open All Channels
seplocked Features and Ideas Discussion
blankseplocked Nullsec AFKloakers are a CCP design goal fail - needs discussion!
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (11)

Author Topic

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.18 15:30:00 - [91]
 

Edited by: Mag''s on 18/08/2011 15:31:02
Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Removing local is a bad idea, and makes AFK cloaking moot rather than "fixing" it.
But local is at the root of all this. You can even use it without a cloak and gain a psychological advantage.

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
To do away with AFK cloaking you need to do away with the AFK part, and there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth if you do that so it will never happen.
Why, when Eve is full of AFK activities? Why remove that, when the whole reason for AFK cloaking is local. You want the cart to lead the horse.

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
How's this for an idea:
After 10 hours logged in between downtimes your character gets tired, losing the equivalent of 1 level in all skills every hour after that (with no floor) until you log off for at least an hour to let them rest. Capsuleers are tough, they can get by with only one hour of sleep for every 10 spent on duty.

So you could AFK cloak, but every now and then you need to signal that you are there or you lose combat effectiveness.
Because timers are so easily bypassed and add nothing to the game. Also adding something as daft as SP removal, just shows how far removed and unbalanced your ideas are.

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.18 15:54:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Mag's
Edited by: Mag''s on 18/08/2011 15:31:02
Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Removing local is a bad idea, and makes AFK cloaking moot rather than "fixing" it.
But local is at the root of all this. You can even use it without a cloak and gain a psychological advantage.

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
To do away with AFK cloaking you need to do away with the AFK part, and there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth if you do that so it will never happen.
Why, when Eve is full of AFK activities? Why remove that, when the whole reason for AFK cloaking is local. You want the cart to lead the horse.


The reason for AFK cloaking is to remove the effectiveness of local as an intel tool. So removing local completely "fixes" the problem like dropping your wallet in the street "fixes" the problem of possibly being mugged.
Originally by: Mag's

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
How's this for an idea:
After 10 hours logged in between downtimes your character gets tired, losing the equivalent of 1 level in all skills every hour after that (with no floor) until you log off for at least an hour to let them rest. Capsuleers are tough, they can get by with only one hour of sleep for every 10 spent on duty.

So you could AFK cloak, but every now and then you need to signal that you are there or you lose combat effectiveness.
Because timers are so easily bypassed and add nothing to the game. Also adding something as daft as SP removal, just shows how far removed and unbalanced your ideas are.

I didn't say remove the SP. That you thought I did shows how little you considered my argument.
I said remove the effect of the SP until the character is reset (by being logged off for an hour).

Give me one good reason why a person actually playing the game needs to be at the computer playing for more than 10 hours straight.

The fact that many activities are pursued AFK means that despite the official position of CCP against botting that they have built several bots into the game. Anything that works for extended periods without player intervention is practically the dictionary definition of a game bot.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.18 16:54:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
The reason for AFK cloaking is to remove the effectiveness of local as an intel tool.
Exactly, so what is the problem?

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
So removing local completely "fixes" the problem like dropping your wallet in the street "fixes" the problem of possibly being mugged.
Great straw man you have there, but let's run with it.

For mugging to take place, you don't need a wallet...... Much like for AFKing to take place, you don't need a cloak.

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
I didn't say remove the SP. That you thought I did shows how little you considered my argument.
I said remove the effect of the SP until the character is reset (by being logged off for an hour).
Which is in effect, removing the SP. It's not a balanced approach.

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Give me one good reason why a person actually playing the game needs to be at the computer playing for more than 10 hours straight.
You suggested it, please give me a good reason why I cannot.

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
The fact that many activities are pursued AFK means that despite the official position of CCP against botting that they have built several bots into the game. Anything that works for extended periods without player intervention is practically the dictionary definition of a game bot.
Wrong. CCP define them as independent programs, that are not a part of Eve.

Originally by: CCP Pollux
One particular type of cheating that the ESTF has been focusing its attention on is programs that automate EVE's gameplay on behalf of a player, or bots.

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:08:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Newt Rondanse
The reason for AFK cloaking is to remove the effectiveness of local as an intel tool.
Exactly, so what is the problem?

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
So removing local completely "fixes" the problem like dropping your wallet in the street "fixes" the problem of possibly being mugged.
Great straw man you have there, but let's run with it.

For mugging to take place, you don't need a wallet...... Much like for AFKing to take place, you don't need a cloak.


