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Rhinanna
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.08.31 00:07:00 - [31]
 

Quote:
didn't actually blizzard burned a lot of graphic cards due to faulty programming on sc2? and they did took responsability about it


Was bad programming yes, however the reason ALL graphics cards that played SC2 didn't burn out was simply because most graphics cards have protection against this well known problem. Its been around since the beginning of computing. Hell, we used to write viruses in the old days that caused the spin speed of people's HDDs to be set to it's max level so that their HDD motor melted or the disc crashed into the head.

Modern hardware is built to be immune to this. Also as far as I can tell, Blizzard have not admitted any fault or replaced any graphics card. They have verified the bug exists but not that they were responsible for any hardware damage.

The CQ problem however is simply that it tries to achieve a higher framerate than most hardware can achieve, so runs the hardware at 100%. This should be fine for all hardware if you have sufficient cooling.

Quote:
my PC plays everything at high everything. My (noisy) GPU fan rarely comes on unless ambient temps are high. the instant I dock into a CQ environment my GPU fan starts. What does this suggest to you?

That your GPU is running at 100%.
Thats all.
If you computer doesn't do this in other modern games, I'd look at why your graphics card isn't using anywhere near it's full capacity in those games.

Also I'm calling bull**** on the rest of it, given the latest top end graphics card only make 20fps on full top settings on some of the latest games, even running them SLI doesn't bump it up that much, I very much doubt that you ARE running the latest games on all top settings without it doing this, unless you are running it in a low resolution or something like that(which isn't top settings), certainly not without the graphics card running up to 100%, which is all CQ does.

Oh and btw, I'm not defending CCP, I really dislike CQ, however I dislike ignorance more.



Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2011.08.31 00:14:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Spurty on 31/08/2011 00:14:48
As a gamer I run the latest systems.

Runs fine for me on my current system. When that was encrypting a hard drive, I tried on the wifes machine (my last years model type hand me down).

Oh boy, sucks to be playing on 2010 technology

People stuck with gear older than that, I see what you're all moaning about now.

>.<

Corker of a typo but now fixed :-)

If I didn't have kids, would donate to someone geographically close and low income.


Forum Worrier
Posted - 2011.08.31 01:34:00 - [33]
 

Quote:
There is no Prime95 for GPUs, unfortunately, but you can use rthdribl. It's probably the best tool for the job. http://www.daionet.gr.jp/~masa/rthdribl/


Check out Furmark. Commonly used to test overclocks for stability and setup fan profiles.

Quote:
so I have yet to see an answer to why this game causes heat issues when no other does. you can bang on about the cooling issues but if there was a heat issue, wouldnt that issue be present in every game you play then?


Inadequate cooling is the cause of your heat issue. CQ can only make your GPU run at high loads. If your GPU running at high loads is causing a heat issue then take a guess at what the problem is.

Quote:
****in sick of morons like you. my PC plays everything at high everything. My (noisy) GPU fan rarely comes on unless ambient temps are high. the instant I dock into a CQ environment my GPU fan starts. What does this suggest to you? control groups: all general PC use including watching tv: no GPU fan high level gaming at full settings including cod series, crysis: no GPU fan Eve online, in space: no GPU fan CQ: immediate GPU fan switch on. In this experiment I have identified CQ as the reason my GPU fan comes on, indicating that CQ causes my GPU to heat up significantly more than ANY OTHER SINGLE THING i do on my PC. my PC has a windows experience rating of 7.8 and is cleaned and maintained regularily due to the fact its built in a bookcase in my front room. ****ing moron.


Terribly sorry old chap, but you're the moron. You're quoting a guy stating "it is IMPOSSIBLE for ccps code to have fried any GPU that was properly designed, manufactured, installed and maintained" and your argument is that OMG CQ makes my gpu fan turn on!?!

We all acknowledge the fact that CQ is poorly optimised and loads up the GPU. That your computer cannot handle a program that actually uses your GPU to its full potential is another issue entirely.

It'd be like buying a Ferrari and not being able to go over 50mph without the engine overheating, instead of blaming the City Council for building long straight roads, you'd realise that something was wrong with the car.


Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.08.31 02:05:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Forum Worrier

Inadequate cooling is the cause of your heat issue. CQ can only make your GPU run at high loads. If your GPU running at high loads is causing a heat issue then take a guess at what the problem is.



lol so youre telling me theres a cooling issue ONLY IN THIS GAME
hey, thanks for backing me up on that one. Glad we agree.

Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.08.31 02:25:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Alice Katsuko on 31/08/2011 02:26:21
On the bright side, in two years no-one will really care much about Incarna using excessive hardware resources due to improvements in hardware. So perhaps CCP is simply ahead of the curve.

On note slightly more relevant to the threat topic:

Basically, CCP isn't responsible for melted graphics cards because those cards would've melted anyway due to poor cooling or design, but the CQ does appear to be poorly optimized.

Denidil
Gallente
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.08.31 03:19:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Quote:
Hilmar says: Having the perspective of having done this for a decade, I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say.


There you go
Though its a shame all those ppl with fried GPUs cant seek recompense or something cause CCP KNOWS by now its their CODE not our computers


actually it is a little bit of both. CQ is putting a lot of load on them, and it's toasting ****ty cards.

Tikera Tissant
Posted - 2011.08.31 03:22:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Forum Worrier

Inadequate cooling is the cause of your heat issue. CQ can only make your GPU run at high loads. If your GPU running at high loads is causing a heat issue then take a guess at what the problem is.



lol so youre telling me theres a cooling issue ONLY IN THIS GAME
hey, thanks for backing me up on that one. Glad we agree.



Maybe because you don't really play any demanding games.

GPUs can easily handle 100% load as long as you have adequate cooling and good air-flow in your case, and ambiance temps are not way too high.

If your GPU is over-heating, its your own problem.
There are tons of games out there that can push GPUs to 100% easy. Metro 2011, crysis 2 in DX11, mafia 2, dirt 3 and many other games.

Download and run furmark for 4-5 minutes. That will give you a clue at what GPU should be able to handle without any problems.
If its over heating, you are doing something wrong.

If you always want to keep GPUs at low temps, get the very best GPU and run the game with lowest settings. Problem solved.

What Isdees
Posted - 2011.08.31 03:22:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Denidil
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Quote:
Hilmar says: Having the perspective of having done this for a decade, I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say.


There you go
Though its a shame all those ppl with fried GPUs cant seek recompense or something cause CCP KNOWS by now its their CODE not our computers


actually it is a little bit of both. CQ is putting a lot of load on them, and it's toasting ****ty cards.


Darwinian software code?

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.08.31 03:24:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Tikera Tissant
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Forum Worrier

Inadequate cooling is the cause of your heat issue. CQ can only make your GPU run at high loads. If your GPU running at high loads is causing a heat issue then take a guess at what the problem is.



lol so youre telling me theres a cooling issue ONLY IN THIS GAME
hey, thanks for backing me up on that one. Glad we agree.



Maybe because you don't really play any demanding games.




k, whats demanding?
Crysis, full graphics? No issues

What else?

Tikera Tissant
Posted - 2011.08.31 04:09:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Tikera Tissant
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Forum Worrier

Inadequate cooling is the cause of your heat issue. CQ can only make your GPU run at high loads. If your GPU running at high loads is causing a heat issue then take a guess at what the problem is.



lol so youre telling me theres a cooling issue ONLY IN THIS GAME
hey, thanks for backing me up on that one. Glad we agree.



Maybe because you don't really play any demanding games.




k, whats demanding?
Crysis, full graphics? No issues

What else?


I'm running 3 clients without any lag even when all 3 characters sit in CQ.
No issues, no over-heat, no problems, full details at 1080p.
You are doing something wrong if you claim its burning your GPU.

Putting your GPU in a case without decent cooling is like sticking your hand in a hot oven and claiming its hot in there, so it must be broken.

