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blankseplocked Navy Scorpion for L4?
 
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Ellen Woods
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:22:00 - [1]
 

Dear community, is navy Scorpion good ship as an universal L4 runner against all npc's? And if so, cruise or siege?

Kristan Nvar
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:54:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Kristan Nvar on 23/08/2011 17:54:09
Not sure about all NPC's but it one im been using for while.
Its done me good but i run with a gang of 2 friends for most lvl 4's..

Caleidascope
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.08.23 19:10:00 - [3]
 

I switch shield resists as needed.

I use cruise fit.

Metarsus
Posted - 2011.08.23 20:20:00 - [4]
 

Yes. This fitting is a good place to start. Depending on your skills/laziness, you can drop the EM/Therm hardeners and just run two invulns if you're outside of Amarr space.

I've personally been flying an SNI in Minmatar space for a month or so; always omni-tanked, never have to warp out. Love this ship.

Oh, and cruise missiles ofc.

Sunviking
Posted - 2011.08.23 21:07:00 - [5]
 

Hey,

I have been using the SNI for a long time now, until I got into a Tengu. SNI can do any lvl4 mission without warping out, and difference in mission completion between SNI and RNI is minimal, if there is a difference.

In the monumental 8 mid-slots you get, I use 3 hardeners, shield booster+amplifier, with 2 target painters, and a webifier to use against frigates. For rigging I use 3 x rigor rigs, combined with 2 painters it means you hit any cruiser for full damage with tech2 fury cruise missiles.

The 8 mid-slots also makes the SNI a lethal PvP ship in any fleet, but that's another story...

greengimp7
Posted - 2011.08.24 11:28:00 - [6]
 

Just get a CNR, the SNI is just a normal raven with a bigger tank, the CNR however will kill the SNI in mission completion times.

JT Kurk
Posted - 2011.08.24 11:41:00 - [7]
 

I would go with the navy scorpion, twice the tank as a cnr and just a little less damage and should handle all the lvl 4s depending on your skills.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.24 12:19:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: JT Kurk
I would go with the navy scorpion, twice the tank as a cnr and just a little less damage and should handle all the lvl 4s depending on your skills.
Why do you need twice the tank of something that already tanks everything, especially if it comes at the cost damage the thing you could actually make use of?

Le'Mon Tichim
Amarr
The Baseborn Syndicate
Posted - 2011.08.24 13:48:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: JT Kurk
I would go with the navy scorpion, twice the tank as a cnr and just a little less damage and should handle all the lvl 4s depending on your skills.
Why do you need twice the tank of something that already tanks everything, especially if it comes at the cost damage the thing you could actually make use of?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but to achieve your average tank on a Navy Raven, you have to use all six mids, where a Navy Scorpion can theoretically omni tank using four, leaving four more slots for an afterburner, target painters, webbers...

It seems to me that, while the Scorpion doesn't dish out the damage like the Raven does, the trade off in tank is more than worth it.

Captain Hindsite
Posted - 2011.08.24 14:41:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Le'Mon Tichim
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: JT Kurk
I would go with the navy scorpion, twice the tank as a cnr and just a little less damage and should handle all the lvl 4s depending on your skills.
Why do you need twice the tank of something that already tanks everything, especially if it comes at the cost damage the thing you could actually make use of?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but to achieve your average tank on a Navy Raven, you have to use all six mids, where a Navy Scorpion can theoretically omni tank using four, leaving four more slots for an afterburner, target painters, webbers...

It seems to me that, while the Scorpion doesn't dish out the damage like the Raven does, the trade off in tank is more than worth it.


What you're missing - high dps effectively adds to your tank by reducing incoming dps. CNR kills stuff so fast that you can generally use an absolute minimum tank (ie, 4 BCS in the lows, 2 hardeners in the mids).

Pantload
Gallente
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Flatline.
Posted - 2011.08.24 16:18:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Pantload on 24/08/2011 16:24:02
The Navy Scorp is a cool looking hull. Its not a terrible ship, but its not a damage improvement from the standard Raven. You basic Raven can already tank L4's no problem. Having twice the tank doesn't improve mission completion times ( unless you're warping out constantly. in which case something else is wrong ). Having at least 16% more damage ( which the CNR does ) helps you complete missions faster. Also CNR has a better drone bay than std Raven or Navy Scorp. Again, nothing really wrong with Navy Scorp but if you are running missions to accumulate ISK, then efficiency( mission completion times and thus isk/hr ) should be a concern and if that is so, then the CNR is the clear winner.

