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Pytria Le'Danness
Posted - 2011.08.28 07:36:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Pytria Le''Danness on 28/08/2011 07:36:17
Originally by: Vin Hellsing
Trust me, when DUST comes out and it starts gaining traction from all the Planetside nutjobs, it's going to really add to or change some of the dynamics of EVE Online.


It may be, but I don't see much in DUST that will guarantee long-term commitment. Granted, there's not much solid facts out in the open, but so far the only thing I know:

  • It's going to be a console-only first person shooter. I don't like FPS much so I cannot judge, but many people say consoles suck for FPS. But let's say it's good.

  • In some nebulous way it's going to be integrated into EVE, possibly influencing sovereignity. If they make DUST mandatory for sov this might push the game up a lot as the alliances need to go out and buy consoles to keep their empires, but it might also drive out people in droves.

  • There also were talks about EVE actions being required to allow DUST battles, like flying a drop ship to the destination. This would be great for EVE ("No one gets through our camps!") but might turn out frustrating for the DUSTers ("You ship out. You die in space. Please reload.").

  • But what concerns me most is the short description from the Fearless newsletter about MTs fueling DUST. It reads as if you need to buy degradable weapons/ammo with Owrum in order to be competetive. There aparently will be a way to give ISK over to DUST, but I wonder if the average console player is willing to put up with constantly paying for gear other FPS games give him for free. The game has to be pretty adddictive to faciliate that, and I haven't seen much that would attract me long term. Still too early to judge, but I DO have my doubts. And BTW a similar model is supposed to pay for WoD - I wonder what the game is supposed to offer to attract people if the main thing you do is pay and pay and pay.


Perramas
Caldari
Pan Caldarian Ventures
Posted - 2011.08.28 13:00:00 - [62]
 

Vin Hellsing ask CCP if they have any fall back plans if Dust and WoD are both commercial failures. Or will it be the end of CCP and EVE if that happens?

Ethan Bejorn
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.08.28 15:49:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Denidil
Originally by: Chrono Seeker

Actual Proof that we're not getting the big expansions we want like Apocrapha and why expansions of late feel small and incomplete.


i've already responded to this same bull**** twice, why don't you just read above so i don't have to type it again.

Chicken Little.


We don't take kindly to CCP alts around here.

Pestilent Industries
Posted - 2011.08.28 15:51:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Vin Hellsing
Edited by: Vin Hellsing on 28/08/2011 02:30:05
Originally by: Demon Azrakel
Edited by: Demon Azrakel on 28/08/2011 02:22:53
Originally by: Vin Hellsing
Questions for Soundwave - PAX Day 2
-----------------------------------
Katrina Oniseki > The original Incarna release was groundbreaking in its step forward, but very limited in scope. Can we expect more comprehensive and expansive *expansions* in the future? And I mean stuff like Apocrypha, where it takes us about a month or two to experience all of the content.

Response> Apocrypha was a large expansion that took the resources of a large percentage of the company, and it turned out to be a difficult thing to handle - we don't expect to be doing anything on that scale again.


Vin Hellsing> Are you aiming for a certain level of standard for each expansion?

Response> Not necessarily. The resources we have available are major deciding factors on how much we can put into each expansion.



****ing awesome, CCP now admits that they are releasing piece of **** expansions with no standards of :delivering: content or :excellence: for their flagship product that makes them all of the cash.

Most successful expansion that brought in the most players, think you can do it again?

CCP: **** that, too hard... MT store instead


Actually, regarding standards for expansions, they do want to deliver the best possible they can produce. However, by my personal estimate, around one-thirds (at a minimum) of their in-house resources are heavily dedicated towards Dust 514's implementation.

When Apocrypha was done, this was when they were in early predevelopment with White Wolf over WoD, and Dust 514 was still in something of a sketchy phase. The result was that they had plenty of idle hands to help out. So they had a lot of manpower on board to put out Apocrypha as one of the most epic expansions I've seen to date.

If you divide that kind of productive power three ways, you can see why there are smaller, less impactful expansions in the last year or so.

As I personally see it, Dust 514 is another EVE expansion that dwarfs even Apocrypha - so much that it is capable of being billed as its own game that has a high degree of integration with the EVE Online architecture.



CCP has not done anything what-so-ever that is special yet. They say they "plan" on making Dust integrate with Eve, but we all know CCP has "planned" to do many great things which almost always have failed, or been left half finished along the wayside.

