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Thornat
Posted - 2011.08.15 14:29:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Signal11th
Originally by: Miss Rabblt
risk vs reward



I know everyone keeps saying risk vs reward but to be honest to anyone who has lived in 0.0 like myself will tell you 0.0 is actually a very safe place to be.


Correction. Corps and Alliance make it a safe place for their corp members and alliance members. Its something players create for themselves. Come in my wormhole and I will show you how nulls sec is not safe for you.

Delianora
Posted - 2011.08.15 14:30:00 - [32]
 

I might actually start logging in if they fix the rampant printing of riskless isk in the game.

Signal11th
Posted - 2011.08.15 14:33:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Signal11th on 15/08/2011 14:36:52
Edited by: Signal11th on 15/08/2011 14:35:42
Originally by: Thornat
Originally by: Signal11th
Originally by: Miss Rabblt
risk vs reward



I know everyone keeps saying risk vs reward but to be honest to anyone who has lived in 0.0 like myself will tell you 0.0 is actually a very safe place to be.


Correction. Corps and Alliance make it a safe place for their corp members and alliance members. Its something players create for themselves. Come in my wormhole and I will show you how nulls sec is not safe for you.


I'm already in a Wormhole at the moment?? Your point being? You think because your in a Wormhole everyone else isn't? I know how "slightly" more dangerous a wormhole is.

Wormholes are more dangerous and alot more profitable hence the reason I'm making more in WH's than I did in 0.0
In my previous post I'm just tired of people saying your taking a huge risk going to 0.0 when in fact sometimes its safer than high-sec.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.08.15 14:54:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Miss Rabblt
risk vs reward


Only valid if local in 0.0 DIAFs in a fire. Fortunately,

Originally by: blevdog
Intel

Time - gathering intelligence should not be quick.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:00:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Razin on 15/08/2011 15:10:54
Originally by: Chrono Seeker
Edited by: Chrono Seeker on 15/08/2011 13:43:44
Edited by: Chrono Seeker on 15/08/2011 13:33:49
Some activities that will no longer be available in High sec according to the dev blog:

Quote:
Sole source of ice and high-end minerals


No more Ice in high sec.

Quote:
Geared towards T2
Our current proposal is that hisec is for volume T1 goods, lowsec will be for meta/faction gear eventually, nullsec is for T2, and wormholes are for T3


Oops, sorry, but we don't want people in high sec doing anything but T1 industry. And no more Meta drops in missions!

Quote:
Best loot
The best loot in the game should come from nullsec. High-end loot's enforced rarity gives a strong "jackpot" moment and tends towards extremely high values, and nullsec should be where you go to get high-value payouts.


That Pithum C-type Medium shield booster won't be found in high sec sites anymore. Or any good loot for that matter.

Quote:
Best agents
For further discussion. The best agents in the game should all be in nullsec, in keeping with the "richest area in the game" theme. There should be a clear margin of value for nullsec agents that acts as an enticement for mission runners to move there.


No more lvl 4s in high sec it appears. Oops. Sorry mission runners.

So it appears that CCP is taking the most lucrative areas of the game and putting them only in null sec. But they deserve it right? No one but huge alliances should be making any sort of good ISK in this game right? Personally I'm going to start buying ICE and resell it all later.

You say all this like it's a bad thing. It should have been this way from the very beginning!

Nyio
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:01:00 - [36]
 

And here I was hoping for more/better stuff in highsec. oh well.. ugh

mechtech
SRS Industries
SRS.
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:01:00 - [37]
 

About damn time.

DoctorDanny
TunDraGon
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:02:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: DoctorDanny on 15/08/2011 15:02:45
Originally by: Chrono Seeker
Edited by: Chrono Seeker on 15/08/2011 13:43:44
Edited by: Chrono Seeker on 15/08/2011 13:33:49
Some activities that will no longer be available in High sec according to the dev blog:

Quote:
Sole source of ice and high-end minerals


No more Ice in high sec.

