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Spaceman Jack
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:22:00 - [1]
 

By making it MORE attractive
and NOT making everything else LESS attractive

Tis all thank you

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:25:00 - [2]
 

Making it more attractive has never worked, and they've been trying for years now. Throwing ISK at 0.0 dwellers just further entrenches the people already there, who are actively forcing out any newcomers, and greedily claiming space they have no intention of ever using.

Ramalamadindong
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:26:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Spaceman Jack
By making it MORE attractive
and NOT making everything else LESS attractive

Tis all thank you


Everyone in hisec will be bulldozed into nullsec where 150 million sp bittervets, who fly supercaps, are waiting for you.

I'd leave now if I were you. LaughingLaughing

Spaceman Jack
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:29:00 - [4]
 

They did NOT make it more attractive. Sure you can make money out there, but the mechanics fail and the last SOV sucked major balls. Its a total pan in the ass.

But I guess if you suck at building... destroy?

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:33:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Ramalamadindong
Everyone in hisec will be bulldozed into nullsec where 150 million sp bittervets, who fly supercaps, are waiting for you.

I'd leave now if I were you. LaughingLaughing


You only need massive amounts of income if you plan on buying a supercap. Hisec can easily support people who buy battleships and anything smaller, even if they spend another 5 years nerfing the **** out of it.

My prediction for the future:

nullsec players- "lolz thanks for the ISK"

hisec players- "What is this nullsec you speak of?"

So pretty much business as usual.

Ramalamadindong
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:43:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Bane Necran

My prediction for the future:

nullsec players- "lolz thanks for the ISK"

hisec players- "What is this nullsec you speak of?"

So pretty much business as usual.


what makes you think CCP will fail to get more people into nullsec. They can easily force people to go there by nerfing hisec mission payouts, loot drops, lp rewards, added taxation for station services, nerf asteroid belts, WHs etc and giving null a massive buff.

The hisec crowd won't have a say in the direction CCP decide to take their game. The CSM will see to that. Eve is changing. Adapt or die.

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:51:00 - [7]
 

You must be new. CCP has been adding more ISK faucets to 0.0 and nerfing hisec for years now, and it has accomplished nothing, yet they continue to think next time will work.

Kesshisan
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:54:00 - [8]
 

I'm mostly a high sec carebear. I go into low and null a lot, but I don't PvP. It's usually just for travel.

I love the fact that null and low sec (and high sec wars) exists because it means people will lose their ships and I make more profits via manufacturing new ships for people to blow up. It's a beautiful cycle. But I digress...


Over the weekend I took my hand at playing around in Null. I got my first pew-pew ship into my Alliance's null sec region, and tried to check out making isk there. I was making roughly the same isk per hour as running incursions or running missions before the LP and/or salvage is added in. And lets not consider time/isk lost due to a red showing up (I probably shouldn't be in something expensive) and more time/isk loss due to CTAs/defense of space that is expected of me.

I talked with people who lived in Null (not my alliance) about my goals in EvE and why I am in Null vs Empire, etc. Pretty much everyone gave me the same advice "There is no reason for you to be in null."

I am going to give this null sec thing a legitimate and honest try, but it really looks like there is no reason for me to be in null sec given the current state of null vs high sec. Now I can't speak for everybody, but for me, I don't believe the move to null sec is going to be a good move for me.

But I swear I will give living in null an honest try.

Oh'Freddled Gruntbuggly
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:57:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Oh''Freddled Gruntbuggly on 23/08/2011 17:00:17
Originally by: Ramalamadindong

They can easily force people to go there by nerfing hisec mission payouts, loot drops, lp rewards, added taxation for station services, nerf asteroid belts, WHs etc and giving null a massive buff.


Still wouldn't work. Even without all of that there are still better things to do in hi-sec than you'd find in null. I've been about six years in EVE and only ever visit null as a tourist - and even then not that often. Once a year maybe I take a holiday in null, to see if it's changed at all, and it never does. The only way to buff it would be to provide vastly more of it. So much so that the majority of systems remain forever unclaimed.

To understand why so many people find null-sec unattractive, beyond the blobs and the campers, take a look at the soveriegnty map: It's all claimed. There's hardly any systems that are available for colonisation, and those that are look to be just about worthless and impossible to hold. What kind of "empty reaches of space" is it when every damned system is already occupied?





That's the big difference. In hi-sec one can build up from scratch to a multi-billion per month income without having to join some mega-alliance. If null-sec consisted largely of out-of-the-way systems with low productivity that could be colonised by independent and small corps, you'd find more people out there. Such systems would have to be, like 50 jumps or so away from anything interesting, or maybe located beyond maximum jump distance such that only locally-made carriers can enter. Something halfway between null-sec as it is now and wormholes.


Dusty Warrior
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:58:00 - [10]
 

How to make null more attractive?

Someone posted what I think would be an awesome thing to do.

"Remove all sov mechanics."

I think a little refinement along with removing sov would attract more people. Yes... I know the big bot alliances are already in place and have supercaps on top of supercaps but think that can be dealt with. Don't underestimate the power of noobs in mass numbers!