You don't need local, either.

The problem with AFK cloaking is it reduces what should be a defender's advantage (to the extent that it is a problem, I think it's just fine, myself).

To eliminate that defender's advantage entirely in the name of "fixing" the problem is completely backwards thinking and would have the effect of depopulating vast stretches of nullsec.

Originally by: Mag's

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
I didn't say remove the SP. That you thought I did shows how little you considered my argument.
I said remove the effect of the SP until the character is reset (by being logged off for an hour).
Which is in effect, removing the SP. It's not a balanced approach.


What's not balanced about it?
Your character gets tired after so much time in the captain's chair. You should give him a break sometimes.
Originally by: Mag's

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Give me one good reason why a person actually playing the game needs to be at the computer playing for more than 10 hours straight.
You suggested it, please give me a good reason why I cannot.


Bathroom breaks.
Meals.
Work.
Sleep.
Personal relationships outside the game.

Now, give me a single reason you NEED to be there for that long.
Originally by: Mag's

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
The fact that many activities are pursued AFK means that despite the official position of CCP against botting that they have built several bots into the game. Anything that works for extended periods without player intervention is practically the dictionary definition of a game bot.
Wrong. CCP define them as independent programs, that are not a part of Eve.

Originally by: CCP Pollux
One particular type of cheating that the ESTF has been focusing its attention on is programs that automate EVE's gameplay on behalf of a player, or bots.


So, if it automates EVE gameplay on behalf of the player, and it isn't part of the client it's bannable, but if it automates gameplay on behalf of the player and it's built-in to the client it's good?

Simply put, to do anything AFK it has to be automated on behalf of the player. Period. Having it built into the game client might make it legal, but it doesn't change what it is.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.18 19:40:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: Mag''s on 18/08/2011 19:41:47
Originally by: Newt Rondanse
You don't need local, either.
For the purpose of psychological warfare and the subverting of local intel, yes you do. But you don't need a cloak.

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
The problem with AFK cloaking is it reduces what should be a defender's advantage (to the extent that it is a problem, I think it's just fine, myself).
I think it's fine and not a problem. It's simply a way of subverting the use of local intel. Intel that is given free to all and without bias. Whether you are the defender or not, is neither here nor there with local.

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
To eliminate that defender's advantage entirely in the name of "fixing" the problem is completely backwards thinking and would have the effect of depopulating vast stretches of nullsec.
But it's not just a defenders advantage, it's intel open for all and I've never asked for it to be eliminated.

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
What's not balanced about it?
Your character gets tired after so much time in the captain's chair. You should give him a break sometimes.
Because focusing on the cloak without also looking at local, is not a balanced approach.
Oh and my char is suspended in goo in a pod and never leaves his ship. You're confusing WiS with FiS.

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Bathroom breaks.
Meals.
Work.
Sleep.
Personal relationships outside the game.

Now, give me a single reason you NEED to be there for that long.
I can do all the things you mention and still remain logged in. Because I pay for my account and run it how I see fit.

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
So, if it automates EVE gameplay on behalf of the player, and it isn't part of the client it's bannable, but if it automates gameplay on behalf of the player and it's built-in to the client it's good?
Basically Yes. But CCP decides exactly what they deem to be bannable.

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Simply put, to do anything AFK it has to be automated on behalf of the player. Period. Having it built into the game client might make it legal, but it doesn't change what it is.
It's CCPs game, this is not a democracy. Someone once argued much the same, in regards to the word exploit. They tried to bring up dictionary links to prove that exploit didn't mean what CCP deemed it meant. But the same point stands, within the rules and confines of Eve.

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.18 20:06:00 - [96]
 

Edited by: Newt Rondanse on 18/08/2011 20:11:07
Edited by: Newt Rondanse on 18/08/2011 20:10:22
Originally by: Mag's

Originally by: Mag's

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Give me one good reason why a person actually playing the game needs to be at the computer playing for more than 10 hours straight.


You suggested it, please give me a good reason why I cannot.


Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Bathroom breaks.
Meals.
Work.
Sleep.
Personal relationships outside the game.

Now, give me a single reason you NEED to be there for that long.
I can do all the things you mention and still remain logged in. Because I pay for my account and run it how I see fit.


You must have one heck of an awesome rig if you can do all that while actually playing the game.