Quote:
Geared towards T2



Our current proposal is that hisec is for volume T1 goods, lowsec will be for meta/faction gear eventually, nullsec is for T2, and wormholes are for T3


Oops, sorry, but we don't want people in high sec doing anything but T1 industry. And no more Meta drops in missions!

Quote:
Best loot
The best loot in the game should come from nullsec. High-end loot's enforced rarity gives a strong "jackpot" moment and tends towards extremely high values, and nullsec should be where you go to get high-value payouts.


That Pithum C-type Medium shield booster won't be found in high sec sites anymore. Or any good loot for that matter.

Quote:
Best agents
For further discussion. The best agents in the game should all be in nullsec, in keeping with the "richest area in the game" theme. There should be a clear margin of value for nullsec agents that acts as an enticement for mission runners to move there.


No more lvl 4s in high sec it appears. Oops. Sorry mission runners.

So it appears that CCP is taking the most lucrative areas of the game and putting them only in null sec. But they deserve it right? No one but huge alliances should be making any sort of good ISK in this game right? Personally I'm going to start buying ICE and resell it all later.



I'm a low sec ganker and I endorse this message.

Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:04:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Signal11th
Edited by: Signal11th on 15/08/2011 14:36:52
Edited by: Signal11th on 15/08/2011 14:35:42
Originally by: Thornat
Originally by: Signal11th


I know everyone keeps saying risk vs reward but to be honest to anyone who has lived in 0.0 like myself will tell you 0.0 is actually a very safe place to be.


Correction. Corps and Alliance make it a safe place for their corp members and alliance members. Its something players create for themselves. Come in my wormhole and I will show you how nulls sec is not safe for you.


I'm already in a Wormhole at the moment?? Your point being? You think because your in a Wormhole everyone else isn't? I know how "slightly" more dangerous a wormhole is.

Wormholes are more dangerous and alot more profitable hence the reason I'm making more in WH's than I did in 0.0
In my previous post I'm just tired of people saying your taking a huge risk going to 0.0 when in fact sometimes its safer than high-sec.
TBH I'm sick of seeing people claim that 0.0 is safe, or, even more absurd, that it is safer than highsec. There is a lot you can do in nullsec (and even wh space) to MINIMIZE the risk, but these are all things that cost a lot of isk, or a lot of time/people (and therefore, isk). It may be fairly easy not to lose ships often in nullsec if you're very experienced in doing so, but even if that is the case, you still take a much larger risk by being out there than you would in highsec. The fact that the isk you can make while in concord protected space rivals the isk you can make in nullsec is absurd.

Wacktopia
Sicarius.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:07:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Chrono Seeker
Edited by: Chrono Seeker on 15/08/2011 13:43:44
Edited by: Chrono Seeker on 15/08/2011 13:33:49
Some activities that will no longer be available in High sec according to the dev blog:

Quote:
Sole source of ice and high-end minerals


No more Ice in high sec.


Sounds cool.

Originally by: Chrono Seeker


Quote:
Geared towards T2
Our current proposal is that hisec is for volume T1 goods, lowsec will be for meta/faction gear eventually, nullsec is for T2, and wormholes are for T3


Oops, sorry, but we don't want people in high sec doing anything but T1 industry. And no more Meta drops in missions!



Sounds cool.

Originally by: Chrono Seeker


Quote:
Best loot
The best loot in the game should come from nullsec. High-end loot's enforced rarity gives a strong "jackpot" moment and tends towards extremely high values, and nullsec should be where you go to get high-value payouts.


That Pithum C-type Medium shield booster won't be found in high sec sites anymore. Or any good loot for that matter.



Sounds cool too. I plex'ed in low sec for ages with good rewards. Anyone else can do the same.

Originally by: Chrono Seeker


Quote:
Best agents
For further discussion. The best agents in the game should all be in nullsec, in keeping with the "richest area in the game" theme. There should be a clear margin of value for nullsec agents that acts as an enticement for mission runners to move there.