I also think once the need to join the bull**** political bot alliances is removed as a way to get to 0.0, more people will become interested in carving out their own little place in 0.0

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:59:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Kesshisan
I swear I will give living in null an honest try.


Everyone should give it a shot, if for no reason other than to know what they're talking about in hisec vs nullsec arguments. Very often you see nullsec supporters who've spent no time in hisec, and vise versa.

Ad'Hakim Tahous
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:16:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Bane Necran
Making it more attractive has never worked, and they've been trying for years now. Throwing ISK at 0.0 dwellers just further entrenches the people already there, who are actively forcing out any newcomers, and greedily claiming space they have no intention of ever using.


THIS! The only little ray of hope may come from the current round of brainstorming around Smallholdings.... in which small groups can hide, set up some sort of small station, and still earn significant ISK outside of the wealth concentrators run by Alliance leaders.

CCP just doesn't seem to get it! People might indeed like to try out 0.0, but they have absolutely no intention of becoming meat-shield wage *****s for Alliance Directors. For the moment these folks move to w-space.... all the benefits with none of the politics.

It isn't 0.0's capacity to generate more ISK that may attract new pilots, its how that ISK will go to those new pilots rather than be concentrated in the hands of those running 0.0!

Laughing Of course, since the successful introduction of w-space pilots did have a challenging and profitable volume of space to explore and settle..... and since that clearly doesn't benefit 0.0 space both the CSM and CCP seem poised to swat w-space with the nerf bat....

Want more people in 0.0? Find ways for them to earn ISK without contributing to the Alliance treasuries! Laughing "... Build it and they will come...."

Maken Cheese
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:28:00 - [13]
 

What I don't get is... why do people want nullsec to become more populated? Isn't one of the main complaints about null the large lag-inducing blobs? Trying to get more people out there will only make the problem worse.

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:31:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Maken Cheese
What I don't get is... why do people want nullsec to become more populated? Isn't one of the main complaints about null the large lag-inducing blobs? Trying to get more people out there will only make the problem worse.


The hardware can handle lots of people doing things on different 'grids' much easier than it can them all on the same one. When people are blobbing they're all on the same one, but if the same amount is just ratting or whatever it's no big deal.

Dusty Warrior
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:36:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Maken Cheese
What I don't get is... why do people want nullsec to become more populated? Isn't one of the main complaints about null the large lag-inducing blobs? Trying to get more people out there will only make the problem worse.


I don't know... might should ask the "CSM" -AKA- "Null sec holders" why they want to nerf wh/lo/hi secs to push more people into their systems. Maybe they don't have enough slaves or it could just be they have nobody interested in the whine 0.0 politics produces now days. Maybe... since CCP really is hammering bots as they proclaim and 0.0 alliances are losing that niche they once had when their bots were running strong.

Maken Cheese
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:36:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Bane Necran


The hardware can handle lots of people doing things on different 'grids' much easier than it can them all on the same one. When people are blobbing they're all on the same one, but if the same amount is just ratting or whatever it's no big deal.


You missed the point. Higher nullsec population means more people for every gang/cta that forms. Which means more people in every fight, and more soul-crushing lag.

Ad'Hakim Tahous
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:42:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Maken Cheese
Originally by: Bane Necran


The hardware can handle lots of people doing things on different 'grids' much easier than it can them all on the same one. When people are blobbing they're all on the same one, but if the same amount is just ratting or whatever it's no big deal.


You missed the point. Higher nullsec population means more people for every gang/cta that forms. Which means more people in every fight, and more soul-crushing lag.


Check out the Features and Ideas Forum: Nullsec Design Specs: Smallholdings.....

If they can make that work, and keep the ISK out of the Alliance Treasuries there might be a ray of hope....

Lady Zarrina
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:42:00 - [18]
 

They really are trying to FUBAR this. I truly hope they are just bored, cause if they putting any thought into this, I am scared.

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:42:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Maken Cheese
You missed the point. Higher nullsec population means more people for every gang/cta that forms. Which means more people in every fight, and more soul-crushing lag.


I got the point, it's just that more being able to doesn't necessarily mean they will. I'd be interested in knowing what percentage of the NC showed up to defend it.

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:50:00 - [20]
 

Ever since I started the game, all I've heard about is how great null sec is. Can't be arsed myself to bother with mega-groups... Change hi-sec all you want - I *still* can't see any reason to go to null, especially now, when there's what? Two competing groups?


Bah!

Cashcow Golden Goose
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:57:00 - [21]
 

Move to Null, become nameless nobody in the ISK printing machine, declare yourself important. Game Over.

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.08.23 18:11:00 - [22]
 

Part of making it more attractive is making it so those currently there cannot force you out or force you be become a slave.

I'l Duce
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.08.23 18:32:00 - [23]
 

Attractive and accessible sounds sexy.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.08.23 18:39:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 23/08/2011 18:53:34
Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 23/08/2011 18:49:18
Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 23/08/2011 18:45:55
Originally by: Bane Necran
Making it more attractive has never worked, and they've been trying for years now. Throwing ISK at 0.0 dwellers just further entrenches the people already there, who are actively forcing out any newcomers, and greedily claiming space they have no intention of ever using.


