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Valentina Valentia
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.08.29 23:27:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Valentina Valentia on 29/08/2011 23:31:39
Proposal:
Set PLEX as a set price for buy and sell in ISK (no tax and no duty on the transaction) - suggestion of 150M per.

Olleybear
Minmatar
I R' Carebear
Posted - 2011.08.29 23:29:00 - [2]
 

0/10

Umad Bro Questionmark
Posted - 2011.08.29 23:30:00 - [3]
 

Ur a moron. Google inflation.

What is up with everyone coming up with the most ******ed ideas over night and spamming the forum with them?! Get a hobby for ****'s sake..

Valentina Valentia
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.08.29 23:33:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Umad Bro Questionmark
Ur a moron. Google inflation.

What is up with everyone coming up with the most ******ed ideas over night and spamming the forum with them?! Get a hobby for ****'s sake..



You can't inflate a price fixed item - any more than you could change the price of the ETC online... who is the moron?

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.29 23:33:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: stoicfaux on 29/08/2011 23:35:17

Keeping the price of an item artificially low normally results in a shortage of that item. There won't be any PLEX for people to buy.

If the isk value of a GTC is artificially low, then people will be more likely to turn to "illegal" RMT for their isk instead of using legitimate GTC cards.

Your proposal would have the opposite effects of what you intended.


edit: Oh no you don't. Here's the OP's original post:

Quote:
Proposal:
Set PLEX as a set price for buy and sell in ISK (no tax and no duty on the transaction) - suggestion of 150M per.

Reason:
1. ETC/Time would still stay the same, in RM and convert into 2x PLEX, but the PLEX itself would be set at a price making it a game time item only and not a speculator item.

2. New Players can usually make 150M a month - this would enable more people to stay with the game - increasing the number of accounts and making EVE a increasing population game (again) - making it a positive business for CCP.

3. CCP would still get the same amount of income as the price and number of ETC would be unchanged.

4. PLEX to AUR rates in isk would make the "insane prices of NeX" half if the price was fixed at 150 from current (aprox).

5. This would keep huge alliance and speculator wallets from buying PLEX and then hoarding and dumping a Game time item as a market speculation item - effectively they can control the access of new and existing players to game time for labor.

Consider this and the affect before posting - since I know that most will post NO out of reaction, but think about it - shouldn't a Time Code be fixed in game as it is out of game in price - what if the ETC code sellers could simply mark up ETC and they decided to buy them up from anyone selling at less... and put the ETC at 40 or 50 or 100 dollars... it is possible, while not probable that the free market system could impose these issues - making less access and therefore higher prices...


Pesky LaRue
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.08.29 23:38:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Valentina Valentia
Edited by: Valentina Valentia on 29/08/2011 23:31:39
Proposal:
Set PLEX as a set price for buy and sell in ISK (no tax and no duty on the transaction) - suggestion of 150M per.
just another of your "winning" ideas.

I'm so glad you don't post them in the correct forum or we wouldn't fully realise your lack of understand of how the game works.

Umad Bro Questionmark
Posted - 2011.08.29 23:41:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Umad Bro Questionmark on 29/08/2011 23:41:50
Originally by: Valentina Valentia
Originally by: Umad Bro Questionmark
Ur a moron. Google inflation.

What is up with everyone coming up with the most ******ed ideas over night and spamming the forum with them?! Get a hobby for ****'s sake..



You can't inflate a price fixed item - any more than you could change the price of the ETC online... who is the moron?



It's not the PLEX that suffers from inflation (the economic phenomenon), soft one.

Valentina Valentia
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.08.29 23:44:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: stoicfaux
Edited by: stoicfaux on 29/08/2011 23:34:30
Keeping the price of an item artificially low normally results in a shortage of that item. There won't be any PLEX for people to buy.

If the isk value of a GTC is artificially low, then people will be more likely to turn to "illegal" RMT for their isk instead of using legitimate GTC cards.

Your proposal would have the opposite effects of what you intended.

edit: Oh no you don't. Here's the OP's original post:

Quote:
Proposal:
Set PLEX as a set price for buy and sell in ISK (no tax and no duty on the transaction) - suggestion of 150M per.

Reason:
1. ETC/Time would still stay the same, in RM and convert into 2x PLEX, but the PLEX itself would be set at a price making it a game time item only and not a speculator item.

2. New Players can usually make 150M a month - this would enable more people to stay with the game - increasing the number of accounts and making EVE a increasing population game (again) - making it a positive business for CCP.

