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blankseplocked lower sec doesn't match human nature...
 
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Dub Step
Minmatar
Death To Everyone But Us
Posted - 2011.08.18 15:32:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Mendolus
But you still would not give up your skillpoints would you? Why not, they have no value, correct?

What reason would I have for 'giving them up'? and what has it got to do with encouraging people to visit low sec?

I actually enjoy rolling new characters and frequently have higher skilled characters unsubbed because I don't have use for them. No I am not going to say I will happily give up my skillpoints because you haven't given me any reason as to why I need to.

Furthermore if you want to talk about value, whats the value of a ****ty character that never gets to use their ISK or skillpoints for anything but farming more isk from mindless PVE content?

Once again you are dragging a topic off into some random direction by being completely clueless.

Jenn aSide
Posted - 2011.08.18 15:34:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Velicitia
see :
The New World
The American Frontier
The Wild West


Essentially, nullsec


True, but none of those areas STAYED that way, and like the op suggests, people went there in the 1st place because they got some major things out of it, riches, land, freedom ect.

The op is correct in the observation that most people crave order and security as opposed to anarchy.

I think it's a good point that human nature rules all, even in a game, which is why people in an internet spaceship game where you can't REALLY die (just lose all your stuff, for death to be real in eve, getting podded would have to cancel and ban your subscription lol).

I'm a null sec player, dear god I hate empire and only have alts their for selling stuff in jita and hauling crap, but I totally get where the op is coming from. It's simpyltrue that (as an exteme example) if you got rid of high sec and made all of eve 0.0, the game (and probably ccp) would die very quickly.

Leeroy McJenkins
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.18 15:37:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Jenn aSide

The op is correct in the observation that most people crave order and security as opposed to anarchy.



It could be argued that the internet spaceship empires that inhabit nullsec provide a degree of order and security. Wink

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.08.18 15:38:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Mendolus on 18/08/2011 15:39:37
Originally by: Dub Step
Nothing means anything.


So why are you here on the forums? Entertainment is only entertainment if it means something, i.e. how can you find something entertaining if you do not value being entertained?

I never said there is value in a character that earns money for the sake of money, that is not to say that others will clearly agree with the idea that there is no value in it.

Are you saying that people who find satisfactory entertainment in just running missions a few days a week and doing nothing else with their subscription are somehow not as capable of rational thought or judgement as the rest of us?

If they enjoy running missions, and are not interested in anything else, regardless of the risks and rewards, who are we to tell them otherwise?

Are you saying their opinions are wrong?

Jenn aSide
Posted - 2011.08.18 15:41:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Saliss Aya
I was just bringing up human nature and how it fits a pattern in this game. Call it trolling or what ever, but it's a factor that won't go away. The average person likes to feel safe in their life. Be it an illusion or not. That could have a bearing on why low sec isn't teaming with people.

Human nature is pretty complex stuff, wars, etc, are all started by groups who think they are going to win and have something to gain to make their own lives better, usually resources. They already feel secure. You don't see groups who perceive themselves as weak starting a war. They don't see it in their best interest. Thus is born diplomacy.


Don't mind the no brain neckbeards that don't know how to think critically like you do (as evidenced by the fact that you said "I don't know why people play the game the way they do", which is more mature and thoughtful than most of these forum goers are capable of).

Personally, I think you are on to something. It's an easy cop out to call them cowards and such, but I think the people doing the name calling can't internalize the idea that not everyone is like them and so doesn't want the same things.

I have no problem with high sec folks, although I'd love to see more folks in null fighting with and against me.

Jenn aSide
Posted - 2011.08.18 15:43:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins
Originally by: Jenn aSide

The op is correct in the observation that most people crave order and security as opposed to anarchy.



It could be argued that the internet spaceship empires that inhabit nullsec provide a degree of order and security. Wink


Of course they do, which is , I'd suggest, why they exist. I love being able to rat on my alt to my hearts content because of our intel channels lol.


Maam
Posted - 2011.08.18 15:58:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Saliss Aya
Calling people names rarely brings about change. Seeking first to understand then to be understood is a wise choice of action.


