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digitalwanderer
Gallente
DF0 incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.12 21:52:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: digitalwanderer on 12/08/2011 21:56:06
While i'm at it and to make my view perfectly clear, it's about time a developer developed some balls and really pushed the PC platform to see what all these latest multi core CPU's with nice DX11 graphics cards and having GB of ram can really do, and not try to create their game to run on pretty much anything out there just for the sake of extra sales even if it means diluting the final game from what it could be, both visually and gameplay wise.


That includes console hardware that's already 5~6 years old so it's pretty long on the tooth to say the least, so considering that Dust 514 is a PS3 exclusive i'm not expecting to be blown away in the visuals dept, meaning it has to be very kickass on the gameplay aspect to stand any chance on the market and simply not be just another FPS game with multiplayer, wich for those that haven't noticed, there's tons of them for the PS3 already...

AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
Posted - 2011.08.12 21:58:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Herping yourDerp
yea i saw, but compare it too 360 sales. or even PS3 sales.... also i did make a new post stating that, even combining with steam sales 1million for a battlefield title on its "primary platform" maybe people will get it when BF3 sells more on xbox then on PC.


You need to compare hypothetical scenarios.

The highly marketed games will always sell in high volume on the PS3, but the cost of an awareness marketing campaign is massive - DICE are going to spend $100 mill in marketing for BF3, how much is CCP going to spend?

Now, I think we can assume DICE are going to get their money back - even if they don't initially, they licence their toolset - CCP do not, so the only money they can get back is sales of the core product and any vanity sales from the game.

If results are low, how are they going to get their money back?

They will still need to pay for EVE maintenance, plus the usual marketing expenditure to keep new sub levels high, so there is no money that can be taken from there. They are still in development for WoD, so can't reduce lowering costs there as they need to get that onto the market asap [certainly whilst Vampires movies are being made for teenagers] but that is probably some time off.

Where's the money coming from and will it be enough to grease the marketing wheels to make Dust a success?

Tugrath Akers
Posted - 2011.08.12 21:59:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: AlleyKat
Where's the money coming from and will it be enough to grease the marketing wheels to make Dust a success?


Monocles. And pants.

digitalwanderer
Gallente
DF0 incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.12 22:11:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: AlleyKat


Where's the money coming from and will it be enough to grease the marketing wheels to make Dust a success?



Honestly, given that the battlefield series has existed for nearly 10 years now(battlefield 1942 was released in 2002), and many versions covering different time periods/locations released since then, one would have to live in a sealed cave for an entire decade with no access to any sort of information to not know what battefield is all about...Razz


For me it was the 12 minute video released on youtube showing actual gameplay footage...Here's the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zw8SmsovJc


This is what dust 514 is going up against...Shocked

Diamaht Nevain
Gallente
Avatar Union
Posted - 2011.08.12 22:18:00 - [35]
 

You guys act like CCP is the only software company to develop multiple games. Why wouldn't they make new games? Should EVE be the only game they ever make?

digitalwanderer
Gallente
DF0 incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.12 22:23:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Diamaht Nevain
You guys act like CCP is the only software company to develop multiple games. Why wouldn't they make new games? Should EVE be the only game they ever make?



No, dust 514 simply should have been done much earlier than now, when the competitive landscape isn't what it is today, and the current crop of consoles aren't exactly cutting edge anymore to say the least, and yes, a PC version should have been part of the plan....It's mostly ****ty timing basically.

Diamaht Nevain
Gallente
Avatar Union
Posted - 2011.08.12 22:29:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: digitalwanderer
Originally by: Diamaht Nevain
You guys act like CCP is the only software company to develop multiple games. Why wouldn't they make new games? Should EVE be the only game they ever make?



No, dust 514 simply should have been done much earlier than now, when the competitive landscape isn't what it is today, and the current crop of consoles aren't exactly cutting edge anymore to say the least, and yes, a PC version should have been part of the plan....It's mostly ****ty timing basically.


