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Nikita LaFem
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:16:00 - [1]
 

I have been doing Level 4 missions in a Rattler and SNI to pretty decent effect. I am training for a Tengu, but have about 30 days left to complete.

If I wanted to speed things up in my missioning till then, would replacing both with a CNR do that?

I think the answer is yes, but wanted to ask.

I typically rely upon the Rattlers tank for missioning, so I will have to learn to manage the environment a bit more with the CNR I expect, but would really like to speed things up.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:32:00 - [2]
 


Nikita LaFem
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:44:00 - [3]
 

Nice portrate - self?

Now back to my actual question.

I really do want to understand if the CNR, since I have not flow it, is typically a much better ship or a marginally better ship?

baltec1
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:47:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Nikita LaFem
Nice portrate - self?

Now back to my actual question.

I really do want to understand if the CNR, since I have not flow it, is typically a much better ship or a marginally better ship?


I'm in a funny mood.

You should get a golem, its better (geddit?)

Nikita LaFem
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:51:00 - [5]
 

Ohhhh, now I get it. Sorry, for being snipy.

Golem would be 69 days of training, over the 30 I have remaining for the Tengu.

Since I am headed the Tengu route, I am only trying to improve my mission performance till then.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:54:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Nikita LaFem
Ohhhh, now I get it. Sorry, for being snipy.

Golem would be 69 days of training, over the 30 I have remaining for the Tengu.

Since I am headed the Tengu route, I am only trying to improve my mission performance till then.


Wouldn't bother then, CNR is a step up from the raven but not worth turning in your snake.

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.10 19:01:00 - [7]
 

Honestly, I don't understand why the rattlesnake only has 4 launcher hardpoints.

5 would be a much more appropriate number, and even 6 would seem reasonable to me. Perhaps I'm a poor judge, but when they are priced at less than half the going rate for a Nightmare, Vindicator, or Machariel, I can't help but feel there's something wrong with it.

The 50% missile velocity bonus really is a travesty when you compare it to the Machariel's 25% RoF bonus, the Vindicator's 37.5% damage bonus, or the Nightmare's half-turret-double-damage bonus.

Shani Mangetsu
Posted - 2011.08.10 20:02:00 - [8]
 

If you're planning on running missions for 2-3 hours per day, for the next 30 days...Yes.
If you're just doing a mission now and then...then no.

CNR is one of the best missionrunners out there for a reason though.

MeigsYan
Black Out Horizons
Posted - 2011.08.10 20:09:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: MeigsYan on 10/08/2011 20:23:43


The tanking on a CNR is much worse than that of the Rattlesnake, but with the CNR you are taking the "best defense is a good offense" approach. Which is to say, you don't have to tank NPC's in a CNR as well as you do in a Rattlesnake, because they won't be around long enough to cause a lot of damage.

I fly both of these and usually use the CNR for raw speed unless it's a tougher mission and then the Rattlesnake snoozes through the damage, just at a slower rate.

For my ISK, the CNR is the best mission runner in available, the ability to switch between a CNR and a Rattlesnake at will makes most of the other ships pointless in terms of efficient mission running.

Of course if you don't have a [ fill in ship hull you just learned to fly ] then just the fun of outfitting it and flying it for a while will put in the front of the hanger launch queue.

Oh, and a tip from a Rattlesnake/CNR pilot, if you have top of the line Sentry skills for your Rattlesnake, the "secret" to maxing out the CNR's DPS is running it with three sentries instead of five mediums to pop the frigates at range, then clear the battleships and then launching a flight of five lights to handle any smaller ships that slipped inside the sentry tracking range. Give it try, I think you will like it.

I hope this helps,

Meigs

Nikita LaFem
Posted - 2011.08.10 20:34:00 - [10]
 

Quote:
Oh, and a tip from a Rattlesnake/CNR pilot, if you have top of the line Sentry skills for your Rattlesnake, the "secret" to maxing out the CNR's DPS is running it with three sentries instead of five mediums to pop the frigates at range, then clear the battleships and then launching a flight of five lights to handle any smaller ships that slipped inside the sentry tracking range. Give it try, I think you will like it.


Actually, that does help. Had not thought of that.

Are you typically running any type AB/MWD mod on the CNR to get it at optium range?

