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Ceelah
Posted - 2011.08.13 16:31:00 - [151]
 

Edited by: Ceelah on 13/08/2011 16:43:49
Originally by: Taedrin

I was responding to a claim that warp-to-15km discouraged solo play in EVE. I am not advocating a return of warp-to-15km: I am just saying that I liked it better.

BUT, for the sake of argument: you are comparing apples to oranges: warp to zero was not introduced in order to nerf pirates - it was introduced to save the database from the torture players were putting it under. At the time WTZ was introduced, 80% of the data in the database were entries in the bookmark table. CCP didn't want to remove warp-to-15km, but they had to at the time, because they had no means of neutering insta bookmarks besides WTZ.

All of the changes that you mention are balancing changes to prevent EVE from becoming homogenized - not because TQ needed a performance boost (well, except for the first nano-nerf which was breaking the physics engine)

1. The nano-nerf was introduced because EVERYONE was flying nano, and the only counter to a nano was to fly a rapier, and even then they can just disengage.

3. Once again, the myrmidon/Eos nerfs were because the Eos was a better gank boat than the Astarte, and the myrmidon dealt more damage than most battleships, in a battlecruiser hull.

4. Same as the nano-nerf: everyone was flying falcon. Of course, I would have preferred if CCP had given ECCM a combat advantage, just like every other ew-counter.

5. There are many people who would agree with you here, and CCP is considering such a change.

6. NOS-nerf was introduced because nobody was using neuts. IMO, though, NOS-nerf was heavy handed, as very few people fit NOS now.

7. You are saying you get to select 6 playstyle changes for every 1 playstyle that you dislike, which hardly makes for a strong argument.


You kind of failed at reading. I know that all of the above stuff I put down is petty and unreasonable.

I didn't argue that I should get 6 things for every one thing. I threw six wild ass demands out there, and I'm guessing you grew a unibrow, over-heated your T2 Post Module, and then demonstrated that someone will always have a demand or argument to counter every one of your demands.

That was the intent of the post... to point out that entertaining a return to old game mechanics opens up a whole can of worms for other people who also have special requests for how they play(ed) the game. Before you know it all of those requests start to pretty much propose unraveling everything else in the game.

It was sarcasm (iirc I listed some pretty selfish and silly reasons for my demands), and at the very bottom (the part where I typed "OR") I clearly indicated that the alternative to all kinds of special demands to suit one player was to simply get on with life in EVE and adapt to the things in game that everyone else has to adapt to.

Rolling Eyes

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.08.13 18:17:00 - [152]
 

Originally by: Viceroy
WTZ was a terrible solution to instajumps that removed the databse cluttering while reinforcing the actual game breaking aspect of instajumps; that they provide super fast, super safe travel at no cost and require extraordinary effort to counter. This in turn made EVE much much smaller than it used to be, and made every ship roughly the same in terms of travel speed and safety, greatly reducing tactical, strategic and logistical variation and basically dumbing the game down so that carebears could have faster access to more content without as much risk.

There was one simple solution to instajumps that CCP ignored back then, and the same solution will work today for WTZ. Make it impossible to warp closer than 15km to gates. Bubbles already do this, just use the same code and the entire discussion about bookmarks becomes irrelevant. I find it hilarious that CCP coded bubbles as a counterweight to WTZ after removing instajumps, but failed to realize that simply adding the same mechanic to gates would have fixed instajumps in the first place without any need for bubbles or WTZ.

All the miserable carebears in this thread who are crying their eyes out and pooping their pants over the prospect of WTZ being removed and piracy/ganking becoming easier are automatically wrong because whilst before WTZ you could run a blockade with a properly fitted/sized fast ship and some planning, after WTZ the size and fitting of your ship became entirely irrelevant thanks to bubbles.

