out for the fight now, not the kidnapping.

Although I expect they still enjoy that every now and then.

Nakal Ashera
Posted - 2011.08.31 11:21:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Nakal Ashera on 31/08/2011 11:30:55
Originally by: Marissa Aldeland
Originally by: Nakal Ashera
It consistantly confuses me as to how people can behold a force with completely stagnant tactics that is utterly butchered in every battle they engage in, and see the greatest threat to mankind ever known.


Because it's still a battle of attrition. They open a wormhole, they come through, and it is just because of the actions of a lot of capsuleers that they're beaten back. And even then, planets are still left devoid of any human life.

Everytime a planet is left empty, Sansha's war machinery has some more cannon fodder to throw back at us.

Face it, they may be beaten back again and again. But we still lose, one planet at a time, until there's nothing left to defend.



When was the last time that the Nation managed to capture any decent amount of people? The only occasion it's ever even been worthy of galactic news, the sole areas that were vulnerable were small colonies in low-security space, with the total amount lost numbering only in the low millions. And if we consider the amount of nation ships sacrificed in process - most of them battleships, with a crew generously around 3000 - the gain does not seem so great after all.

Since then, Capsuleer reactions have become far faster and more effective. Specialized setups to combat the incredibly predictable nation fleets are in wide circulation - the whole process has become routine. Not enough planetary peoples are being taken for it to even be noteworthy. And meanwhile, the Nation is still suffering devastating losses.

I understand the Nation is a credible threat. But it is not the unstoppable force of untold power that many seem to believe it to be.


Originally by: ValentinaDLM
The practical solution is easy: Don't fight the Nation. If the Nation makes moves towards integrating the cluster, the simplest thing to do, is not to fight, just let them, your resistance won't change anything. This will spare everyone the pain of conflict. No matter how many Nation ships are destroyed, more will come.

I fight in other wars these days, I suggest you do the same.


Captain Valentina, it is somewhat deceitful to present yourself as some sort of war-weary individual merely accepting the inevitable when you were alongside the Nation fleet in New Caldari this weekeend, cheering wildly for their success as they got slaughtered by the angry influx from Jita, and addressing them as your brothers and sisters in arms.

Ava Starfire
Minmatar
Teraa Matar
Posted - 2011.08.31 11:31:00 - [11]
 

Kuvakei is a boogeyman, hiding under the bed, in the closet, and every once in a while, peeking out (Through lackeys, of course) and shouting "BOO! Look at me! I am relevant, I matter!"

I will spend my time fighting off the people who have actually succeeded in causing me and mine harm, thanks. You can lay awake worrying about the "What ifs".

Avlynka

Malcolm Khross
Caldari
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
Posted - 2011.08.31 12:24:00 - [12]
 

So what's being said here simply be that nobody takes Kuvakei seriously anymore? Shiny.

ValentinaDLM
Minmatar
Ubi Concordia Ibi Victoria
Posted - 2011.08.31 16:41:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Nakal Ashera

Captain Valentina, it is somewhat deceitful to present yourself as some sort of war-weary individual merely accepting the inevitable when you were alongside the Nation fleet in New Caldari this weekeend, cheering wildly for their success as they got slaughtered by the angry influx from Jita, and addressing them as your brothers and sisters in arms.


Fair enough, Nation called on me and I responded, this is true, It is also true that while the 24th Imperial Crusade contributes the majority of funds to my corporation, both True Power and True Creations also contribute. I am not attempting to be deceitful. I have however, not been participating in the attacking of capsuleers under the banner of the Nation as I had in the past.

I know, that it is heretical to support the Nation, however I find that when asked to do so, I have a very hard time saying no. I guess, despite the fact that I can't see the unity the Nation is promising being brought to bear, the idea of it, even some time distant in the future still has some strong hold over me. It is also true however, that I am actively engaged in combat against the Tribal Liberation Force, and that this is where the vast majority of my efforts are directed, hence my comment that I am fighting other wars.

I am not seeking to be deceitful, merely that the truth of the matter is a bit complex, and my own feelings are at times.... difficult for even me to discern.

Malcolm Khross
Caldari
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
Posted - 2011.08.31 17:56:00 - [14]
 

Looks like we'll be prayin' for ye to get your emotions under control for the foreseeable future, lass.

Bein' governed by your emotions, 'specially when they be irrational and destructive to self and others be folly o' the highest degree. Learn to get a reign on 'em or for the sake o' e'eryone else, leave the pod and ne'er get back in one.

Niraia
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2011.08.31 21:26:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: ValentinaDLM
I know, that it is heretical to support the Nation, however I find that when asked to do so, I have a very hard time saying no.


This is why you may never prosper. Stop being such a coward.



Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.09.01 01:24:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Malcolm Khross
So what's being said here simply be that nobody takes Kuvakei seriously anymore? Shiny.




There is something that goes on that I am not sure about.

In a recent incursion I noticed that Nation had their Revenant fielded, but unlike in the past, it persisted for days.

I remember the days when pilots would clamber over each other to get at the motherships.

I even took a rookie ship - being free and plentiful - into the field where the mothership was cruising and shortly after losing it, as expected, got an up close view of it. Evidently Nation pilots still lack interest in killing capsules but this could be an intent to lend false sense of security for the day that comes when they can easily start hacking the pods. Pod hacks are rare, and we know of one incident.


If Nation ever decides to keep the systems they inhabit, instead of eventually pulling out, this could change things - and all those other little wars, and especially the little wars between the empires - become moot.


Malcolm Khross
Caldari
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
Posted - 2011.09.01 01:44:00 - [17]
 

Thank ye for echoing me point, captain.

Myxx
Atropos Group
Posted - 2011.09.01 05:47:00 - [18]
 

I've done my fair share against the Nation. and from what ive seen, its more or less handled. I could probably get back into it, but the people I usually fly with aren't too active currently.