Rolling Eyes
Originally by: Mag's

It's CCPs game, this is not a democracy. Someone once argued much the same, in regards to the word exploit. They tried to bring up dictionary links to prove that exploit didn't mean what CCP deemed it meant. But the same point stands, within the rules and confines of Eve.



I understand that. I just like watching people squirm when they realize that while the legal line is quite clear, the ethical line isn't where they thought it was, and they aren't on the side of it they would claim to be.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.18 20:11:00 - [97]
 

Edited by: Mag''s on 18/08/2011 20:18:23
Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Originally by: Mag's
I can do all the things you mention and still remain logged in. Because I pay for my account and run it how I see fit.


You must have one heck of an awesome rig if you can do all that while actually playing the game.

Rolling Eyes
You really got me with that remark, no honestly I'm speechless.

Edit:
Originally by: Newt Rondanse
I understand that. I just like watching people squirm when they realize that while the legal line is quite clear, the ethical line isn't where they thought it was, and they aren't on the side of it they would claim to be.

So your point is, you don't have a point, have lost this argument and now try to claim some sort of intellectual ethical line. Cool.

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.18 20:26:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Mag's
Edited by: Mag''s on 18/08/2011 20:18:23
Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Originally by: Mag's
I can do all the things you mention and still remain logged in. Because I pay for my account and run it how I see fit.


You must have one heck of an awesome rig if you can do all that while actually playing the game.

Rolling Eyes
You really got me with that remark, no honestly I'm speechless.

Edit:
Originally by: Newt Rondanse
I understand that. I just like watching people squirm when they realize that while the legal line is quite clear, the ethical line isn't where they thought it was, and they aren't on the side of it they would claim to be.

So your point is, you don't have a point, have lost this argument and now try to claim some sort of intellectual ethical line. Cool.

Was there ever an argument?

Some folks came along complaining that AFK cloaking was teh devil's tool and something needed to be done about it.

I've just been suggesting various things that could be done about it.

Funny thing is that anything that would actually do anything about AFK cloaking would break large amounts of other people's gameplay, including the people who have their panties in a bunch about the AFK cloaking to begin with.

I would definitely say "mission accomplished", now where did I leave that stealth bomber?...

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.18 20:40:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Was there ever an argument?
Nothing to see here, move along?

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.18 23:17:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Newt Rondanse
Was there ever an argument?
Nothing to see here, move along?

Yep. You win. Laughing

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.08.19 01:48:00 - [101]
 

Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 19/08/2011 01:52:49
cloaking devices are probably the worst-implemented idea in Eve Online and the idea of "AFK Cloaking" is the end-game of that absurdity. Set module activation for 3000 seconds and disable auto-repeat problem solved.

Jaru Enthil'Zha
Posted - 2011.08.19 03:17:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: Jaru Enthil''Zha on 19/08/2011 03:20:26
So no one should be 100% safe while in space... unless you're an afk cloaker. Got it.

Diablo Ex
Caldari
The Devil's Reject's
Posted - 2011.08.19 04:45:00 - [103]
 

I find it quite amazing just how many tears that I receive just by being cloaked.
Look, here is the real deal.... If you can't handle a cloaker in your system, chances are you won't like what I bring as an alternative. I'm there, in "your" system for a reason.

1) I'm scouting for a fleet roam...
2) I'm carrying a Cyno to hot drop you...
3) I'm sitting around, growing bored, while waiting for you to undock, or come out of your POS.
4) I'm denying you the ability to have a secure "nullsec" experience.
5) I'm ruining your Bots ability to make ISK.

From my vantage point, it looks like you don't belong in Nullsec if you can't take the risk of having me in system.

H.T.F.U.

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.08.19 05:08:00 - [104]
 

So you can't get kills without an invulnerability button and you're telling other people to HTFU?

Diablo Ex
Caldari
The Devil's Reject's
Posted - 2011.08.19 05:36:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
So you can't get kills without an invulnerability button and you're telling other people to HTFU?


Get Kills?
Get Kills??
Get Kills???

First, that cloak is hardly an Invulnerability button... I'm sitting in a wet paper bag that any half trained rookie with a retriever and 5 light drones can SHRED!!!

The ONLY WAY for me to kill a hauler is if his friends are too gutless to come and assist him.
IF.... and this is a BIG IF.... I have any sort of point (web/scram/disruptor) then I'm lacking any possibility of tanking a rookie ship's civilian gatling laser! At Best I have a Target Painter and some form of ECM or tracking disruptor that might....MIGHT... allow me to get off a second volley!