Your faith is something most of us no longer have in CCP. The CCP of 2006 might have pulled this off, but this is now 5 years later, and the incompetent slobs who work and run CCP are incapable of wiping their own arses.

Vin Hellsing
Posted - 2011.08.28 15:54:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: Vin Hellsing on 28/08/2011 15:55:23
Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness
Edited by: Pytria Le''Danness on 28/08/2011 07:36:17
Originally by: Vin Hellsing
Trust me, when DUST comes out and it starts gaining traction from all the Planetside nutjobs, it's going to really add to or change some of the dynamics of EVE Online.


It may be, but I don't see much in DUST that will guarantee long-term commitment. Granted, there's not much solid facts out in the open, but so far the only thing I know:

  • It's going to be a console-only first person shooter. I don't like FPS much so I cannot judge, but many people say consoles suck for FPS. But let's say it's good.

  • In some nebulous way it's going to be integrated into EVE, possibly influencing sovereignity. If they make DUST mandatory for sov this might push the game up a lot as the alliances need to go out and buy consoles to keep their empires, but it might also drive out people in droves.

  • There also were talks about EVE actions being required to allow DUST battles, like flying a drop ship to the destination. This would be great for EVE ("No one gets through our camps!") but might turn out frustrating for the DUSTers ("You ship out. You die in space. Please reload.").

  • But what concerns me most is the short description from the Fearless newsletter about MTs fueling DUST. It reads as if you need to buy degradable weapons/ammo with Owrum in order to be competetive. There aparently will be a way to give ISK over to DUST, but I wonder if the average console player is willing to put up with constantly paying for gear other FPS games give him for free. The game has to be pretty adddictive to faciliate that, and I haven't seen much that would attract me long term. Still too early to judge, but I DO have my doubts. And BTW a similar model is supposed to pay for WoD - I wonder what the game is supposed to offer to attract people if the main thing you do is pay and pay and pay.




They aren't ready to release all of that information yet. I'm expecting that we'll be seeing more of DUST 514 in 2012 - enough to be able to form a proper judgment call on whether or not it would be a boon or a bane to EVE's future.

Presently, I think DUST 514 will favor smaller alliances with a well-trained DUST merc corp. Basically, smaller alliances control smaller tracts of space, right? Larger alliances typically control entire regions. It will increase the level of challenge for those mega-alliances to retain control of those sectors. You'd need a LOT more manpower to keep the groundside aspect of a sovereignty battle under lock and key.

Edit: regarding microtransactions for Dust 514, I think that makes a lot of sense when you need a self-sustaining business model for the console. I share your concerns about the system, though.

Darth Vapour
Posted - 2011.08.28 15:58:00 - [66]
 

Quote:
Response> Apocrypha was a large expansion that took the resources of a large percentage of the company, and it turned out to be a difficult thing to handle - we don't expect to be doing anything on that scale again.


But getting real-time interaction between PC-based EVE and PS3-based DUST 514 is no big deal.

Trainwreck McGee
Posted - 2011.08.28 15:58:00 - [67]
 

"Apocrypha was a large expansion that took the resources of a large percentage of the company, and it turned out to be a difficult thing to handle - we don't expect to be doing anything on that scale again."


"The resources we have available are major deciding factors on how much we can put into each expansion.

How could a company so awesome turn so **** this quickly

Dorian Wylde
Posted - 2011.08.28 16:00:00 - [68]
 

So much whiny rage in this thread. Can all of you fools do the rest of us a favor and just leave, instead of claiming you are.

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.28 16:04:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Magnus Orin on 28/08/2011 16:05:55
Wow. Pretty disappointing answers if you ask me.

Also:

Quote:

Response> Apocrypha was a large expansion that took the resources of a large percentage of the company, and it turned out to be a difficult thing to handle - we don't expect to be doing anything on that scale again.



Wow, a large percent of a game company actually working on the bloody game. Guess that's a thing of the past eh CCP?

Vin Hellsing
Posted - 2011.08.28 16:04:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: Vin Hellsing on 28/08/2011 16:05:15
Originally by: Dorian Wylde
So much whiny rage in this thread. Can all of you fools do the rest of us a favor and just leave, instead of claiming you are.