So you're saying that because of the "competitive landscape" no one should make shooters anymore?

digitalwanderer
Gallente
DF0 incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.12 22:38:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Diamaht Nevain


So you're saying that because of the "competitive landscape" no one should make shooters anymore?



No, if you do something then give it every chance to really stick out from the crowd, and frankly, doing it with a PS3 wich is getting old tech in a big way, pretty much limits how good it can be both visually and gameplay wise, while having good enough performance to be playable and not turn into a slide show in the process.


Add that a deal with microsoft wasn't possible so automatically right there, CCP is losing 50% of the console market( if not more since i think more X360's have been sold overall), and that a PC version isn't going to happen so just how many copies are they going to sell exactly, even with the best marketing campaing in the world, is beyond me....

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2011.08.12 22:56:00 - [39]
 

look its not that hard to see dust failing
lets look at the facts yet again

1-No on that plays only console games, cares about eve online
2-Dust is a multiplayer only shooter that will only be on PS3
3- a PC port is slightly possible, but non-mmo PC games havent sold well since the PS2/xbox generation.
4- Dust will not get the heavy marketing it needs, this is shown by the "we have dust come to PS3" at E3, almost no info has been shown on it.there needs to be 3 times as much info and videos to get the word out.
5- shooters on PS3 fail compared to 360.--- looking at 3 big shooter exclusives for PS3, killzone 2 and 3 and uncharted 2. Killzone 2 sold less then 3 million copies and it was heavily marketed for the ps3... killzone 3 has sold less then 2 million copies. uncharted 2, which is a greatest hit and won GOTY has sold less then 5 million copies.
6- this gen will be over in 1-2 years which will not be enough time for ccp to integrate Dust into EVE effectivly

based on all this, I would honesty guess that dust will sell less then 1/2 million copies, unless it does something special. if the game was also on xbox 360 the sales would probably triple.

im not trying to hurt everyones feelings but its just the facts of todays world

Kurath De'telandros
Posted - 2011.08.12 23:15:00 - [40]
 

If you guys are going to post in my topic :P atleast be alittle more educated about what your saying.

All of you are compairing **multiplayer games** with DUST which will be a MMORPG. Theres a big difference and therefore a different market. Most FPS players are far too brainless to comprehend a MMORPG. Ontop of that it is a space FPS MMORPG which is a niche market. The last MMO near this was Tabula rasa and among the Niche community it was rated one of the most enjoyable mmorpgs ever created.

Tabula rasa's downfall was a combination of the lead designer falling off a cliff ad the fact it was released incomplete. As long as Dust is refined and carries the same quality it will easily fill the Tabula rasa Niche gap.... however it *needs* to be PC compatable.

Information Agent
Posted - 2011.08.12 23:38:00 - [41]
 

Question: Dust514... why?

Answer: Icelandic herbs are obviously seriously good.

Joe Skellington
Minmatar
Matari Legion Holding
Matari Legion
Posted - 2011.08.13 00:21:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: CCP Prism X
This is all a big misunderstanding. We're making a new game, not an expansion, to maintain momentum as a serious gaming studio that produces its own technology rather than just being a one-trick pony. We're just crazy enough to want those two games to affect each other in a meaningful way. Otherwise we would probably not have bothered with showing you guys anything concerning DUST. As EVE players DUST would never have had any meaning for you without that connection, so why announce it so early?

As to hamsters: I trust the EVE community absolutely and unquestionably with conferring the uniqueness of EVE over to DUST players. I might not have been very invested in the FPSs I've played up to date.. but they never allowed me to show my friends an influence map of a persistent universe nor pointing to a location there saying: "I made that happen.". So, to me, it's mostly on us on making that connection as immersive as possible for both sides.

It wont be easy. But being insane ain't supposed to be easy.


At first I was taken back by this, but as time went on I eventually caved in a got a PS3 in anticipation. Maybe I'll get lucky and get in on the closed beta at the end of this year. If not, I hope I get in on the fun and try it out in some of the Sov wars. At the very least I have a decent console that plays Blue Rays and lets me stream NetFlix movies to my HDTV. :)

Tu Ko
Predator's Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.13 00:39:00 - [43]
 

Hey look I can still post.

