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GizzyBoy
Posted - 2011.08.20 05:57:00 - [331]
 

Originally by: Grady Eltoren
Originally by: James Duar
Really complicated 5 step click fest in how to turn items into a deep branching convoluted mess


WOW - THIS! GREAT POST. Gotta agree with this.


I take it this is one of your meta gaming alts?
You must be crazy to make the simple task of breaking down an item into "stuff" able to be used to build other "Stuff"

The only item worth consideration is to add recycling queues to turn items into there base components with an cost based on time taken to break down.

but for the love of god no new skill to do this, just a straight time based on item type/size

James Duar
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.20 09:51:00 - [332]
 

Edited by: James Duar on 20/08/2011 09:59:29
Originally by: GizzyBoy
Originally by: Grady Eltoren
Originally by: James Duar
Really complicated 5 step click fest in how to turn items into a deep branching convoluted mess


WOW - THIS! GREAT POST. Gotta agree with this.


I take it this is one of your meta gaming alts?
You must be crazy to make the simple task of breaking down an item into "stuff" able to be used to build other "Stuff"

The only item worth consideration is to add recycling queues to turn items into there base components with an cost based on time taken to break down.

but for the love of god no new skill to do this, just a straight time based on item type/size


Not an alt of mine.

You could note I never said to add more skills. Mining has tons of skills associated with it already: refining and scrapmetal reprocessing are skills that are already in the game, so obviously they should have some effect on the efficiency of extra refining steps.

Also worth nothing: "recycling" queues don't make any sense without the rest of the changes (which are not so complicated, just hard to explain concisely and clearly). The whole point is to put mining on top as the way to get minerals easily, and to require more commitment and organization to use "side-channel" sources of minerals.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.20 12:12:00 - [333]
 

Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 20/08/2011 12:13:27
WOOT! Finally! After three weeks...

Common Perimeter Deposit.

Don't worry... I somehow don't think you'll see much of an effect on Jita prices... Rolling Eyes In case anyone is wondering what this means... after three weeks, we can now mine:

Arkonor 10k
Bistol 15k
Crokite 20k
Dark Ochre 10k
Gneiss 20k
Hedbergite 60k
Jaspet 100k
Kernite 150k
Omber 150k
Plagioclase 450k
Pyroxeres 260k
Scordite 240k
Spodumain 15k

Seriously, no veldspar?

That wasn't a disturbance in the force you felt... that was the force yawning.

Kleg Nighthawk
Posted - 2011.08.20 12:50:00 - [334]
 

Edited by: Kleg Nighthawk on 20/08/2011 12:58:26
If you want 99% of items used in null sec to be provided from null sec then the biggest volu,e items that need to be addressed are the low value minerals. as Minerals should primarily be produced through mining and not loot dropps 0.0 needs a greater supply of these mins.
I have two suggestions to remedy this.
First the ore types remove the 5% and 10% greater yield ores and depending on the sec of the system replace them with higher yield ores, not sure on the % but it would need to be substantial for this to work something like 5% & 6% per sec level so a -1.0 will 20 times the bonus (remember you start from +1.0)this would give -1.0 220% the yield of +1.0.

Now this only gives extra bonus to low sec and doesn't encourage team work as I know CCP want to do. My other suggestion is as follows.

And for the love of god do something about the drone regions. 0.0 is ruled by who ever has the most supers. supers need masses of minerals drone region supplies a disproportionately high volume of minerals and guess who rules null sec, you guessed it, those that live in the drone regions. This game was broken way back when those regiuns were added
it's just taken this long for the effect to filter through.
leave the roid balance as is but create a new mining class of mining ship that can only opperate in low/null sec. To do this it's going to have to be a capital ship with jump drives to prevent it going into empire so no gate travel. (unless there is a different way of stopping ships going to highsec but still use gates).

Now as Null sec is to be all about reward being higher AND risk being higher I suggest this ship needs to be in some form os stationary mode to mine making it very vulnerable to roams if there are not scouts several systems out. this will also make mining a more sociable thing. It's dull as ever on your own but in groups TS banter makes it bareable.

On a side note and I know a few individualy will hate this with a passion it will remove the Skiff/Mackinaw/Hulk BPO owners ability to almost print isk, those strangle holds will be broken. It's only going to be a few individuals so I hope CCP have the steel to withstand their tantrums.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.08.20 13:36:00 - [335]
 

Originally by: Kleg Nighthawk
...And for the love of god do something about the drone regions....