Yes, it is possible to PvP in a Stealth Bomber, but it is highly unlikely to succeed unless the target is a failfit PvE Battleship AND the Pilot has a panic attack, and watches helplessly as I slowly take 10-15 min killing him while he forgets to warp away.

Of the 6 reasons I listed for being in system, only 2 involve PvP, and 1 of those only has me lighting a cyno and PRAYING that the enemy does't "Warp to the Cyno" and pod me, and if the Fleet does Hot Drop in...chances are I will get no credit on any killmail for my efforts.

Yes, the cloak is my only defense, and if I should be caught... I'm most certainly dead unless you allow me to escape.

So yea..... you need to H.T.F.U.

You don't have the jewels boy, to do my job!

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.08.19 05:40:00 - [106]
 

Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 19/08/2011 05:44:56


Originally by: Diablo Ex
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
So you can't get kills without an invulnerability button and you're telling other people to HTFU?


Get Kills?
Get Kills??
Get Kills???

First, that cloak is hardly an Invulnerability button... I'm sitting in a wet paper bag that any half trained rookie with a retriever and 5 light drones can SHRED!!!
Are you really suggesting a retriever can kill a recon ship or a covops strategic cruiser with light drones?

srsly?

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.08.19 05:50:00 - [107]
 

Now see, I've traded billions ferrying goods between highsec and null in a covops hauler. Wasn't even challenging thanks to my trusty invulnerability button that makes me safe from all forms of PvP unless I felt like engaging in it. I'm not going to lie like some people and pretend that it took skill in any way or was somehow balanced against any sort of risk.

Diablo Ex
Caldari
The Devil's Reject's
Posted - 2011.08.19 08:06:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Are you really suggesting a retriever can kill a recon ship or a covops strategic cruiser with light drones?

srsly?


o.o


.......stealth bomber........... hello?

I don't do long range/long term scouting in recons or T3 cruisers. If I'm in a system loitering around it is either going to be in a Buzzard Covert Ops, Manticore SB, or in a Cyno Kestrel with an improved cloak.

If your getting Recons hanging around your system, I would be looking for a new home. Those are pricey assets to be dedicating solo into a system for days or weeks ahead of a fleet action.

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.08.19 08:26:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 19/08/2011 08:28:07
Originally by: Diablo Ex

.......stealth bomber........... hello?

I don't do long range/long term scouting in recons or T3 cruisers. If I'm in a system loitering around it is either going to be in a Buzzard Covert Ops, Manticore SB, or in a Cyno Kestrel with an improved cloak.

If your getting Recons hanging around your system, I would be looking for a new home. Those are pricey assets to be dedicating solo into a system for days or weeks ahead of a fleet action.

The trick is to cycle between systems, but yeah there's plenty of people out there who will AFK cloak with more expensive stuff that can't be instapopped by a PVE ship. The counterbalances to AFK cloaking you list don't really apply in most scenarios I've had in the south - insta-popping a flimsy SB doesn't really apply when it's a heavily plated recon or T3, and the vulnerability of lighting a cyno beacon is nullified if you're using a covops cyno bridge that's lit up, while having some insta-locking SB tackle on you before your ship can align to its safe.

If you ever watched the science fiction stories that EVE derives the concept of a cloaking device from, you'll notice that the protagonists at the end of the story typically devised a way of detecting the cloaked ship and saving the day. They'd find some "neutrino emissions" or shoot ions or whatever; it didn't end with the whole Romulan armada flying cloaked up to Earth then blasting all the major cities into burning craters, the end. Because that would be very anti-climactic.

What's ultimately needed is a way to force an engagement somehow from these aggressors, or like I said just make the module run for like 6000 seconds with no auto-repeat.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.08.19 08:54:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Jaru Enthil'Zha

So no one should be 100% safe while in space... unless you're an afk cloaker. Got it.


- you're safe in space if you are cloaked
- you're safe in space in you are in a POS *)
- you're safe in space when local is clear

AND you are safe in eve when docked

*) pls dont come up with the bulls*it of downing a POS because of a dude inside FF, until the tower dies he is either safe at another POS, logged, left the sytem or safe elsewhere. I saw more people dying due to accidental decloak than because they were trapped in a POS, being destructed.