Well THERES yer problem, making high sec worthless is just gonna **** off the ppl in high sec an make them find new games

Originally by: Ramalamadindong
Adapt or die.



Funny you say that cause if those 80% of the players decide to leave for other games rather than let CCP push them where they dont want to go, EVE itself will be facing an adapt or die situation

Originally by: Dusty Warrior
I know the big bot alliances are already in place and have supercaps on top of supercaps but think that can be dealt with. Don't underestimate the power of noobs in mass numbers!



The situation of old school Goonfleet vs BoB back in the day comes to mind.

Id kinda like to see a CSM broken into two groups. half of them being 0.0 dwellers and half 0.0. cause the 0.0 CSMs seem to be all about pushing everyone into their meatgrinder so they have new targets to shoot at, regardless of theyd more likely leave the game than deal with their ****. Its funny how in this game "80%" THE MAJORITY of the players are pushed about by the minority of the players lol

Ad'Hakim Tahous
Posted - 2011.08.23 21:18:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
Ever since I started the game, all I've heard about is how great null sec is. Can't be arsed myself to bother with mega-groups... Change hi-sec all you want - I *still* can't see any reason to go to null, especially now, when there's what? Two competing groups?

Bah!

Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online:
No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.

NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA!


Why CSM / CCP is grabbing for the nerf bat ==>> Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online:

Ad'Hakim Tahous
Posted - 2011.08.23 21:22:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
Move to Null, become nameless nobody in the ISK printing machine, declare yourself important. Game Over.


Laughing ..... AND THIS!!

Dear CCP: It isn't all about having 0.0 produce more ISK, it is all - lll - llllllll about the supermajority of the ISK flowing into the hands of a tiny group of people.....

All the things you want people to do in 0.0 happen every day in w-space. Difference between 0.0 and w-space?.... Laughing take a good look at the CSM for a clue........

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.23 22:14:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Ad'Hakim Tahous
since the successful introduction of w-space pilots did have a challenging and profitable volume of space to explore and settle..... and since that clearly doesn't benefit 0.0 space both the CSM and CCP seem poised to swat w-space with the nerf bat....


Having someplace to go to earn decent isk, get decent fights and not have to worry about someone's 23,000 other friends has appealed to about 3% of the player base. These people are the ones who wanted to try out 0.0, but had zero-point-**** interest in null-sec politics/bs/fc's...

I predict that "farms and fields" will appeal to another, oh...

3%....

Could be wrong... But I don't think I am.

Russell Casey
Posted - 2011.08.23 22:33:00 - [28]
 

If they want more people in null they need to make it more attractive in terms of small-corps and independents actually having a shot out there. Most people who choose highsec over nul don't do it because it's safe, they do it because they and their three small buddies can actually interact and change the landscape with other soloers and small corps the way ccp claims you can do so in null.

BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
Posted - 2011.08.23 22:43:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Ramalamadindong
Originally by: Bane Necran

My prediction for the future:

nullsec players- "lolz thanks for the ISK"

hisec players- "What is this nullsec you speak of?"

So pretty much business as usual.


what makes you think CCP will fail to get more people into nullsec. They can easily force people to go there by nerfing hisec mission payouts, loot drops, lp rewards, added taxation for station services, nerf asteroid belts, WHs etc and giving null a massive buff.

The hisec crowd won't have a say in the direction CCP decide to take their game. The CSM will see to that. Eve is changing. Adapt or die.



Whatever dude. It takes CCP YEARS to make any type of 'change' and when that happens Mittens and his CSM muppets will be long out of office

MsValentineWiggin
Posted - 2011.08.23 22:54:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung

Originally by: Bane Necran
Making it more attractive has never worked, and they've been trying for years now. Throwing ISK at 0.0 dwellers just further entrenches the people already there, who are actively forcing out any newcomers, and greedily claiming space they have no intention of ever using.


Well THERES yer problem, making high sec worthless is just gonna **** off the ppl in high sec an make them find new games

Originally by: Ramalamadindong
Adapt or die.



Funny you say that cause if those 80% of the players decide to leave for other games rather than let CCP push them where they dont want to go, EVE itself will be facing an adapt or die situation



If CCP were to completely eliminate hi-sec, what % of current hi-sec residents would renew after a month in 0.0? 5%? 20%? 10%? It is a small %. CCP can't force anyone to move to 0.0; all they can do is force them to leave hi-sec.

If you and the CCP devs get their way and you significantly reduce CCP's revenue and thus resources, where do you think CCP will cut efforts:

1) DUST 514
2) World Of Twilightwhatever
3) 0.0 development

/snicker

My object all sublime
I shall achieve in time
To let the punishment fit the crime
The punishment fit the crime;
And make each prisoner pent
Unwillingly represent
A source of innocent merriment!
Of innocent merriment!

The Mikado, Act II


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