An excellent thread which generally would warrant intelligent discussion.

However trying to bring that kind of discussion here is often like going into the forest and arguing with trees. Angry trees.

Fun to begin with but quickly feels just mental and pointless.

Timeto Die
Posted - 2011.08.18 16:05:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Velicitia
see :
The New World
The American Frontier
The Wild West

Essentially, nullsec Cool



Doesn't everything gravitate from chaos towards order though?

The New World became The American Frontier which became The Wild West which become "now".

If anything would make Eve run parallels into the real world (I know it is a game, but stay with me here):

High sec dwellers (*) should need to pay X billions of ISK into a Concord Tax fund monthly. CCP set the amount, like our governments do.

If the fund is rich, Concord Cops put down the doughnuts and press into 0.4, 0.3 etc. to bring order back.
If the fund is not maintained, the Concord Cops go and get other jobs, and disorder creeps up into 0.5, 0.6 ...

(*) Of which I am one.

Shadow Lord77
Posted - 2011.08.18 16:06:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Shadow Lord77 on 18/08/2011 16:08:20
Edited by: Shadow Lord77 on 18/08/2011 16:07:59
Edited by: Shadow Lord77 on 18/08/2011 16:07:50
Yeah. We can cause people to go to low-sec by ore incentives.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.18 16:27:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Timeto Die
Originally by: Velicitia
see :
The New World
The American Frontier
The Wild West

Essentially, nullsec Cool



Doesn't everything gravitate from chaos towards order though?



Yes. However my point was that people *DO* really go to those scary, lawless areas before they're made orderly.

Just happens that in EVE, border patrol shoots first and asks questions later....

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
Posted - 2011.08.18 16:37:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Saliss Aya
Hi all,
...
If you want to make null sec more populated then you are going to have to pander to human nature, like it or not. It needs to become more secure, or the riches need to be soo rich as to reduce the penalty of death to a minor inconvience, which then might mess with the economy... as the world turns I guess.




This part is already true. Dying is but an inconvenience in Eve.

It costs you some isk to buy a new clone, and maybe you can figure in the cost of the ship you lost.

Avg clone cost: 10M
Avg drake cost: 50M

Take that drake and rat in 0.0 for 2 hours and you're covered. The rewards ARE great, and that's just bottom of the barrel for easy pickings in the belts or anoms.

Aaron Aardvark
Amarr
Posted - 2011.08.18 16:41:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Saliss Aya

I know all over the world people leave areas of chaos and lawlessness and move to areas where there is security, law and order - the world is a sandbox with the ultimate rules, there is no insurance if you are killed, you are gone. In fact it is a basic human need to have security in one's life.

Societies all over the world do this, they set up fairness, law, order, rules, etc. So is it any wonder that when the average player logs on, wants to relax and enjoy the game that they work months or even years on that they also want this same social order in the game? This is a sandbox game, there are harsh penaties for dying. It is not a theme box where death means running back to where to you just where with no real death penalty. People gravitate towards what is secure in a harsh environment, especially if no one is making them play or pay a sub.

As much as people love to bash carebears, the carebear movement is basically survival instincts kicking in that all people have, especially in a sand box game, which might not be so sandboxy here once new rules kick in.

If you want to make null sec more populated then you are going to have to pander to human nature, like it or not. It needs to become more secure, or the riches need to be soo rich as to reduce the penalty of death to a minor inconvience, which then might mess with the economy... as the world turns I guess.

Try to force people into an environment where they don't feel secure and the penalties are too harsh and they will leave and still not go. That my friends is human nature. Maslows basic hierarchy of basic human needs. It is why extreme social groups in RL are always a small minority and larger groups are always more laid back and relaxed.

That was my two cents.



lol you just compared Eve to real life. GTFO.

