open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked How does adding features you dont like make whats already there worse?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.08.22 20:26:00 - [31]
 

All you ship spinners need to get into avatar spinning, pacing back and forth, watching TV or watching your ship spin itself.

Forum Worrier
Posted - 2011.08.22 20:30:00 - [32]
 

They ruined my game playing!

I can't spin my ship while not playing the game!

Cashcow Golden Goose
Posted - 2011.08.22 20:36:00 - [33]
 

Cipher Jones wants to be the new Tom Gerard now?

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.22 21:18:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
Cipher Jones wants to be the new Tom Gerard now?



Who doesn't? His trolls are better than most peoples serious threads and his serious threads are the epitome of good posting.


Caldari Citizen20110707
The Official Hyperdallas Fanclub
Posted - 2011.08.22 21:46:00 - [35]
 

I play 3 yrs now with 1yr 1 account 2 yrs 3 accounts. I have bought 4 chars and sold 1.

CCP made 15 x 36months + 5 x 20$ = $640,- on me. I am a director in a resonable big corp in a big alliance. I handle recruitent. I create a fun environment for other peope and step in when needed. I play this game because i enjoy the balances in it. I enjoy this game because there is alot of variation in it. I can go on big fleet when i want. I can FC fleets when i want. I can go solo roam, shoot rats or probe down wormholes for quick ganks. Its the variation that is fun.

As time passes the environment around me evolves with me. I influence my fellow capsuleer. Any balance that takes place that affects the environtment on a negative way (rock paper sisor disbalance) annoys me. Every balance than could have taken place but is neglected yet obvius present annoys me. Its not a secret the dev teams are working more on other games than EVE. I undersatnd business company wise u should not put all your money on 1 horse. I know alot of players that disagree with the balances or new features being emplement while there are so many imbalances. Ofc its not about how its balacned exacly, there always need to be a imbalance but not major onces.

The situation is now kinda like your house is on fire, the fireman has arrived and they are rescuing the neighbours cat out of the tree. It feels like they prefer kittens above burning houses. In the same time the firemen start selling ice cream form their firetruck.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.22 23:18:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Zleon Leigh
Forcing me into CQ greatly diminishes my game. Replacing the fairly impressive hanger with a blank door diminished my game.


Okay. So. I think I've identified what you're doing wrong. What you need to do is STOP STARING AT THE DOOR.

Turn left. You will see a ramp. walk to the top of the ramp.

There is your impressive hangar. It never went away, you just needed to HTFU.

You can thank me with ISK, PLEX or faction ships.

Sjugar
Posted - 2011.08.22 23:54:00 - [37]
 

The CQ has nothing to do with what Eve gameplay is about. It is something else. It's a totally different game they're trying to incorporate in Eve.

Also, while CQ is optional at the moment, if that stops in the future my gameplay will be impacted very much. I like to run 3 clients at once often with 2 of the characters docked. My computer can't handle that when the CQ interface is active.

Success of MMO's. One of the things that plays a big big part in the success of MMO titles is how taxing the game is on the hardware. You don't need high-end computer to play WoW nor do you need that to play Eve this is a very big reason for the success of those games.
An excellent game like Age of Conan which got high reviews when it came out flopped. Because it required high-end hardware.
My computer is by no means low-end but it has got trouble rendering 1 model in CQ smoothly.
With CQ Eve is tilting away from accessible hardware towards a game made for highend. This worries me.

And of people not being able to play the game? While I actually agree on this one, people with old graphic cards that only support shader model 2 could not play the game anymore. 2 in my corp had to stop playing because of Incarna.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.23 00:11:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Sjugar
The CQ has nothing to do with what Eve gameplay is about. It is something else. It's a totally different game they're trying to incorporate in Eve.

Also, while CQ is optional at the moment, if that stops in the future my gameplay will be impacted very much. I like to run 3 clients at once often with 2 of the characters docked. My computer can't handle that when the CQ interface is active.