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.08.31 04:16:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Kengutsi Akira on 31/08/2011 04:16:59
Originally by: Tikera Tissant
blaming the user not the code again


funny given he's stated he plays other games without issues....

but in this one case there IS an issue. what youre experiencing is also moot unless you run another game where you do have heat issues yet you dont have them here. Fail troll

"youre doing something wrong" is such a funny argument in this thread

Simetraz
Posted - 2011.08.31 04:20:00 - [42]
 

I don't know about a optimization but I did bother to log on to the test server in the last week and see what was happening.

Frame rates in CQ went from 30 FPS to a solid 60 FPS (interval one) don't care about anything above that.
Run AMD and ATI.

So they did something, have no idea what though.

Hicksimus
Gallente
Mom's Friendly Spaceship Company
Posted - 2011.08.31 04:20:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Tikera Tissant
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Forum Worrier

Inadequate cooling is the cause of your heat issue. CQ can only make your GPU run at high loads. If your GPU running at high loads is causing a heat issue then take a guess at what the problem is.



lol so youre telling me theres a cooling issue ONLY IN THIS GAME
hey, thanks for backing me up on that one. Glad we agree.



Maybe because you don't really play any demanding games.




k, whats demanding?
Crysis, full graphics? No issues

What else?


I also get much higher fps in Crysis so your point is that something less stressful causes your card to make less heat which seems logical but with the tone of the thread you seem to be suggesting something ******ed with your results......

Almost nothing is as demanding as CQ for some reason, as I mentioned before Metro 2033 can push harder but it's also in a much larger space and IMO looks better and has more going on.

I've serviced nearly 2000 computers in the past few years and let me show you a trend with people and computer problems.....
I install the latest version of Adobe Acrobat Reader and sometimes forget to delete the desktop icon.....3 users have gone home and then called me to tell me I ruined their computer because when they click the icon all they get is a grey screen. Did I ruin their computer? Nope they just wanted to blame me for their own stupidity.
I've had many users say they downloaded a program and then everything went wrong so it must be a virus. (issues such as no power lights, constant checkdisk on startup, lines on their screen) These are all broken hardware issues but they remain skeptical of my proposed solutions and causes out of wanting to be right without having a clue.
I had one person tell me I ruined their computer because when they got it back they'd keep losing their video input, after 3 visits and a week and a half of arguing I got their monitor in the shop and found they had stuck a metallic sticker over top of the input button with their grand children and it was on their touch sensitive samsung monitor so it kept switching inputs when humidity was high! Afterward they wanted a refund because I didn't fix their issue earlier.

The bottom line is that there are a lot of factors affecting your hardware and when something goes wrong it's usually not related to the very last thing that changed. Got a 5 year old performance graphics card that just went pop? Yeah it's a 5 year old room heater it broke down it wasn't some poor code that ate it. It's the equivalent of a 30 year old Ferrari and if you are like almost every person out there the way you have treated that GPU is poorly. As far as maintenance and I'd bet you can guess what poorly maintained 30 year old Ferrari's do when you jam them around a race track for 3 hours...

Anybody had a brand new GPU die in CQ yet? Specifically from excessive heat and have pictures plus a copy of your RMA?

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.08.31 04:31:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 31/08/2011 04:32:52
Originally by: Hicksimus
It's the equivalent of a 30 year old Ferrari


k, for it to actually be equivalent, its a 30 year old ferrari that only on this one really hilly road that causes it to work harder it overheats

and note the part where I said "I do clean inside the case regularly" theres no dust in there. Funny ppl seem to gloss over stuff like that when its inconvenient to their cause

The fan on my card is working fine, all the fans in my case are working fine.
Running ONE GAME makes my computer heat up but youre all saying "well **** you have a ****ty computer you stupid noob"

yeah lol you keep thinking that. An if theres anything wrong with my tone its cause thats whats been being said for I dont know how many pages now. ppl would rather blame the user than the game.

Cuse Im the only person having this issue right? Thats why theres a sticky about it.

Jack Rips
Posted - 2011.08.31 05:10:00 - [45]
 

Would it not be a good idea to perhaps give us all some bloody feedback.
For the love of god ccp wake the frack up.

I for one am sick to death of logging on to a broken game and logging in to a forum thats kicking the game i love to death, and makeing ccp look like greedey bankers who take take and take from there loyal players.