No more lvl 4s in high sec it appears. Oops. Sorry mission runners.



Doesnt say no L4's in hi-sec just more rewards in low sec. I welcome this as I run L4's in low sec and the chance of being ganked is real so why shouldn't the reward be better too?

Originally by: Chrono Seeker


So it appears that CCP is taking the most lucrative areas of the game and putting them only in null sec. But they deserve it right? No one but huge alliances should be making any sort of good ISK in this game right? Personally I'm going to start buying ICE and resell it all later.



Bring on the risk, baby. Times will change for the NPC-corp hi sec bears. Become a bear will balls! Big bear balls. YEAH!

RAW23
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:10:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Cambarus
TBH I'm sick of seeing people claim that 0.0 is safe, or, even more absurd, that it is safer than highsec. There is a lot you can do in nullsec (and even wh space) to MINIMIZE the risk, but these are all things that cost a lot of isk, or a lot of time/people (and therefore, isk). It may be fairly easy not to lose ships often in nullsec if you're very experienced in doing so, but even if that is the case, you still take a much larger risk by being out there than you would in highsec. The fact that the isk you can make while in concord protected space rivals the isk you can make in nullsec is absurd.


Don't you think the trillions of isk passively generated each month in moon mins might compensate and then some for the isk costs of making space safe?

Nikodiemus
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:10:00 - [42]
 

Who the hell mines ice?

Meryl SinGarda
Caldari
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:11:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Meryl SinGarda on 15/08/2011 15:16:11
Yeah but what about the people who don't care about 0.0? I can deal with low-sec and wormholes, 0.0 means nothing to me.

The people supporting this are just emo nullsec bears that sit around all day wondering why no one wants to play with them.

M'ktakh
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:12:00 - [44]
 

Calling Akita T, calling Akita T.

Jayem See
Caldari
Alien Ruffneck Force
Ignes Immortalis
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:18:00 - [45]
 

To be honest - who gives a tiny rats ass?

Hi sec allows people to make isk to PvP.

PvP is good.

Therefore hi sec is good!

Crap logic, craply applied.

The point remains tho that a balance is needed. The "Elite" folks who claim that hi sec is bad, are relying on their logistics guys to bring them the very stuff they need, to keep doing what they do. From hi sec. Jump freighters anyone?

I like hi sec - I like low sec - I like null. All of them has their place. I just hope CCP don't screw it all up trying to FORCE people somewhere they don't want to be. It's a sandbox.

In case you didn't get that - it's a sandbox.

Vaako Horizon
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:20:00 - [46]
 

The fault CCP is making is assuming everyone likes pvp or even has the time for it.
I am online around 5 hours / week in total.
If I am to do anything interesting in that time I want to do it without the chance to loose it all.
In the direction CCP is heading I guess I will loose that chance to even afford a BS :P

Oosel
The Riot Formation
KRYSIS.
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:22:00 - [47]
 

so what if it all gets moved out to 0.0 for those who dont want a part of it they will just go and do lvl3's instead as long as it means you dont have to get involved in gank fests or 0.0 politics then fair play to them. you will not force people into 0.0 no matter how much you take away from high sec because for a very large portion of eves playerbase the pain that is 0.0 and low sec will never appeal. why do you think loads of 0.0 players have alts in high sec just because they want a break and heres the big bit and some fun without the hassle of 0.0 so what if you dont earn billions as long as you still enjoy the game then let the 0.0 guys have it all because i know some days when i have an hour only to play then high sec gives me my eve fix and 0.0 will never provide that

Rikeka
Eye of God
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:27:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Rikeka on 15/08/2011 15:27:39
High Sec:
-Should stay as it is, regarding missions,
-Agents in low sec, though, should pay way more,
-There should be no ice-fields in high sec,

Low Sec:
-Should be more profitable, regarding mining and missioning,
-There should be low yield ice-fields in low sec,