MeigsYan
Black Out Horizons
Posted - 2011.08.10 20:46:00 - [11]
 

Sometimes, if it's a mission known to have long traversal distances, like World's Collide, then yes, otherwise I just keep a tractor on the utility high slot to shave 20km off the travel distance to grab mission objectives.


Exploited Engineer
Posted - 2011.08.10 21:41:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Exploited Engineer on 10/08/2011 21:41:12
Originally by: Aamrr
Honestly, I don't understand why the rattlesnake only has 4 launcher hardpoints.


It's a drone boat, not a missile boat.

Also, with the 50% missile velocity bonus and enough spare mides for a target painter or two, it can use torpedoes effectively.

Quote:
5 would be a much more appropriate number, and even 6 would seem reasonable to me. Perhaps I'm a poor judge, but when they are priced at less than half the going rate for a Nightmare, Vindicator, or Machariel, I can't help but feel there's something wrong with it.


What's wrong with it ...? People who are deep into drone skills probably also have the skills to fly Gallente drone boats effectively and don't need the Rattlesnake (and would have to train missile and shield skills to actually use it). People who can fly Caldari ships well (and have trained shield and missile skills) usually don't invest heavily into drone skills (especially heavies/sentries), and they already have plenty of excellent mission boats to chose from (Raven/CNR/SNR/Golem/Drake/Nighthawk/Tengu) and therefore don't need a Rattlesnake.



Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.11 00:52:00 - [13]
 

And those that invest in the skills to use the ship effectively get almost no benefit, as even a tech-1 dominix will outperform it.

There's something wrong with that. =\

The Rattlesnake may have a missile velocity bonus, but it doesn't have the explosion velocity bonus or target painting bonus necessary to make torps work like the Golem does.

Kesshisan
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.11 03:33:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Aamrr
And those that invest in the skills to use the ship effectively get almost no benefit, as even a tech-1 dominix will outperform it.

There's something wrong with that. =\

The Rattlesnake may have a missile velocity bonus, but it doesn't have the explosion velocity bonus or target painting bonus necessary to make torps work like the Golem does.


That's because the Rattlesnake is a drone boat (as stated above in this thread) with a few missile perks tacked on at the end. True a Dominix can do better paper DPS, but a Rattlesnake with Bouncer IIs can actually do REAL DPS at 85km, unlike a Dominix with Railguns.

And while I do agree that a Dominix is a much better investment for L4s than a Rattlesnake if you're playing the isk efficiency game the Rattlesnake makes a much better afk mission boat than the Dominix. The snake has loads more tank, and while it is a huge waste on L4s, it is YOUR EvE. So if you want a snake just to say you have a snake and use it on L4s, by all means fly a snake.

I afk pilot a Gila in L4s and am looking into flying a Snake one of these days.

pussnheels
Amarr
Vintage heavy industries
Posted - 2011.08.11 08:13:00 - [15]
 

A cnr is ok and a nice step up from a raven but if going for the isk / hour i take the golem over a cnr hands dow
A while ago my caldari mission runner had the luxury owning both acnr and a golem
Compared to a golem a cnr is dissapointing
So in my opinion if you have the patience to train both awu to lvl 5 and t 2 torpedo s for a golem is one of the best allround missionships around

Pro s divine active shieldtank
Can fire all damage types making it versatile
Immune to. Most ewar types except ecm
Looting and salvage while killing rats
Con s price tag, the hull alone cost you about 50% more than a cnr
Slow , abit faster than the cnr but still slow

pussnheels
Amarr
Vintage heavy industries
Posted - 2011.08.11 08:22:00 - [16]
 

A tengu is great against kinetic weak rats , but it is certainly not the fastest mission boat
Using any other. Than kinetic missiles will slow things down alot

Pro s. Coolest non bs missionrunner around
Fast boat and can hit targets 80 k away
Immune to almost all e war even with a eccm against ecm
Relative fast to train , you can have all subsystems trained to lvl 5 in a month
Divine tank, combination of speed tanking and shield bonus
Cons. Price tag a fully fitted tengu with t2 modules can easily cost you almost a bil not going to mention. The price with faction modules
Very vulnerable against web/scram combinations
When using anything else than kinetic damage missiles it becomes much slower in killing rats

Nikita LaFem
Posted - 2011.08.11 14:16:00 - [17]
 

Quote:
I afk pilot a Gila in L4s and am looking into flying a Snake one of these days.


