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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.08.12 08:19:00 - [1]
 

I have closed all my deals except two. One should finish with no issue but one risks to be impossible to.

A client of mine handed me a number of capital BPOs to copy. He mailed me about his prolonged absence but also that he'd check in weekly. Now, he just disappeared completely and is not replying my eve mails as well.

What is the best way to deal with this in your opinion?

1) Ask Chribba / Grendell to hold his stuff till he eventually restart playing? This has 2 downsides:

- Chribba / Grendell would want a fee for that, and I am not so hot about losing my money because of the client absence.

- I am passing the client's property to someone else. Sure, it's Chribba / Grendell but it's still not a clause we pre-agreed upon, I don't know if it's a breach of trust.


2) Keep the stuff myself and eve-mail the person that when he wants his stuff back to RL-mail me and feed me a PLEX to reactivate 1 of my accounts. Of course this will be a loss for him, probably bigger than what he'll do by selling the BPCs I made for him.

I already spent 2 months worth of extending my sub just waiting for him, I don't want to pay forever.


Ideas?

Glorfindel Calmcacil
Karma Industries
Posted - 2011.08.12 08:26:00 - [2]
 

If there is simply a lack of communication from the client in regards to his property then I would go for the mail him and he can give you a PLEX option. This way you are not immediately out of pocket, he may not ever come back to get them so a 3rd party could be a waste and I think the PLEX option would likely be cheaper.

In that situation you would expect the client to understand, or, at least I would..

Just my 2p.

Glorf.

Atima
Minmatar
House of Marbles
Posted - 2011.08.12 08:27:00 - [3]
 

Ask his corpmates for RL contact info, if they cant provide either :

Give them to someone here you trust or mail him your own info.

Dracnys
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.12 08:29:00 - [4]
 

Sell the BPOs and BPCs to someone is willing to hold them and send your client the ISK and a message telling him to contact the buyer to rebuy his blueprints. Now someone else has the problem and you're good to go! Well the buyer ties up money of his in the blueprints, maybe he could copy them at the cost of a little inconvenience wait on the client's side.

flakeys
The Great cornholio's
Paper Tiger Coalition
Posted - 2011.08.12 08:32:00 - [5]
 

I usually take breaks from eve but even then i still check allmost daily the forums and mailbox and am subbed till somewhere next year - soon to be subbed till end of next year.

So if you can't find a way to reach him i'd be happy if you mail the guy saying i am holding them and to contact me as soon as he get's ingame.Free of charge offfcourse duh :).

Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies
Joint Venture Conglomerate
Posted - 2011.08.12 08:36:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

- I am passing the client's property to someone else. Sure, it's Chribba / Grendell but it's still not a clause we pre-agreed upon, I don't know if it's a breach of trust.


If your client originally agreed to check their mail regularly and have failed to do so then they have already broken, albeit in a minor way, the agreement they have with you.

Under those circumstances I don't feel it's unreasonable for you to make alternate provision for returning their BPOs.

Bad Bobby
The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.08.12 08:43:00 - [7]
 

What are the BPOs in question?

What rate of BPC production did you agree with the client? Is it the full output from a POS lab (17 BPCs per month) or less?

What price did you agree with the client per BPC produced?

If these figures are reasonable, then I could buy the BPOs from you, copy them and sell the BPCs on the market. When the client returns from his hiatus, I can sell the BPOs to him for the same price I paid you for them and also give him the isk for the BPCs (minus the fee you had agreed with him) or provide him with the equivalent number of highly researched BPCs (for the fee you had agreed with him).

The trust issue should be moot, since he would get isk for the BPOs anyway and it would be in my interest to honor the arrangement for the agreed fee. Obviously, this assumes that your agreement with him was reasonably profitable rather than a charity deal.

Nomad Quento
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.12 08:47:00 - [8]
 

If I understand you correctly you have a char which has received some BPOs for copy from a client. Now the client has disapeared and you want to deactivate your account with your BPO-copy-char?

I don't know your agreement but why don't you just transfer all your stuff from your BPO-char to one of your other (active) chars and write an EVE-mail to your client saying that he has X months to claim his BPOs/BPCs or else you will consider them your personal asset (of course you should have his notified prolonged absence in consideration)? I don't see it as your problem that the client doesn't show up and you cannot keep other peoples stuff forever.

// Nomad Quento

Bad Bobby
The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.08.12 09:02:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Nomad Quento
If I understand you correctly you have a char which has received some BPOs for copy from a client. Now the client has disapeared and you want to deactivate your account with your BPO-copy-char?