To be fair, from the outside the Russian dominance of the DR looked very fragile in the months after Dominion, fragile enough that a short campaign could have ousted them.
Why blame them for the rest of nulls complacency and willingness to 'make do' with trillions from the Sanctums?

Not saying that alloys shouldn't have another round through Nerfinator9000, but the Russian super-dominance has more to do with nulls ISK greed in general than anything else .. DR are not called "the capital nursery" for nothing you know (was Dreads/Carriers, now SCs/Titans).

The power of the DR stems from the fact that you can acquire minerals using pew AND mining both, introduce such a mechanic for mining in general (see my linked concept on p.1) and all of Eve could have the same 'advantage'.

Kendra Wilkinson
Posted - 2011.08.20 14:23:00 - [336]
 

hey Greyscale, serious question here.

I'm the happy dad of a little boy and while i'm licking my giant unlimited ice cube i play with my son, feed him, cooking some stuff, often he falls asleep on me and sometimes we are just chillin behind a anime.

if you have child you can easily understand that's it very hard to do something witch require some attention when they decide it's time to get some love.

so in your master plan to nerf hi sec and make impossible to "play" and keeping care of child in same time, what's gameplay offer you?

Cuhlen
Tower of Ravens
The Laughing Men
Posted - 2011.08.20 14:24:00 - [337]
 

Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza

How am I wrong? Care to refute anything about it?
The reason why hisec manufacturers and miners don't venture into 0.0 is because it isn't worth their time for the most part (they say it themselves), and isn't worth the time of the holding alliance either. Because hisec is in the end more profitable due to its lack of incurred expenses (in both time and ISK) and total safety. They say as much on the forums nonstop, but noone believes them.

Now I'm going to assume you know about the idea of supply and demand, right?
While demand for low-end mins in hisec is high, the supply is so incredibly swamped by people who have no recourse to competition other then to cut prices even lower that CCP has had to readjust insurance ratings because blowing up insured battleships in Jita became a full time occupation. Put yourself in the nullsec supercap builder's shoes: where would you rather buy your millions of trit and pyerite from? The expense-laden, limited supply and unstable 0.0 market, or from the endless supply of mining serfs always undercutting each other in hisec? And with the cover of an NPC corp freighter alt, moving the ultra-cheap labors of hisec to 0.0 is easy as cake.

So why would an 0.0 corp/alliance leader take in your miner to buy your trit at 4.00 ISK in 0.0, when he can just as easily buy your trit in hi for 2.2 ISK?
The safety of NPC corps has massive consequences, not just for individual players, but the world and the economy they play a part in.



Increasing the reward is not going to solve the fundamental problems with 0.0 mining. Problems that have been stated over and over in this thread. Industrial corps are treated as second-hand citizens in most 0.0 alliances, exorbiant leases, etc... The way 0.0 is run today, mining is always going to be a crap job.

And last, for about the zillionth time, if you want to raise the value of minerals, deal with the macro miners. It should be a trivial thing to code a system that can detect 'likely' macro miners, flag them, etc.

Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza

So why would an 0.0 corp/alliance leader take in your miner to buy your trit at 4.00 ISK in 0.0, when he can just as easily buy your trit in hi for 2.2 ISK?


At some level - this is the price of moving to 0.0, where raw resources are in abundance, but the infrastructure is not in place to take advantage of it. This is the fault of 0.0, how it is structured and what goes on in it. People move out to 0.0 for the challenge, right? They move out there precisely because it is less safe and there are fewer rules/no concord, etc. So what I do not understand is why all the complaining about it not being as lucractive to mine trit in 0.0 as it is in hs? OF COURSE ITS NOT, that's the nature of the beast that is 0.0.







Woodiex3
Posted - 2011.08.20 14:49:00 - [338]
 

how about changing mining ships to have double drones
but only 5 max mining drones

also the able to use warp scram drones to.


Vil Mahona
Posted - 2011.08.20 15:44:00 - [339]
 

Edited by: Vil Mahona on 20/08/2011 21:00:49
Edited by: Vil Mahona on 20/08/2011 15:45:59
The fixing of 0.0 and Mining is a combination of fixes to various parts of the game.