The primary reason why WTZ broke the game though isn't about travel safety. Ultimately, WTZ didn't make travel so much safer as much as it made it simpler and dumber (greater sins by far). Before WTZ smart people would scout ahead and avoid trouble, as they do now. The unprepared and stupid would die. The difference was the extent to which you could prepare (using a smaller and faster ship to run blockades vs. just waiting because there is a bubble) or take risks (running blockade = variable chance of dying based on your setup and the enemy vs. jumping into a bubble = 99% instadeath). It just became a simpler equation with WTZ, which made the game worse and the instant-gratification crowd extremely happy.

No, the reason WTZ broke the game is because it utterly and completely screwed up travel times. It not only made travel absolutely faster for every ship, but it also shrank the travel time differential between bigger and smaller ships down to negligibility (aka warp speed). Travel fittings no longer mattered, fleets didn't need to fit MWDs to travel fast, and large ships went almost as fast as frigates. This in turn made the universe much much smaller, conflicts less consequental, planning less complex, space less vast, 0.0 less scary, the frontier less daunting, and sapped a lot of things that made EVE unique and exciting. Instead we got a dose of the treadmill & instant-gratification culture that proliferates certain games with goddamn elves and dwarves.

Prism, if you want a side project, adopt the cause of removing WTZ and fixing travel times in EVE. The benefit of making bookmarks easier to trade is a drop of irrelevant water compared to the sea of carebear tears and torrents of joy that would flow at the funeral of WTZ.


Thank you Viceroy for saving me from a lot of typing.

What he said.

mkint
Posted - 2011.08.13 18:31:00 - [153]
 

Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Viceroy
WTZ was a terrible solution to instajumps that removed the databse cluttering while reinforcing the actual game breaking aspect of instajumps; that they provide super fast, super safe travel at no cost and require extraordinary effort to counter. This in turn made EVE much much smaller than it used to be, and made every ship roughly the same in terms of travel speed and safety, greatly reducing tactical, strategic and logistical variation and basically dumbing the game down so that carebears could have faster access to more content without as much risk.

There was one simple solution to instajumps that CCP ignored back then, and the same solution will work today for WTZ. Make it impossible to warp closer than 15km to gates. Bubbles already do this, just use the same code and the entire discussion about bookmarks becomes irrelevant. I find it hilarious that CCP coded bubbles as a counterweight to WTZ after removing instajumps, but failed to realize that simply adding the same mechanic to gates would have fixed instajumps in the first place without any need for bubbles or WTZ.

All the miserable carebears in this thread who are crying their eyes out and pooping their pants over the prospect of WTZ being removed and piracy/ganking becoming easier are automatically wrong because whilst before WTZ you could run a blockade with a properly fitted/sized fast ship and some planning, after WTZ the size and fitting of your ship became entirely irrelevant thanks to bubbles.

The primary reason why WTZ broke the game though isn't about travel safety. Ultimately, WTZ didn't make travel so much safer as much as it made it simpler and dumber (greater sins by far). Before WTZ smart people would scout ahead and avoid trouble, as they do now. The unprepared and stupid would die. The difference was the extent to which you could prepare (using a smaller and faster ship to run blockades vs. just waiting because there is a bubble) or take risks (running blockade = variable chance of dying based on your setup and the enemy vs. jumping into a bubble = 99% instadeath). It just became a simpler equation with WTZ, which made the game worse and the instant-gratification crowd extremely happy.

No, the reason WTZ broke the game is because it utterly and completely screwed up travel times. It not only made travel absolutely faster for every ship, but it also shrank the travel time differential between bigger and smaller ships down to negligibility (aka warp speed). Travel fittings no longer mattered, fleets didn't need to fit MWDs to travel fast, and large ships went almost as fast as frigates. This in turn made the universe much much smaller, conflicts less consequental, planning less complex, space less vast, 0.0 less scary, the frontier less daunting, and sapped a lot of things that made EVE unique and exciting. Instead we got a dose of the treadmill & instant-gratification culture that proliferates certain games with goddamn elves and dwarves.

Prism, if you want a side project, adopt the cause of removing WTZ and fixing travel times in EVE. The benefit of making bookmarks easier to trade is a drop of irrelevant water compared to the sea of carebear tears and torrents of joy that would flow at the funeral of WTZ.


