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Rikeka
Eye of God
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:05:00 - [151]
 

Oh, pls tell me. What are the risks in dangerous and scary high sec?

There are no risks, and all losses are avoidable, unless you are really stupid that is. Also true in 0.0, only some losses in 0.0 are out of your controll (lik lockout assets, some fleet losses, etc)

Bustin Jieber
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:05:00 - [152]
 

It should be Level 1 and Level 2 missions in highsec, Level 3 missions in lowsec and Level 4 and Level 5 missions in nullsec.

Rikeka
Eye of God
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:07:00 - [153]
 

Originally by: Ana Vyr
If what the OP says is true, I'm done.

This is what I do currently:

I run a research POS in high sec, and manufacture T2 goods for sale. I also run level 4 missions on the side.

I've spent time in nullsec in an alliance, and it wasn't the type of gameplay I was looking for. My lifestyle requires that I play solo for the most part.

If the OP is correct, the proposed changes are a game-killer for me.


You would still be able to do lvl 3's in high sec, or move to low sec and do missions there.
As for the research, fuel would be moved to Jita no matter what, you can buy it there.

Only the ice botters can truly complain of ice being moved out, seriously.

Generals4
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:08:00 - [154]
 

Originally by: Bustin Jieber
It should be Level 1 and Level 2 missions in highsec, Level 3 missions in lowsec and Level 4 and Level 5 missions in nullsec.


No it should be like:
Lvl 1-3 High sec
Lvl 4 Null
Lvl 5 Low

We all know Low sec is more dangerous than 0.0

Heck remove ABC from null and move it to low. No more hiding deep in sov space.

xavier69
Gallente
Stark Enterprises LLC
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:11:00 - [155]
 

Edited by: xavier69 on 15/08/2011 20:18:38
Quote:
1.No more lvl 4s in high sec it appears. Oops. Sorry mission runners.

I have though the years been ****ed off at CCP for the stupid **** they do on a regular basis and taken 2-3 month breaks at a time.
This however will be the straw that broke the camels back.

I will mission for 20-30m isk per mission in a ship worth 500 million, in low sec, CCP your out of your ****ing minds. If you ever do something this dumb I will personally fly to Iceland to throw your Asses in that volcano

Quote:
1. No more Ice in high sec.

Again Who the **** wants to sit and mine ice for 8-12 hours at a time while in low sec ? news flash NOBODY, the only reason ice gets mined now its done mostly semi afk. Please think LEYRO JANKINS! You already ****ed up the economy of this game hard with the change to robotics and PI robotics went from a seeded item costing 8k per to a 60k per item over night due to your idiocy

If you want to force low sec ice mining it needs to be A LOT ****ING FASTER, AKA what takes 12 hours now should take 2-4 hours.

Quote:
3. Seeing the 3 dolla marker board

the devs are using has fail hard written all over it, if thatís how you create flow charts for our game we are ****ED and its no wonder our game has sucked so bad for the past 2 years

7 years playing this game and yes I am pretty ****ed at the idiots who for the past 2 years have done nothing but FAIL



Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:12:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: Rikeka
Originally by: Ana Vyr
If what the OP says is true, I'm done.

This is what I do currently:

I run a research POS in high sec, and manufacture T2 goods for sale. I also run level 4 missions on the side.

I've spent time in nullsec in an alliance, and it wasn't the type of gameplay I was looking for. My lifestyle requires that I play solo for the most part.

If the OP is correct, the proposed changes are a game-killer for me.


You would still be able to do lvl 3's in high sec, or move to low sec and do missions there.
As for the research, fuel would be moved to Jita no matter what, you can buy it there.

Only the ice botters can truly complain of ice being moved out, seriously.


What about T2 manufacturing though? I can give up ice mining (I do all my own ice mining, and it's boring as hell), I wouldn't even bother with level 3 missions, as I prefer flying battleships. Most of my ISK comes from T2 manufacturing.

Urgg Boolean
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:16:00 - [157]
 

Thorrablot :: kinda like an EvE version of the American Thanksgiving for Icelanders. It defines their willingness to do whatever it takes to survive, including eating ram's "jeuvos" and taking risks that may well result in disaster. It is also a testament to the dogged nature of Icelanders.

Didn't read all the posts, but: I see this (if it plays out as outlined by the OP) along with the NeX store as excessive risk taking that alienates many of their paying customers. As usual, we have to wait and see how the Devs accomplish their goals in terms of game play.

Dev strategies like this make me glad my subscription timer is about to time out. Not because of risk versus reward issues like most people get hot about, but because this is yet another failure to design a really cool and creative system to entice people to take risks. Again, if as outlined by the OP, it's a blunt hammer approach and fails to utilize an opportunity to inject creativity into the game.