1: Other than basic Veld/Scordite for the noobies, move the roid belts to grav sites that you have to scan down, and as one site depletes it auto re-spawns somewhere else in the system. That way no TZ has an advantage over the other. I'd say a minimum of 4 Gravs per system so we miners are not bounceing off each other to finish off a site.

2: Ice gets moved to it's own Grav, instant respawn when it depletes but you could have say 2 per constellation and they random spawn around the constellation.

3: "Ore/Ice Density" varies by true sec of the system as has been mentioned. so I get 200/300% more Trit out of a veld roid in a -1.00 vs a 1.00 that will give me more incentive to mine when I'm out in 0.0.

4: Drones have bounties instead of dropping mins like they do currently. no more ratting for mins

5: No Module drops on rats, building modules is only way to get modules. Have a new process to create the Meta 1 to 4 modules using the Meta 0 module. As mentioned elsewhere. have the rats drop a tag/BPC that is used to produce the Meta 1 to 4 module.

6: Module volume must be greater than the sum of the parts used to make it. ie. no more 2 freighter loads of 1400's for a SC. That will help provide some incentive for the 0.0 big boys to care about having an actual industrial side to the alliance so mining takes place as you wouldn't think of trying to move long distances all the mins needed for a SC/Titan.

7: Mining ships need a buff, so that they can really fit a tank and are somewhat safe. ie. not an easy gank like the Mack that can't fit a tank.

8: Upgrade POS refineries so we don't have the waste. ie let us perfect skill toons be able to get 95% + out of a POS refinery. Course need to re-do POS's, but that's a diferent topic

long enough wall of text for the moment.

Hastrin
Posted - 2011.08.20 16:18:00 - [340]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
According to the latest data I have, 27% of Arkonor, 21% of Bistot and 25% of Crokite is mined in wormholes (including the improved ores).

If you assume the standard T1 1:4:16:64:256:1024:4096 relationship between different ore needs (which is skewed further away from the highends if you're concentrating on stuff like ammo, IIRC), and if you assume that all the veldspar mined in w-space is used for production (which incidentally is something like 0.7% of total veld mined, and I'm ignoring trit from other ores here), there's approximately 100 times more megacyte being mined in w-space than is needed for production; that "100x" number goes up the more ammo is being built, and it goes up if you factor in trit from other ores. It's hard to see what people would be doing with all that mega other than selling it on the market.



if you assume T1 production this is a good story. however who produces T1 in a wormhole? caps (in c1-4), fighters, and T3. so shouldnt the grav sites scale towards the ore needed to make the T3? i think that as long as the miners can mine enough to keep the T3 production going everyone is happy

main question still remains. if wh space mines ~25% of all the ores, how much actual high end minerals does this produce. and what % of the total market is that. because we know dronepoo makes a lot or ores as well

Shin Dari
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.20 16:40:00 - [341]
 

Edited by: Shin Dari on 20/08/2011 16:48:53
Originally by: Vil Mahona
Edited by: Vil Mahona on 20/08/2011 15:45:59
The fixing of 0.0 and Mining is a combination of fixes to various parts of the game.

1: Other than basic Veld/Scordite for the noobies, move the roid belts to grav sites that you have to scan down, and as one site depletes it auto re-spawns somewhere else in the system. That way no TZ has an advantage over the other. I'd say a minimum of 4 Gravs per system so we miners are not bounceing off each other to finish off a site.

2: Ice gets moved to it's own Grav, instant respawn when it depletes but you could have say 2 per constellation and they random spawn around the constellation.

3: "Ore/Ice Density" varies by true sec of the system as has been mentioned. so I get 200/300% more Trit out of a veld roid in a -1.00 vs a 1.00 that will give me more incentive to mine when I'm out in 0.0.

4: Drones have bounties instead of dropping mins like they do currently. no more ratting for mins

5: No Module drops on rats, building modules is only way to get modules. Have a new process to create the Meta 1 to 4 modules using the Meta 0 module. As mentioned elsewhere. have the rats drop a tag/BPC that is used to produce the Meta 1 to 4 module.

6: Module volume must be greater than the sum of the parts used to make it. ie. no more 2 freighter loads of 1400's for a SC. That will help provide some incentive for the 0.0 big boys to care about having an actual industrial side to the alliance so mining takes place as you wouldn't think of trying to move long distances all the mins needed for a SC/Titan.

