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blankseplocked THE REMOVAL OF ICE MINING IN HI-SEC IS PURELY TO FACILITATE NEX STORE
 
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Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
Posted - 2011.08.23 11:59:00 - [31]
 

CCP wants to drive high sec bots out of the game, so that only assorted 0.0 bots would continue to milk space for iskies.

Kunming
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2011.08.23 12:10:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Alina Wize

Originally by: Kunming
...


You are very wrong in your assumptions here.

1. The Cluster**** is lacking in a suitable super capital fleet and has defended Deklein against the DRF/PL & Friends invasions. We've been forcing fights under cyno jammers and they've purely been sub-capital fights, nothing can touch our AlphaFleet (except super capital blobs)

2. Jump bridges were nerfed, we can only have one per system. This has prevented us from projecting our power from far away because we now have to use a gate or three to get to the next bridge and any of them could be camped by a Suddenly PL Supercaps cyno alt. (which has happened a few times)

3. I can't say for other alliances but our moon goo revenue goes towards sub-capital ship reimbursement programs, never any massive supercapital/capital production reasons. (TEST doesn't have very many tech moons) Here's our revenue report for those interested: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CKbl8ZwI&key=0AlnyNGc6PAOwdG1LaW5EQlJ6VTNNQXZiU3haQmtZemc&hl=en_US&authkey=CKbl8ZwI#gid=2

edit: note the tabs at the bottom of the sheet


Alright you have your experience with things and I have mine..

Moon Goo: Im not specifically talking about your alliance here, if you have or dont have many tech moons doesnt change the facts about them.

Super capitals: Pls read what I have wrote again, Im not talking about cyno jamming a system and defending it. Im talking about some group (lets say its a competent group), trying to take 0.0 space, this is not possible with current mechanics; the vicious cycle: you dont have sov u cant build SCs, you cant build SCs you cant take sov.

Jump bridge/networks: I know they are nerfed to 1 per system but the whole concept of avoiding gates to move around removes casual pvp that used to happen in 0.0 daily.


Well the arguements I made are already acknowleged as known problems of 0.0 by CCP. And the big 0.0 drawingboard has all those issues listed up:

- Super capitals will get counters in form of sub-capitals + entry lvl 0.0 for ppl to build up
- Moon goo wont be the gold anymore, 0.0 industry overhaul
- Nothing about further JB changes but they want to encourage frequent skirmishes, also they want us to run logistics over gates again so pirates have a chance to disturb big organisations if left unattended.

Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
Posted - 2011.08.23 12:12:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Bongo Debbie
This is a no brainer really.
It is my belief that this is little more than a cash grab attempt by CCP to get more people using the highly unpopular station environments.


Now I don't belong to current incarna enviroment fanclub either, but this comment is rather - hmm - desperate ?-)

Marara Kovacs
Posted - 2011.08.23 12:13:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Bongo Debbie
This is a no brainer really.

CCP have made an arbitrary decision to move ALL Ice mining out to 0.0 space, which is inaccessible to the 80% (or so) of people that choose to live in Empire where they are free from griefing.

The ramifications are huge. People that choose to live out of POS in an effort to avoid use of stations wherever possible, due to the pointless changes of Incarna and the poisonous addition of RMT in the NEX store (which is the only reason to have a station environment in the first place), will be getting the shaft. These people will not be able to reasonably afford to operate out of POS and inevitably will be forced back into using stations.

It is my belief that this is little more than a cash grab attempt by CCP to get more people using the highly unpopular station environments.


Your hair is aweful So is this thread.

Telvani
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
Posted - 2011.08.23 12:14:00 - [35]
 

I want cheap fuel and easy targets for solo suicide ganks in a thorax, the hulk does not fill this role.

Bongo Debbie
Minmatar
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.08.23 12:18:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Marara Kovacs
Your hair is aweful So is this thread.