Anyway everyone is forgetting something basic here. they aren't selling CD's for Dust514 its a free download with an 'activation' fee of $20.00 and then running MT store, and not a vanity store a full you buy your elite gear MT store. Not only are CCP banking on people wanting to play this, they are banking that people will PAY to WIN. How's that for an absurd gamble.

Bustin Jieber
Posted - 2011.08.13 01:17:00 - [44]
 

Dust is going to crash and burn. Let's just hope it dies quickly and doesn't damage Eve too much on its way down.

mkint
Posted - 2011.08.13 01:41:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: mkint on 13/08/2011 01:48:04

CCP's gonna do some stupid-ass thing and make Dust mandatory, like PI, spacebook, walking in closet, and all the other crap they've been squeezing out on us lately. The only people who are gonna buy it are gonna be 1-weekers, and the big RMTing alliances of the CSM to protect their $ stream. Dust is going to fail, and because CCP's gonna do some stupid-ass thing like make it the ONLY way to get sov, it's probably gonna take EVE with it.

edit: and best case scenario, dust will just be a tool for non-EVE players to grief EVE players without us having any means to defend ourselves (short of spending half a G on new equipment) or retaliate.

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2011.08.13 01:57:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Kurath De'telandros
If you guys are going to post in my topic :P atleast be alittle more educated about what your saying.

All of you are compairing **multiplayer games** with DUST which will be a MMORPG. Theres a big difference and therefore a different market. Most FPS players are far too brainless to comprehend a MMORPG. Ontop of that it is a space FPS MMORPG which is a niche market. The last MMO near this was Tabula rasa and among the Niche community it was rated one of the most enjoyable mmorpgs ever created.

Tabula rasa's downfall was a combination of the lead designer falling off a cliff ad the fact it was released incomplete. As long as Dust is refined and carries the same quality it will easily fill the Tabula rasa Niche gap.... however it *needs* to be PC compatable.

ur a moron if u really think that. almost all my friends who play games on console also play PC mmo's. so i guess ur a pc moron who thinks your better because gfx are the most important part of games.

Denidil
Gallente
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.08.13 03:33:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: CCP Prism X
This is all a big misunderstanding. We're making a new game, not an expansion, to maintain momentum as a serious gaming studio that produces its own technology rather than just being a one-trick pony. We're just crazy enough to want those two games to affect each other in a meaningful way. Otherwise we would probably not have bothered with showing you guys anything concerning DUST. As EVE players DUST would never have had any meaning for you without that connection, so why announce it so early?

As to hamsters: I trust the EVE community absolutely and unquestionably with conferring the uniqueness of EVE over to DUST players. I might not have been very invested in the FPSs I've played up to date.. but they never allowed me to show my friends an influence map of a persistent universe nor pointing to a location there saying: "I made that happen.". So, to me, it's mostly on us on making that connection as immersive as possible for both sides.

It wont be easy. But being insane ain't supposed to be easy.


Playstation only now? WTF..

i'm going to have to say this is absolutely not thought out

It's Unreal 3 engine based!

PC, Xbox 360, Playstation.. it's all in the motherfrakking package!

Is there a SOLID technical reason you have to exclude Xbox 360 and PC?

Difficulty: I'm a software engineer at a one of the biggest software firms on the planet.

Edgar Loke
Posted - 2011.08.13 13:16:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Denidil


Is there a SOLID technical reason you have to exclude Xbox 360 and PC?

Difficulty: I'm a software engineer at a one of the biggest software firms on the planet.


Its not a software reason, its a server hosting reason. CCP wants to make a game that will function on their own server running their own updates. Microsoft won't allow for that kinda thing as everything they have MUST pass through XBL. Microsoft and Sony also don't like mixing their player bases between their games, which is why you NEVER see any of these big name titles with players from both the PS3 and Xbox. Its oil and water, so they cant do multi console.

