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Jackson Millenius
Posted - 2011.08.18 17:34:00 - [1]
 

Whatcha gonna do?

Whatcha gonna do when they warp on you? YARRRR!!




P.s. I'm currently ecstatic about the whole null sec local nerf

Joe SMASH
You Got A Purty Mouth
Posted - 2011.08.18 17:38:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Jackson Millenius
I'm currently ecstatic about the whole null sec local nerf


[citation needed]

Jackson Millenius
Posted - 2011.08.18 17:44:00 - [3]
 

Read Greyscales dev blog.


Pay close attention to the concepts of the intel section.

Security in null sec will require more advanced methods of intel, guard duty/ gate camps, and patrols because of a nerfed local chat.

Joe SMASH
You Got A Purty Mouth
Posted - 2011.08.18 17:56:00 - [4]
 

Quote:


Reward time, localism, thought, investment, teamwork

Time - gathering intelligence should not be quick. People who take the time to really do their homework should be rewarded.
Localism - there should be a clear advantage to specializing in a particular area, allowing players to build up local knowledge and use it against their enemies.
Thought - intel-gathering should not be a rote activity, it should require people to make plans and then adjust them as they go.
Investment - those who are willing to make investments in intel-gathering, either in static or mobile tools, should be rewarded, as this further encourages specialization.
Teamwork - working together should be more efficient than working separately, because getting people to interact always brings value of one sort or another.
Pervasive concern

Intel should not be a thing that you think about occasionally, or that can be worked on a bit and then checked off on a list as "done". Decision-makers should always be thinking about their intel and how up-to-date it is. This ensures that intel-gathering is a useful specialization, and further implies that there are lots of decisions that other players could be making that will disrupt your plans. A game that requires constantly updating intelligence for optimal gameplay is a game where there's a lot going on and a lot of interesting decisions to be made.

Strong tools for collecting and sharing
To support the other goals here, tools should be available for collecting and sharing intel that minimize the amount of rote work, particularly documentation, that players need to engage in. This frees up their attention for collaboration, analysis and decision-making.

Moving target

New information should become old information on the shortest delay sensible for a given thing. This serves to make intel an ongoing concern and a regular occupation, gives people space to take action before their opponents are ready for it, and adds an edge of urgency to decision-making. People should not be asking if their intel is up-to-date, they should be asking how out-of-date it is.

Active components

Intelligence-gathering should not be a purely passive occupation. There should be plenty of opportunities for gatherers to take a more active stance, either to take shortcuts in gathering the intel, or to act on it right away and sabotage or otherwise mess with the enemy's stuff. There should though always be the risk of getting caught, and having your patrol cut short on top of the usual drawbacks of eg getting shot. This serves to make intel-gathering a little more interesting and engaging.


I am not seeing any reference specifically to a nerfed local chat. But I like to make wild speculations to on the dev blog. So I would like to say, "I can't wait for the uber-capital mining ship coming to support all industry in null sec!" See, speculating is fun! Rolling Eyes

Jackson Millenius
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:01:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Joe SMASH
Quote:


Reward time, localism, thought, investment, teamwork

Time - gathering intelligence should not be quick. People who take the time to really do their homework should be rewarded.
Localism - there should be a clear advantage to specializing in a particular area, allowing players to build up local knowledge and use it against their enemies.
Thought - intel-gathering should not be a rote activity, it should require people to make plans and then adjust them as they go.
Investment - those who are willing to make investments in intel-gathering, either in static or mobile tools, should be rewarded, as this further encourages specialization.
Teamwork - working together should be more efficient than working separately, because getting people to interact always brings value of one sort or another.
Pervasive concern

Intel should not be a thing that you think about occasionally, or that can be worked on a bit and then checked off on a list as "done". Decision-makers should always be thinking about their intel and how up-to-date it is. This ensures that intel-gathering is a useful specialization, and further implies that there are lots of decisions that other players could be making that will disrupt your plans. A game that requires constantly updating intelligence for optimal gameplay is a game where there's a lot going on and a lot of interesting decisions to be made.

Strong tools for collecting and sharing
To support the other goals here, tools should be available for collecting and sharing intel that minimize the amount of rote work, particularly documentation, that players need to engage in. This frees up their attention for collaboration, analysis and decision-making.

Moving target

New information should become old information on the shortest delay sensible for a given thing. This serves to make intel an ongoing concern and a regular occupation, gives people space to take action before their opponents are ready for it, and adds an edge of urgency to decision-making. People should not be asking if their intel is up-to-date, they should be asking how out-of-date it is.