Yes, please. I do you all a huge favor by getting one of the most candid Q&A's with a major CCP dev in recent memory and some of you get Selective Reading Syndrome.

Seriously? This doesn't mean CCP has moved the goalposts closer - if anything, they've moved them further down the field.


Originally by: Magnus Orin
Wow. Pretty disappointing answers if you ask me.


Not all of them are disappointing. Today, we're doing another Q&A with more questions. Make sure you sign up for the mailing list in-game to get an advance copy when it's completed. :)

Oberine Noriepa
Posted - 2011.08.28 16:04:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Oberine Noriepa on 28/08/2011 16:05:06
You didn't ask about the new nebulae. :(

Thanks for posting your interview though! :)

Vin Hellsing
Posted - 2011.08.28 16:06:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Oberine Noriepa
Edited by: Oberine Noriepa on 28/08/2011 16:05:06
You didn't ask about the new nebulae. :(

Thanks for posting your interview though! :)


New nebulae? Can you clarify that, please? I'm curious, and think this might be worth asking CCP Soundwave if you can phrase the question in four sentences or less. I'll be checking the forums again around noon before today's Q&A starts.

Vin Hellsing
Posted - 2011.08.28 16:11:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: Vin Hellsing on 28/08/2011 16:22:03
Edited by: Vin Hellsing on 28/08/2011 16:11:30
Originally by: Magnus Orin
Edited by: Magnus Orin on 28/08/2011 16:05:55
Wow. Pretty disappointing answers if you ask me.

Also:

Quote:

Response> Apocrypha was a large expansion that took the resources of a large percentage of the company, and it turned out to be a difficult thing to handle - we don't expect to be doing anything on that scale again.



Wow, a large percent of a game company actually working on the bloody game. Guess that's a thing of the past eh CCP?


We discussed this earlier in the thread. Seriously, don't post if you're not going to read the thread. I provided useful clarifications that are worth looking at.

Ethan Bejorn
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.08.28 16:27:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Vin Hellsing
Edited by: Vin Hellsing on 28/08/2011 16:22:03
Edited by: Vin Hellsing on 28/08/2011 16:11:30
Originally by: Magnus Orin
Edited by: Magnus Orin on 28/08/2011 16:05:55
Wow. Pretty disappointing answers if you ask me.

Also:

Quote:

Response> Apocrypha was a large expansion that took the resources of a large percentage of the company, and it turned out to be a difficult thing to handle - we don't expect to be doing anything on that scale again.



Wow, a large percent of a game company actually working on the bloody game. Guess that's a thing of the past eh CCP?


We discussed this earlier in the thread. Seriously, don't post if you're not going to read the thread. I provided useful clarifications that are worth looking at.


I don't think you can blame people for only caring about the important parts of this thread. That is, CCP is ****.

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.28 16:43:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Magnus Orin on 28/08/2011 16:43:18
Originally by: Vin Hellsing
Edited by: Vin Hellsing on 28/08/2011 16:22:03
Edited by: Vin Hellsing on 28/08/2011 16:11:30
Originally by: Magnus Orin
Edited by: Magnus Orin on 28/08/2011 16:05:55
Wow. Pretty disappointing answers if you ask me.

Also:

Quote:

Response> Apocrypha was a large expansion that took the resources of a large percentage of the company, and it turned out to be a difficult thing to handle - we don't expect to be doing anything on that scale again.



Wow, a large percent of a game company actually working on the bloody game. Guess that's a thing of the past eh CCP?


We discussed this earlier in the thread. Seriously, don't post if you're not going to read the thread. I provided useful clarifications that are worth looking at.


Well I read the response, and I posted what I thought of it.

Thanks for posting this Q&A, but I frankly could not care any less about any previous discussion or clarifications. That answer is quite pathetic and a major disappointment to any Eve player in my opinion.

Vin Hellsing
Posted - 2011.08.28 16:43:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Vin Hellsing on 28/08/2011 16:46:46
Originally by: Ethan Bejorn
Originally by: Vin Hellsing
Edited by: Vin Hellsing on 28/08/2011 16:22:03
Edited by: Vin Hellsing on 28/08/2011 16:11:30
Originally by: Magnus Orin
Edited by: Magnus Orin on 28/08/2011 16:05:55
Wow. Pretty disappointing answers if you ask me.