Success of MMO's. One of the things that plays a big big part in the success of MMO titles is how taxing the game is on the hardware. You don't need high-end computer to play WoW nor do you need that to play Eve this is a very big reason for the success of those games.
An excellent game like Age of Conan which got high reviews when it came out flopped. Because it required high-end hardware.
My computer is by no means low-end but it has got trouble rendering 1 model in CQ smoothly.
With CQ Eve is tilting away from accessible hardware towards a game made for highend. This worries me.

And of people not being able to play the game? While I actually agree on this one, people with old graphic cards that only support shader model 2 could not play the game anymore. 2 in my corp had to stop playing because of Incarna.


Do you play WoW? It uses more resources than EvE. Just putting that out there.

I understand about the pixel shader, but its simply part of running legacy hardware. What about all the dx8 people that cant play?

Sjugar
Posted - 2011.08.23 00:21:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Do you play WoW? It uses more resources than EvE. Just putting that out there.
Yes and while it use more resources then Eve I still consider it light compared to other games. It is very much playable on older hardware just like Eve. It's a good point both games share.

Quote:
I understand about the pixel shader, but its simply part of running legacy hardware. What about all the dx8 people that cant play?
What part about "I actually agree on this one" don't you understand? It was just an example of people that literally aren't able to play after the introduction of Incarna. You asked for an example you got it.

Ofcourse you can't keep supporting old hardware forever.

But a jump from easily playable with lowend to barely playable with highend is something I wouldn't like.

Ed Sullivan
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:19:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones


Quote:
Since Incarna, Eve doesn't work on the computer in my bedroom.


I addressed that. Asking CCP to release something that has more advanced code will require more advanced hardware. This is true of all software developers.




So are you trying to somehow say my gameplay has not been effected? What about the other points raised? What about the failure to fix existing problems in order to shove a beta test for an upcoming game into a game we pay for? You can defend it all you want, but Incarna is not disliked because people just want to arbitrarily dislike something. There are many legitimate issues players have with it.

Bloutok
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:29:00 - [41]
 

I did not read anything but the post tittle.

It's not about what they did, it's about what they did not do because they were doing this.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:36:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Bloutok
I did not read anything but the post tittle.

It's not about what they did, it's about what they did not do because they were doing this.


What did they not do because of what? You couldn't be more ambiguous.

Prince Kobol
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:45:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Prince Kobol on 25/08/2011 17:53:07
Edited by: Prince Kobol on 25/08/2011 17:52:00
I understand were Cipher is coming from.

For me the biggest issue is that CQ does not directly effect the game play, it adds nothing of value in its current state.

It is then made worse when there are many more pressing issues that need to be addressed that DO effect game play directly.

To compound the issue these aren't small issues either, were talking about the core of what Eve is.

You have things such as

-Sov-Warfare,
-Massive RMT/botting in null sec by a number of Alliances,
-Blob warfare,
-Low sec being a waste land,
-It being next to impossible for small corps/alliances being able to get a foothold in null sec without being a pet of one of the few major alliances,
-CCP doing what ever the null sec alliances are telling them.
-Talking about nerfing Everything to try and force people into null showing they have no idea what the majority of people even think about null
-Very poor UI
-FW
-Ship Balance

CCP has have lost all credibility and are fast becoming the next SoE.

So when you have all these issues already there and then CCP spend god knows how many hundreds of man hours and hundreds of thousands of pounds, perhaps even more to develop a not even half finished update that will take years to complete and has no direct effect on game play, yeah people are going to get upset.

By doing this it then puts the spot light even more on these problems as people point to them as examples of how CCP could of spent the money and directed the man hours to.



Bloutok
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:50:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Bloutok
I did not read anything but the post tittle.

It's not about what they did, it's about what they did not do because they were doing this.


What did they not do because of what? You couldn't be more ambiguous.


