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Muzztang
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:20:00 - [1]
 

AFK cloakers are a major problem for miners and haulers, because they like to sit in a system until an easy target presents itself and then kill it. I feel that if I have put up a TCU and an IHUB in a system and am paying alot of isk to CCP monthly for upgrades to the system and mainenance to the gates, I should be able to find any intruder in my system and remove them. Solution: Create a Decloaking Array that is anchored at a POS (kinda like the scanning array), but now I have to plug in a decloaking unit into the IHUB (so CCP can charge me more isk monthly, just like a jump bridge) and now I can turn on my decloaking array. My idea on how the decloaking array would work: Stays on constantly in the system and pings all ships in the system every 10 minutes, decloaking cloaked ones. Now the decloaked ones have a timeframe (say 3 minutes before they can cloak again, or whatever time would be fair for a skilled prober to try and find them, but the ping will decloak them 7 minutes after they recloak). My whole point here is that if my corporation / alliance is paying CCP big time isk monthly for systems, we should be able to keep out intruders anyway possible.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:25:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Muzztang
AFK cloakers are a major problem for miners and haulers, because they like to sit in a system until an easy target presents itself and then kill it. I feel that if I have put up a TCU and an IHUB in a system and am paying alot of isk to CCP monthly for upgrades to the system and mainenance to the gates, I should be able to find any intruder in my system and remove them. Solution: Create a Decloaking Array that is anchored at a POS (kinda like the scanning array), but now I have to plug in a decloaking unit into the IHUB (so CCP can charge me more isk monthly, just like a jump bridge) and now I can turn on my decloaking array. My idea on how the decloaking array would work: Stays on constantly in the system and pings all ships in the system every 10 minutes, decloaking cloaked ones. Now the decloaked ones have a timeframe (say 3 minutes before they can cloak again, or whatever time would be fair for a skilled prober to try and find them, but the ping will decloak them 7 minutes after they recloak). My whole point here is that if my corporation / alliance is paying CCP big time isk monthly for systems, we should be able to keep out intruders anyway possible.


You actually think you "own" the system? lol

Muzztang
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:32:00 - [3]
 

Maybe "own" wasn't the correct word, but when you put up a TCU, IHUB, Outpost, etc... in a system and are now having to pay CCP every 15 days, I feel that you "own" the system until someone wants to come and try and take it away.

Muzztang
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:37:00 - [4]
 

Here is a previous post I saw about AFK Cloakers:

"Give the cloak a 2 hour, non-repeatable cycle time. You want to hunt in a covert ship? Do some actual hunting then instead of logging in, cloaking, then going to work.
Introduce a new tech 2 probe launcher with advanced probes, capable of indicating the presence of cloaked ships, in addition to scanning down uncloaked ships. (note I say *indicating*, not scanning down. This would be in conjunction with cloakers being removed from local).
Provide a new strategic index upgrade that gives de-activates any cloaking devices on any ships within a 250km radius every 1 hour(based on control tower fuel tick). This would be a pos module, which requires the sov upgrade, and costs money per day to keep active (limited in use, but provides *some* protection to jump bridge users, without being overpowered.

These are based on the fact that while I find cloaky afkers annoying when I need to rat, I do enjoy covert ships, and would hate to see them ruined by a blanket nerf. People also need to get used to the idea that Nullsec is LAWLESS SPACE, and so, is actually dangerous and deadly by design."

I agree with the above statements, I enjoy cloaky ships and don't want a blanket nerf on them but for the ones that log on, goto work, and dont play, I feel you should be able to hunt them down somehow.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:42:00 - [5]
 

The only real problem with afk cloakers is that people are chicken **** and afk cloakers prey on their fears. It's amazing how someone in a magnate, while at work, can shut down an entire system for a day.

Someone AFK cloaking is only a problem if you let them be. Use DScan. Stay at your computer while running ops. Use a buddy. You have the guys name... Google his arse, see if he blogs. We had a stealth bomber in our wormhole, I caught his name during a failed attempt on my mighty bestower. Google turned up a blog, got plenty of intel needed to determine his hours online, etc. He left a few days later empty handed.

They're only a problem if you do nothing and let them be a problem. We don't need new gimmicks, new modules, nerfs, buffs, fuels... just brains and balls.

Jiska Ensa
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:47:00 - [6]
 

Why have there been so many AFK cloaker whines lately? Is it really that fun?

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.18 23:13:00 - [7]
 

Quote:
AFK cloakers are a major problem for miners


.... no, they are not. AFK anybody in the game is a threat to no one. Again, a thinly veiled attack on cloaks through the strawman of afk cloaking as a "danger".

It's not the afk that are the problem for miners.. the danger is the cloaked that are not afk. Here's my one and only answer: remove cloakers from local.. you'll remove the "dangerous" afk threat from your eyeballs and it does two other important things. 1. makes cloaking what it should be, true stealth.. and 2. puts the shoe on the other foot where cloaked gankers have to be very wary that there are not unseen support waiting to gank them when they decloak.