Rikeka
Eye of God
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:17:00 - [158]
 

Well, I see no change there. Basically, if you live in empire, you now still depend on the materials that come from 0.0, right? What would change then?

Rikeka
Eye of God
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:21:00 - [159]
 

Anyway, as only a short number of people vote in the CSM (most are from 0.0), the system works!
After all, the representatives work for those they represent, and that's good.

RAW23
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:24:00 - [160]
 

Originally by: Urgg Boolean
Thorrablot :: kinda like an EvE version of the American Thanksgiving for Icelanders. It defines their willingness to do whatever it takes to survive, including eating ram's "jeuvos" and taking risks that may well result in disaster. It is also a testament to the dogged nature of Icelanders.

Didn't read all the posts, but: I see this (if it plays out as outlined by the OP) along with the NeX store as excessive risk taking that alienates many of their paying customers. As usual, we have to wait and see how the Devs accomplish their goals in terms of game play.

Dev strategies like this make me glad my subscription timer is about to time out. Not because of risk versus reward issues like most people get hot about, but because this is yet another failure to design a really cool and creative system to entice people to take risks. Again, if as outlined by the OP, it's a blunt hammer approach and fails to utilize an opportunity to inject creativity into the game.


From reading some of Grayscale's comments in the features forum discussion threads, it looks like these are just ideas that need to be balanced. So, even if the ideal is questionable they don't seem t have got far beyond brainstorming and have probably released the material in this early stage purely to gather feedback. However, given my own immediate reaction to the outlines this has all the making of another PR clusterfuc[k].

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:24:00 - [161]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 15/08/2011 20:26:33

Originally by: Urgg Boolean

Didn't read all the posts, but: I see this (if it plays out as outlined by the OP) along with the NeX store as excessive risk taking that alienates many of their paying customers. As usual, we have to wait and see how the Devs accomplish their goals in terms of game play.


Honestly, it isnt so much about alienating customers but breaking the game economy.

If we are realistic for a second, and take into account how long a mackinaw has to mine in order to get enough ice for providing the fuel for a single cross-region carrier jump... I dont think I have to finish that sentence.

I dont see anyone striking a profit mining ice when the ice belts are camped 23/7 by stealth bombers. In fact, I dont see capital fleets moving after a while.

Now that might be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your stance towards capitals, but it would be the killing blow to the game economy.

It might be a fun change nonetheless, I'll definitely dust of the manticore and bomb launcher and wreck havoc on the friendly neighborhood powerblock Twisted Evil

baltec1
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:24:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: Ana Vyr
If what the OP says is true, I'm done.

This is what I do currently:

I run a research POS in high sec, and manufacture T2 goods for sale. I also run level 4 missions on the side.

I've spent time in nullsec in an alliance, and it wasn't the type of gameplay I was looking for. My lifestyle requires that I play solo for the most part.

If the OP is correct, the proposed changes are a game-killer for me.


How exactly is it a game killer? You will still be able to do your POS and maufacture T2 goods.

RAW23
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:26:00 - [163]
 

Originally by: Rikeka
Anyway, as only a short number of people vote in the CSM (most are from 0.0), the system works!
After all, the representatives work for those they represent, and that's good.


Except there are no constituency seats on the CSM and they are explicitly representatives of the player body as a whole. If they choose not to fulfil the function of the CSM, that is a different matter, but it is not their job to just represent those who voted for them. Indeed, given the secret ballot structure of the elections they do not know who those people are (although in many cases they can make a good guess).

Hoya en Marland
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:34:00 - [164]
 

If this is their new idea how to attract more people into 0.0 meatgrinder then they are terribly wrong.

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:39:00 - [165]
 

Edited by: Ana Vyr on 15/08/2011 20:40:40
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Ana Vyr
If what the OP says is true, I'm done.

This is what I do currently:

I run a research POS in high sec, and manufacture T2 goods for sale. I also run level 4 missions on the side.

I've spent time in nullsec in an alliance, and it wasn't the type of gameplay I was looking for. My lifestyle requires that I play solo for the most part.

If the OP is correct, the proposed changes are a game-killer for me.


How exactly is it a game killer? You will still be able to do your POS and maufacture T2 goods.


I must have misread the OP. It seemed to imply no more T2 manufacturing in highsec. I find it hard ot believe that CCP would remove the use for battleships in high sec though (Level 4 missions).

Dasola
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:44:00 - [166]
 

Originally by: Miss Rabblt
risk vs reward


Then 0.0 is clearly wrong place to put all strawberries. 0.0 is as safe if not safer then highsec. Confused

Maybe they should dump all ice, zydrine and megasite in lowsec. maybe then some people would actyally choose to live there. YARRRR!!