The PC reasoning is purely to experiment with expanding into a new market. They have the PC market where they are comfortable with it, so now they will try releasing a free to play* MMO on an entirely different market. (*You still buy into it for $20, but that's it, you get $20 worth of in game currency and then you own it, its kinda similar to the Guild Wars model)

Yes they could expand to PC later, but I doubt that will happen anywhere in the near future since they want to see if it fails on the PS3. As for the longevity of it, since Sony has announced this as an exclusive title, I would imagine that CCP asked Sony about porting this to the PS4 since we all know its bound to come out sooner or later. They wouldn't release a game that will die simply because of console lifespans.

digitalwanderer
Gallente
DF0 incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.13 13:44:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Kurath De'telandros


All of you are compairing **multiplayer games** with DUST which will be a MMORPG. Theres a big difference and therefore a different market. Most FPS players are far too brainless to comprehend a MMORPG. Ontop of that it is a space FPS MMORPG which is a niche market. The last MMO near this was Tabula rasa and among the Niche community it was rated one of the most enjoyable mmorpgs ever created.



And the example you're quoting lasted less than 2 years from launch until it was closed down and didn't hit the popularity that NCsoft hoped for and it was a PC title to begin with, so not exactly a good example to hope for with regards to dust 514 here, even more so because dust 514 is restricted to 1 console on the market and no other platforms at all.


Quote:

Tabula rasa's downfall was a combination of the lead designer falling off a cliff ad the fact it was released incomplete. As long as Dust is refined and carries the same quality it will easily fill the Tabula rasa Niche gap.... however it *needs* to be PC compatable.



Actually the lead designer for the game went on an actual space flight(wich is kinda cool to be honest), and didn't really care much for the game afterwards after that experience...

As for dust 514, and needing regular updates for bugs, balancing and content addition as time goes on, this is CCP we're talking about right?, and since they've done such a wonderfull job with EVE these last 2 years, we should have nothing to worry about right?....Rolling EyesughWink

nartela
Posted - 2011.08.13 13:51:00 - [50]
 

im a little curios about dust, its either going to be the greatest fsp of all time, or a pile of burning garbage.
taking on bf3 and cod wich are both multiplatform with a exclusive title, seems insane to me unless you have jesus christ son of god on your development team.

however your insanity has iven me the confidence to write mike tyson and jacky chan letters inviting them to a two on one no rules deathmatch........wish me luck.

Mitauchi
NOMAD.
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2011.08.13 14:13:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: CCP Prism X
This is all a big misunderstanding. We're making a new game, not an expansion, to maintain momentum as a serious gaming studio that produces its own technology rather than just being a one-trick pony. We're just crazy enough to want those two games to affect each other in a meaningful way. Otherwise we would probably not have bothered with showing you guys anything concerning DUST. As EVE players DUST would never have had any meaning for you without that connection, so why announce it so early?

As to hamsters: I trust the EVE community absolutely and unquestionably with conferring the uniqueness of EVE over to DUST players. I might not have been very invested in the FPSs I've played up to date.. but they never allowed me to show my friends an influence map of a persistent universe nor pointing to a location there saying: "I made that happen.". So, to me, it's mostly on us on making that connection as immersive as possible for both sides.

It wont be easy. But being insane ain't supposed to be easy.


The features and elements promised in DUST 514 have already drawn over 70 new players I personally know over to Eve itself. There is no doubt in my mind that Dust has the potential to positively impact Eve if executed properly. That aside the game Dust 514 appears to offer the gameplay many of the FPS community have been waiting for, a persistent universe for us to log in and take part in rather than just leaderboards and unlocks you complete in a week or 2. Complex politics, tactical goals and real battlefield success that translates into tangible in-game rewards like territory, ISK and notoriety is something a large majority of the FPS community I know will get behind. All I can ask is that CCP include those of us you want to help in the continued development of this new game so that we can help it be a successful addition to the Eve Online Universe rather than risking a poor launch and being completely shun by a good portion of the existing community.