0.0:
-Mining should be way more profitable,
-Delayed local? If only for 30 seconds,
-Better agents, better rewards, more isk, a 0.0 dweller should earn MUCH more than a empire dweller, not just 10-15% more the ISK, but with 1000% more risks,
-Moons profit should be cut to a fraction, or better yet, moon goo should be cyclical, meaning you may found Tech now, crap next week. How this changes and to what should be random, so random not even devs know where the valuable minerals end up. This would also create a true market for moon minerals (moons goo prices would suffer great price changes, depending on the availability of the minerals every so often), and would create jobs like "moon probers",

WH's:
-Should stay as it is.
-Maybe make POS's require less fuel than in normal space (20-25% less?)

General Ideas:
-Remove guns from Titans and Supercarriers, make fighters and bombers impossible to lock structures?
-DD's every 1 hour, not 10 minutes (or less dmg, making it impossible to 1-shot a normal cap).
-Make SC's susceptible to some kinds of e-war? (maybe no warp disruptor, but dampeners, tracking disruptors, jammers, etc?)

Hayley Magiliska
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:27:00 - [49]
 

how about existing empire rewards stay the same as they are now so the empire pubbies are kept quiet.

Then, just provide new stuff in low and nullsec which generates progressively more isk?


Jayem See
Caldari
Alien Ruffneck Force
Ignes Immortalis
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:27:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Oosel
so what if it all gets moved out to 0.0 for those who dont want a part of it they will just go and do lvl3's instead as long as it means you dont have to get involved in gank fests or 0.0 politics then fair play to them. you will not force people into 0.0 no matter how much you take away from high sec because for a very large portion of eves playerbase the pain that is 0.0 and low sec will never appeal. why do you think loads of 0.0 players have alts in high sec just because they want a break and heres the big bit and some fun without the hassle of 0.0 so what if you dont earn billions as long as you still enjoy the game then let the 0.0 guys have it all because i know some days when i have an hour only to play then high sec gives me my eve fix and 0.0 will never provide that


My eyes - god save my eyes.

Nice sentiment though. Razz

Vaako Horizon
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:29:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Oosel
so what if it all gets moved out to 0.0 for those who dont want a part of it they will just go and do lvl3's instead as long as it means you dont have to get involved in gank fests or 0.0 politics then fair play to them. you will not force people into 0.0 no matter how much you take away from high sec because for a very large portion of eves playerbase the pain that is 0.0 and low sec will never appeal. why do you think loads of 0.0 players have alts in high sec just because they want a break and heres the big bit and some fun without the hassle of 0.0 so what if you dont earn billions as long as you still enjoy the game then let the 0.0 guys have it all because i know some days when i have an hour only to play then high sec gives me my eve fix and 0.0 will never provide that


If we high sec pve runners get thrown down to lvl 3 missions it goes towards pointless and then its time to leave the game.
Its a game about flying spaceships ( among other things ) but we high sec'er arent even allowed to fly some of the ships :P

I whould be happy to pay a little extra for a non pvp subscription which allowed my immunity from it and total banishment from pvp. ( including account punishment if I was ever found to be involved in pvp in any way/shape/form )

Rico Minali
Gallente
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:29:00 - [52]
 

Hmm, just read your report.. Yep, all seems to make sense to me. If you want the big rewards, take the big risks. Oh and the guy who posted about losses not really being that high, just a few ships here and there, go take a look at a few battle reports. MM and Evoke lost about 10 billion each last night in 2 individual engagements. Seems a fairly large sum to me.

Miranda Nebail
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:30:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Oosel
so what if it all gets moved out to 0.0 for those who dont want a part of it they will just go and do lvl3's instead as long as it means you dont have to get involved in gank fests or 0.0 politics then fair play to them. you will not force people into 0.0 no matter how much you take away from high sec because for a very large portion of eves playerbase the pain that is 0.0 and low sec will never appeal. why do you think loads of 0.0 players have alts in high sec just because they want a break and heres the big bit and some fun without the hassle of 0.0 so what if you dont earn billions as long as you still enjoy the game then let the 0.0 guys have it all because i know some days when i have an hour only to play then high sec gives me my eve fix and 0.0 will never provide that


Acid on my eyes.