7: Mining ships need a buff, so that they can really fit a tank and are somewhat safe. ie. not an easy gank like the Mack that can't fit a tank.

long enough wall of text for the moment.
QFT

Also CCP, please make it so that:
- all mining vessels can properly mount probe launchers.
- improve reprocessing/refining facilities for POS towers & outposts.
- Give all POS towers & outposts 1 free manufacturing line


coolzero
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.20 16:57:00 - [342]
 

Originally by: Vil Mahona
Edited by: Vil Mahona on 20/08/2011 15:45:59
The fixing of 0.0 and Mining is a combination of fixes to various parts of the game.

1: Other than basic Veld/Scordite for the noobies, move the roid belts to grav sites that you have to scan down, and as one site depletes it auto re-spawns somewhere else in the system. That way no TZ has an advantage over the other. I'd say a minimum of 4 Gravs per system so we miners are not bounceing off each other to finish off a site.

2: Ice gets moved to it's own Grav, instant respawn when it depletes but you could have say 2 per constellation and they random spawn around the constellation.

3: "Ore/Ice Density" varies by true sec of the system as has been mentioned. so I get 200/300% more Trit out of a veld roid in a -1.00 vs a 1.00 that will give me more incentive to mine when I'm out in 0.0.

4: Drones have bounties instead of dropping mins like they do currently. no more ratting for mins

5: No Module drops on rats, building modules is only way to get modules. Have a new process to create the Meta 1 to 4 modules using the Meta 0 module. As mentioned elsewhere. have the rats drop a tag/BPC that is used to produce the Meta 1 to 4 module.

6: Module volume must be greater than the sum of the parts used to make it. ie. no more 2 freighter loads of 1400's for a SC. That will help provide some incentive for the 0.0 big boys to care about having an actual industrial side to the alliance so mining takes place as you wouldn't think of trying to move long distances all the mins needed for a SC/Titan.

7: Mining ships need a buff, so that they can really fit a tank and are somewhat safe. ie. not an easy gank like the Mack that can't fit a tank.

long enough wall of text for the moment.


+1

and maby have a extra slot on mining ship for a special probe launcher, and indeed as point 7 able to fit some better tank(or t3 mining ship.)

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.20 18:36:00 - [343]
 

Originally by: Vil Mahona
Edited by: Vil Mahona on 20/08/2011 15:45:59
The fixing of 0.0 and Mining is a combination of fixes to various parts of the game.

1: Other than basic Veld/Scordite for the noobies, move the roid belts to grav sites that you have to scan down, and as one site depletes it auto re-spawns somewhere else in the system. That way no TZ has an advantage over the other. I'd say a minimum of 4 Gravs per system so we miners are not bounceing off each other to finish off a site.

2: Ice gets moved to it's own Grav, instant respawn when it depletes but you could have say 2 per constellation and they random spawn around the constellation.

3: "Ore/Ice Density" varies by true sec of the system as has been mentioned. so I get 200/300% more Trit out of a veld roid in a -1.00 vs a 1.00 that will give me more incentive to mine when I'm out in 0.0.

4: Drones have bounties instead of dropping mins like they do currently. no more ratting for mins

5: No Module drops on rats, building modules is only way to get modules. Have a new process to create the Meta 1 to 4 modules using the Meta 0 module. As mentioned elsewhere. have the rats drop a tag/BPC that is used to produce the Meta 1 to 4 module.

6: Module volume must be greater than the sum of the parts used to make it. ie. no more 2 freighter loads of 1400's for a SC. That will help provide some incentive for the 0.0 big boys to care about having an actual industrial side to the alliance so mining takes place as you wouldn't think of trying to move long distances all the mins needed for a SC/Titan.

7: Mining ships need a buff, so that they can really fit a tank and are somewhat safe. ie. not an easy gank like the Mack that can't fit a tank.

long enough wall of text for the moment.


another +1 here.


Skip the probe launchers though. Yeah it makes it harder for the "solo" guy ... but this is a MULTIPLAYER game, no?

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2011.08.20 19:38:00 - [344]
 

remove perfect recycling. nothing is free, not even from best friends or with thermodynamics 5/5.