Pablo Amadeus Zekairra
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.08.13 15:09:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Pablo Amadeus Zekairra on 13/08/2011 15:17:09
Edited by: Pablo Amadeus Zekairra on 13/08/2011 15:14:06
I was born in 1988 my generation IS the video game culture.

When I see all of these anti-dust514 trolls on the forums I think about how gamers now **** block more games than a gay best friends **** blocks a hot chick's dates...

Dust looks great!
the fact that ppl are complaining about this and that and none of us have ever even played it let alone seen something like it is just a mass troll IMO

It is the first title of a what will most likely be an FPS franchise on the consoles.
and a good one or else they wouldn't even bother with it.

Mitauchi
NOMAD.
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2011.08.13 15:10:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Mitauchi on 13/08/2011 15:11:46
Edited by: Mitauchi on 13/08/2011 15:10:50
The unfortunate this about the Eve community seems that many players do not see the big picture when it comes to DUST.

1. Dust does not have to compete with BF3 or other FPS releases. It is a downloadable game for $20. Considering that most real FPS players do not own only one game at a time most people will probably download and try DUST just on the potential cool factor alone.

2. DUST does not have to maintain a large player base to be successful. The subscription model of free to play with the ability to purchase ISK will allow for a small community to keep the game going regardless of how small or big it gets (just like in Eve). Eve has never had the number of subscribers that other MMOs have yet it has survived and succeeded in remaining relevant within a large competitive market of MMOs.

3. Success of DUST means new opportunities for Eve Online players to benefit from the increased cash flow and resources gathered from other games. I look at this way. CCP like all game companies is attempting to expand and diversify its digital properties by creating new games. I rather have them put money into a project that relates to Eve rather than WoD or any other project. The only way the games both succeed and remain a truly cutting edge is the link between the games.

4. With all new mechanics between the game put into place tying the games together, if one fails it would problematic for both games. This means developmental focus will have to remain on both Eve and DUST rather than new projects for the time being so that both games maintain a population. Eve will continue to develop and expand based on just this alone as well as it is CCP's flagship product.

It is still potentially an amazing game people!!! Not many other games offer a persistent universe that Eve has. And to bring the elements of territory/planetary control, player driven politics and the other game features of Eve I love onto a shooter is awesome to me. No more grinding for experience points to skill up, not having to pay for an expansion every 6 - 12 months and being able to have Isk flow between games is music to my ears. Trolls will be trolls but at least educate yourself a little bit and bring real constructive comments about the two games interaction.

AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
Posted - 2011.08.13 17:25:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Mitauchi
It is still potentially an amazing game people!!!


Any game is amazing, but if no one plays it, who cares?

It could score 10/10 and get the golden joystick award, but that doesn't guarantee people will play it.

It's more likely to get 6-8/10 and off the back of $? marketing budget, will have a hard time gaining ground with an already established FPS market.

Some people own a 360 as well as a PS3 and a PC and a MAC and an iPhone and have their gaming money spread thinly - it's more likely they would play a game they have heard of, than a game they haven't heard of. Or, worse still [but so true it hurts] they will play the game with the biggest numbers; the number #1 selling game etc.

You gotta remember retail also, that's where snap/impulse buyers lurk whilst the missus is buying shoes - and this isn't even going into retail? You gotta be kidding me...

Without nails, the coffin is a cosy box.

Hixxy
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.08.13 18:33:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Hixxy on 13/08/2011 18:41:32
ps meh. unless i get one free i wont be bothering.


why do i get the feeling the devs had the rug pulled out from under them?

edit : this game making **** is a partnership right? ****ing marketing scum ****ing up yet another game.

Dorian Wylde
Posted - 2011.08.13 18:54:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Valei Khurelem
Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 12/08/2011 20:12:26
Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 12/08/2011 19:55:47
Originally by: CCP Prism X
This is all a big misunderstanding. We're making a new game, not an expansion, to maintain momentum as a serious gaming studio that produces its own technology rather than just being a one-trick pony. We're just crazy enough to want those two games to affect each other in a meaningful way. Otherwise we would probably not have bothered with showing you guys anything concerning DUST. As EVE players DUST would never have had any meaning for you without that connection, so why announce it so early?