Barakkus
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:47:00 - [167]
 

Originally by: Dasola
Originally by: Miss Rabblt
risk vs reward


Then 0.0 is clearly wrong place to put all strawberries. 0.0 is as safe if not safer then highsec. Confused

Maybe they should dump all ice, zydrine and megasite in lowsec. maybe then some people would actyally choose to live there. YARRRR!!


No, people will just bot more so they can afford the inflated prices of the very few that will bother with it.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:48:00 - [168]
 

Remove local in 0.0 and the risk goes way upVery Happy

Wa'roun
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:54:00 - [169]
 

Perhaps there needs to be an additional level of missions, for a total of levels 1-6, where level 5's become 6 (level 5s being null sec), level 4s become 5, etc, so that highest high sec is level 3, and every level's rewards and difficutly are adjusted accordingly.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.08.15 21:02:00 - [170]
 

I wonder if we could bribe CCP to put up big signs at every gate leading out of highsec saying "Here be dragons".

Signal11th
Posted - 2011.08.15 21:06:00 - [171]
 

Edited by: Signal11th on 15/08/2011 21:11:13
Originally by: Cambarus
Originally by: Signal11th
Originally by: Cambarus


I don't claim mate I know, Spent the last two years in 0.0 and it's an extremely safe place to be if your not an idiot. Yes alot of work goes into it being made safe but jesus the amount of isk made in 0.0 far outstrips any risk there.
You're either absurdly good at making isk and not losing ships in nullsec, or insanely bad at doing those same things in highsec. Incursions especially have tipped the isk per hour ratio towards highsec, since 100+mil/hour is not difficult to achieve if you're in a decent fleet, and the risk is almost non-existent if you fly with people you know.

There really aren't any risks in highsec that aren't also present in nullsec, but nullsec presents risks not seen in highsec. It's provable nonsense to claim that highsec is more dangerous.


So you get wardecced in high sec what's the difference then from 0.0? I never said high-sec was safer all the time I said sometimes, and 0.0 isn't the bad scary world your trying to make it out to be. They have enough isk making capability in 0.0 they don't need anymore buffing. 100mil an hour in alliance controlled space on your own is easy enough to earn.

Fulc Dainton
Posted - 2011.08.15 21:07:00 - [172]
 

I like running level 4 missions in high. It's how I choose to spend my time in EVE. Take it away and I'm not suddenly going to change my mind about null/low, I'm much more likely to go back to one of the other MMOs I play which provides an enjoyable experience that suits me.

Players gravitate towards a play style that suits them and if playing in low or null simply doesn't appeal to them they are not going to suddenly change; if they don't like null or low now, they won't jump the fence to get their ball back if it's been kicked over the wall into the crocodile pen.

You can discuss the merits of risk vs reward and all the other pros and cons of changing the system ad nauseum, but players will only continue to play if they are enjoying the activities on offer.
Remove what they enjoy and you alienate your paying public.

Not-Apsalar
Posted - 2011.08.15 21:10:00 - [173]
 

Edited by: Not-Apsalar on 15/08/2011 21:10:30
Originally by: Monstress

Except the 0.0 bots are programmed to NEVER rat in local with neutrals. So you could sit there all day in your cloaked covops cyno alt and do nothing. I've lived in DRF space hunting macro ratters for weeks straight and they all show the same behavior.

The only way to catch these guys is hope they're pointed by belt rats or anom rats by the time you jump into local. If you manage to catch one with an AFK cloaky BO gang, it likely wasn't a bot, just a dumb human.

Edit:
I lied, another way to catch these pesky botters is by doing a logoffski at a belt or anomaly and hope to log in with them in it. I don't like this approach though.


Logoffski works, or, like I said, camp the system 24/7. If you prevent their bots from going out you win anyways(moral victory, at least), and eventually they want to make isk, so they venture out and ignore you(could be weeks, of course). That is when you strike.

Aldarica
Spinal Discipline
Posted - 2011.08.15 21:10:00 - [174]
 

Risk vs. reward? Heh. Nullsec is in most cases safer than Empire. If they want to make ice and most valuable ore/NPC drops more difficult to obtain they should move them to lowsec, not 0.0.