Fix ALL the god damn bugs. Ship balance. Weapon balance. 0.0 even if i never go there. FW is not at it's best for sure. My personal favorite is how bad the GUI is, number 1 being the overview. Make the game more user friendly and i am not saying easier, like, having an overheat button that works, unless having to learn to use a relatively poor GUI is considered part of the skills players must acquire O_o ?

That's all that come to mind right now, but i bet in 5 minutes i will have remembered more stuff. And that is only what i see, i am sure others would add to that list.

VaMei
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:56:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
What I want to know is how that effects your gameplay?


CCP has a limited budget to support and improve EVE. When they spend that budget on changes that I don't want, and hire employees with skills to support features I don't want, there's less available to fix and improve aspects of the game I do want.

I have no illusions about CCP caring what I personally want from EVE, but they do need to care about what the broad playerbase enjoys and values in the game and expand on what has worked for years, rather than trying to rework the game into something that can include features that other games already offer.

If the Eve playerbase wanted to play those games, they'd already be doing it.
Players that want to play those other games, are already doing it. They are not going to move to EVE simply because CCP has added features that the game they already play has always had.

Komen
Gallente
Capital Enrichment Services
Posted - 2011.08.25 17:57:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Just asking. I understand that some people feel that Incarna is lacking the content they want, and is unfinished. I can totally agree with that. However, some people like "space barbie" as it is so eloquently put.

What I want to know is how that effects your gameplay?

Which is another problem altogether. I see people come in here and complain how the game is unplayable, yet still play. If the game sucks so bad why did you play up until Incarna? If the game is unplayable how do you play to begin with?

I have not played as many MMOS as everyone out there, but I have played 2 that are much "bigger" than eve by player numbers, GW and WoW.

GW released 4 expansions in 7 years and charged for them, and has micro and not so micro transactions. They used the money from GW to develop GW II and other games.

WoW has released 4 expansions in 7/8 years, charged for them, has MT, and funds other games with their income.

I just cant see playing EvE for multiple years and then leaving because "space barbie is stupid". Its like *****ing about Howard Stern. Turn him off if he bothers you. "Space Barbie" does nothing to affect your gameplay.

You cant have a state of the art (premiere even) avatar system, have the avatars walking about, and expect every PC to play them.

Remember when bioshock came out? I do. It was the first DX10 game, the graphics were revolutionary, and you had to have a new PC to run it. How do you expect CCP devs to get around that? Its amazing so many people here HATE WoW, but wish for magic.

So when people tell me they don't like the direction in which the development is going, I admire that. Its an honest answer to hard times. But when people tell me EvE got worse, and I play the game everyday, its rather hard to convince me.

I totally admit there are plenty of bugs in the game, and that CCP needs to work on them. They have fixed some and will continue to fix more. But please don't tell me that you were robbed of content. You got more than most other games, and all content cant be for everyone, sadly. I just want to hear an explanation for this phenomenon from those that claim it to be true.


I live in a wormhole, so the change barely affects me. However, a lot of in-station functionality got axed because of CQ (or 'The Dark Room' as I've taken to calling it) and, like many others, I dislike that CQ has been forced on us, as apparently gameplay is not the function, but rather an RMT store. It is also lore-breaking - a fact that seems trivial but, in fact, I rather tend to focus on.

You see, back in ye olden days, when CCP were but a young buck, Eve was losing money, and yet they kept it going. They took out loans, they borrowed money from their families, and no doubt some bank heists were perpetrated in the name of this game (I am only guessing on this last, no evidence, but I wouldn't put it past that early generation of CCPers).

They made it last until it became a profitable venture - never with big numbers, but comfortable, sustainable. And through and through, there was evidence that on the whole, Eve was a 'labor of love'. Something that they built because they cherished it, and not JUST as a revenue generating product.

THAT CCP would not have forced CQ down our throats, because it breaks the immersion of being a pod pilot, to those of us who embraced the existance. I am not against getting out of the pod; I am however rather baffled and dismayed that I should have to get out of the pod in order to dock, reload ammo, and then undock. Also, loading CQ takes forever on my low-mid range machine - I can run CQ without melting, but the heat fans are running full tilt and it's seriously over a minute from docking to entering the CQ.