If you truly think 0.0 players have alts in empire because they want to have fun, you truly have no idea of what the hell you are talking about. Are we even talking about the same game?

Taseer
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:33:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Taseer on 15/08/2011 15:33:56
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Cambarus
TBH I'm sick of seeing people claim that 0.0 is safe, or, even more absurd, that it is safer than highsec. There is a lot you can do in nullsec (and even wh space) to MINIMIZE the risk, but these are all things that cost a lot of isk, or a lot of time/people (and therefore, isk). It may be fairly easy not to lose ships often in nullsec if you're very experienced in doing so, but even if that is the case, you still take a much larger risk by being out there than you would in highsec. The fact that the isk you can make while in concord protected space rivals the isk you can make in nullsec is absurd.


Don't you think the trillions of isk passively generated each month in moon mins might compensate and then some for the isk costs of making space safe?
Trillions of isk split between how many people? And that isk actually IS at risk, because there is little, if anything, from stopping someone else from taking it from you.

daddys helper
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:34:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Rikeka
Finally!

No more bears to shoot.
Want the rewards, take risks.


RvR works both ways, or should

what is the risk to a fleet camping the gate as opposed to the risk of the victim running mish in a 500m t3 boat?

people here love bandying around the phrase risk vs reward, but why is all the risk one-sided?

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:36:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Sarmatiko

Originally by: Miss Rabblt
risk vs reward

Wait you mean bot Raven hunter/anomaly cleaner that lives in rented 0.0 system and warps out to POS in seconds after you show up in local, risking with something?

problem is bot Raven hunter doesn't need to warp to POS in high-sec. Use t2 gear and your bot completely safely makes you bounty 23 hours a day.

I agree 0.0 sov isn't such a danger place as it supposed to be. It really needs some kind of NPC danger in case of poor people nature and absence of pvp danger there.

However "risk vs reward"

Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:36:00 - [57]
 

Sounds like OP put sand and lemon juice in their eyes, then glanced over the entire post while holding it up to a mirror so it was read backwards.

ITS IDEAS TO BUFF NULLSEC!!!

No, level 4s are not being moved to nullsec. In fact looking at agent finder lists 241 nullsec agents and another 12 agents in highsec under epic status in highsec with no level 5s in null at all. Wow, so you add more level 4s to nullsec because 241 spread among a handful of NPC regions does not quanitfy high levels of epic rewards, add level 5 agents to nullsec with larger alliances capping down the system meaning fleet engagements much akin to incursions and lots of missions to pool together, or add a new category similar to the epic status that pays even more. ****, ideas galore but "move to lowsec, cause there is zero risk involved" would mean revamping the other half of the basic core of the game (which, if the last 3 expansions is any indication they won't bother but add more stupid test crap to EVE for Dust and WoD). Simple put PVE and PVP, a solo PVP ship will die fast to NPC lacking a repper just so much as a PVE ship lacking a buffer and 2 damage resists can take on PVP ships.

Originally by: Rikeka
Clearly, some people want to keep playing EVE easy-mode, while getting all the rewards.

Highsec does not pay out rewards, it pays out. Its not epic proportions, its a min-wage job to keep the skill que grind in the back of your mind. You have access to all the same content I do, I choose what I want to do and you are welcome to participate in anything you want be it highsec level 4s or lowsec level 5s.

You want to play hardball EVE? Let me explain it real simple.
1. Control + left mouse click ship
2. F1
3. Shut off CONCORD notification pop up.
4. ????
5. PROFIT!!! Thats it, get over the fact that any time you can attack another player and skies the limit.