Barbie D0ll
Posted - 2011.08.15 21:13:00 - [175]
 

Originally by: baltec1
Remove local in 0.0 and the risk goes way upVery Happy

oh god this so much

[rant]
risk in nullsec?
if you are not in a nullsec alliance and pay them their 1 bil isk a day existence fee they will do a supercapital driveby
cyno-jammer in your system?
say hello to 1000 man tempest fleets that insta-incap pos mods like your cyno-jammer then drop supercapitals on you
you run annoms?
not anymore thanks to AFK-cloakies on grid with your cleared anoms preventing them from respawning
you like to have a secure corporation?
say hello to armies of spy alts
you want to visit nullsec?
say hello to roaming fleets of whatever that will camp you in your own system risk free and bubble all the exits leaving the only way out the pod express
you want to fight back?
say hello to client drop exploits, teamspeak server hacking and takeover, website hacking and takeover, and attemps to hack into your computer and steal your account info to use your character to backstab your alliance/corp mates
you still want to fight back?
once they take over your teamspeak server they can trace you back to where you live and cut your power so you can't log on to fight back

you want to go back to highsec?
they can hire merc alliances to make your life hell and with CSM belonging to the nullsec overlords they will just nerf highsec or buff nullsec until their bots/slaves make more money than you in complete safety
oh wait they already do that

you want to mine in highsec?
nullsec have bots that do that

you want to farm drone minerals?
Drone regions are pumping out more drone minerals
[/rant]
the list goes on and on

Tyberius Franklin
Posted - 2011.08.15 21:13:00 - [176]
 

Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Ana Vyr
If what the OP says is true, I'm done.

This is what I do currently:

I run a research POS in high sec, and manufacture T2 goods for sale. I also run level 4 missions on the side.

I've spent time in nullsec in an alliance, and it wasn't the type of gameplay I was looking for. My lifestyle requires that I play solo for the most part.

If the OP is correct, the proposed changes are a game-killer for me.


How exactly is it a game killer? You will still be able to do your POS and maufacture T2 goods.


From the blog:
Geared towards T2

* Our current proposal is that hisec is for volume T1 goods, lowsec will be for meta/faction gear eventually, nullsec is for T2, and wormholes are for T3

This would suggest that, even if not removed altogether, T2 manufacture in highsec would be inferior to nullsec, possibly reducing profitability for highsec T2 producers to the point where it may no longer be worthwhile. Op seems to be assuming it will be taken away completely though.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.08.15 21:17:00 - [177]
 

Originally by: Tyberius Franklin
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Ana Vyr
If what the OP says is true, I'm done.

This is what I do currently:

I run a research POS in high sec, and manufacture T2 goods for sale. I also run level 4 missions on the side.

I've spent time in nullsec in an alliance, and it wasn't the type of gameplay I was looking for. My lifestyle requires that I play solo for the most part.

If the OP is correct, the proposed changes are a game-killer for me.


How exactly is it a game killer? You will still be able to do your POS and maufacture T2 goods.


From the blog:
Geared towards T2

* Our current proposal is that hisec is for volume T1 goods, lowsec will be for meta/faction gear eventually, nullsec is for T2, and wormholes are for T3

This would suggest that, even if not removed altogether, T2 manufacture in highsec would be inferior to nullsec, possibly reducing profitability for highsec T2 producers to the point where it may no longer be worthwhile. Op seems to be assuming it will be taken away completely though.


I see it as where you get the bits to make the t2 things.

Kevric
Talocan Scrap Metal and Recycling
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.15 21:20:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: Ladie Scarlet
Originally by: Windjammer
Thus speaks the sheep who follows his leaders/masters and glories in being part of the mass where he only has to follow orders, not where he has to worry about a moments independent thought.


Your post. It makes no sense.

Also, if you can't see how fantastic these changes would be then you are really feeble-minded.


Hmmm, Goons are on record as wanting to break the game. Pardon me if I take your view of these changes being "fantastic" for the game with a grain of salt.

Tyberius Franklin
Posted - 2011.08.15 21:24:00 - [179]
 

Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Tyberius Franklin
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Ana Vyr
If what the OP says is true, I'm done.

This is what I do currently:

I run a research POS in high sec, and manufacture T2 goods for sale. I also run level 4 missions on the side.

I've spent time in nullsec in an alliance, and it wasn't the type of gameplay I was looking for. My lifestyle requires that I play solo for the most part.

If the OP is correct, the proposed changes are a game-killer for me.


How exactly is it a game killer? You will still be able to do your POS and maufacture T2 goods.


From the blog:
Geared towards T2

* Our current proposal is that hisec is for volume T1 goods, lowsec will be for meta/faction gear eventually, nullsec is for T2, and wormholes are for T3

This would suggest that, even if not removed altogether, T2 manufacture in highsec would be inferior to nullsec, possibly reducing profitability for highsec T2 producers to the point where it may no longer be worthwhile. Op seems to be assuming it will be taken away completely though.


I see it as where you get the bits to make the t2 things.


Could be interpreted that way, but considering moon mineral distro, i'm not sure how it would differ from the current situation. Could just be reiterating the importance of moons in null. But really, the statement is too vague for me at least to draw any certain changes they have in mind from it.

Barakkus
Posted - 2011.08.15 21:26:00 - [180]
 

I only see this happening honestly.


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