Thank you Viceroy for saving me from a lot of typing.

What he said.


Yeah! Remove Jump Drives and Jump Bridges! I agree!

Prism: if you want a project, how about making warp speed matter?

FeralShadow
NME1
Posted - 2011.08.13 18:58:00 - [154]
 

i think just removing all bookmarks would be perfect. people would fight more, people would cooperate more, and not be able to just sit in the middle of nowhere all day long. Probe for plexes, do plexes, people probe for you while you're doing it, there's already more than enough options for warp spots if you're being chased, because you have every distance on every object in space that you can warp to, multitudes of moons, bunkers, open plex beacons, customs offices... all of it. For people to say that taking away bookmarks is a bad thing because "where will you go for sniping" or "where will you go for safety", you warp to the gates at 100k if you want to snipe. You warp to planets or moons or customs offices or any other of the multitude of objects for safety.

Pesky LaRue
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.08.13 19:12:00 - [155]
 

Edited by: Pesky LaRue on 13/08/2011 19:17:56
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
the only ones complaining are just lazy pirate-wannabes like the OP.
this.
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
If we could drag bookmarks into the chat window, and right-click to add bookmark on BMs in the chat window that would make life so much easier.
and this.
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
ITT: Tears of the unadaptable and failed ePirates.
and this
Originally by: Tinilya
Yeah, WTZ should be removed because I just love wasting more time doing menial tasks in Eve.
and this

Pesky LaRue
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.08.13 19:15:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: CCP Prism X
I actually never said anything about WTZ other than implying that even with a BM overhaul there's no guarantee for WTZ being removed. I just want to overhaul the BM system because the technical limitations of that are the true reason for the introduction of WTZ so it feels like something left behind. I could see myself having fun with making a new BM system.. that says absolutely nothing about removing WTZ.

So.. I'm kinda admitting to derailing the topic in a direction I have interests in. Twisted Evil
It's how I roll!
even having said this, it's amazing how many posters ("trolls") deliberately or with willful, retarded abandon misinterpret your intention :)

Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.13 19:21:00 - [157]
 

Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Viceroy
WTZ was a terrible solution to instajumps that removed the databse cluttering while reinforcing the actual game breaking aspect of instajumps; that they provide super fast, super safe travel at no cost and require extraordinary effort to counter. This in turn made EVE much much smaller than it used to be, and made every ship roughly the same in terms of travel speed and safety, greatly reducing tactical, strategic and logistical variation and basically dumbing the game down so that carebears could have faster access to more content without as much risk.

There was one simple solution to instajumps that CCP ignored back then, and the same solution will work today for WTZ. Make it impossible to warp closer than 15km to gates. Bubbles already do this, just use the same code and the entire discussion about bookmarks becomes irrelevant. I find it hilarious that CCP coded bubbles as a counterweight to WTZ after removing instajumps, but failed to realize that simply adding the same mechanic to gates would have fixed instajumps in the first place without any need for bubbles or WTZ.

All the miserable carebears in this thread who are crying their eyes out and pooping their pants over the prospect of WTZ being removed and piracy/ganking becoming easier are automatically wrong because whilst before WTZ you could run a blockade with a properly fitted/sized fast ship and some planning, after WTZ the size and fitting of your ship became entirely irrelevant thanks to bubbles.

The primary reason why WTZ broke the game though isn't about travel safety. Ultimately, WTZ didn't make travel so much safer as much as it made it simpler and dumber (greater sins by far). Before WTZ smart people would scout ahead and avoid trouble, as they do now. The unprepared and stupid would die. The difference was the extent to which you could prepare (using a smaller and faster ship to run blockades vs. just waiting because there is a bubble) or take risks (running blockade = variable chance of dying based on your setup and the enemy vs. jumping into a bubble = 99% instadeath). It just became a simpler equation with WTZ, which made the game worse and the instant-gratification crowd extremely happy.