Active components

Intelligence-gathering should not be a purely passive occupation. There should be plenty of opportunities for gatherers to take a more active stance, either to take shortcuts in gathering the intel, or to act on it right away and sabotage or otherwise mess with the enemy's stuff. There should though always be the risk of getting caught, and having your patrol cut short on top of the usual drawbacks of eg getting shot. This serves to make intel-gathering a little more interesting and engaging.


I am not seeing any reference specifically to a nerfed local chat. But I like to make wild speculations to on the dev blog. So I would like to say, "I can't wait for the uber-capital mining ship coming to support all industry in null sec!" See, speculating is fun! Rolling Eyes



Read between the lines.

I'll give you this 1 for free: "gathering intelligence should not be quick"

If anything check the feedback threads. lol

Joe SMASH
You Got A Purty Mouth
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:08:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Jackson Millenius
Read between the lines.

I'll give you this 1 for free: "gathering intelligence should not be quick"

If anything check the feedback threads. lol


I could use the same between the lines reading and come up with a nerf to d-scan to no longer show ship types. Just because YOU think it means nerf to local, doesn't actually mean it's coming. Personally, I would love to see local become a sov upgrade. Make alliances pay for the use of real-time local. However, it does not mean I go shouting off the rooftops and making new forum threads about it.

Jackson Millenius
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:17:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Joe SMASH
Originally by: Jackson Millenius
Read between the lines.

I'll give you this 1 for free: "gathering intelligence should not be quick"

If anything check the feedback threads. lol


I could use the same between the lines reading and come up with a nerf to d-scan to no longer show ship types. Just because YOU think it means nerf to local, doesn't actually mean it's coming. Personally, I would love to see local become a sov upgrade. Make alliances pay for the use of real-time local. However, it does not mean I go shouting off the rooftops and making new forum threads about it.


Lol sorry dad.


You're entitled to believe what you want. I was just directing this thread at the botters who won't be seeing me warp on them.Very Happy

Joe SMASH
You Got A Purty Mouth
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:33:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Jackson Millenius
Originally by: Joe SMASH
Originally by: Jackson Millenius
Read between the lines.

I'll give you this 1 for free: "gathering intelligence should not be quick"

If anything check the feedback threads. lol


I could use the same between the lines reading and come up with a nerf to d-scan to no longer show ship types. Just because YOU think it means nerf to local, doesn't actually mean it's coming. Personally, I would love to see local become a sov upgrade. Make alliances pay for the use of real-time local. However, it does not mean I go shouting off the rooftops and making new forum threads about it.


Lol sorry dad.


You're entitled to believe what you want. I was just directing this thread at the botters who won't be seeing me warp on them.Very Happy


Go to your room and don't come down until you have made 100M in ransoms. YARRRR!!

T'Laar Bok
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:46:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Joe SMASH
I can't wait for the uber-capital mining ship coming to support all industry in null sec!


You must be referring to the Orca style vessel thats twice the size and can fit six strip miners.

But I haven't read anything saying its restricted to null sec.

Originally by: Joe SMASH
speculating is fun!


It is!


Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:54:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Jackson Millenius
I'll give you this 1 for free: "gathering intelligence should not be quick"

If anything check the feedback threads. lol


Originally by: CCP Greyscale
As a general observation, we know local needs a look at, ..., but those aren't the problems we're trying to solve


You said to read the feedback thread?

Hicksimus
Gallente
Mom's Friendly Spaceship Company
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:58:00 - [11]
 

Removing local would be a very very nice feature but on the same note if they do that they should remove permanent cloaking because covert **** would be supremely overpowered. That and cloaky cynabal fleets with their damn giant scan rez....

Ceelah
Posted - 2011.08.19 00:55:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Ceelah on 19/08/2011 00:55:12
Here's an idea... What if CCP just takes the Russian subscribers and transfers their accounts to the SERENITY server? Then they can hide inside their nullsec space, happily bot, and then sh*t bricks when the Chinese hordes start bashing themselves against their borders in game.

Got a feeling that would take a huge bite out of the BOT world in TRANQUILITY.

Donald MacRury
Gallente
LankTech
Posted - 2011.08.19 01:12:00 - [13]
 

Where are all these bots people talk about in 0.0?

If they were botting like mad out there, why is the industry index in most 0.0 regions so low?