I fly a Gila too, and would really like to see your fit for doing L4's. My skills are pretty good, but I do not think I could run an L4 with my Gila - if I could I would sell the Rattler and just use it. Now, I have not tried to do that, but with the volume of incoming DPS, unless the signature is small enough and the Gila is fast enough I am not sure I could do it.

I would really like to hear how you do - teach me.

Aside from the above, it sounds like the CNR is a marginal improvement and probably not worth the investment for the time I have left prior to getting into the Tengu. As much as I love the Scorpion hull, I have just grown tired of how slow it is. Really, that goes for any battleship. So, I want to recoupe some of the major investment I have in these boats (knowing that the Tengu is going to cost me dealy) and try to stick to more standard ship ilk to run these missions. And, yes, I know as my skills improve this cability will improve.

Tore Smith
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2011.08.11 15:21:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Nikita LaFem
Quote:
I afk pilot a Gila in L4s and am looking into flying a Snake one of these days.


I fly a Gila too, and would really like to see your fit for doing L4's. My skills are pretty good, but I do not think I could run an L4 with my Gila - if I could I would sell the Rattler and just use it. Now, I have not tried to do that, but with the volume of incoming DPS, unless the signature is small enough and the Gila is fast enough I am not sure I could do it.

I would really like to hear how you do - teach me.

Aside from the above, it sounds like the CNR is a marginal improvement and probably not worth the investment for the time I have left prior to getting into the Tengu. As much as I love the Scorpion hull, I have just grown tired of how slow it is. Really, that goes for any battleship. So, I want to recoupe some of the major investment I have in these boats (knowing that the Tengu is going to cost me dealy) and try to stick to more standard ship ilk to run these missions. And, yes, I know as my skills improve this cability will improve.


@ op: i would do it just to have another ship in my hangar.

@ nikita:

afk, launcher is there to get aggro and after that switch to fof, so that new spawns are aggroed by you and not your drones (works sometimes):

[Gila, Level IV lazy]
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I

Shield Recharger II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Gistum C-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Gistum C-Type Heat Dissipation Amplifier
Gistum C-Type Magnetic Scattering Amplifier

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Stalker F.O.F. Heavy Missile I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I


Ogre II x5


more hassle, but with sentries so instant dmg. deploy and orbit them. hardeners according to mission. dont get webbed, tank is on the light side, so movement is key:

[Gila, l4]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Co-Processor II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster
Heat Dissipation Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager I
Salvager I
Drone Link Augmentor I

Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II


Garde II x5


cheers!

Exploited Engineer
Posted - 2011.08.11 16:27:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: pussnheels
Immune to. Most ewar types except ecm


If by that you mean "has lock times of over a minute on frigates under heavy damping", then yes. Laughing

It's completely immune to tracking disruption due to zero turret slots.

Quote:
Con s price tag, the hull alone cost you about 50% more than a cnr
Slow , abit faster than the cnr but still slow


Another con: Gaping EM resistance hole, large enough to drive a carrier through. Missions vs. Sanshas or Blood Raiders aren't going to be fun.

pussnheels
Amarr
Vintage heavy industries
Posted - 2011.08.12 08:11:00 - [20]
 

Good point , but that is why most of us use drones to get those pesky frigs out of the way

And the sensor dampening sure it is a a nuiscance , but most of thetime those serpentis rats come close enough that their dampening is mostly harmless , and for those elite cruisers , i think most of us. Kill them first no matter what race they are


The EM gap another good point , any smart mission runner uses hardners in relation to the rats he is fighting and if you are using a golem , in my experience even with a meager 40%EM resist your shield boost rate is high enough to compensate plus that you usually kill them fast enough so that compensates that huge gap aswell

Only a few missions against blood raiders or sansha it does make a difference
Recon1/3 when you not fast enough in killing the first few spawns
And in the amarr epic mission you have a few missions where you wish you had more em resist

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2011.08.12 08:34:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Aamrr
And those that invest in the skills to use the ship effectively get almost no benefit, as even a tech-1 dominix will outperform it.

There's something wrong with that. =\



Ships aren't to be judged just by their paper dps...

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.08.12 11:56:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Aamrr
And those that invest in the skills to use the ship effectively get almost no benefit, as even a tech-1 dominix will outperform it.

There's something wrong with that. =\



Ships aren't to be judged just by their paper dps...


Are you suggesting that the rattlesnake's applied DPS is any better? Rolling Eyes Good luck using torps without an explosion velocity or target painting bonus.


 

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