No, the reason WTZ broke the game is because it utterly and completely screwed up travel times. It not only made travel absolutely faster for every ship, but it also shrank the travel time differential between bigger and smaller ships down to negligibility (aka warp speed). Travel fittings no longer mattered, fleets didn't need to fit MWDs to travel fast, and large ships went almost as fast as frigates. This in turn made the universe much much smaller, conflicts less consequental, planning less complex, space less vast, 0.0 less scary, the frontier less daunting, and sapped a lot of things that made EVE unique and exciting. Instead we got a dose of the treadmill & instant-gratification culture that proliferates certain games with goddamn elves and dwarves.

Prism, if you want a side project, adopt the cause of removing WTZ and fixing travel times in EVE. The benefit of making bookmarks easier to trade is a drop of irrelevant water compared to the sea of carebear tears and torrents of joy that would flow at the funeral of WTZ.


Thank you Viceroy for saving me from a lot of typing.

What he said.



Yes, remove jump drives, please.

Cue Raidendot failure 30 seconds later.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.08.13 19:32:00 - [158]
 

Originally by: mkint

Yeah! Remove Jump Drives and Jump Bridges! I agree!


Me too. And jump clones aswell.

Meryl SinGarda
Caldari
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
Posted - 2011.08.13 19:33:00 - [159]
 

No.

Nika Dekaia
Posted - 2011.08.13 19:34:00 - [160]
 

Originally by: Viceroy
WTZ was a terrible solution to instajumps that removed the databse cluttering while reinforcing the actual game breaking aspect of instajumps; that they provide super fast, super safe travel at no cost and require extraordinary effort to counter. This in turn made EVE much much smaller than it used to be, and made every ship roughly the same in terms of travel speed and safety, greatly reducing tactical, strategic and logistical variation and basically dumbing the game down so that carebears could have faster access to more content without as much risk.

There was one simple solution to instajumps that CCP ignored back then, and the same solution will work today for WTZ. Make it impossible to warp closer than 15km to gates. Bubbles already do this, just use the same code and the entire discussion about bookmarks becomes irrelevant. I find it hilarious that CCP coded bubbles as a counterweight to WTZ after removing instajumps, but failed to realize that simply adding the same mechanic to gates would have fixed instajumps in the first place without any need for bubbles or WTZ.

All the miserable carebears in this thread who are crying their eyes out and pooping their pants over the prospect of WTZ being removed and piracy/ganking becoming easier are automatically wrong because whilst before WTZ you could run a blockade with a properly fitted/sized fast ship and some planning, after WTZ the size and fitting of your ship became entirely irrelevant thanks to bubbles.

The primary reason why WTZ broke the game though isn't about travel safety. Ultimately, WTZ didn't make travel so much safer as much as it made it simpler and dumber (greater sins by far). Before WTZ smart people would scout ahead and avoid trouble, as they do now. The unprepared and stupid would die. The difference was the extent to which you could prepare (using a smaller and faster ship to run blockades vs. just waiting because there is a bubble) or take risks (running blockade = variable chance of dying based on your setup and the enemy vs. jumping into a bubble = 99% instadeath). It just became a simpler equation with WTZ, which made the game worse and the instant-gratification crowd extremely happy.

No, the reason WTZ broke the game is because it utterly and completely screwed up travel times. It not only made travel absolutely faster for every ship, but it also shrank the travel time differential between bigger and smaller ships down to negligibility (aka warp speed). Travel fittings no longer mattered, fleets didn't need to fit MWDs to travel fast, and large ships went almost as fast as frigates. This in turn made the universe much much smaller, conflicts less consequental, planning less complex, space less vast, 0.0 less scary, the frontier less daunting, and sapped a lot of things that made EVE unique and exciting. Instead we got a dose of the treadmill & instant-gratification culture that proliferates certain games with goddamn elves and dwarves.

Prism, if you want a side project, adopt the cause of removing WTZ and fixing travel times in EVE. The benefit of making bookmarks easier to trade is a drop of irrelevant water compared to the sea of carebear tears and torrents of joy that would flow at the funeral of WTZ.
This. Eve has become too small.