So, it is Lore Breaking, it is Deeply Inconvenient, it is a Non-Optimized piece of code, and it exists to suck money from wallets faster than the steady stream from subscriptions.

That is why I don't like Incarna.


Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.25 18:22:00 - [47]
 

1. Cq is 100% optional. It is not forced down our throats. If you turn it off, everything but ship spinning remains. I have already conceded that some people are genuinely upset by the lack of ship spinning.

2. The overview is glitchy for me to this day. A bug fix is necessary but a new ui is not. If they add any code to the UI people will invariably complain that it robs performance.

3. People who are assuming how much CCP spends and how they handle their internal resources basing their opinions off of assumptions.

So number 3 is the interesting point IMHO. What makes some people assume that CCP is following some sort of financial plan that will result in the destruction of EvE? Because they did something you didn't approve of, or because they did something some other game that failed also did? Why do some people assume CCP has a viable business plan?

Also, if you are making assumptions about CCP's resources and how they are allocated, did you read the dev blogs? Do you agree or disagree with the information the devs have given on the subject?

Bloutok
Posted - 2011.08.25 18:39:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
1. Cq is 100% optional. It is not forced down our throats. If you turn it off, everything but ship spinning remains. I have already conceded that some people are genuinely upset by the lack of ship spinning.

2. The overview is glitchy for me to this day. A bug fix is necessary but a new ui is not. If they add any code to the UI people will invariably complain that it robs performance.


You ASSUME ( hey, you like that word ? ) it cannot be made better without cost to performance. And you seem to say it's not needing any fix while saying it is bugging up ???

Originally by: Cipher Jones
3. People who are assuming how much CCP spends and how they handle their internal resources basing their opinions off of assumptions.


I am a computer programmer, i have a very good idea of how much time is needed to do something. Do you ?

Originally by: Cipher Jones
So number 3 is the interesting point IMHO. What makes some people assume that CCP is following some sort of financial plan that will result in the destruction of EvE? Because they did something you didn't approve of, or because they did something some other game that failed also did? Why do some people assume CCP has a viable business plan?

Also, if you are making assumptions about CCP's resources and how they are allocated, did you read the dev blogs? Do you agree or disagree with the information the devs have given on the subject?


I could not careless about what or why CCP may or may not do things A,B,C ways..... I know for sure they could have used that time for something else.

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.08.25 18:42:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Bloutok
I could not careless about what or why CCP may or may not do things A,B,C ways..... I know for sure they could have used that time for something else.


Where were you the past few years when the forums were frequently smoldering over the fact that no one believed CCP would ever release avatars and that they were an evil vile company for not delivering on their promises?

...

Bloutok
Posted - 2011.08.25 18:49:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Mendolus
Originally by: Bloutok
I could not careless about what or why CCP may or may not do things A,B,C ways..... I know for sure they could have used that time for something else.


Where were you the past few years when the forums were frequently smoldering over the fact that no one believed CCP would ever release avatars and that they were an evil vile company for not delivering on their promises?

...


I almost never read forums, in my mind they are 99% drama and, hmmm. Ok, 100% drama. I can get much better drama IRL. So, why did i decided to read the forums once in a while? Because of Incarna. I would otherwise stick to my very happy, no forums at all, way of playing games.

It might also be because i have been playing for 2 years and **** hit the fan before i came here.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.25 18:55:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Bloutok
Originally by: Cipher Jones
1. Cq is 100% optional. It is not forced down our throats. If you turn it off, everything but ship spinning remains. I have already conceded that some people are genuinely upset by the lack of ship spinning.

2. The overview is glitchy for me to this day. A bug fix is necessary but a new ui is not. If they add any code to the UI people will invariably complain that it robs performance.


You ASSUME ( hey, you like that word ? ) it cannot be made better without cost to performance. And you seem to say it's not needing any fix while saying it is bugging up ???