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.08.20 19:43:00 - [345]
 

Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 20/08/2011 19:43:27
Originally by: Cuhlen

Increasing the reward is not going to solve the fundamental problems with 0.0 mining. Problems that have been stated over and over in this thread. Industrial corps are treated as second-hand citizens in most 0.0 alliances, exorbiant leases, etc... The way 0.0 is run today, mining is always going to be a crap job.

And last, for about the zillionth time, if you want to raise the value of minerals, deal with the macro miners. It should be a trivial thing to code a system that can detect 'likely' macro miners, flag them, etc.
You open by denouncing an "increase in reward", something I have suggested nowhere, then segue into a rant about the mistreatment of industrial characters in 0.0 by big mean nullsec leaders. Why are you taking the mistreatment of prospective 0.0 indies so personally instead of what it is; the reality of the current requirements and needs of the modern 0.0 alliance. They don't need industrialists that charge more, deliver less and oblige the 0.0 alliance to defend the indy player. Not when they can buy the fruits of NPC corp labor, which is cheaper (due to mechanics that forbid direct competition), greater in quantity (because of 23/7 Concord protection) and totally free of strings or risk. If taking on low-level industrialists was a good idea, the alliances that did that (like CVA) would be the ones running nullsec. But it isn't, and the current order of the day proves that.

As for macro miners, making the vast majority of them attackable by taking away the protection of their NPC corps would also make great strides in that department as well.

Originally by: Cuhlen

Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza

So why would an 0.0 corp/alliance leader take in your miner to buy your trit at 4.00 ISK in 0.0, when he can just as easily buy your trit in hi for 2.2 ISK?


At some level - this is the price of moving to 0.0, where raw resources are in abundance, but the infrastructure is not in place to take advantage of it. This is the fault of 0.0, how it is structured and what goes on in it. People move out to 0.0 for the challenge, right? They move out there precisely because it is less safe and there are fewer rules/no concord, etc. So what I do not understand is why all the complaining about it not being as lucractive to mine trit in 0.0 as it is in hs? OF COURSE ITS NOT, that's the nature of the beast that is 0.0.

A large number of trades being less profitable then the rookie systems I really doubt is the intended "nature of the beast" of 0.0. People from hisec love to complain about the barriers keeping them and their mining guy out of nullsec, but get very defensive when it's pointed out that those barriers are an acknowledgment of the reality that the majority of mining in 0.0 is pointless thanks to the anti-competitive nature of hisec and its ease of access due to jump freighters.

Creetalor
Caldari
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.08.21 01:20:00 - [346]
 

If you put Ice mining nullsec and/or lowsec only your looking at a big problem for the economy.The mackinaw and other barges are the only ships that can do it the cycle time takes forever and its not like the mackinaw which is designed for it can be really hugely tanked I know a he plugged the resistance holes and only had 5k Effective hp with his skills roughly. Systems with ice in them will be permacamped by 1-2 bombers just lieing in wait they uncloak and 1 volley the barge if they got good skills and everything starts from the beginning.

Also you would utterly ruin small corporations who can not afford buying ice products and mine it to lower the costs of the tower Nullsec will probably use up most of the supply and even if they could make millions hauling it out of null the chance of them being able to mine their need of ice will be slim.

Sett Risalo
Posted - 2011.08.21 01:32:00 - [347]
 

Making minerals more valuable is a no brainer! Just increase the amount needed, add more to t2 and t3 construction, and your done.

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.08.21 02:43:00 - [348]
 

Originally by: Sett Risalo
Making minerals more valuable is a no brainer! Just increase the amount needed, add more to t2 and t3 construction, and your done.
That would make the product more valuable, not the minerals.

El 1974
Posted - 2011.08.21 06:43:00 - [349]
 

Edited by: El 1974 on 21/08/2011 06:43:46
Originally by: Sett Risalo
Making minerals more valuable is a no brainer! Just increase the amount needed, add more to t2 and t3 construction, and your done.


Reduce the amount needed, so you can no longer compress minerals by producing worthless crap in hisec and moving it to nullsec. Also reducing the amount of minerals contained in mission loot. That will make mining low-end ores in 0.0 more needed and viable.

I think the mere existence of CVA shows that we don't really need any major changes to make mining and industry in 0.0 viable. Maybe CCP should ask them what they need.