Judge Ment
BOOM BOOM POW
Posted - 2011.08.18 16:49:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Shadow Lord77
Edited by: Shadow Lord77 on 18/08/2011 16:08:20
Edited by: Shadow Lord77 on 18/08/2011 16:07:59
Edited by: Shadow Lord77 on 18/08/2011 16:07:50
Yeah. We can cause people to go to low-sec by ore incentives.


im willing to bet all my isk, people will not risk mining in low sec for reward

1.) you would have to be pirate to want this to be true
2.) people would be loosing more ships then ore would pay for
3.) see one and two
4.) id have to go solo and make a laughable KILLBOARD

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.18 17:21:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Velicitia
see :
The New World
The American Frontier
The Wild West


Essentially, nullsec Cool

Lowsec is a little ****ed though... it's essentially the "bad part" of empire...


Absolutely perfect post to support the OP, as those places all converted to "hisec".

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2011.08.18 17:31:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Mutnin on 18/08/2011 17:36:04

Originally by: Saliss Aya
Those are excellent examples of how people brought law and order into areas as they advanced and the populations increased. They are also excellent examples of how the populations remained low until this happened.

The gold rush was another excellent example, the RCMP and the military were both brought in almost as soon as towns opened up. Business demanded it.



Yet those silly cow boys used to go rob banks and have shoot outs. They still do that today, maybe not just cow boys though and yea there are also still real life pirates and mass murderers whom kill people just because they can.

Just because there is so called security in RL as an example doesn't mean you wont get robbed or killed. You aren't even safe in RL while you care bear.

Also low sec is kinda like the ghetto being there is still a bit of law just not a lot of cops.

Frau Klaps
Amarr
Posted - 2011.08.18 17:33:00 - [46]
 

What is up with all the low/null sec 'fix' whiners at the moment? ugh

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2011.08.18 17:36:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Frau Klaps
What is up with all the low/null sec 'fix' whiners at the moment? ugh


You should know by now that this stuff always comes in waves. Fix gallente, nerf ganking, fix gate camps, nerf RR alts.. ect..ect..

Chopper Rollins
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.18 17:48:00 - [48]
 

ITT: brainy people who don't know what they are talking about, besieged by the usual 'i'm better than you' dingbats and the forum's swarm of stinging jellyfish.

Ashamed to admit i stopped reading at Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Srsly, guise, it's a game, get out there and lose some ships, that's what eve is about. Epic loss, more epic loss, build stuff and watch it go up in smoke and crying.

"If you want to make null sec more populated then you are going to have to pander to human nature..."
Human nature? You mean ruthless and relentlessly unpredictable? All you can really say about human nature is that we are clever, everything else is value-laden distortion. Clever, clever creatures, these.




Frau Klaps
Amarr
Posted - 2011.08.18 17:55:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Mutnin
Originally by: Frau Klaps
What is up with all the low/null sec 'fix' whiners at the moment? ugh


You should know by now that this stuff always comes in waves. Fix gallente, nerf ganking, fix gate camps, nerf RR alts.. ect..ect..


True, but it's still fun to mock them.

Leeroy McJenkins
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.18 17:57:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Chopper Rollins
ITT: brainy people who don't know what they are talking about, besieged by the usual 'i'm better than you' dingbats and the forum's swarm of stinging jellyfish.



I actually wish the forum had dingbats

Tartarek
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:15:00 - [51]
 

Personally I don't think there's really a problem with the current high sec/low sec/ null sec set up. People as its said are going to gravitate to where there's safety and security and the least "safe" currently is low sec. Null sec is only more secure if you're a part of a group that can provide you with some measure of safety. So typically High sec is going to be populated by lone players, or players who prefer to run in small groups, null sec by those who have the capability and desire to be part of a larger group.

To be honest I venture the least into low sec (and I've been part of corps in all sorts of space, each with a certain appeal) simply because the risk/reward ratio is the lowest of all the spaces, whether I'm after pvp action or deciding to fulfil my logistic needs and "carebearing" (I haven't mastered pvp to the degree where it pays the bills yet). Pvp is pretty static in low sec. There's also no real reason to PvE in low sec either - since PvE really boils down to optimising your isk flow. Essentially the only people one usually encounters in low sec are other people also looking to do the same thing, PvP, which is good the game isn't strictly this because I would have gotten bored of it long ago.


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