The troll has been reported and the thread will be looking much betteronce CCP have paid a visit. Unfortunately I can't do much about the hair although this is a bit rich looking at your portrait.

Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
Posted - 2011.08.23 13:53:00 - [37]
 

I would support the removal of Ice Belts from High/Low Sec so long as we got them in WH space. Giving Ice only to nullsec would devastate the WH players as nullsec residents would be the only ones able to get certain POS fuels which they would want to use for their own POS's. Anything else they have leftover that they do sell would be extremely expensive.

WH space residents already have to find ways to get POS fuel into a WH just to survive...making that any more of a problem would be stupid.

Either way. Ice has nothing to do with NeX. It is an extreme stretch just making that connection at all.

Personally I don't think Ice should be removed from High Sec or Low Sec. Ice should be available anywhere that it is needed for fuel. Including wormholes.

Lu'Marat
Posted - 2011.08.23 14:26:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Lu''Marat on 23/08/2011 18:39:36
Originally by: Bongo Debbie

The troll has been reported and the thread will be looking much betteronce CCP have paid a visit. Unfortunately I can't do much about the hair although this is a bit rich looking at your portrait.


Pot calling the kettle black.
Your OP is wild, provocative speculation based on (quite likely deliberate) misinformation. Not only do you fail to back up your claims, you jump into everyone's face who calls you out for it.

If you really want to have a discussion about this, I'm sure you know perfectly well this is not how you do it.
Thus: Troll. Tip of the hat for chutzpah, though.
[Edit sev. hours later:] Misjudged the OP's intention and smelled agitation alts where there were none. Probably. Telling by where the thread's gone: Not trolling. Getting twitchy lately with the NeX-doomsayer-all-caps-threads. Apologies, my bad.

Bongo Debbie
Minmatar
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.08.23 14:41:00 - [39]
 

I have not responded to trolling any more than was necessary and refuse to dignify such remarks. This thread has an interesting back and forth and I have actually been considerably persuaded to appreciate opposing issues in this matter.

If you do not like this you are welcome to leave the thread without without the necessity of making an off-topic reply.

Mrs Pants
Posted - 2011.08.23 15:25:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Lu'Marat
Originally by: Bongo Debbie

The troll has been reported and the thread will be looking much betteronce CCP have paid a visit. Unfortunately I can't do much about the hair although this is a bit rich looking at your portrait.


Pot calling the kettle black.
Your OP is wild, provocative speculation based on (quite likely deliberate) misinformation. Not only do you fail to back up your claims, you jump into everyone's face who calls you out for it.

If you really want to have a discussion about this, I'm sure you know perfectly well this is not how you do it.
Thus: Troll. Tip of the hat for chutzpah, though.


Interesting to see that you think a statement about hair is "calling her up on her original post". I see the point of the OP though. Turning the CQ off is not pretty. Having it on tempts people to make nex purchases to attempt to improve on what they see. Removing ice from high sec should impact the cost of running a high sec pos, so living there should become untenable and there for people will be forced to live in stations. Step back to the CQ turning off and repeat as required until you see the link makes sense or mash head against keyboard for effect.

On another note; I am jealous of the hair. Who's your stylist? Trinnie?

Bootleg Jack
Potters Field
Posted - 2011.08.23 15:34:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Bongo Debbie
This is a no brainer really.

CCP have made an arbitrary decision to move ALL Ice mining out to 0.0 space, which is inaccessible to the 80% (or so) of people that choose to live in Empire where they are free from griefing.

The ramifications are huge. People that choose to live out of POS in an effort to avoid use of stations wherever possible, due to the pointless changes of Incarna and the poisonous addition of RMT in the NEX store (which is the only reason to have a station environment in the first place), will be getting the shaft. These people will not be able to reasonably afford to operate out of POS and inevitably will be forced back into using stations.

It is my belief that this is little more than a cash grab attempt by CCP to get more people using the highly unpopular station environments.