I don't know your agreement but why don't you just transfer all your stuff from your BPO-char to one of your other (active) chars and write an EVE-mail to your client saying that he has X months to claim his BPOs/BPCs or else you will consider them your personal asset (of course you should have his notified prolonged absence in consideration)? I don't see it as your problem that the client doesn't show up and you cannot keep other peoples stuff forever.

// Nomad Quento

I think he's unsubbing all of his accounts, so this method is not available to him.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.12 09:07:00 - [10]
 


Create a trial account & train contract skill.
Transfer the asset to the trial account.
Eve-mail the customer a RL email address.
When he contacts you use the temp activation feature on the trial account and contract the property to him.

Titans 4U
Titans For You
Posted - 2011.08.12 09:12:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Create a trial account & train contract skill.
Transfer the asset to the trial account.
Eve-mail the customer a RL email address.
When he contacts you use the temp activation feature on the trial account and contract the property to him.

Seems like a decent way to do it if you don't need to produce the BPCs for him. Obviously it might be somewhat less than desirable for the client if he was expecting to return to a nice pile of BPCs.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.08.12 10:17:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 12/08/2011 10:23:09
Originally by: Wyke Mossari

Create a trial account & train contract skill.
Transfer the asset to the trial account.
Eve-mail the customer a RL email address.
When he contacts you use the temp activation feature on the trial account and contract the property to him.


Quote:

Contracting

This skill allows you to create formal agreements with other characters.

For each level of this skill the number of outstanding contracts is increased by four (up to a maximum of 21 at level 5)

Note: Cannot be trained on trial accounts




@BB

No, the deal was at quite cheap pricing, since as everyone knows I never cared to make the zillions in EvE (I just can't roleplay myself into Monopoly money), basically it covered POS empty slots for fuel cost + a little surcharge.

Edit: my main reason to have POSes was to research my own BPOs since that was what I was after (self making my first Rifter to my first capitals, for some reason I like to achieve that in MMOs). It was not my money maker so I happily covered possible remaining slots with 3rd party BPs.

Bluebeard
Minmatar
LoneStar Industries
Comatose Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.12 10:31:00 - [13]
 

Ask Chribba to hold the blueprints, with the client paying Chribba's fee.
It's not your fault that your client has vanished.

Cyniac
Gallente
Twilight Star Rangers
Posted - 2011.08.12 10:40:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
2) Keep the stuff myself and eve-mail the person that when he wants his stuff back to RL-mail me and feed me a PLEX to reactivate 1 of my accounts. Of course this will be a loss for him, probably bigger than what he'll do by selling the BPCs I made for him.


This seems the best option:

No third party involved - it's all between your client and yourself. Any transfer of the BPOs to a third party would also result in a transfer of responsibilities which could lead to the same problem all over again, regardless of whom the third party might be.

Would this be a loss for the client? A relative one, yes, but they are exceptional circumstances, with issues arising on both sides of the deal (in your case your departure from EVE, and in his the fact he is unreachable for quite some time). In this instance at least you can guarantee that the BPOs will be returned no one else is involved.

Lutz Major
Posted - 2011.08.12 10:46:00 - [15]
 

I'm sure your business contracts weren't about you not leaving or extending your subscription for two months, just to wait for him to return.

Everybody has RL issues, which sometimes conflict with being able to log in.
He told you that he will be absent, but promised to check his mails from time to time.

Nobody knows, when or if he might return (tried to ask his corpmates, if they know an ETA?).

I know you honour your agreements very much, but forcing you to have an active subscription and upkeep the copying process, is by far not a gentlemen's agreement.

Stick with option 2) He should pay you a plex - a small token, when compared to the worth of the BPOs (and the BPCs you made until now).

Don't put the needs of your clients above yours!


Caliph Muhammed
Caldari
Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service
Posted - 2011.08.12 10:50:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 12/08/2011 10:54:27
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
I have closed all my deals except two. One should finish with no issue but one risks to be impossible to.

A client of mine handed me a number of capital BPOs to copy. He mailed me about his prolonged absence but also that he'd check in weekly. Now, he just disappeared completely and is not replying my eve mails as well.

What is the best way to deal with this in your opinion?

1) Ask Chribba / Grendell to hold his stuff till he eventually restart playing? This has 2 downsides:

- Chribba / Grendell would want a fee for that, and I am not so hot about losing my money because of the client absence.

- I am passing the client's property to someone else. Sure, it's Chribba / Grendell but it's still not a clause we pre-agreed upon, I don't know if it's a breach of trust.