3. CCP would still get the same amount of income as the price and number of ETC would be unchanged.

4. PLEX to AUR rates in isk would make the "insane prices of NeX" half if the price was fixed at 150 from current (aprox).

5. This would keep huge alliance and speculator wallets from buying PLEX and then hoarding and dumping a Game time item as a market speculation item - effectively they can control the access of new and existing players to game time for labor.

Consider this and the affect before posting - since I know that most will post NO out of reaction, but think about it - shouldn't a Time Code be fixed in game as it is out of game in price - what if the ETC code sellers could simply mark up ETC and they decided to buy them up from anyone selling at less... and put the ETC at 40 or 50 or 100 dollars... it is possible, while not probable that the free market system could impose these issues - making less access and therefore higher prices...




RMT is bannable - so that will always be a high-risk option, but it is like saying people if they can't get something will steal it - they can steal it regardless - the cost is being caught.

PLEX at 150M would be worth 150 = 15.00 ish USD x2 from a ETC/GTC which is where come from, so there would be no lacking since it is a non-production item... they are simply made from computer/financial code.

There are basically unlimited numbers of them - any item that has no limit is "free" as you cannot market a unlimted access item - like "air"

Since we are basically doing "Bottled-Air" for a inflated price because out access to that air is by means of a duct = unlimited ETC/GTC = unlimted potential PLEX for sale from RL retailers = controlled by RM price = number in existence... the fact that they are the same for RM and give the same time (30D) = no change in the real reason for them.

The side use - RM for ISK is not the purpose anyway - as that IS Gold for Advantage = Financial, it should be controled and limited to a resonable amount.

ISK per PLEX at a fixed rate would make the used as Time and not for ISK accumulation, and this would then mean that labor = time, not money = isk.

CCP could always inject PLEX into the game if there was a shortage, but the situation would not occur as people buy PLEX for game time, and if not for that then they are mis-using it for gain in ISK w/o labor ingame which is "gold for ISK"

I see no downside to ISK price fixing at 100 or 150M and making the PLEX a game time only item again or if you want to spend money on ISK you can but your labor ingame would make more ISK so people wouldn't abuse them for this purpose, and RMT would lead to cheaters being banned...

looks like a total upside to me...

Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.29 23:46:00 - [9]
 

HAha i love when people fail to ninjadit and get caught doing it.

But yeah, PLEX is bordering 400.000.000,00.

Damn you NEX store.

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.30 00:19:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: stoicfaux on 30/08/2011 00:19:32
Originally by: Valentina Valentia

PLEX at 150M would be worth 150 = 15.00 ish USD x2 from a ETC/GTC which is where come from, so there would be no lacking since it is a non-production item... they are simply made from computer/financial code.

There are basically unlimited numbers of them - any item that has no limit is "free" as you cannot market a unlimted access item - like "air"


Listen, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt because every once in a while we all say something terribly stupid in public. I also appreciate watching a good (aka subtle) troll work.

But, come on! Your reply is so bad it makes you look like you have your head up your arse while simultaneously putting your foot in your mouth. While such an act would make a Yoga Master jealous, it's just pathetic whether you're being serious or whether you're trolling.

Did you really just state that there is an unlimited amount of real world money willing to buy GTC/ETC in pairs of 15 USD? Unlimited money chasing GTCs in a niche MMO to the point that GTCs are effectively free? Seriously?

Quote:

CCP could always inject PLEX into the game if there was a shortage, but the situation would not occur as people buy PLEX for game time, and if not for that then they are mis-using it for gain in ISK w/o labor ingame which is "gold for ISK"


Really? If PLEX is worth 15 USD, then that's 15 USD that doesn't go to CCP. Or do you actually have the gall to imply that CCP is going to pay its Real Life obligations, such as staff, hosting, bandwidth, taxes, etc., using ISK aka in-game labor?


Quote:
looks like a total upside to me...



Reality is relative. Pull your head out of your bum and look around to see what's changed in the meantime.


SilentSkills
Gallente
Tax Evaders Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.30 00:46:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: SilentSkills on 30/08/2011 00:46:06
Originally by: Valentina Valentia
Edited by: Valentina Valentia on 29/08/2011 23:31:39
Proposal:
Set PLEX as a set price for buy and sell in ISK (no tax and no duty on the transaction) - suggestion of 150M per.


Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

0/10

mechtech
SRS Industries
SRS.
Posted - 2011.08.30 01:03:00 - [12]
 

From CCPs standpoint it doesn't make sense.