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.08.21 06:58:00 - [350]
 

Originally by: El 1974

Reduce the amount needed, so you can no longer compress minerals by producing worthless crap in hisec and moving it to nullsec. Also reducing the amount of minerals contained in mission loot. That will make mining low-end ores in 0.0 more needed and viable.

I think the mere existence of CVA shows that we don't really need any major changes to make mining and industry in 0.0 viable. Maybe CCP should ask them what they need.
CVA leadership has said they have always operated at a loss, and it's not a stretch to say CVA exists despite, not because of their use of NRDS.

Rocky Deadshot
Posted - 2011.08.21 12:54:00 - [351]
 

Quit suggesting removing anything from hi sec. That would fly in the face of new player attraction and retention, which should be CCP's primary focus. AND it would greatly **** up the market to move **** to null only.

Instead extend the idea of increasing densities and payouts for true sec. Mining is an extreamly boring task, and I feel that alot of ice miners really wouldn't want to put the risk in to move and get established in null sec just to be blown up on an hourly process.

Juil
Gallente
Phoenix Industries Pty. Ltd.
Posted - 2011.08.21 14:37:00 - [352]
 

Not that my 2 cents is likely worth much to CCP.

1. Making Ice Non Infinate - Agree with.. NO material in this game in HIGH, LOW OR NULL sec should be Infinate, why should ice be able to be mined indefinantly while my roids go pop?

2. Moving shifting my ore etc isn't going to get me to go into NULL sec.. sorry.. but that's the truth.. there is very little at the moment that makes a null sec run with mining equipment even worth the RISK because the Reward definantly is not there, Why would I risk 1 billion isk (roughly) in ships and that's just say an Orca + 2 hulks in Null sec when hey any moron can jump in and blow me up in less time then it takes to sneeze. Not to mention that you have to GET them into NULL space to begin with..

3. You remove the current ores from high sec you watch people start to quit and half the economy crash. You already NURFED the hell out of High Sec, it's damned near impossible in some regions to get some of the so called 'Common' roids, I mean hell look at the discriptions for the ores 'Common enough that any miner should come across it' Really? because some of those i've not seen in 3+ years.

4. Why should i be forced to go be looked down on by people who think that 'PVP' means only blowing things up. and that because they can form alliances with 1000+ people they are better.. PVP doesn't mean blowing up ships.. PVP simply means Player Vs Player, that isn't necessaryly combat, but also INDUSTRY and ECONOMICS. So mining = PVP in it's own form.

5. You want me to mine in null sec? First off make it so that the person who is going to try and blow up my billion isk + worth of mining gear actually has to do more then: Jump into the system, Look at local, Jump to each belt until he finds me, blow me up.

Instead make it so that he has to actually WORK to find me, make it so that belts have to be scanned.. Mining vessels can find the belts instantly.. but other vessels have to scan the belts down. This gives miners a measure of protection while making those who hunt them for kicks have to work for it.. heck if you make it so that the scanning for miners stillr equires some interaction you at least screw up the bots a little.

6. Give miners a boost so that they have at least a chance, as it stands a hulk is 250mil and can be basically be 3 cycled by a battleship at the most even while TANKING.

7. Make it at least possible to get to and from null - high sec with mining gear. OR make it so that Null sec has more places for people who don't want to be part of alliances to work out of.

8. Make it so that 1 alliance can't control 100+ systems that they aren't even using for the most part. That = a big part of what stops people from getting into NULL.. the fact you have 20 people bubling a gate and no chance to get into it.

9. At least give me the option to not be bored out of my brain while mining. How am I mean to even defend myself when I'm alt-tab'ed out to do something else because mining is that dull i can watch a movie or play another game at the same time as I'm doing it?

Niohkarla
Caldari
DucKtape Unlimited
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.21 14:44:00 - [353]
 

Il share my 2 cents:

1- isk/hrs mining should be more/less depending of the trusec of the system, not the type of minerals, so having veldspar rock that yield as much as ABCs in a -0.9 system would help alot (yes I know ABC should be worht more but not 10-20X more), and also have more onf the low ends ore (qte in rocks), I remember too well when for my alliance we had to clear all the veldspar of 6-8belts just to have enuff trit

2- a T3 mining ship that could be inspired from the Tengu, call it the behemoth. a barge whit modules, so we could choose over defence/ofence/mining capabilites/cargo - imagine a barge whit 5 stip miners almost noshield and 2500m3 of cargo? a barge that could use covert ops cloak? or a barge that could use 8 heavy drones? Or a barge whit 100000m3 of space but 1 highslot?