Also:

Quote:

Response> Apocrypha was a large expansion that took the resources of a large percentage of the company, and it turned out to be a difficult thing to handle - we don't expect to be doing anything on that scale again.



Wow, a large percent of a game company actually working on the bloody game. Guess that's a thing of the past eh CCP?


We discussed this earlier in the thread. Seriously, don't post if you're not going to read the thread. I provided useful clarifications that are worth looking at.


I don't think you can blame people for only caring about the important parts of this thread. That is, CCP is ****.


That's your opinion. From my interactions with CCP Soundwave, he seems very genuine in addressing the problems EVE is having with the space portion of the game.

Quote:
Well I read the response, and I posted what I thought of it.

Thanks for posting this Q&A, but I frankly could not care any less about any previous discussion or clarifications. That answer is quite pathetic and a major disappointment to any Eve player in my opinion.


Do keep in mind that any Q&A is not going to give you a complete picture of what's going to happen, only a direction. The answers you have a problem with have been something players have suspected for some time, but has been essentially confirmed: The fact that CCP does not have the ability, nor do they wish to, commit their entire workforce to developing one expansion - not with the current goals they have established before themselves.

However, the suggestion that CCP could do another mega-expansion like Apocrypha once they complete Dust 514, is not off the table. It just isn't likely because of the immense amount of logistics involved.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.28 16:45:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 28/08/2011 16:48:25
Originally by: Denidil
what happens to DUST514 when Eve Online is no longer there?

DUST514 is not longer there. they're integrated frakking games.
Wrong. They may be integrated, but they're also being designed to work separate from each other for that exact reason.
Originally by: Denidil
i know! isn't it just an OUTRAGE they don't plan on doubling the size of available space again
First of all, Apocrypha did none of the sort. Second of all, “more systems” was an insignificant detail about what Apoc added, so your sarcasm is completely miss-applied. It is indeed sad to see that they're not going to apply the same kind of resources and add the same amount of content in one go ever again.
Quote:
i've already responded to this same bull**** twice, why don't you just read above so i don't have to type it again.
Because your answers were utterly ignorant.
Originally by: Vin Hellsing
We discussed this earlier in the thread. Seriously, don't post if you're not going to read the thread. I provided useful clarifications that are worth looking at.
Unfortunately, people can post whatever they like in response to whichever post they like. You are not in a position to dictate when the discussion they're having is over.

Albetta
Gallente
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.08.28 16:50:00 - [78]
 

Vin, ask him when the hell he is going to fix the mac jukebox issue

Vin Hellsing
Posted - 2011.08.28 16:52:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Albetta
Vin, ask him when the hell he is going to fix the mac jukebox issue


Not a major issue, so it'll be towards the end of the list, but I do expect we'll be able to get through all of the questions. :)

Vin Hellsing
Posted - 2011.08.28 16:58:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Tippia

Originally by: Vin Hellsing
We discussed this earlier in the thread. Seriously, don't post if you're not going to read the thread. I provided useful clarifications that are worth looking at.
Unfortunately, people can post whatever they like in response to whichever post they like. You are not in a position to dictate when the discussion they're having is over.


True, but I do expect some degree of civility and thoughtfulness in people's responses - I don't take kindly to people who seem to singlemindedly assault a development team for their missteps. Remember, the word of the day is "constructive".

Vin Hellsing
Posted - 2011.08.28 17:05:00 - [81]
 

Question submissions are now closed for the 2nd Q&A today. The doors of PAX Prime have now opened and I'm packing up my gear to head into the Exhibition Hall to apprise Soundwave of the situation with the list of questions and the current community response.

Yar!

Again, don't forget to join the EVE Online mailing list by clicking on "Add Mailing List" in your eve mailbox window, and typing "PAX Prime 2011" in the dialog box that pops up. You will receive a welcome letter that includes the first Q&A.

Shepard Book
Posted - 2011.08.28 18:08:00 - [82]
 

Vin,

I keep trying to catch someone that can speak to the marketing dept on behalf all the players hoping for a ps3 with a dust514 bundle. There have been a few different threads asking about it. Myself and others have been holding back buying a ps3 for that reason. Can you ask SW if he would do that?

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.08.29 22:10:00 - [83]
 

Hey Vin, when will you post the second Q&A responses?

Vin Hellsing
Posted - 2011.08.29 22:35:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Razin
Hey Vin, when will you post the second Q&A responses?