10/10 for most childish and stupid consipiciry theroy of the week.

I mean I have heard some cry baby stuff on these forums, but this really takes the cake.

Do you drama queens with your constant cry baby conspiracy theories REALLY think adults take you seriously? Rolling Eyes

Bust me up, lol Laughing

Dusty Warrior
Posted - 2011.08.23 15:36:00 - [42]
 

"THE REMOVAL OF ICE MINING IN HI-SEC IS PURELY TO FACILITATE the alliance bots in sov held 0.0"




^^^Fixed it for you. ^^^

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.23 15:41:00 - [43]
 

If this happens, the price of ice products will go up until some new equilibrium is reached (presumably a reasonable bit higher than today).

It's gonna hose my little research and tech 2 production operation I run in high sec by screwing my profit margins because I'll be forced to buy ice products at the higher prices to run my POS.

Really not happy about this proposal from CCP.

Dusty Warrior
Posted - 2011.08.23 15:46:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Ana Vyr
If this happens, the price of ice products will go up until some new equilibrium is reached (presumably a reasonable bit higher than today).

It's gonna hose my little research and tech 2 production operation I run in high sec by screwing my profit margins because I'll be forced to buy ice products at the higher prices to run my POS.

Really not happy about this proposal from CCP.


Actually you'll keep on buying ice products. Only difference will be who you're buying it from. Like anything else of value you'll need to get it from the bots of 0.0. Yep... the ones now on the CSM.

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.23 15:49:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Dusty Warrior
Originally by: Ana Vyr
If this happens, the price of ice products will go up until some new equilibrium is reached (presumably a reasonable bit higher than today).

It's gonna hose my little research and tech 2 production operation I run in high sec by screwing my profit margins because I'll be forced to buy ice products at the higher prices to run my POS.

Really not happy about this proposal from CCP.


Actually you'll keep on buying ice products. Only difference will be who you're buying it from. Like anything else of value you'll need to get it from the bots of 0.0. Yep... the ones now on the CSM.


Yes, indeed I will, but my point is that margins are thin these days as it is doing what I'm doing. A drastic change in the price of ice will end my current operation, and thus probably my subscription, ultimately.

Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
Posted - 2011.08.23 15:50:00 - [46]
 

Quote:
THE REMOVAL OF ICE MINING IN HI-SEC IS PURELY TO FACILITATE NEX STORE


tinfoil hats, get your tinfoil hats here

only 500 AUR each

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.08.23 15:51:00 - [47]
 

Its CCP trying to alleviate the lag problem, by removing 60% of the population from the game - I figure 20% will adapt

Kunming
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2011.08.23 15:53:00 - [48]
 

You know what remove all ice belts.. its bull****!!

Helium-3 and such isotopes are mined from astral bodies which have been bombarded by solar/cosmic radiation for a long time.

Bongo Debbie
Minmatar
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:00:00 - [49]
 

I think the best way to deal with all the clearly rampant use of bots is to simply IP ban the offenders on a first offence basis. Allow an appeal mechanism but if caught there should be no sympathy. A warning should be issued a couple of weeks (or maybe just days) before the new policy is introduced so that people that wish to remain to play legitimately have the opportunity to stop botting in advance.

Then there should be no mercy.

Of course the problem with this is CCP are in a godawful financial state, as evidenced by their NEX store money grabbing desperation and to remove all those bot accounts would not be viable as they NEED that income to survive.

Therefore they have to impose artificial restrictions on the legitimate players in an effort to somehow appear to be doing something about bots, which of course they aren't since they rely on them as stated for income.

Catch-22.

Dusty Warrior
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:14:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Bongo Debbie
I think the best way to deal with all the clearly rampant use of bots is to simply IP ban the offenders on a first offence basis. Allow an appeal mechanism but if caught there should be no sympathy. A warning should be issued a couple of weeks (or maybe just days) before the new policy is introduced so that people that wish to remain to play legitimately have the opportunity to stop botting in advance.