Option 1 (doesn't work): CCP keeps the market player driven. People buy PLEX for $15 and sell it on the market, but the price is locked at 150m.
--Result: less people buy PLEX (because it gives you less isk), there is a massive shortage of PLEX on the market and people resell them for more..... wait a second, this doesn't work at all. next.

Option 2: CCP injects PLEX into the game and sells them for 150m, like NPC orders
--result: CCP loses MASSIVE amounts of income and possible goes bankrupt. The beauty of the PLEX system is that PLEX users are essentially still paying $15 a month, it's just shifted off to another player. Actually the sub base actually expands, because many people are only comfortable having alt accounts if they can fund them w/ PLEX. If CCP injects the PLEX for 150m via an NPC order. Instead of a player paying a $15 sub, they get an injected PLEX that gives CCP no income.

Also, the 150m PLEX point is obviously 2-3x under what the market says a PLEX is worth, so you'll end up with 70% of the player base using PLEX. Eve would die, and quickly, because CCP's income would absolutely evaporate.

TLDR; terrible idea, and not to mention totally against the player-driven market ideal that eve is founded on.

Anya Ohaya
Posted - 2011.08.30 02:14:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Valentina Valentia

Set PLEX as a set price for buy and sell in ISK (no tax and no duty on the transaction) - suggestion of 150M per.


Lol, I for one would love to profit from the resulting black market in Plex :-)

The Pteradactyl
Posted - 2011.08.30 04:12:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Valentina Valentia
You can't inflate a price fixed item - any more than you could change the price of the ETC online... who is the moron?


Exactly, the value of ISK will drop, duh. GOOGLE INFLATION.

Valentina Valentia
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.08.30 04:22:00 - [15]
 

My point that I was trying to get across was this:

PLEX = X of ISK of in-game labor = 30D of play time - fixed amount. It then is reverted to a time-card and not an ISK-faucet.

This would then make PLEX = ISK (from no labor) not possible as a means of major ISK accumulation. Since in a market game ISK = advantage, and ISK from no labor/time = unfair advantage, it should be pegged to the time/labor rate of the ISK production in game from in game activities and not to real money transactions, this then makes it a useful item for players and not a magic ISK maker if you wish to put in the cash... since that is about the amount of ISK one can generate from in game HS in a month of casual play and it would be less (much less) that someone could generate from other ingame high-risk activities.

IF null is to be populated, and CCP motivation = this is where the ISK is if you want it you must go there, then they have to reduce the ISK from PLEX which works in complete opposite to motivation of in game time/labor risk motivation, since someone can simply buy massive amounts of ISK, and if they are attached to a wallet of a major EVE player market entity, they can even manipulate the market price and completely undo all the work CCP will do to motivate null habitation by simply dumping or buying up PLEX on mass and re-distrobution of such as they would see fit.

If one can use a PLEX for time but not ISK then one HAS to find ISK in game, or bannable for life RMT (which is being dealt with), and bots (which are also being delt with)... this then makes players have to do the time to get the ISK, there is no way to do a work-around on it.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.30 04:29:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Valentina Valentia
It then is reverted to a time-card and not an ISK-faucet.
“Reverted”? How can it revert from something it isn't to something it already is?

PLEX are not ISK faucets.
PLEX are time-unlimited call options for either AUR or game time.

Also, I can't quite find any reasoning why this option can't have its value set by the market…?

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.08.30 04:35:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Valentina Valentia
It then is reverted to a time-card and not an ISK-faucet.
“Reverted”? How can it revert from something it isn't to something it already is?

PLEX are not ISK faucets.
PLEX are time-unlimited call options for either AUR or game time.

Also, I can't quite find any reasoning why this option can't have its value set by the market…?


agree 100%

OP should learn where the isk comes from (another player).

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.30 04:39:00 - [18]
 

Val, I don't think you understand how an economy works.

Valentina Valentia
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.08.30 04:56:00 - [19]
 

Ok, I will bite here... tell me how this works then...

1. I am in HS, I decide to drop 1000.00 on ETC - and I convert them to PLEX, then I put them on the market at a high point of say 420M and cash in - then I wait until it is down to 320M and I buy half back and do the same again - and again - and again - with that half, and constantly dump the ISK into the other half of my original sell - boosting that ISK amount, I do this unit I have the original amount of ISK I had at step one, and also half the number of PLEX I got... how is this NOT making it an ISK faucet?, I did nothing but buy and sell a virtual item at high and lows... also since I had a great deal of ISK to work with there was nothing preventing me buying up lesser sells and setting the price if that presented itself.