That's my 2 cents. Spend it wisely.
Cheers,
-PL

*edit*
A gank-fitted BS should be able to do nearly all L4 missions on 300-400 dps of tank. This should never require more than 4 slots for tanking. Sometimes only 3, depending. This advice is only applicable to a high-skilled, gank-fitted, pve BS. This means your DPS would be 800-1000 ( if not quite a bit more ) and thus only a minimal tank is required. Things can't hurt you if you've killed them, after all.

Substantia Nigra
Posted - 2011.08.25 22:44:00 - [12]
 

SNI is fine for lvl4s, and is also pretty good as a non-pirate w-space battleship ... mainly because it's got a pretty good shield tank.

CNR throws out a bit more DPS and so shoudl let you finish missions a bit quicker. CNR was a disappointment in w-space, and I ended up sticking with SNI until i could run a decent tengu.

Rattlesnake offers better tank than either and with decent skills, pretty good DPS.

Machariel doesn't have the tank, and doesn't have quite the range of the missile boats (unless you fit arties ... ughh!!), but does throw out lots of DPS and clears missions very quickly. Tank is over-rated if you're awake and throwing out those amounts of DPS.

Rip Minner
Gallente
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
Posted - 2011.08.26 05:51:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Rip Minner on 26/08/2011 05:53:10
Originally by: Pantload
Edited by: Pantload on 24/08/2011 16:24:02
The Navy Scorp is a cool looking hull. Its not a terrible ship, but its not a damage improvement from the standard Raven. You basic Raven can already tank L4's no problem. Having twice the tank doesn't improve mission completion times ( unless you're warping out constantly. in which case something else is wrong ). Having at least 16% more damage ( which the CNR does ) helps you complete missions faster. Also CNR has a better drone bay than std Raven or Navy Scorp. Again, nothing really wrong with Navy Scorp but if you are running missions to accumulate ISK, then efficiency( mission completion times and thus isk/hr ) should be a concern and if that is so, then the CNR is the clear winner.

That's my 2 cents. Spend it wisely.
Cheers,
-PL

*edit*
A gank-fitted BS should be able to do nearly all L4 missions on 300-400 dps of tank. This should never require more than 4 slots for tanking. Sometimes only 3, depending. This advice is only applicable to a high-skilled, gank-fitted, pve BS. This means your DPS would be 800-1000 ( if not quite a bit more ) and thus only a minimal tank is required. Things can't hurt you if you've killed them, after all.


Well if your hole goal is to be efficient then you should probly work for a Vargur or Mach just saying. How ever I do feel that the SNI is good for training wheels and do's help make up with target painters/AF/Webs. But realy it mostly not only depends on the ship and skills trained but also on the persons play style.

Some peoples play styles will fit better with the SNI and others will fit better with the CNR. And when a ship fits with a persons play style that person will normaly make more isk/h then if they had the better ship and DPS. And thats a bit of hard won info from running a corp and training pilots.

I have found that my pilots do better when I fit a ship to the pilot reather then try to force a differnt play style on the pilot in a better ship. And the main reason I think that is most players just relaxe in level 4's and do things how they like it regardless.ugh

Edit: And as a after thought I personly would reather look at a Scorp hull then the Raven hullugh

Vorre
Posted - 2011.08.26 07:30:00 - [14]
 

ehm the CNR doenst need much tank at all 2specific hardeners,xl booster, a boost amp if u want and thats it, never had to warp out including AE bonus room.

SexTrader
Posted - 2011.08.26 14:21:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Rip Minner
Edited by: Rip Minner on 26/08/2011 05:53:10
Originally by: Pantload
Edited by: Pantload on 24/08/2011 16:24:02
The Navy Scorp is a cool looking hull. Its not a terrible ship, but its not a damage improvement from the standard Raven. You basic Raven can already tank L4's no problem. Having twice the tank doesn't improve mission completion times ( unless you're warping out constantly. in which case something else is wrong ). Having at least 16% more damage ( which the CNR does ) helps you complete missions faster. Also CNR has a better drone bay than std Raven or Navy Scorp. Again, nothing really wrong with Navy Scorp but if you are running missions to accumulate ISK, then efficiency( mission completion times and thus isk/hr ) should be a concern and if that is so, then the CNR is the clear winner.

That's my 2 cents. Spend it wisely.
Cheers,
-PL

*edit*
A gank-fitted BS should be able to do nearly all L4 missions on 300-400 dps of tank. This should never require more than 4 slots for tanking. Sometimes only 3, depending. This advice is only applicable to a high-skilled, gank-fitted, pve BS. This means your DPS would be 800-1000 ( if not quite a bit more ) and thus only a minimal tank is required. Things can't hurt you if you've killed them, after all.


