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blankseplocked So, balance is bad.
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Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope
Posted - 2011.08.12 19:00:00 - [31]

I'm not so sure about the idea that balance is bad.

Sure, some imbalance is good from the carrot-on-a-stick point of view, but it's not good from the point of view of making a classic game.

From a "classic" point of view, ships and modules should be balanced as much as possible so that it's player/character skill, experience and knowledge, and player/character skill, experience and knowledge ONLY, that tips the balance.

Frank Truck
Posted - 2011.08.12 19:30:00 - [32]

Before you can balance you have to fit, fit changes things.

So list the perfect fit for all ships, then CCP can balance those fits.

Then everyone will refit.

There are so many variables, not the least of which is fleet numbers ([email protected] 1v1 balance), that to me balance is making sure there are no extremes, no massive OP, no massive suckage.

Perfect balance is Doom II, every thing is EXACTLY the same including the weapons, bow-ring...

Posted - 2011.08.12 20:23:00 - [33]

Slight imbalance is good and helps to differentiate the races, but When winmatttar own the best or second best of every none ewar class of ships in the game, thats more than slight imbalance.

Posted - 2011.08.12 20:37:00 - [34]

My beef with CCP and their Golden Nerf Bat is that they insist on changing or removing exisiting content instead of just creating new content to offset a perceived "imbalance".

Falcon overpowered? Forget about adding a module or ship to the game with better resists. Let's just nerf the sh*t out of the Falcon and spend the next year "rebalancing" every other recon as a result.

To me, that's why we are constantly wondering "WTF?" when CCP "fixes" something. It's also why people are so damn short fuzed when new CCP content fails - they hate having their game endlessly meddled with.

Pok Nibin
Posted - 2011.08.13 00:22:00 - [35]

I play with one arm tied behind my back and a full beer mug perched atop my head. How much more balance do you need??

Posted - 2011.08.13 01:45:00 - [36]

CCP doesn't like balance because it requires intellectual honesty and the ability to think rationally.

Posted - 2011.08.13 01:53:00 - [37]

Edited by: VaMei on 13/08/2011 02:05:08
Originally by: Veronica Kerrigan
Edited by: Veronica Kerrigan on 11/08/2011 23:23:19
CCP reveals that they don't want a balanced game! In an interview with CCP Soundwave, it is revealed that CCP doesn't want ships to be balanced, ever. What does the community at large think? I personally agree with CCP, but are there others who don't?

If 'balance' means that everything is the same with only skin differences, and there's no reason to consider cross-training, then I agree that balance is bad.

If 'balance' means that every skill, ship, and system in the game has a purpose where it is either the best at a niche task or a trade off at a common task, then I want it.

A=B=C is bad, since there is no reason for players to choose this over that.
A<B<C is bad, and will lead to everyone using 'C', which can only be countered by more 'C'.
A<<B<<C<<A is bad, since execution has little or no impact on an outcome that was decided before you undocked.
A<=B<=C<=A is not 'balanced' but is good game design. Nothing is the best, and chance will skew the odds, but those odds can be overcome by execution.

Pok Nibin
Posted - 2011.08.13 03:15:00 - [38]

Edited by: Pok Nibin on 13/08/2011 03:17:55

I think for the sake of this discussion balance means hybrid turrets/projectile turrets/beam weapons have a comparable amount of damage. S, M, L taken into account. One weapon isn't markedly more powerful, or useful (might be a better word) than another.

I think in EVE it's Amarr for large beam weapons dominating the BS class. Caldari's Drake missile boat (supposedly) dominates the BC class. Minmatar with the Rifter gets to have the frigate class honors. Gallente gets drones.

This, of course, is wildly exaggerated, but conventional thinking. Getting into the more exotic ships the possibilities become more wide-ranging. And, of course as has been mentioned, training...preferred leaning in training or specialization begins to skew the concept of balance.

But, as a starting point, say a Caldari frig should be able to stand toe-to-toe with a Minmatar frig - all skills being equal with meta 1 (for instance) mods. Then, the pilot's shrewdness at skill planning, acquiring wealth (and so the better mods) would all derive from a relatively equal starting point.

I'm not arguing this should be the case so much as saying this is what I gather is the concept of balance. From my perspective as an Amarrian; I chose the race with the intention of piloting armor tanked, close in (cheek to cheek) combat with a rock 'em, sock 'em feel, rather than standing far off (Drake style) shooting from 60k. Though, as I got more into the training and ship upgrade, I wound up with my Pokyclipse that can hit well at 40K.

All along we've been making choices based on preference. Initially, a lot of players feel safer hitting from a distance (for instance) and tend to try to develop a good defense with long-range firepower. My idea of a "good ship" has changed several times over time. My goal, naturally, is to make the fight uneven as best I can. To do that, though, I don't like the idea of having a starting point that has a marked advantage over possible opponents (Minmatar scum!) I like to be assured what advantages I've acquired are the result of decisions I've made.

So, wall of text style, the upshot for me in "balance" is that foundation on which we build as we make these decisions and commitments of time and resources...if that makes sense. If it doesn't, maybe you need to try a different brand of bud.

Gwenywell Shumuku
Posted - 2011.08.13 08:10:00 - [39]

Edited by: Gwenywell Shumuku on 13/08/2011 08:10:22
Its simple: the moment the only counter to something is using the same thing, its bad.

Rock/paper/scissor is good, EVE used to go that way, SCs totally broke that (like Titans-DD before). CCP has done a terrible job with Caps, and thats pretty much it.

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