Originally by: Cipher Jones
3. People who are assuming how much CCP spends and how they handle their internal resources basing their opinions off of assumptions.


I am a computer programmer, i have a very good idea of how much time is needed to do something. Do you ?

Originally by: Cipher Jones
So number 3 is the interesting point IMHO. What makes some people assume that CCP is following some sort of financial plan that will result in the destruction of EvE? Because they did something you didn't approve of, or because they did something some other game that failed also did? Why do some people assume CCP has a viable business plan?

Also, if you are making assumptions about CCP's resources and how they are allocated, did you read the dev blogs? Do you agree or disagree with the information the devs have given on the subject?


I could not careless about what or why CCP may or may not do things A,B,C ways..... I know for sure they could have used that time for something else.


I directly said it needs fixed and not replaced.

Everyone has to assume, including myself, the information they do not have. That's what an assumption is. I did not say it was good or bad, I asked for the reasoning behind peoples individual assumptions. There can be very good and very bad assumptions.

Knowing how the dev teams are divided and how they are allocating their resources currently is a prerequisite of "knowing for sure they could have used that time for something else."


Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.25 19:15:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
1. Cq is 100% optional. It is not forced down our throats. If you turn it off, everything but ship spinning remains. I have already conceded that some people are genuinely upset by the lack of ship spinning.
It is forced, CCP Zulu even said so himself. A picture of a door does not make it optional, I can still see the CQ. This 'none option', does not replace removed functionality and yes, functionality was removed with the hanger.

Zleon Leigh
Posted - 2011.08.25 19:30:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones


Also, if you are making assumptions about CCP's resources and how they are allocated, did you read the dev blogs? Do you agree or disagree with the information the devs have given on the subject?


Dev blogs are just marketing words, holding no promise or guarantees. Only results matter - and last efforts have been laughable and disappointing. Produce some results that improve present non-CQ game play and fix the bloody bugs and we wouldn't care where the resources are allocated.


Alex Sinai
Mining And Probing Specialists
Posted - 2011.08.25 19:35:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
1. Cq is 100% optional. It is not forced down our throats. If you turn it off, everything but ship spinning remains. I have already conceded that some people are genuinely upset by the lack of ship spinning.



I will not go into rest of reasons why we are upset about Incarna. Other players already did and will do.
I cannot agree with you that CQ is 100% optional. It is not at all. We have either CQ or ugly bmp with The Door. A thing used in sales. You offer some eye candy on one side and something obviously ugly on the other. And pretend it is an option. It is not.
Personally apart from Incarna being very much useless in terms of spaceships game additions/improvements/fixes I very much dislike agressive marketing that came with it. MT shop being forced on us with new currency flashy color in wallet and all the promoution associated with it. We never asked for that and made crystal clear we strongly oppose anything like that. And of course a year back devblogs announcements of "we do not have plans for MT shop". Who will ever believe devblogs again after this. Of course you can pretend there was no plans at that moment. It's language acrobatics.

The outrage about Incarna have many reasons. Without all of them together it is impossible to understand what caused it. But it is an indication for CCP that the path taken is wrong. It's not about people's natural resistance to change. It's about people's resistance to change they don't like and not intend to take.

Reilly Duvolle
Posted - 2011.08.25 19:46:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Reilly Duvolle on 25/08/2011 22:45:22
For me its simple. EVE is in many ways ****ed up. The backlog of features that need fixing and balancing is huge. Even CCP acknowledges this. And the result is a PCU is in the sub 40k range and dropping.

CCP have opted to use their dev resources to build a closet and a god damn nex store instead of keeping their game in good shape. I dont use CQ or NEX so i dont care about it. But to me EVE is ****ed up because CCP use their resources wrong. Personally I have gone from active 4 account user to barely logging in the last 3 months. I'm hoping for the winter expansion. CCP has ONE more shot at it, if they screw that one up, I fear that it is over.


Pages: 1 [2]

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only