Tobias Sjodin
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.13 19:41:00 - [161]
 

Originally by: Viceroy

[...] the reason WTZ broke the game is because it utterly and completely screwed up travel times. It not only made travel absolutely faster for every ship, but it also shrank the travel time differential between bigger and smaller ships down to negligibility (aka warp speed). Travel fittings no longer mattered, fleets didn't need to fit MWDs to travel fast, and large ships went almost as fast as frigates. This in turn made the universe much much smaller, conflicts less consequental, planning less complex, space less vast, 0.0 less scary, the frontier less daunting, and sapped a lot of things that made EVE unique and exciting.


This. Just. Nails. it. down. perfectly.






Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.08.13 19:41:00 - [162]
 

How about this instead, guaranteed to end lazy gate camper whines once and for all!

I propose that CCP make NPC drakes that just roam around in space, they are on autopilot, they have basic meta 1 / t1 equipment that they buy from the market, they will continue to roam until they get caught, when they get caught, they type generic smack in local.

Maybe someone could even make a Flash game involving gatecamping, I'm sure theres a nice profit margin in it involved seeing as some people pay $15 a month for this!!
You click on the red dots when they jump through the gate.
When there are reports of 1/2 or more red dots than the size of your camp you must click the 'safe up and smack' button.
The difficulty of the game would gradually decrease with less time intervals between the reports and clicking the 'safe up and smack' button, and the red dots get faster. Red dots that escape increase the difficulty level faster, and you lose the game when you get caught by the gang 1/2 your size.




Tobias Sjodin
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.13 20:40:00 - [163]
 

Haha, nice troll Suitonia. Laughing

Krakaan Byzantia
Gallente
Bolt Action Drive by
The Imperial Senate
Posted - 2011.08.14 05:33:00 - [164]
 

Originally by: CCP Prism X


At any rate, I'm using this topic to gauge if there's any support for a new BM system and looking for ideas on how that could be used to improve your EVE experience (and getting into the rhythm of posting again on these forums). Well, I also wanted to write a wall of text. Wink


Supported, especially annoying in WH space.

Ildryn
Posted - 2011.08.14 16:31:00 - [165]
 

Originally by: Suitonia
How about this instead, guaranteed to end lazy gate camper whines once and for all!

I propose that CCP make NPC drakes that just roam around in space, they are on autopilot, they have basic meta 1 / t1 equipment that they buy from the market, they will continue to roam until they get caught, when they get caught, they type generic smack in local.

Maybe someone could even make a Flash game involving gatecamping, I'm sure theres a nice profit margin in it involved seeing as some people pay $15 a month for this!!
You click on the red dots when they jump through the gate.
When there are reports of 1/2 or more red dots than the size of your camp you must click the 'safe up and smack' button.
The difficulty of the game would gradually decrease with less time intervals between the reports and clicking the 'safe up and smack' button, and the red dots get faster. Red dots that escape increase the difficulty level faster, and you lose the game when you get caught by the gang 1/2 your size.


Gate camps exist for more than noob fit Drakes.
2011.05.28 18:22:00

Victim: hi
Corp: State Protectorate
Alliance: Unknown
Faction: Caldari State
Destroyed: Raven Navy Issue
System: Ihakana
Security: 0.4
Damage Taken: 38918

Involved parties:

Name: hi
Security: -9.9
Corp: hi
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Megathron
Weapon: 425mm Railgun II
Damage Done: 9200

Name: hi
Security: -2.4
Corp: hi
Alliance: hi
Faction: NONE
Ship: Maelstrom
Weapon: Maelstrom
Damage Done: 8588

Name: hi (laid the final blow)
Security: -10.0
Corp: hi
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Bhaalgorn
Weapon: Dark Blood Mega Pulse Laser
Damage Done: 6731

Name: Alp Tarkhan
Security: -8.1
Corp: hi
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Megathron
Weapon: Megathron
Damage Done: 6665

Name: hi
Security: -6.2
Corp: hi
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Machariel
Weapon: 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II
Damage Done: 3325

Name: Ildryn
Security: 0.1
Corp: X Inc.
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Broadsword
Weapon: Broadsword
Damage Done: 2812