3- a capital mining ship - call it Leviathan: 6 highslot, capable of using all the stip miners + the abilities to use the Capital strip miner: it has 2 mode, 1: harvesting mode- it can literaly tractor beam all the chuck of roids in a zone (2000m from target) that is less then(for example) 20 000m3 and chunk it in its cargo bay. 2- a remote asteroids breaker that would chunk off pieces of (20 000m3, what a coninsidence). we could need to process the chunk further before refining, of use them directly in refinerys and the chunk could be compressed too be the rorq. This ship should not compress or be able to use link module but should be like other caps, jumpdrive only, nice cargohold and maybe a industrial ship hangar. The process of breaking down the roids could event be done with missiles/other ships and only use the Leviatan as a huge vacumcleaner.

that where my 2 cents

S8nt
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.21 14:59:00 - [354]
 

Originally by: Niohkarla
Il share my 2 cents:

1- isk/hrs mining should be more/less depending of the trusec of the system, not the type of minerals, so having veldspar rock that yield as much as ABCs in a -0.9 system would help alot (yes I know ABC should be worht more but not 10-20X more), and also have more onf the low ends ore (qte in rocks), I remember too well when for my alliance we had to clear all the veldspar of 6-8belts just to have enuff trit

2- a T3 mining ship that could be inspired from the Tengu, call it the behemoth. a barge whit modules, so we could choose over defence/ofence/mining capabilites/cargo - imagine a barge whit 5 stip miners almost noshield and 2500m3 of cargo? a barge that could use covert ops cloak? or a barge that could use 8 heavy drones? Or a barge whit 100000m3 of space but 1 highslot?

3- a capital mining ship - call it Leviathan: 6 highslot, capable of using all the stip miners + the abilities to use the Capital strip miner: it has 2 mode, 1: harvesting mode- it can literaly tractor beam all the chuck of roids in a zone (2000m from target) that is less then(for example) 20 000m3 and chunk it in its cargo bay. 2- a remote asteroids breaker that would chunk off pieces of (20 000m3, what a coninsidence). we could need to process the chunk further before refining, of use them directly in refinerys and the chunk could be compressed too be the rorq. This ship should not compress or be able to use link module but should be like other caps, jumpdrive only, nice cargohold and maybe a industrial ship hangar. The process of breaking down the roids could event be done with missiles/other ships and only use the Leviatan as a huge vacumcleaner.

that where my 2 cents


Leviathan is the name of the Caldari titan ;)

Mindnut
Posted - 2011.08.21 15:19:00 - [355]
 

Originally by: Niohkarla
Il share my 2 cents:

2- a T3 mining ship that could be inspired from the Tengu, call it the behemoth. a barge whit modules, so we could choose over defence/ofence/mining capabilites/cargo - imagine a barge whit 5 stip miners almost noshield and 2500m3 of cargo? a barge that could use covert ops cloak? or a barge that could use 8 heavy drones? Or a barge whit 100000m3 of space but 1 highslot?



I like when CCP adds now ships but adding a new mining ship is just going to render Hulks being used less. Also, new ship would be available to everybody so if it's a buff version of Hulk it'll buff both low and high sec mining in time making the prices or minerals go down again.

So, as much as I'd like to see more ships added to the game I think the least needed class of ships to be expanded are barges/exhumers.

Thomas Turnpoint
Posted - 2011.08.21 15:46:00 - [356]
 

My favorite idea so far is moving just about everything to gravimetric sites.
Taken at face value, that does seem to be a decent option for solving the issue of bots. Doing the same thing with ice is just as good. Even if the ice was still "infinite", the grav site would only last 3 days.

On the other hand, the comments by Greyscale make me wonder if all these so called feedback threads are just a form of entertainment for the devs. Poke a stick in the cage and rile up the players for a good laugh.

Niohkarla
Caldari
DucKtape Unlimited
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.21 15:58:00 - [357]
 

Edited by: Niohkarla on 21/08/2011 16:07:30
Edited by: Niohkarla on 21/08/2011 16:00:02 seems some word where replaced by *****
Originally by: S8nt


Leviathan is the name of the Caldari titan ;)


oupps my bad =) didnt look up the name before posting this, just went with huge "animals" name

Originally by: Mindnut


I like when CCP adds now ships but adding a new mining ship is just going to render Hulks being used less. Also, new ship would be available to everybody so if it's a buff version of Hulk it'll buff both low and high sec mining in time making the prices or minerals go down again.