Jack Tronic
Posted - 2011.08.18 23:21:00 - [8]
 

Lulz, guess what bro, I am going to go sit an eccmed tengu and laugh as your skilled probers fail to probe it out sitting in deadspace.

Draelos
Posted - 2011.08.18 23:55:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Jack Tronic
Lulz, guess what bro, I am going to go sit an eccmed tengu and laugh as your skilled probers fail to probe it out sitting in deadspace.


You wouldn't want to go afk though, as while it may be hard, it would be possible to scan you out.

Nezumiiro Noneko
Posted - 2011.08.18 23:55:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Jiska Ensa
Why have there been so many AFK cloaker whines lately? Is it really that fun?


troll/whine threads come in waves....last week was training sp's...this weeks its this.

Stay tuned...we are due for fix hybrids (actually legit threads sometimes).


And hell I'd almost pay to see a nice t2 bpo thread. Ain't seen that troll bait for a while...kind of miss it lol. that's about due actually...



Draelos
Posted - 2011.08.18 23:58:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Nezumiiro Noneko
Originally by: Jiska Ensa
Why have there been so many AFK cloaker whines lately? Is it really that fun?


troll/whine threads come in waves....last week was training sp's...this weeks its this.

Stay tuned...we are due for fix hybrids (actually legit threads sometimes).


And hell I'd almost pay to see a nice t2 bpo thread. Ain't seen that troll bait for a while...kind of miss it lol. that's about due actually...





I want to see a t2 bpo thread!

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2011.08.19 00:16:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Muzztang
AFK cloakers are a major problem for miners and haulers, because they like to sit in a system until an easy target presents itself and then kill it.


How in the hell is someone who is AWAY FROM KEYBOARD going to magically kill a target when they are AWAY FROM KEYBOARD???

The OP is either a troll or a massive idiot!


Russell Casey
Posted - 2011.08.19 02:03:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Russell Casey on 19/08/2011 02:06:25
Edited by: Russell Casey on 19/08/2011 02:05:10
Edited by: Russell Casey on 19/08/2011 02:04:48
Every time I see a thread about AFK cloakers I think about Starcraft for some reason, probably because the proposed solution always comes down to:

1) Make cloaks run out of juice or be detectable by scanners

2) Invent a POS structure that magically shows all the cloaked baddies.

Then again, control tower=pylon and dreadnaughts do have a siege mode.Rolling Eyes

Diablo Ex
Caldari
The Devil's Reject's
Posted - 2011.08.19 04:57:00 - [14]
 

It's threads like this that makes my want to put my Dramiel in one of your precious nullsec systems, cap stable and burning MWD at 10km/s in a deep safe, and give you the middle finger in local as I go AFK for a few hours.

Even if you could probe it down, it would be off grid before you could warp there...

ROFL.... and it would still be in Local shutting your system down.

Josef Huffenpuff
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.19 11:21:00 - [15]
 

FFS, not this bl**dy topic AGAIN Rolling Eyes


Its Zero F'ing Zero.

Its not meant to be safe

Deal with it.

Killer Gandry
Caldari
Shadow of the Pain
Posted - 2011.08.19 12:51:00 - [16]
 

Cloaking is nothing else than changing the refraction of light on an object.
This however doesn't mean the object is gone. It means the light doesn't reflect it's countours back as people are used.

However EVE being a highly evolved and technical place should understand the simple physics behind this and a simple counter to this would be a pulse that reflects the mass of the cloaked object.

It's easy enough implemented to make this pulse range limited and skill dependant.
Next to being the terror of systems in a cloak you also have a new profession.
Terror of afk cloakers.

Thoughts?

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.19 13:07:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Killer Gandry
Cloaking is nothing else than changing the refraction of light on an object.
This however doesn't mean the object is gone. It means the light doesn't reflect it's countours back as people are used.

However EVE being a highly evolved and technical place should understand the simple physics behind this and a simple counter to this would be a pulse that reflects the mass of the cloaked object.

It's easy enough implemented to make this pulse range limited and skill dependant.
Next to being the terror of systems in a cloak you also have a new profession.
Terror of afk cloakers.

Thoughts?



I don't think DScan works by visually looking for ships up to 14AU out...

Killer Gandry
Caldari
Shadow of the Pain
Posted - 2011.08.19 14:31:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Ingvar Angst
I don't think DScan works by visually looking for ships up to 14AU out...


Then there we have the flaw in the DScan.

What kind of pulse does it emit to detect objects far out. And what kind of counter does a cloak use to not get detected.
Sound isn't a viable option because there is no sound in space.

Certain waves can travel through space but will deteriorate over time and distance. So why isn't it possible to make some frequancy optional to counter cloaked objects to a certain limited distance due to massive deterioration and a skill to modulate the frequency more to increase the range just a tad more.