Name: hi
Security: -9.6
Corp: hi
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Damnation
Weapon: Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Damage Done: 899

Name: hi
Security: -5.7
Corp: hi
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Megathron
Weapon: Megathron
Damage Done: 698

Name: Hi
Security: -9.8
Corp: Hi
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Arazu
Weapon: 650mm Medium Gallium I Cannon
Damage Done: 0

Destroyed items:

Capacitor Flux Coil II
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Qty: 3
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I, Qty: 3
Shield Recharger II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile, Qty: 120
Hammerhead I, Qty: 7 (Drone Bay)

Dropped items:

Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Expanded Cargohold II, Qty: 2
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Qty: 4
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Cap Recharger II, Qty: 2
Capacitor Flux Coil II, Qty: 135 (Cargo)
Power Diagnostic System II
Dread Guristas Large Graviton Smartbomb
Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile, Qty: 90
Hammerhead I, Qty: 2 (Drone Bay)

Dub Step
Minmatar
Death To Everyone But Us
Posted - 2011.08.14 17:38:00 - [166]
 

Oh dear Ildryn, not to smart I see.

Oglyn
Posted - 2011.08.14 17:41:00 - [167]
 

Originally by: Dub Step
Oh dear Ildryn, not to smart I see.


Irony post is ironic.

Smendrik Von'Smendle
Posted - 2011.08.14 19:19:00 - [168]
 

Edited by: Smendrik Von''Smendle on 14/08/2011 19:26:15
Edited by: Smendrik Von''Smendle on 14/08/2011 19:20:04
I really think the BM system should be implimented for Cov-Ops ships/Scout ships only.

1. Remove BM sytem as implimented eliminating the DB/crashing aspect.

2. New High Slot module Advanced Computer Navigational System (ACNS). Requires skill Advanced Navigation(x5). Useable on scout ships/cov-op ships only.
Skill description:Skill at using the ACNS. Each level allows for 50 extra markers stored in the ACNS memory banks.

3. Make the BM shared through the right click menu as a fleet broadcast only. No worries about mega copying of BMs here.


Yes I know this encourages even more ALT producing but really that is what EVE utility is about...ALT shipmakers ALT Corp Management ALT Cynos ALT xxx.

To create an even greater churn rate of LP, create a new LP status item similar to the charters to build POS's in high sec. Call it warp beacons. Then Corps could use those beacons and 'desposit' them into the stargates/warp points(Belts/Planets/Moons) allowing their corp members the ability to warp to these beacons. Good for only a local area of space. Limited time frame use.

Edit. The beacons would be for warp to 0 capability only. So yea I am for the OP idea with the addons mentioned in this post.

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.08.14 21:30:00 - [169]
 

Originally by: Pesky LaRue
Originally by: CCP Prism X
I actually never said anything about WTZ other than implying that even with a BM overhaul there's no guarantee for WTZ being removed. I just want to overhaul the BM system because the technical limitations of that are the true reason for the introduction of WTZ so it feels like something left behind. I could see myself having fun with making a new BM system.. that says absolutely nothing about removing WTZ.

So.. I'm kinda admitting to derailing the topic in a direction I have interests in. Twisted Evil
It's how I roll!
even having said this, it's amazing how many posters ("trolls") deliberately or with willful, retarded abandon misinterpret your intention :)

this

Zor Rilla
Posted - 2011.08.14 23:37:00 - [170]
 

I play since 2008, so i never knew that big EVE without WTZ, but I think some of the points of not having it, like the massive reduction of travel times... And thinking about this i had an idea that could be interesting:

Add a warp delay, let's imagine it's time required for the ship navigation device to prepare the warp. If you wait this delay you warp at 0 of the location. If you force the warp before the delay ends, warp would be inaccurate leaving you at distance of the objective. The sooner you force the warp, the bigger distance, or bigger randomness.

Big ships could have less delay (more room for computers), balanced by the bigger align time. This could bring some interesting situations in pvp, specially in fleet fights. Would be cool if mods or rigs could reduce delay or randomess, making travel fits important again.