2) Keep the stuff myself and eve-mail the person that when he wants his stuff back to RL-mail me and feed me a PLEX to reactivate 1 of my accounts. Of course this will be a loss for him, probably bigger than what he'll do by selling the BPCs I made for him.

I already spent 2 months worth of extending my sub just waiting for him, I don't want to pay forever.


Ideas?



Honor your deal. Acting as a 3rd party comes with a notion you aren't quitting the game. The guy may be late but he's entrusted you with a large amount of ISK and assumed you could make use of them until he returned.

How much is the fee associated with having someone hold them?


TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.08.12 11:27:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Cyniac
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
2) Keep the stuff myself and eve-mail the person that when he wants his stuff back to RL-mail me and feed me a PLEX to reactivate 1 of my accounts. Of course this will be a loss for him, probably bigger than what he'll do by selling the BPCs I made for him.


This seems the best option:

No third party involved - it's all between your client and yourself. Any transfer of the BPOs to a third party would also result in a transfer of responsibilities which could lead to the same problem all over again, regardless of whom the third party might be.

Would this be a loss for the client? A relative one, yes, but they are exceptional circumstances, with issues arising on both sides of the deal (in your case your departure from EVE, and in his the fact he is unreachable for quite some time). In this instance at least you can guarantee that the BPOs will be returned no one else is involved.


Agreed this would probably be the best given the circumstances.
It's not ideal - But given the circumstances nothing really would be.

----

I'll give you another option :

I'll offer to hold the BPO's for 2 (two) years - at no cost (but also no copying - as in the above scenario).
After the 2 years I get to keep the BPO's (or sell them or whatever).

2 years seems to me a more than adequate time frame to gauge that he will most likely never return.

This at least ensures that the BPO's will stay in the economy (I don't like waste...)


Bad Bobby
The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.08.12 11:46:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
I just can't roleplay myself into Monopoly money

To be honest, my experience of RP EVE players is that their behaviour often runs contrary to maximising profits. In that respect, I think you're fairly representative of the type. Although I guess you aren't roleplaying your EVE persona at all and you are this eccentric in real life.

Claire Voyant
Posted - 2011.08.12 11:47:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: TornSoul
This at least ensures that the BPO's will stay in the economy (I don't like waste...)

There are too many d*mn cap ship BPOs in this game. I say deep six the account and use the "hours for plex" feature to send them back to the guy if he resurfaces, which he won't.

Tigerras
Smash Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.12 11:56:00 - [20]
 

In my opinion, you should contact a third party that will actually be playing the game in the forseeable future, you should pay the fee, and in that way you can be sure your reputation in internet spaceship game is secure.

It is true that your client is unavailable, which breaches the original agreement, but you are also leaving, which was certainly not agreed upon during the setup of this service. If I were the client, I'd rather a trusted third party hold the items than someone I don't know or me having to pay a PLEX to get my property back.

flakeys
The Great cornholio's
Paper Tiger Coalition
Posted - 2011.08.12 12:01:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Caliph Muhammed
How much is the fee associated with having someone hold them?




Free if he places them in my hands Wink

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.08.12 12:23:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Bad Bobby
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
I just can't roleplay myself into Monopoly money

To be honest, my experience of RP EVE players is that their behaviour often runs contrary to maximising profits. In that respect, I think you're fairly representative of the type. Although I guess you aren't roleplaying your EVE persona at all and you are this eccentric in real life.


Yeah I am eccentric even if of course it's a subjective point of view.
IE to me money is something boring like driving cars, something to use, to buy food / have a life / family etc. not the end to peruse nor some show off badge.


Originally by: Tigerras
In my opinion, you should contact a third party that will actually be playing the game in the forseeable future, you should pay the fee, and in that way you can be sure your reputation in internet spaceship game is secure.

It is true that your client is unavailable, which breaches the original agreement, but you are also leaving, which was certainly not agreed upon during the setup of this service. If I were the client, I'd rather a trusted third party hold the items than someone I don't know or me having to pay a PLEX to get my property back.


It was not agreed that CCP would feel me make bad enough to leave as well, I was fully intentioned to play for the next years. Also, I can't tell the whole deal but it was meant to start as pilot project to be eventually expanded. ATM it's in limbo and I extended 2 subs for 2 months (read: buy 4 PLEXes = cost) to mitigate the lack of agreement on stopping the copying. I can't really see myself spending more, plus until I stay subbed I am tempted to play again and (even worse!) to post on the forums. Twisted Evil

Bad Bobby
The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.08.12 12:39:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
money is ... something to use, to buy food / have a life / family etc. not the end to peruse nor some show off badge.