Set a certain distance limit for max skill and voila.

Not a module to be put on a stationary object but needs to be fitted on a ship. Also has a random process to follow so the automation by macro useage would become hard or impossible to maintain.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.19 14:43:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 19/08/2011 14:43:59
Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 19/08/2011 14:43:03
I don't think I actually like this idea, but what about combat probes specifically designed to scan down cloaked vessels only? You'd need an expanded launcher, of course, also should require maxed skills in addition to an additional skill, and it should be freaking hard with small initial starting radii, say a max. of 4AU. It gives a chance to find an afk cloaker, but one with an intelligent safe would be really hard to nail down, as would one that periodically moves his safes to areas he knows were recently scanned.

In exchange for a larger radius, 8 to 16Au, I could see cloaking also blocking your transponder signal going outbound so you disappear from local...

Edit: By combat only, uncloaked ships would not be detected by these probes... you're looking for the wrong signals.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.19 14:48:00 - [20]
 

All these threads are kinda moot at the moment, until we know what intel system CCP are designing and what they intend to do with local.

Killer Gandry
Caldari
Shadow of the Pain
Posted - 2011.08.19 16:30:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Mag's
All these threads are kinda moot at the moment, until we know what intel system CCP are designing and what they intend to do with local.


Au Contraire mon ami.

This is the Features and IDEAs section of the EVE forums.
At the moment my counterpart and me are bouncing off idea's off of eachother.
CCP sometimes actually lookes here to check for idea's from playerbase which have some viable option of being implemented in the game.


Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Posted - 2011.08.19 18:27:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Messoroz on 19/08/2011 18:27:00
Originally by: Draelos
Originally by: Jack Tronic
Lulz, guess what bro, I am going to go sit an eccmed tengu and laugh as your skilled probers fail to probe it out sitting in deadspace.


You wouldn't want to go afk though, as while it may be hard, it would be possible to scan you out.


It requires Virtue implants(ABSOLUTELY required and more expensive than a t3), 6 sisters and level 4 covert ops + level 5 astrometrics rangefinding + 2 scan rigs at a minimum. (This was tested by us wormholers :P)

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.19 22:38:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Killer Gandry
Originally by: Mag's
All these threads are kinda moot at the moment, until we know what intel system CCP are designing and what they intend to do with local.


Au Contraire mon ami.

This is the Features and IDEAs section of the EVE forums.
At the moment my counterpart and me are bouncing off idea's off of eachother.
CCP sometimes actually lookes here to check for idea's from playerbase which have some viable option of being implemented in the game.


Yea you're right, these ideas have never been seen before and the future of local has no bearing on this thread.

Carry on.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.08.20 11:56:00 - [24]
 

POS decloaking array? I didn't know you could cloak a POS, I've never seen a cloaked POS on overview.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.08.20 12:45:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Breaker77
The OP is either a troll or a massive idiot!


yes

D'Leh Mannuck
Posted - 2011.08.20 14:54:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Mag's
Yea you're right, these ideas have never been seen before and the future of local has no bearing on this thread.

Carry on.


Yes you are right, we should just lay on our backs with our paws upright in the air.
Why even bother to keep a discussion of any form going.

Lemme guess. You are one of the cannonfodder types of your alliance. No brain needed because someone else will tell you where to go and what to do.
Now shoo shoo off you go my little Lemming and let those who still prefer to use their brains bounce off idea's onto eachother.

Killer Gandry
Caldari
Shadow of the Pain
Posted - 2011.08.20 14:56:00 - [27]
 

I would prefer to stick to the ideas than making this number 12949587293 flamethread. Thank you.


Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.08.20 15:04:00 - [28]
 

the cloak is not broke, so no need of ideas.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.20 16:36:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: D'Leh Mannuck
Originally by: Mag's
Yea you're right, these ideas have never been seen before and the future of local has no bearing on this thread.

Carry on.


Yes you are right, we should just lay on our backs with our paws upright in the air.
Why even bother to keep a discussion of any form going.

Lemme guess. You are one of the cannonfodder types of your alliance. No brain needed because someone else will tell you where to go and what to do.
Now shoo shoo off you go my little Lemming and let those who still prefer to use their brains bounce off idea's onto eachother.

Was I being too subtle?

Maybe paws and brains, could be a dangerous combination. Who knows, but it sounds fascinating.

I'm actually starting to like this thread.

Dorian Wylde
Posted - 2011.08.20 17:10:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Jiska Ensa
Why have there been so many AFK cloaker whines lately? Is it really that fun?


Griefing people too stupid to understand what AFK means? That's absolutely fun. Watching an entire corp dock up, safe up because of one non-blue in local is absolutely hilarious. Costing idiots billions of isk with almost no input is quite a bit of fun, if you ask me.

Fix the real problem, remove local. Cloaking is fine.


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