Then there should be no mercy.

Of course the problem with this is CCP are in a godawful financial state, as evidenced by their NEX store money grabbing desperation and to remove all those bot accounts would not be viable as they NEED that income to survive.

Therefore they have to impose artificial restrictions on the legitimate players in an effort to somehow appear to be doing something about bots, which of course they aren't since they rely on them as stated for income.

Catch-22.


If they were to ban bots they'd have to ban the powerblocks that have them. They're trying to add to 0.0, not take away from it. Wink

Bongo Debbie
Minmatar
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:17:00 - [51]
 

I see nothing wrong with the removal of powerblocks. They aren't going to be able to enforce people not to band together but they can make it less worth their time.

Gaia Ma'chello
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:28:00 - [52]
 

You will notice in the quote below that total removal is not on the list of options;

Originally by: CCP Greyscale

Originally by: RG Sneaker
Edited by: RG Sneaker on 15/08/2011 11:26:19
Will Ice mining in hi sec end?
I might just close my hi sec POS then :-(


Thinking about it a bit, not sure where we're going to go. We might not change it at all, we might just make hisec belts deplete (and regen as normal) so they can roughly meet hisec demand.

[

Bongo Debbie
Minmatar
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.08.23 16:51:00 - [53]
 

That is not a comprehensive list of options, just a few mights.

Dusty Warrior
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:03:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Bongo Debbie
I see nothing wrong with the removal of powerblocks. They aren't going to be able to enforce people not to band together but they can make it less worth their time.


I'm sorry Bongo. I think you missed my sarcasm.

Oh'Freddled Gruntbuggly
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:21:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Alina Wize
Hi, maybe you can explain the connection between Ice Mining and NeX?


She already did.

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:25:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Bongo Debbie
which is inaccessible to the 80% (or so) of people that choose to live in Empire where they are free from griefing.


They sure as hell chose the wrong place. Laughing

Delianora
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:34:00 - [57]
 

The connection is logically tenable--but it is a stretch... Here it is...

Years ago faction tower bpcs dropped from mag sites... I personally harvested about 200 of them. The caldari faction tower, for example, is the BEST moon mining tower in the game...

These towers use less fuel, more cpu, more grid, more shields... they are PREMIUM...

In the old eve before the "great reset" this winter, players got premium items from their "work"...

The new model of MMOs is that the games are generally "easy" and when they get hard, u get premium items from paying real life money---AKA micro tranactions...

Now for reasons that are not fairly described by CCP the drop rate on the towers is ZERO! Not a single one for months....

If ice is moved to null sec, AND high sec carebears want to run their pos's cheaply... They will have to buy premium pos's that DO NOT EXIST in the loot tables...

This means they can be added to the NEX store OR seeded again for some outrageous price--currently some are already worth 3-5 billion isk each.

If a large faction tower costs 10 plex or 3000 NEX points, then the connection is that you HAVE to buy one since you can't mine ice in high sec...

Now this idea is FLAWED since simply CCP can make hi sec pos's cost -50% fuel but who KNOWS if the NEXT crowd will get premium items in the store...

In good faith they could TURN ON the drop rate with a CLICK but have not.

EI Digin
Caldari
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.08.23 18:51:00 - [58]
 

And they would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you meddling kids!

nahtoh
Caldari
Brotherhood of The Saltire
EVE Animal Control
Posted - 2011.08.23 19:17:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: nahtoh on 23/08/2011 19:43:19
To bad its been kicking around as a idea for about 1 to 2 years though. In fact I thought it had been in progress for at least a year (no new ice and the totals of hi sec empire belts slowly depleting).

Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.08.23 19:23:00 - [60]
 

I just glanced at the title of this thread and thought it was:

THE REMOVAL OF ICE MINING IN HI-SEC IS PURELY TO FACILITATE SEX STORE


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