As to hamsters: I trust the EVE community absolutely and unquestionably with conferring the uniqueness of EVE over to DUST players. I might not have been very invested in the FPSs I've played up to date.. but they never allowed me to show my friends an influence map of a persistent universe nor pointing to a location there saying: "I made that happen.". So, to me, it's mostly on us on making that connection as immersive as possible for both sides.

It wont be easy. But being insane ain't supposed to be easy.


Admit it, you don't even know just how many people will want to own a PS3 in order to get Dust 514 and you never will.

If you just released Dust for the PC AS WELL AS PS3 not only would it make more sense but also you wouldn't alienate the very player base that is now allowing you to do this!


No, they would be alienating the new playerbase they're trying to attract. Dust will never be on PC because console players will never be able to compete with a mouse and keyboard.

Galla Raxip
Posted - 2011.08.13 19:06:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Galla Raxip on 13/08/2011 19:08:07


Well, I haven't touched my PS3 in some time and I am looking forward to it, I don't understand why everyone is *****ing. I have fun playing Eve and I'm sure I'll have fun playing Dust as well.


digitalwanderer
Gallente
DF0 incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.13 20:27:00 - [58]
 

Another aspect of this is also why is it that CCP shadow said not that long ago that MT and items that can be bought straight from the game itself, in this case using a brand new type of currency, would never make it into the game at all, and this is a senior developer stating it.


Now we all know it's about the money right, and needing it to continue to run EVE as well as the necessary funding for Dust 514 and incarna's further development, but they knew it wouldn't go down well with subscribers, and there will be backlash for it(no lack of it as we can see), so this option to raise money would never be the top choice.


So here's my crazy theory....They tried to get more money in the form of a loan from a bank, or perhaps from an investment firm wich i'm sure they presented their business plan and showed them Dust's release next year on PS3 as an exclusive and further developement for incarna of course, and it wasn't enough to convince said banks and/or investors that it was a safe bet and they'd get a nice return for their money.


Hence we have MT and vanity items on sale directly thru the game(at insane prices i might add), to generate that money needed to complete CCP's future plans, even if it means getting flamed half to death like they currently are now....Desperate times call for desperate mesures basically.


Just my 0.2 cents though...Wink

digitalwanderer
Gallente
DF0 incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.13 20:32:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: digitalwanderer on 13/08/2011 20:34:16
Originally by: Dorian Wylde


No, they would be alienating the new playerbase they're trying to attract. Dust will never be on PC because console players will never be able to compete with a mouse and keyboard.



Keep in mind that it also might be that sony put an exclusivity clause in the contract as a condition to allow Dust 514 to happen at all...They own the console and the network afterall so even if CCP wanted to do a PC version, they might not be legally allowed to do it, at least for a fixed amount of time after it's been launched on the PS3.

Pablo Amadeus Zekairra
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.08.13 20:43:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Galla Raxip
Edited by: Galla Raxip on 13/08/2011 19:08:07


Well, I haven't touched my PS3 in some time and I am looking forward to it, I don't understand why everyone is *****ing. I have fun playing Eve and I'm sure I'll have fun playing Dust as well.




idk either I can enjoy both Dust and EvE so I am set...
I want to get crackin on getting some people ready for it tho most of the noobs on the forums will alt rage quit the min they get popped in the head by a small nuke.

plus the building here[EvE] for the mercs[Dust514]might be just what the doc ordered.

and crapbox has Master Chief and pretty avatars and that is fine, Ps3 has HOME and free stuff if you are cheap(which you most likely are) and the SONY has been at it for longer so it WOULD be them to bring MMOs to a console gamer.

lastly I like how all the trolls against a Dust514 complain about having to get a Ps3 for DUST, then again you had to get a PC to run EvE...

or is there an EvE client that runs on space?
DUST CREW™ [Wordpress]


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