My 2 cents

Seamus Donohue
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.15 04:13:00 - [171]
 

Regarding travel times, any long warp is going to have the 5-second exponential ramp-up at the start of a warp and the 20-second ramp-down at the end of the warp. Variations in warp speed, therefore, don't change travel times much because having 6 times the warp speed of another ship doesn't shave off any of the 25 seconds of overhead. Travel times, however, will become significantly different if fast-warping ships can also get through the ramp-up and ramp-down faster.

Regarding bookmarks, first recall that the Tyrannis Deepsafe Limit is "the most distant celestial from the local star, plus 20 astronomical units". So, if the celestial object furthest from the star is 67 AU from the sun, then no player can warp to a point more than 87 AU from the sun. Ideally, I'd like to see bookmarks operate as follows:
1) Bookmarks are managed client-side, with the player able to create arbitrary coordinates for any bookmark (within the Tyrannis Deepsafe Limit).
2) When the client tells the server to warp the player to a set of coordinates, the server makes sure that the coordinates are within the Tyrannis Deepsafe Limit. If it's outside the limit, then the server instead warps the player to the closest point on the Limit (that way, you don't have players at 80,000 AU from the nearest celestial, again).
3) Bookmarks can be transmitted in any chat channel, corp bulletin, EVEMail, or similar.

Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries
R-I-P
Posted - 2011.08.15 04:59:00 - [172]
 

I tried to ignore this thread, but i'm going to have to weigh in here:

I think there should be a golden rule when looking at making tweaks and changes to Eve in one direction or another; the reason for making such changes should never be because you fail at PvP.

If Eve is too hard for you OP, go play something else, maybe something with ponies...

I guess this is going to be the new generic fail-wanabe-hisec-carebear-pvper whine thread, now that they got their way with unscanable ships.

You fail, so whine to CCP because its too hard. It'll be enough to make my freakin' eyes bleed from the sheer boredom of it all.

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2011.08.15 05:07:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: Desert Ice78
I tried to ignore this thread, but i'm going to have to weigh in here:

I think there should be a golden rule when looking at making tweaks and changes to Eve in one direction or another; the reason for making such changes should never be because you fail at PvP.

If Eve is too hard for you OP, go play something else, maybe something with ponies...

I guess this is going to be the new generic fail-wanabe-hisec-carebear-pvper whine thread, now that they got their way with unscanable ships.

You fail, so whine to CCP because its too hard. It'll be enough to make my freakin' eyes bleed from the sheer boredom of it all.


I'm not sure anywhere in your rantings I could find anything that relates to a rational opinion on warp to 15.

Can you clarify? How are ppl associating this to people that suck at pvp? Is it gate camps? I mean, unless you live your life in hisec with the scary popular bottlenecks to .4 being the only pvp you've seen or heard of, that is ******ed.

It's not about making life easier for any given play style, it's about making the game, space, larger. Restoring what was to anyone that played then an obviously better environment. The fact everyone instantly lands on an object was not intended for this game and has had detrimental effects since it's implementation.

Travel was the only thing that was a problem.... Bookmarks are the only reason CCP did it. A revisiting of the issue could restore the larger space aspect without revisiting the downsides.

Also, nerf the crap out of jump bridges.

And Jump clones should face a range barrier (force multiple jumps to go extreme distances)

Kro0k
Gallente
EVE Evacuation
Posted - 2011.08.15 05:35:00 - [174]
 

Its the ****ing future, we are in spaceships, we can warp where ever we want

mkint
Posted - 2011.08.15 05:39:00 - [175]
 

Oh, since we're making stupid suggestions, I want a cloaking device that lets me transition from gatecloak to regular cloak without an un-cloaked phase. Oh, and I want it covops style. And I want to fit it on any ship I choose. And I want it to only be usable by people with +5.0 sec status. And I want it to include a 5 AU no-cyno-needed jump drive. All of these are better ideas than removing WTZ.