Russell Casey
Posted - 2011.08.19 01:53:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Russell Casey on 19/08/2011 01:53:35
Originally by: Jackson Millenius
Read Greyscales dev blog.


Pay close attention to the concepts of the intel section.

Security in null sec will require more advanced methods of intel, guard duty/ gate camps, and patrols because of a nerfed local chat.


Huh, people will have to actually protect their space, and in a manner besides the current situation of: "NEUT GANG SPOTTED FIVE SYSTEMS OVER, DOCK THE BOTS AND RATTERS THEN RELEASE THE BLOB!

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.08.19 01:59:00 - [15]
 

Those who would like delayed local in 0.0 need to post in this thread (Nullsec design goals feedback: Intel) and try and convince CCP Greyscale that this was actually what he meant with his Intel design goals.

Good luck.

Monstress
Posted - 2011.08.19 03:29:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Donald MacRury
Where are all these bots people talk about in 0.0?

If they were botting like mad out there, why is the industry index in most 0.0 regions so low?


Ratting bots are more prevalent than mining bots, which is why you'll notice that the military index is usually high. See Drone Regions as an example.

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2011.08.19 04:40:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Taedrin on 19/08/2011 04:40:11
Originally by: Joe SMASH
Quote:


Reward time, localism, thought, investment, teamwork

Time - gathering intelligence should not be quick. People who take the time to really do their homework should be rewarded.
Localism - there should be a clear advantage to specializing in a particular area, allowing players to build up local knowledge and use it against their enemies.
Thought - intel-gathering should not be a rote activity, it should require people to make plans and then adjust them as they go.
Investment - those who are willing to make investments in intel-gathering, either in static or mobile tools, should be rewarded, as this further encourages specialization.
Teamwork - working together should be more efficient than working separately, because getting people to interact always brings value of one sort or another.
Pervasive concern

Intel should not be a thing that you think about occasionally, or that can be worked on a bit and then checked off on a list as "done". Decision-makers should always be thinking about their intel and how up-to-date it is. This ensures that intel-gathering is a useful specialization, and further implies that there are lots of decisions that other players could be making that will disrupt your plans. A game that requires constantly updating intelligence for optimal gameplay is a game where there's a lot going on and a lot of interesting decisions to be made.

Strong tools for collecting and sharing
To support the other goals here, tools should be available for collecting and sharing intel that minimize the amount of rote work, particularly documentation, that players need to engage in. This frees up their attention for collaboration, analysis and decision-making.

Moving target

New information should become old information on the shortest delay sensible for a given thing. This serves to make intel an ongoing concern and a regular occupation, gives people space to take action before their opponents are ready for it, and adds an edge of urgency to decision-making. People should not be asking if their intel is up-to-date, they should be asking how out-of-date it is.

Active components

Intelligence-gathering should not be a purely passive occupation. There should be plenty of opportunities for gatherers to take a more active stance, either to take shortcuts in gathering the intel, or to act on it right away and sabotage or otherwise mess with the enemy's stuff. There should though always be the risk of getting caught, and having your patrol cut short on top of the usual drawbacks of eg getting shot. This serves to make intel-gathering a little more interesting and engaging.


I am not seeing any reference specifically to a nerfed local chat. But I like to make wild speculations to on the dev blog. So I would like to say, "I can't wait for the uber-capital mining ship coming to support all industry in null sec!" See, speculating is fun! Rolling Eyes


CCP has always said that local chat was never intended to be the intelligence gathering tool it has become. Regardless, CCP said that they will not nerf local until they can replace it with a robust intelligence gathering tool which is designed (and balanced) for the purpose.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.08.19 05:46:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Jackson Millenius
Read Greyscales dev blog.
Pay close attention to the concepts of the intel section.

Pay close attention to the part that says:
Quote:
Also, to repeat a thing from earlier in big letters, THIS WILL ALL TAKE A LONG-ASS TIME TO HAPPEN. Some of it will be changed or dropped before it ever gets implemented. Some of it will never happen. This is a roadmap, not a production schedule.

Twisted Evil

Tuggboat
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.19 09:14:00 - [19]
 

Right now Bots logoff if local goes red or active. In essence we could all shut them down just by afk cloaking. After the local adjustment, instead of disrupting economics by planting cheap safe AFK cloakers, you have to bring in the big bucks and hunt them down and get killed by their defenders... possibly.

Someday before the local nerf, I'd like to see an organized mass afk cloaking campaign of bot systems either by us or even CCP.



 

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