I have to do nothing to make ISK, and I can keep doing this over and over again without any in game activity... nada... so it totally overrides any incentive for making ISK ingame with time/labor as I can simply speculate and manipulate the single market item I can buy and seed into the game as often as I want to whip out the credit card...

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.30 05:08:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Valentina Valentia
how is this NOT making it an ISK faucet?

An isk faucet injects isk into the game. When you sell a PLEX, no ISK is generated or injected into the game. It's just moved from one place to another.

The Khan Academy has lots of great videos on finance. You should check them out.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.30 05:23:00 - [21]
 

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Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.30 05:26:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Valentina Valentia
I put [PLEX] on the market at a high point of say 420M and cash in - then I wait until it is down to 320M and I buy half back and do the same again - and again - and again - with that half, and constantly dump the ISK into the other half of my original sell - boosting that ISK amount, I do this unit I have the original amount of ISK I had at step one, and also half the number of PLEX I got... how is this NOT making it an ISK faucet?
Apart from what was explained above — this is not an ISK faucet since no ISK is being created (in fact, it's an ISK sink since taxes constantly siphon away ISK from the economy) — what you're doing here is simply trading. It has nothing to do with PLEX. Replace [PLEX] with [Tritanium] and adjust the prices accordingly. Same thing happens. Replace [PLEX] with [Abaddons] and adjust the price… same things happen. Does this mean we need to price-fix trit and battleships as well?

And you're not doing it without any in-game activity. You're trading, in-game. It's one of the more vicious activities you can engage in in EVE.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.08.30 05:41:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 30/08/2011 05:42:16
Originally by: Umad Bro Questionmark
Ur a moron. Google inflation.

What is up with everyone coming up with the most ******ed ideas over night and spamming the forum with them?! Get a hobby for ****'s sake..



umad bro?

Originally by: stoicfaux
Edited by: stoicfaux on 29/08/2011 23:35:17

Keeping the price of an item artificially low normally results in a shortage of that item. There won't be any PLEX for people to buy.



I wasnt aware there was a fixed number of them

Mr Jebidea
Posted - 2011.08.30 06:08:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Valentina Valentia
Originally by: Umad Bro Questionmark
Ur a moron. Google inflation.

What is up with everyone coming up with the most ******ed ideas over night and spamming the forum with them?! Get a hobby for ****'s sake..



You can't inflate a price fixed item - any more than you could change the price of the ETC online... who is the moron?


Yeah but inflation is not just the raising of prices in goods. That is the effect, the cause of inflation is the increase in the supply of money, meaning that each unit of money must buy less. Keynesians believe that BS logic, but I don't. Just because the price is fixed, it will just make it much easier to buy them. As the price of other goods rises with the inevitable rise of the money supply, it will become easier and easier to buy PLEX, effectively making them worthless. Price fixing doesn't work, and will never work, in a virtual or real world. Go back to your whole and read up on some economics. I suggest Hayek and Mises.

Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
Posted - 2011.08.30 06:09:00 - [25]
 

Lol, does anybody believes PLEX prices aren't fixed already?

S0ylent Green
Posted - 2011.08.30 06:32:00 - [26]
 

150? I think 450 would be a bit more reasonable

Tian Garsk
Posted - 2011.08.30 06:37:00 - [27]
 

What i got out of the OP was "waaah i can't afford a PLEX, waaah CCP please force them to sell them to me for less".

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.08.30 06:37:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Estephania
Lol, does anybody believes PLEX prices aren't fixed already?


Well the real question is does it fluctuate? Cause if not you might have a case

Tian Garsk
Posted - 2011.08.30 06:47:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: S0ylent Green
150? I think 450 would be a bit more reasonable


Of course the price is fixed to a certain degree.

It's fixed by the player economy, closely related to the amount of ISK people will comfortably spedn on such an item. If we were to get a suddne increase in how much ISK we could earn per hour the price of PLEX would shoot up accordingly.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.08.30 07:02:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Tian Garsk
Originally by: S0ylent Green
150? I think 450 would be a bit more reasonable


Of course the price is fixed to a certain degree.

It's fixed by the player economy, closely related to the amount of ISK people will comfortably spedn on such an item. If we were to get a suddne increase in how much ISK we could earn per hour the price of PLEX would shoot up accordingly.


Did that happen when rigs were introduced? Cause thats the only time Ive ever bought GTCs with in game money lol


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