I agree. Money is just a means to an end.

But still, if you want to have the means to reach whatever end gratifies you, money helps.

In this specific case, money would have removed the need for you to unsub your characters and therefore remove the hassle from this whole situation.

RAW23
Posted - 2011.08.12 13:05:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Bad Bobby
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
money is ... something to use, to buy food / have a life / family etc. not the end to peruse nor some show off badge.

I agree. Money is just a means to an end.

But still, if you want to have the means to reach whatever end gratifies you, money helps.

In this specific case, money would have removed the need for you to unsub your characters and therefore remove the hassle from this whole situation.

Not really. If you are trying to quit in protest at CCP's decisions, keeping your accounts subbed rather defeats the purpose.

Btw, why so hungry for prints atm?

@VV - If you are being paid to do the copying then just keep that going until the next payment is due and then stop it. I think the rl contact address and then hours for plex is the best way forward, rather than transferring stuff to another third party as this would add risk that your client didn't sign up for.

Caliph Muhammed
Caldari
Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service
Posted - 2011.08.12 13:14:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 12/08/2011 13:16:17

Originally by: TornSoul
Originally by: Cyniac
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
2) Keep the stuff myself and eve-mail the person that when he wants his stuff back to RL-mail me and feed me a PLEX to reactivate 1 of my accounts. Of course this will be a loss for him, probably bigger than what he'll do by selling the BPCs I made for him.


This seems the best option:

No third party involved - it's all between your client and yourself. Any transfer of the BPOs to a third party would also result in a transfer of responsibilities which could lead to the same problem all over again, regardless of whom the third party might be.

Would this be a loss for the client? A relative one, yes, but they are exceptional circumstances, with issues arising on both sides of the deal (in your case your departure from EVE, and in his the fact he is unreachable for quite some time). In this instance at least you can guarantee that the BPOs will be returned no one else is involved.


Agreed this would probably be the best given the circumstances.
It's not ideal - But given the circumstances nothing really would be.

----

I'll give you another option :

I'll offer to hold the BPO's for 2 (two) years - at no cost (but also no copying - as in the above scenario).
After the 2 years I get to keep the BPO's (or sell them or whatever).

2 years seems to me a more than adequate time frame to gauge that he will most likely never return.

This at least ensures that the BPO's will stay in the economy (I don't like waste...)




I support this option using my best judgement of character and track record. As a stipulation make the clients name public so others can monitor when they come online.

Assuming real life contact is impossible.

Molic Blackbird
Gallente
Orion Faction Industries
Posted - 2011.08.12 13:59:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

2) Keep the stuff myself and eve-mail the person that when he wants his stuff back to RL-mail me and feed me a PLEX to reactivate 1 of my accounts. Of course this will be a loss for him, probably bigger than what he'll do by selling the BPCs I made for him.



I would do that, but instead of asking for a PLEX to reactivate, I would use the 4 free hours that CCP gives in the 'Hours for PLEX' program to contract the BPOs over. Since you have no plans to reactivate your account, any downside to using those 4 free hours for this is minimal.

Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
Posted - 2011.08.12 15:15:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Grendell on 12/08/2011 15:18:36
EDIT: I can't spell thanks!

As it's been stated it's probably best to just let them stay in your possession, as they were entrusted to you. That's just me though.Wink
's

Tigerras
Smash Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.12 15:25:00 - [28]
 

Can you contract during the hours for plex time? I know you cannot skill train.

Zeta Zhul
Caldari
Preemptive Paranoia
Posted - 2011.08.12 20:27:00 - [29]
 

Off hand I'm probably going to just let my 5 accounts continue. Frankly I'm not playing very much but since I can maintain my corp operations @ 1 hour/week it isn't that big a deal. If nothing else I'll just go ahead and continue training my alts.

That said if you need a resolution to this you can contract them to me and I'll hold them for the indefinite future. My corp operations are making about 10bil/month profit which more than offsets the 5 plex/month I need to keep it all going.

Otherwise let me know if I can be of help in this.

Jak Silverheart
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.12 20:37:00 - [30]
 

Just give him one of your alt names to Eve mail or your email to contact you latter in game when he returns to get the BPO back. Personally I tell him my email and tell him to contact me through that, and to send me a plex to reactivate my account to give him back his BPO for the inconvenience. Which is more than justified in my opinion, the fact your not running away with the BPO's would be something I be surprised at, considering the circumstances if I were him.

But in the meantime keep it on your account, or send it to one of your alts and make some money on it while you wait for him. Personally I just use the BPO to make money till he comes back.


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