I choose to avoid PVP and lulsec/dullsec, because I don't want to play hardmode boring ass grind daily reset 23/7 because its so easy to destroy a ship. I do not want to spend hours making random book marks while getting shot at, I want to spend time uninterrupted then dodge being shot at with them. I do not want to start from scratch over again, already made the trip once. I do not want to spend my time aquiring enough isk to barely afford a single ship, only to loose it as soon as I undock to boring 1999 EQ1 consepts of camping, snaring, and level loss. You want hard mode? Try this: Loose your ship, get pod popped, then undock without updating your clone while you empty your wallet and destroy all your assets. BAM! Reset, let me know how much fun that is. I choose to avoid PVP and will participate when I feel like it, but at anytime you can come along and destroy my marauder if you choose; but you will have to accept the fact that it won't be easy and will cost you a loss to CONCORD as I ply along collecting min-wage rewards

Jayem See
Caldari
Alien Ruffneck Force
Ignes Immortalis
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:38:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Taseer
Edited by: Taseer on 15/08/2011 15:33:56
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Cambarus
TBH I'm sick of seeing people claim that 0.0 is safe, or, even more absurd, that it is safer than highsec. There is a lot you can do in nullsec (and even wh space) to MINIMIZE the risk, but these are all things that cost a lot of isk, or a lot of time/people (and therefore, isk). It may be fairly easy not to lose ships often in nullsec if you're very experienced in doing so, but even if that is the case, you still take a much larger risk by being out there than you would in highsec. The fact that the isk you can make while in concord protected space rivals the isk you can make in nullsec is absurd.


Don't you think the trillions of isk passively generated each month in moon mins might compensate and then some for the isk costs of making space safe?
Trillions of isk split between how many people? And that isk actually IS at risk, because there is little, if anything, from stopping someone else from taking it from you.


No,

I think it's bo-locks.

It's a block on the way that the rest of Eve works. Nothing else is so fixed so why should moon-goo be.

I don't like it personally. I don't like that it affects me and it isn't regional/changeable/non-static like everything else.

Frankly it's wrong.

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:41:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: RAW23
Don't you think the trillions of isk passively generated each month in moon mins might compensate and then some for the isk costs of making space safe?

are those trillions in your wallet? my wallet doesn't know them. I live in 0.0 but i make money "active way".

"Trillions" come to alliance. But risk in 0.0 belongs to regular citizens.

Oosel
The Riot Formation
KRYSIS.
Posted - 2011.08.15 15:43:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Vaako Horizon
Originally by: Oosel
so what if it all gets moved out to 0.0 for those who dont want a part of it they will just go and do lvl3's instead as long as it means you dont have to get involved in gank fests or 0.0 politics then fair play to them. you will not force people into 0.0 no matter how much you take away from high sec because for a very large portion of eves playerbase the pain that is 0.0 and low sec will never appeal. why do you think loads of 0.0 players have alts in high sec just because they want a break and heres the big bit and some fun without the hassle of 0.0 so what if you dont earn billions as long as you still enjoy the game then let the 0.0 guys have it all because i know some days when i have an hour only to play then high sec gives me my eve fix and 0.0 will never provide that


If we high sec pve runners get thrown down to lvl 3 missions it goes towards pointless and then its time to leave the game.
Its a game about flying spaceships ( among other things ) but we high sec'er arent even allowed to fly some of the ships :P

I whould be happy to pay a little extra for a non pvp subscription which allowed my immunity from it and total banishment from pvp. ( including account punishment if I was ever found to be involved in pvp in any way/shape/form )


you can still fly those ships if you want it would just take you longer and ive asked myself a lot how bad would it have to be before i left but for me nothing comes close to my eve experience even lvl3 missions would entertain id just use a smaller ship.....

the shiney stuff is nice but how often do most people put that on line in pvp. i play in both 0.0 and high sec but once lvl4's go to 0.0 ill park the shiney stuff up and probably spend more time in the cheaper stuff in 0.0 because no matter how much spin you put on 0.0 lvl4's in 0.0 will never happen for most people as its pve you wont make a predominantly pve playerbase want to engage in pvp no matter how lucrative because its never going to appeal to them


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