I wouldn't be too worried. Kuvakei isn't as big of a threat anymore. He wants to challenge our will and is not doing such a great job of it.

Marissa Aldeland
Posted - 2011.09.01 09:28:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Myxx
I've done my fair share against the Nation. and from what ive seen, its more or less handled. I could probably get back into it, but the people I usually fly with aren't too active currently.

I wouldn't be too worried. Kuvakei isn't as big of a threat anymore. He wants to challenge our will and is not doing such a great job of it.


"More or less" is the operative word here. A "more or less" controlled fire may still fan out. A "more or less" handled disease - and yes, I find the comparison of Sansha's Nation to a disease raging through New Eden quite apt - can still mutate, gain resistence against current treatments or turn more violent.

Still, we're defending. Nothing more. No idea how many slaves or ships Sansha can still throw against us. And I don't think Sansha Kuvakei to be a fool, so if he continues with a modus operandi which seems to be fruitless, there must be more to it.

I'm pretty sure what we see now is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.


Lucian Alucard
Caldari
Black Vice Industries
Posted - 2011.09.01 13:21:00 - [20]
 

Seeing as we have literally eternity too find his little lair and then crush him I think it best for you too step back and find a planet that is enjoying it's last days of summer,enjoy yourself for awhile and then return too the wholesale slaughter of his Nation. Personally I'd have thought by now you'd have learned too pace yourself in such matters and remember not too become overwhelmed by the big picture.

N'maro Makari
Posted - 2011.09.01 13:34:00 - [21]
 

I'd be a little cautious about pronouncing the Kuvakei issue as good as dead. I remind you that in Hebisa the Capsuleer fleet was almost completely devastated by the nation's hit and run tactics.

Vaari
Amarr
Imperial Pharmacy
Posted - 2011.09.01 13:35:00 - [22]
 

When Amarr nation were only one of the nation in Artha, we launcher grand crusade against every nation of that world, and against all possibilities, after hal millenium of constant war, the faithful emmerged victorious. I do not except nothing less from our Empire today, nor its peoples. If we are threatened from any force from outside or in, her majesty will surely protect us.

N'maro Makari
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:09:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: N''maro Makari on 01/09/2011 14:09:57
Originally by: Vaari
When Amarr nation were only one of the nation in Artha, we launcher grand crusade against every nation of that world, and against all possibilities, after hal millenium of constant war, the faithful emmerged victorious. I do not except nothing less from our Empire today, nor its peoples. If we are threatened from any force from outside or in, her majesty will surely protect us.


Funny, I think I read that as a quote from just prior to Vak'Atioth.

I dont mean that as a jab, but to point out that surely your God requires some effort on your part? After all, whats the use of lazy followers.

Manwe Todako
Minmatar
Disciples of Ston
Posted - 2011.09.01 14:16:00 - [24]
 

Aphoxema,
Please repost this thread when the new forum is up. While I have no experience or expertise in this area, the perspectives here have been helpful to my understanding of capsuleer thinking.

Aphoxema G
PONIES EVERWHERE
Posted - 2011.09.01 23:33:00 - [25]
 

I'm shocked that this thread provoked as much discussion as it had. I was exhausted and desperate (and I still am), and forgetting to log out of my console my wife saw what I had said. After that she thoughtfully dropped a sedative in my Quafe and locked me in the bedroom until I promised to tell her my feelings from now on and take time to rest between incursions.

Clearly the lesson to be learned here is to logout after my emotionally charged pleas for support so I don't risk having someone do all that dumb stuff like saving me from myself and generally improve my quality of life.

Lucian Alucard
Caldari
Black Vice Industries
Posted - 2011.09.02 01:57:00 - [26]
 

I'd be frustrated too if I keep fighting the Sansha's with a shield tanked group. *winks with a devilish smile* Listen too your wife more, you did marry her after all.

Aphoxema G
PONIES EVERWHERE
Posted - 2011.09.02 03:04:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Lucian Alucard
I'd be frustrated too if I keep fighting the Sansha's with a shield tanked group. *winks with a devilish smile* Listen too your wife more, you did marry her after all.


My tinkering with neurological interfaces to discover new qualia to better experience the impact of weapons' fire is a lot more satisfying with the variety of waveforms that can be produced by shield disturbances.

I didn't marry to have someone tell me what to do, but I can't imagine an idea I've had that was better than promising to be with her forever. I mean, that may suggest my perceived threshold for good decisions may be very high but I have to admit that it isn't so...

I'm starting to take the whole responsibility for my own future thing a little more seriously now. I wonder if PTS should continue to let anyone so young take the reigns of a war machine.

Vaari
Amarr
Imperial Pharmacy
Posted - 2011.09.03 01:35:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: N'maro Makari
Edited by: N''maro Makari on 01/09/2011 14:09:57
Originally by: Vaari
When Amarr nation were only one of the nation in Artha, we launcher grand crusade against every nation of that world, and against all possibilities, after hal millenium of constant war, the faithful emmerged victorious. I do not except nothing less from our Empire today, nor its peoples. If we are threatened from any force from outside or in, her majesty will surely protect us.


Funny, I think I read that as a quote from just prior to Vak'Atioth.

I dont mean that as a jab, but to point out that surely your God requires some effort on your part? After all, whats the use of lazy followers.


You are partly right mr Makari. I, myself have preached a lot of dangers of we turn to be lazy and unworthy of His gifts.

Yet, Vak'Atiot was only small conflict. I suspect turnout would have been different, if full imperial battlefleet would have been taken part of it. I cannot imagine Jove Directorate being able to defend itself, if entire Imperial Armada would attack against it. Yet, it was not will of our emperor to subjucate joves, so it di not happened.


 

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