Later this week. They are, however, already released to those who subscribed to the PAX Prime 2011 mailing list in-game.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.08.29 23:12:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Vin Hellsing
Originally by: Razin
Hey Vin, when will you post the second Q&A responses?


Later this week. They are, however, already released to those who subscribed to the PAX Prime 2011 mailing list in-game.

Thanks Vin. I guess subscribing now is too late to receive it.

Vin Hellsing
Posted - 2011.08.29 23:17:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Vin Hellsing
Originally by: Razin
Hey Vin, when will you post the second Q&A responses?


Later this week. They are, however, already released to those who subscribed to the PAX Prime 2011 mailing list in-game.

Thanks Vin. I guess subscribing now is too late to receive it.


Correct, but if you send me a conversation in-game, I can send you a copy.

Shepard Book
Posted - 2011.08.31 07:00:00 - [87]
 

Base to VIn. Are ya out there? I want news! Laughing

Vin Hellsing
Posted - 2011.08.31 07:08:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Shepard Book
Base to VIn. Are ya out there? I want news! Laughing


Q&A #2 will be posted to the forums at 0:00 GMT on the 1st of September.

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.08.31 07:22:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Vin Hellsing
[
We discussed this earlier in the thread. Seriously, don't post if you're not going to read the thread. I provided useful clarifications that are worth looking at.



Seriously, fanboy much? I do not hate CCP, nor do I hate EVE but some sceptism is called for these days and somebody making a valid remark concerning the lack of focus by CCP on their flagship (and only active) product is not out of place.

Concerning the new nebulae, CCP is working on some region spanning nebulae that would be visible through whole regions, changing depending on your orientation towards them from the different solarsystems. They would be ment to create a more "cohesive" feel when traveling as now most system have just random "backgrounds".

I myself still love eve, was waiting with anticipation on ambulation/incarna but was left sorely dissapointed in the way it was brought forward. I keep gettign disaapointed witht he way CCP these days handle their main business which is EVE ONLINE. I am likely to play DUST 514 and even buy a ps3 for it, I even check out the dust 514 page daily. What I don't do is accept any explantion on face value these days. soonTM has been used a bit to much for that.

I would like to ask if there will be an update to the blogs concerning the 0.0 winter expansion with all the feedback that has been given on the "ideas and disucssion thread" currently with all the different topics its quite difficult to keep up with the proposed changes, ideas and perhaps implemented ideas on the design of the new 0.0 ideas.

Also, Faction warfare has some similar complaints with 0.0 (shooting structures, risk versus rewards, etc) can some of these solutions be ported over?

An update on the progress of the art departement or a blog about what they currently have on their plate would be nice. Also: Pirate CQ's, awesome, although I am a little surprised they hadn't thought about it, it has been raised by many people on threads acros the forum.

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2011.08.31 07:44:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Ciar Meara

Seriously, fanboy much? I do not hate CCP, nor do I hate EVE but some sceptism is called for these days and somebody making a valid remark concerning the lack of focus by CCP on their flagship (and only active) product is not out of place.

Concerning the new nebulae, CCP is working on some region spanning nebulae that would be visible through whole regions, changing depending on your orientation towards them from the different solarsystems. They would be ment to create a more "cohesive" feel when traveling as now most system have just random "backgrounds".

I myself still love eve, was waiting with anticipation on ambulation/incarna but was left sorely dissapointed in the way it was brought forward. I keep gettign disaapointed witht he way CCP these days handle their main business which is EVE ONLINE. I am likely to play DUST 514 and even buy a ps3 for it, I even check out the dust 514 page daily. What I don't do is accept any explantion on face value these days. soonTM has been used a bit to much for that.

I would like to ask if there will be an update to the blogs concerning the 0.0 winter expansion with all the feedback that has been given on the "ideas and disucssion thread" currently with all the different topics its quite difficult to keep up with the proposed changes, ideas and perhaps implemented ideas on the design of the new 0.0 ideas.

Also, Faction warfare has some similar complaints with 0.0 (shooting structures, risk versus rewards, etc) can some of these solutions be ported over?

An update on the progress of the art departement or a blog about what they currently have on their plate would be nice. Also: Pirate CQ's, awesome, although I am a little surprised they hadn't thought about it, it has been raised by many people on threads acros the forum.


Very good post, I could not have said it better myself. I'll just underline what's important to me.


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