PaulTheConvoluted
Posted - 2011.08.19 09:35:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
This means that AFK cloaking is only an exploit if all those other activites are also
All those other activities have a counter. Cloaking (except for bumping into those 65,4 cubic kilometers where the system is quite infinitely larger) doesn't.

Now, that's ok for ppl actually playing the game (like hauling or boosting or hunting prey), but hanging somewhere invulnerable and then going AFK for hours isn't.

As for being safe while docked or in a POS, ever thought about the effort it requires to actually have an outpost or a POS somewhere? Compare that to the effort it requires to fit a cloak on a frig...

PWNAGEROCKET ORLY
Posted - 2011.08.19 09:48:00 - [112]
 

1. docking in a station does somehow imply not to be in space

2. POS design imho is thought of as a station without docking possibility wouldn't count this as "out in space". It's an incredibly expensive safespot requiring a lot of effort to be run. As running it also means to have risky transports and the fact that a POS is not invulnerable and can't be used for fighting (jumping to random points in space would be equally save) makes this incomparable to the low effort of AFK-cloaking - imho.

However I understand what AFK-cloakers are concerned about. Nevertheless we read a lot of comments that blame other mechanics being unbalanced and that being used as an excuse for the unbalanced endless cloaking. "Let us farm free ISK to stop ppl from farming free ISK - because what we farm we think is worth less this is the indisputable better way".

2 points I want to add:
- I have to prove nothing. I came up with the fact that CCP design rules for Nullsec contradict endless cloaking. I've done so to see if others think the same way or not, and why.
- In regard of this, please stop discussing botting, non-topic related definitions, etc.

Nevertheless everybody can now see the connection between local chat and cloaking (which maybe is less important than some ppl think) and some other game mechanics.
So why not discuss possible solutions which focus the topic without neglecting other game mechanics people mentioned here. Due to ppl spamming whine and endless dialogs this thread has not yet come up with too much usefull informations.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.08.19 09:59:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: PaulTheConvoluted
All those other activities have a counter. Cloaking (except for bumping into those 65,4 cubic kilometers where the system is quite infinitely larger) doesn't.

why are you talking about counters now, afking was the topic.
But anyways, eve is full of uncounterable thigs. Can you counter my industry jobs? market orders? Can you remove my open contracts? Prevent me from undock from the station? Jumping through a gate? Gain SP! Cant counter that. Even getting you out of the POS requires that high efforts with a little chance of success killing you, that we dont need to talk about basically.

Originally by: PaulTheConvoluted
Now, that's ok for ppl actually playing the game (like hauling or boosting or hunting prey), but hanging somewhere invulnerable and then going AFK for hours isn't.

How is afk-cloaking different to... installing an industry job for picking up the fruit in the end of process??

Originally by: PaulTheConvoluted
As for being safe while docked or in a POS, ever thought about the effort it requires to actually have an outpost or a POS somewhere? Compare that to the effort it requires to fit a cloak on a frig...

a POS offers a lot more than cloak. You cant mine moon minerals in value of several billions a month, re-fit ships, store all kinds of stuff there etc.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.08.19 10:06:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: PWNAGEROCKET ORLY

2. POS design imho is thought of as a station without docking possibility wouldn't count this as "out in space".

lol... rly?
and cloak is exactly the same, designed as minipos without a FF, you cant consider a cloaked ship as in space either... Right?

Originally by: PWNAGEROCKET ORLY
It's an incredibly expensive safespot requiring a lot of effort to be run.

and a lot of benefits, incredibly more than cloak.


Originally by: PWNAGEROCKET ORLY
As running it also means to have risky transports and the fact that a POS is not invulnerable and can't be used for fighting (jumping to random points in space would be equally save) makes this incomparable to the low effort of AFK-cloaking - imho.

yes, its a different mechanic, for this reason you cant really compare them both, except for in their safety regards.

Originally by: PWNAGEROCKET ORLY
However I understand what AFK-cloakers are concerned about. Nevertheless we read a lot of comments that blame other mechanics being unbalanced and that being used as an excuse for the unbalanced endless cloaking.

I dont blame any other mechanic, dont complain, just pointing out cloak is not the only which behaves in certain manners, there are other mechanics behaving similarly but thats fine.