So, as much as I'd like to see more ships added to the game I think the least needed class of ships to be expanded are barges/exhumers.


true =/ didnt thin about highsec but I do think barge/exhumer could be a litle more resilliant it ticks me off to get blown up so fast, plus barge/exhumers are worth alot of point in KB compare to the challenge of blowing one up.


Thur Barbek
Posted - 2011.08.21 19:41:00 - [358]
 

Originally by: El 1974
Edited by: El 1974 on 21/08/2011 06:43:46
Originally by: Sett Risalo
Making minerals more valuable is a no brainer! Just increase the amount needed, add more to t2 and t3 construction, and your done.


Reduce the amount needed, so you can no longer compress minerals by producing worthless crap in hisec and moving it to nullsec. Also reducing the amount of minerals contained in mission loot. That will make mining low-end ores in 0.0 more needed and viable.



Reducing the mineral cost of modules would actually increase the value of compression. Reducing the refine amount would hurt compression.

Matthew
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
Posted - 2011.08.21 21:01:00 - [359]
 

Ice Mining

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Thinking about it a bit, not sure where we're going to go. We might not change it at all, we might just make hisec belts deplete (and regen as normal) so they can roughly meet hisec demand.


Very much in favour of changing ice mining in high-sec rather than removing it. While I take on board the point you make about mining filling a "not exciting" niche, I think the current state of ice mining takes it too far. I'd like to see ice rocks popping more often in high-sec, up to about the same frequency as roids would pop, provided the associated respawn was fast enough to keep up with high-sec demand. Keeping the null-sec ice as far more plentiful will reinforce the impression that null-sec is more rich in resources (as well as the ice types themselves being better)

If you want to make an element of ice null-sec only, then I would go with Strontium Clathrates. POS reinforced mode is something that could reasonably be made a premium item in high-sec, given the wardec mechanics, and the other uses of it are things you want to encourage into null-sec anyway. Would it with high-sec being able to supply itself with the basics, but needing null-sec for the advanced elements.

If you are willing to do a bit of worldshaping, you could also shift the high-sec belts towards the fringes of high-sec space. That is where most of the high-sec POS are going to be anyway due to faction standing need trending them towards the 0.5's, and you could align them with the null-sec access pipe hubs we talked about in previous threads to help stimulate trade in those areas.

Wormhole Mining

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
According to the latest data I have, 27% of Arkonor, 21% of Bistot and 25% of Crokite is mined in wormholes (including the improved ores).


Surprised it is as high as that, can see why you are looking at it.

I think the problem with ABC ores in WH boils down to the same issue of transportational efficiency as I detailed in response to your first blog. Exporting goods from a wormhole is very volume-dependant, and high-end minerals have a good isk/m3 ratio, which is probably what is making them attractive.

However, given that the high-end minerals are also needed in the lowest volume for typical manufacturing, they are the easiest to restrict access to in WH space as it would mean relatively little importation volume. Though clearly the importation difficulty increases the deeper into the WH space structure you go, so there would be an argument for high-end access improving the deeper you go.

However, this value/volume balance also opens up the possibility of extending "super-veld" into WH space. This would make it far easier for WH residents to obtain their low-end requirements, to balance out the increased difficulty of the high-ends. Just as I previously argued why I don't think you'll see lots of trit exported from null-sec, it isn't going to be attractive to use limited WH volume to export the low-end minerals.

banton
Posted - 2011.08.21 23:44:00 - [360]
 

I started eve as a miner and still love the relaxing time it provides (god know's it not for the ISK).
If I were King of eve mining for a day i would:
1. Have warrents that can be put on a beacon equipted on a mining or hauling ship only to make NPC rats leave you alone. each rat type would have there own and you could loot them from the NPC :) or buy in there stations.
2. allow for a cap sized ship with special warp stab and shields to allow it to be able to run when needed and mount special strip miners that use a plasma bomb to liquify a rock then suck it up. using in .5+ would be a hostle act. In addition, this can be fired at a ship, and do damage.



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