Well if your hole goal is to be efficient then you should probly work for a Vargur or Mach just saying. How ever I do feel that the SNI is good for training wheels and do's help make up with target painters/AF/Webs. But realy it mostly not only depends on the ship and skills trained but also on the persons play style.

Some peoples play styles will fit better with the SNI and others will fit better with the CNR. And when a ship fits with a persons play style that person will normaly make more isk/h then if they had the better ship and DPS. And thats a bit of hard won info from running a corp and training pilots.

I have found that my pilots do better when I fit a ship to the pilot reather then try to force a differnt play style on the pilot in a better ship. And the main reason I think that is most players just relaxe in level 4's and do things how they like it regardless.ugh

Edit: And as a after thought I personly would reather look at a Scorp hull then the Raven hullugh



True. I've tried Raven, CNR, Golem, SNI,Rattlesnake, and I settled on the SNI because it just fit my playing style the best. Just fly what you want and have fun with it.Very Happy

Pantload
Gallente
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Flatline.
Posted - 2011.08.26 14:42:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Pantload on 26/08/2011 14:43:36
Originally by: Rip Minner
Edited by: Rip Minner on 26/08/2011 05:53:10
Originally by: Pantload
Edited by: Pantload on 24/08/2011 16:24:02
The Navy Scorp is a cool looking hull. Its not a terrible ship, but its not a damage improvement from the standard Raven. You basic Raven can already tank L4's no problem. Having twice the tank doesn't improve mission completion times ( unless you're warping out constantly. in which case something else is wrong ). Having at least 16% more damage ( which the CNR does ) helps you complete missions faster. Also CNR has a better drone bay than std Raven or Navy Scorp. Again, nothing really wrong with Navy Scorp but if you are running missions to accumulate ISK, then efficiency( mission completion times and thus isk/hr ) should be a concern and if that is so, then the CNR is the clear winner.

That's my 2 cents. Spend it wisely.
Cheers,
-PL

*edit*
A gank-fitted BS should be able to do nearly all L4 missions on 300-400 dps of tank. This should never require more than 4 slots for tanking. Sometimes only 3, depending. This advice is only applicable to a high-skilled, gank-fitted, pve BS. This means your DPS would be 800-1000 ( if not quite a bit more ) and thus only a minimal tank is required. Things can't hurt you if you've killed them, after all.


Well if your hole goal is to be efficient then you should probly work for a Vargur or Mach just saying. How ever I do feel that the SNI is good for training wheels and do's help make up with target painters/AF/Webs. But realy it mostly not only depends on the ship and skills trained but also on the persons play style.

Some peoples play styles will fit better with the SNI and others will fit better with the CNR. And when a ship fits with a persons play style that person will normaly make more isk/h then if they had the better ship and DPS. And thats a bit of hard won info from running a corp and training pilots.

I have found that my pilots do better when I fit a ship to the pilot reather then try to force a differnt play style on the pilot in a better ship. And the main reason I think that is most players just relaxe in level 4's and do things how they like it regardless.ugh

Edit: And as a after thought I personly would reather look at a Scorp hull then the Raven hullugh



I've flown the Mach, had a few of them, you don't have to convince me that its a great mission-runner. It's my personal favorite. But OP was asking about Navy Scorp which makes one believe his skills are more Caldari-oriented. Which is why I offered the CNR as alternative. It's a long way to cross-train from a Caldari pilot to a Vargur or Machariel pilot.

I do agree with your point that taste and play style are factors, I was simply offering the numbers-oriented, min-maxer type view regarding mission completion times. A lot of people tend to grossly overtank their L4 boats because they say it makes them feel better. That's a fine enough justification really, since its a game and they are supposed to have fun while playing. I'm just saying that a different philosophy is less relaxed, less comfortable, and *faster*. Mission completion time directly ties to ISK/hr.

From what I see these days, maxing ISK/hr is not that popular of a concept. You will see a LOT of people who will purposely steer you away from the fastest way to make the most money while missioning. So be it.

In conclusion:
Fly the Navy Scorp. It looks good and has big tank. Everything else is somewhat less important to the average player. Oh and fit Cruise not Siege.

jjit
Posted - 2011.08.26 19:33:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Pantload

In conclusion:
Fly the Navy Scorp. It looks good and has big tank. Everything else is somewhat less important to the average player. Oh and fit Cruise not Siege.


^ yes

If your alternative is a Raven, then a SNI is paying 200m ISK for a better looking Raven with a better tank, which is quite reasonable for many.

If the alternative is a CNR, then the with decent human skills/SP/ISK the CNR is clearly better ISK/hour. And before the FOTM Mach, it seemed to be the most recommended "if I could have only one" missioner although true min/maxers own CNR & Tengu & Mach & Nightmare.

As in life, the best looking are not always the most efficient.


 

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