Originally by: PWNAGEROCKET ORLY
"Let us farm free ISK to stop ppl from farming free ISK - because what we farm we think is worth less this is the indisputable better way".

yes. Stopping income is a valid and required tactic. Go back to high sec if you dont like that, nobody forced you to 0.0.


Nebularis
Posted - 2011.08.19 10:29:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Diablo Ex
I find it quite amazing just how many tears that I receive just by being cloaked.
Look, here is the real deal.... If you can't handle a cloaker in your system, chances are you won't like what I bring as an alternative. I'm there, in "your" system for a reason.

1) I'm scouting for a fleet roam...
2) I'm carrying a Cyno to hot drop you...
3) I'm sitting around, growing bored, while waiting for you to undock, or come out of your POS.
4) I'm denying you the ability to have a secure "nullsec" experience.
5) I'm ruining your Bots ability to make ISK.

From my vantage point, it looks like you don't belong in Nullsec if you can't take the risk of having me in system.

H.T.F.U.


Pretty much all these alternatives are desirable to afk cloaking, at least that way I would get a fight out of you, rather than some gutless...nothingness. I don't fear afk cloakies, but It's frustrating that there is no counter to em. The only way you get to catch em is through a mistake on the part of the cloaky(though how you can screw up pretting F1 is beyond me) or dumb luck. Like I've said in a previous post. Allow the cloaking device to remove cloaked players from local while active. It won't disrupt *active* cloak users, and allows much more opportunity to pvp. It would make stealth ships truly stealthy.

Callum545
Posted - 2011.08.19 10:40:00 - [116]
 

I bet the only people that post these threads are botters or people that use bots

Azhpol
Gallente
Casa Del Wombat
Posted - 2011.08.19 10:57:00 - [117]
 

You know, cloakers ENFORCE the no safety in space design rule. I am not a cloaker, can't stand playing submariner, but I still think the mechanic is needed as it stands. Blackops are a needed part of true war, and part of the reason blackops work so well is fear of them hitting, more than the actual impact of the strike.

There are only really 3 situations you have to deal with as a grunt and a cloaker:

A) They are cloaked and afk, end of story
B) They are working solo, in which case you need to go back to highsec if you can't fight off a ship gimped by having to fit a cloak in one that can tank a full anom(you aren't dumb enough to be ratting in null without an omni tank, are you?)
C) They are running hotdrop ops, in which case the first person to get hit is screwed, and after that everyone knows what to prepare for. Take 1 or 2 losses before everyone in your alliance knows, and then keep enough people in system to deal with hotdroppers.

C is the only one to actually worry about, and C is the whole reason the entire covops line of ships exist, so they aren't gonna want to make it go away. Covops tactics are about fear, and denial of opportunity to your enemy, and in that, I gotta say that covops are the only line of ships that are actually balanced.

All that being said, I still with I had a way to catch the dam cloaky AFKers, I just realize that they are working as intended. The only 'problem' is that they do exactly what they are supposed to do.

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.08.19 11:01:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Azhpol
You know, cloakers ENFORCE the no safety in space design rule.
Unless you have one fitted, then they enforce the exact opposite.

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.19 11:37:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Originally by: Azhpol
You know, cloakers ENFORCE the no safety in space design rule.
Unless you have one fitted, then they enforce the exact opposite.

But you can't do anything with your cloak on.

Might as well be docked.

Azhpol
Gallente
Casa Del Wombat
Posted - 2011.08.19 12:08:00 - [120]
 

Edited by: Azhpol on 19/08/2011 12:08:49
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Originally by: Azhpol
You know, cloakers ENFORCE the no safety in space design rule.
Unless you have one fitted, then they enforce the exact opposite.

Of course, they also make you about as useful as someone who is just docked up, only difference is that if you are docked someone can check(and you can be locked out of a station).

You ALSO gimp your ship for any ability to actually do anything in a solo capacity if you want to fit a cloak anyway, and you gimp it more than any ratting ship should be gimped. The ratter probably won't get the killmail, but if you have half the skills you should to live out here you should be able to fight enough to make them go away.

Being cloaked is safe, but ultimately less useful than sitting in a station, because at least when your docked you can still play the market, do some of your PI, and manufacture, while the cloaker can sit there and fap, and not much more.

Unless he is playing with a team, but then we come to the fact that you should be playing with a team too Laughing

Edit: Newt beat me to it, I spent to much time being long winded Cool


Pages: first : previous : 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (11)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only