Somatic Neuron
Posted - 2011.08.15 05:43:00 - [176]
 

IMHO, a FTL spaceship should be able to know the coordinates of a static gate, and WTZ in the first place. I think after you jump, you should load the system, in warp and land at the destination gate at some random distance, say 25-50km away from the gate. You would not enter the system until the client has received the destination grid information....

just saying :)

TImora Fosty
Warhamsters
Posted - 2011.08.15 06:19:00 - [177]
 

Actually the OP is attention***** Neutral

Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries
R-I-P
Posted - 2011.08.15 07:56:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: Desert Ice78
I tried to ignore this thread, but i'm going to have to weigh in here:

I think there should be a golden rule when looking at making tweaks and changes to Eve in one direction or another; the reason for making such changes should never be because you fail at PvP.

If Eve is too hard for you OP, go play something else, maybe something with ponies...

I guess this is going to be the new generic fail-wanabe-hisec-carebear-pvper whine thread, now that they got their way with unscanable ships.

You fail, so whine to CCP because its too hard. It'll be enough to make my freakin' eyes bleed from the sheer boredom of it all.


I'm not sure anywhere in your rantings I could find anything that relates to a rational opinion on warp to 15.

Can you clarify? How are ppl associating this to people that suck at pvp? Is it gate camps? I mean, unless you live your life in hisec with the scary popular bottlenecks to .4 being the only pvp you've seen or heard of, that is ******ed.

It's not about making life easier for any given play style, it's about making the game, space, larger. Restoring what was to anyone that played then an obviously better environment. The fact everyone instantly lands on an object was not intended for this game and has had detrimental effects since it's implementation.

Travel was the only thing that was a problem.... Bookmarks are the only reason CCP did it. A revisiting of the issue could restore the larger space aspect without revisiting the downsides.

Also, nerf the crap out of jump bridges.

And Jump clones should face a range barrier (force multiple jumps to go extreme distances)


From the OP:

"At least for lowsec and nullsec, I know you alliance folk in 0.0 hate the idea but how else are pirates meant to disrupt your operations when you can just fly all over with very little risk.

1. prevent bookmarks within 50km of star gates.
2. reinstate 15km warp in
3. laugh like **** at all the nubs that leave the game..."


Could you even read and understand that before you bothered to fail reply...

Arkon Hjallian
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.15 09:16:00 - [179]
 

Originally by: CCP Prism X

At any rate, I'm using this topic to gauge if there's any support for a new BM system and looking for ideas on how that could be used to improve your EVE experience (and getting into the rhythm of posting again on these forums). Well, I also wanted to write a wall of text. Wink


Prism X,

I think it's a foregone conclusion that the existing BM system is... old, tired and should have been euthanized many years ago.

My personal wishlist for a new BM system:

1. Corp bookmarks, like we have Corp Fittings and a corp role like Fitting Manager to handle them.
2. A reliable ability to warp fleet/wing/squad @ range to a bookmark
3. Ability to link a bookmark in a chat window / mail etc with the requisite ability to right click and 'add' or 'warp to'
4. A method of transferring bookmarks that doesn't bring the client to it's knees for tens of minutes. (Alternatively implement #1 and this likely wont be necessary for large values of bookmarks)

A small wishlist, but *if* there is ever a decision to work on the BM system, I would buy you a beer if you could get these incorporated :P



Sphit Ker
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.08.15 09:53:00 - [180]
 

A bookmark "feature" I'd kill for is the ability to move them. a.k.a edit XYZ coordinates somehow. Same way as moving probes around I guess? Saves us from the hit or miss approach of dropping BMs mid warp. You know, how they rarely appears where you wanted them? The way I see it, in solar system map mode (where you can move proves?), even when fully zoomed in, a single cubic pixel can easily contain en entire planet. Heck, probably an entire star, in fact.

* Saves us from warping back and fort, dropping BMs like monkeys in hopes THIS ONE THIS TIME will be where it must be. Drop one, move it. done.
* Won't allow for instant auto-magic perfect on-grid warpins. I've not yet decided whether this is a good or a bad thing.
* Makes "off path" safespots too easy to make?


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