You are letting us down, and your letting eve down.

This has been more than a bad year for eve so far, pull up your socks and start to do somthing about it!. Reply to posts, don't let the topics get full of ****e like this before you bother to give us a reply. for want of a better word ccp "frustrated!" you fracking bet i am.

Tikera Tissant
Posted - 2011.08.31 05:11:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Tikera Tissant on 31/08/2011 05:18:27
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 31/08/2011 04:32:52
Originally by: Hicksimus
It's the equivalent of a 30 year old Ferrari


k, for it to actually be equivalent, its a 30 year old ferrari that only on this one really hilly road that causes it to work harder it overheats

and note the part where I said "I do clean inside the case regularly" theres no dust in there. Funny ppl seem to gloss over stuff like that when its inconvenient to their cause

The fan on my card is working fine, all the fans in my case are working fine.
Running ONE GAME makes my computer heat up but youre all saying "well **** you have a ****ty computer you stupid noob"

yeah lol you keep thinking that. An if theres anything wrong with my tone its cause thats whats been being said for I dont know how many pages now. ppl would rather blame the user than the game.

Cuse Im the only person having this issue right? Thats why theres a sticky about it.


Clean case and working fans doesn't mean anything.
Low CFM fans, hot ambiance temps, cables sticking out everywhere inside, HDDs blocking the air and so on, is what causing high temps.

Also there is nothing wrong with setting the fan to 100%. Its what its ment to do.
GPUs are built to run at close to max temps with fan at 100% for a long time as long as there is good air flow and the ambiance temps are decent.

Also you are still stuck in the notion that if your fan runs at 100% it means the GPU is overheating.
Its not.
If it overheats, it shut down. GPUs can run up and sometimes over 100c.
Basic fan profiles are ment to keep the fan low until around 70-80c, and then it will boost the fan to 80% or up to 100% to keep it below the max temps.
Its fine. You are just panicing.

Tikera Tissant
Posted - 2011.08.31 05:18:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Ager Agemo
didn't actually blizzard burned a lot of graphic cards due to faulty programming on sc2?


About that, not really.
Blizzard made GPUs run at 2000fps at the loading screen because they kept refreshing it. Its a 2D image.
It was fixed by a patch from GPU companies.

It never burned graphics cards. That notion was put in as headlines, and not as an actual fact.
Its like a headline saying "the sun can melts planets!" and than go on telling about how hot it was yesterday.Rolling Eyes

Vawd
Caldari
Tax Evasion Ltd
Posted - 2011.08.31 13:14:00 - [48]
 

My cards just got nuked, not sure if it was this game that did it. I had plenty of airflow into and out of the case. Using an Antec 1200

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129043

3 Front 120mm intake fans
2 Rear 120mm exhaust fans
1 Top 200mm exhaust fan
and a side intake fan, prob 150mm.

Was using a set of factory overclocked BFG 260GTX, huge mothereffin cards that impede the **** out of airflow. It's just as well though that they got nuked, my new GTX550 ti from ASUS is 3/4ths the size, requires half the power and runs a lot cooler, all while providing better graphics.



Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.08.31 14:10:00 - [49]
 

CQ is quite funny, I can play World of Tanks for hours and the fans are idle in the computer, as soon as I enter CQ the GPU fans spin up a lot.

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2011.08.31 14:18:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Mr Kidd on 31/08/2011 14:20:35
...bad programming...

The CQ problem however is simply that it tries to achieve a higher framerate than most hardware can achieve, so runs the hardware at 100%. This should be fine for all hardware if you have sufficient cooling.

That your GPU is running at 100%.
Thats all.





Unfortunately, the quality of the CQ is not exactly impressive. There are games out there with much more impressive environments that require much less GPU utilization. So, we can chalk this up to poor programming.

Why CCP doesn't make optimizing their rendering engine a priority is beyond me. There is absolutely no reason aesthetically that the CQ in it's current state should run hardware at 100% utilization. None. The facts that it does and there is nothing more enticing than a couch provides little incentive for people to use it.


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