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Normal citizen
Posted - 2011.08.10 15:26:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Normal citizen on 10/08/2011 15:31:46
Enable fitting covert ops cloaks to them. black ops are now worth 500-600mil


Spookyjay
Caldari
Animosity.
Posted - 2011.08.10 15:41:00 - [2]
 

they work fine. had loads kills in em. tbh people justto stupid to figure out how to use em

SHICAGO
Posted - 2011.08.10 17:35:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Spookyjay
they work fine. had loads kills in em. tbh people justto stupid to figure out how to use em

Or they're too stupid to figure out something is wrong. It's one of the top ten requested changes in the CSM crowd sourcing and pretty much everyone, except for stupid people, agrees that it needs to be fixed.

So, you know, STFU

OP go to Features and Ideas subforum to find the incredibly large amount of discussion on this topic.

Jacob Holland
Gallente
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
Posted - 2011.08.10 17:54:00 - [4]
 

Fixing Black Ops was certainly a CSM priority...

But Cov Ops cloaks are not the way to do it. And they're not on the list.

Jump Range is the biggie from my perspective but the CSM entry is also interested in targetting ability, fitting and so forth.

Apparently they've already made the Covert Cyno seperate from the standard with regard to cyno jammers.

Linkage

Inserith Peon
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:44:00 - [5]
 

Jump range and so on are very necessary changes. However, I have always found it odd that they don't fit Cov Ops cloaks.

I have mixed feelings about the cloak, you can warp still warp to a safe and cloak up obviously but you get none of the other benefits... Would it make them over-powered if they had them?

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2011.08.10 21:23:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: SHICAGO
It's one of the top ten requested changes in the CSM crowd sourcing and pretty much everyone, except for stupid people, agrees that it needs to be fixed.


What does the "crowd" know about Black Ops? Does the "crowd" fly them? How many people in the "crowd" can even board one?

Dub Step
Minmatar
Death To Everyone But Us
Posted - 2011.08.10 21:30:00 - [7]
 

Black Ops are effective as they are if you know how to use them. Only scrubs request cov-ops cloaking as a 'solution'.

SHICAGO
Posted - 2011.08.10 22:37:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Dub Step
Black Ops are effective as they are if you know how to use them. Only scrubs request cov-ops cloaking as a 'solution'.

Only idiots use the term 'scrubs'. Go back to WoW. Enlighten us, oh boddhisatva, tell us how to use them.
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
What does the "crowd" know about Black Ops? Does the "crowd" fly them? How many people in the "crowd" can even board one?

Instead of questioning the wisdom of the crowd, how about you present the counter argument? Even a cursory examination of the long standing threads on the topic, CCP dev commentary, alliance tournament commentary, scrapheap, and other OOG sites shows the overwhelming opinion is that they suck. While its sometimes true that the minority opinion is right, more often its true that the majority consensus is correct.

So make your argument.

fgft Athonille
Posted - 2011.08.10 23:06:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: SHICAGO

Only idiots use the term 'scrubs'. Go back to WoW. Enlighten us, oh boddhisatva, tell us how to use them.


involves a jump portal and covert ops cyno. no need what so ever for covert ops cloak.

protip. you are the definition of scrub

Noisrevbus
Posted - 2011.08.10 23:17:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Noisrevbus on 10/08/2011 23:59:32

Originally by: SHICAGO

Instead of questioning the wisdom of the crowd, how about you present the counter argument?


The short reply to that question is www.eve-search.com, there's been numerous topics on Blackops over the past year.

To at least give you something constructive to play with, the longer answer is that it's the only ship in the game capable of providing "bridging" yet still is within a ship-size and price-range that is mobile and suitable for offensive use. That alone make the class very useful as a tool for those inclined.

I'm definately not saying that it couldn't do with a buff or two, but it's not without use as things stand. In fact, it's potential is perfectly in tune with it's ideal - it's just that it could use a nudge or two to reinforce that role. Fitting issues spring to mind quite early as almost any fit you see incorporate alot of faction mods; not because it's an expensive ship and you want the edge, but because you have to due to fitting issues. Fitting them with faction is all well and good, but as things stand you lack option.

Apart from that, most other tweaks is a question of what you see them do and in which direction you want to poke them. I am strongly against more jump-range. Not because i dislike Blackops, but because this game does not need more stale point A-B hotdropping fggtry. Something along the line of reinforcing the bridging is probably a good idea though (as opposed to more conventional tank-spank). My own favourite pick is tweaking fuel-consumption in some way; less fuel, larger bays, less consumption for cruiser-size - since the current balance award A-B portal traps in/and limitation to bomber-blobs. I'd love to see the Blackops bridge a larger array of ships, over shorter distances, more often. Lending themselves better to supporting a well-balanced and mobile covert gang.

Did that answer your question?

Dub Step
Minmatar
Death To Everyone But Us
Posted - 2011.08.10 23:38:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: SHICAGO
Originally by: Dub Step
Black Ops are effective as they are if you know how to use them. Only scrubs request cov-ops cloaking as a 'solution'.

Only idiots use the term 'scrubs'. Go back to WoW. Enlighten us, oh boddhisatva, tell us how to use them.

You are the epitome of people suggesting changes to black ops. Admitting you don't know how, then go and ask people how to use them in the first place. If you don't know how valuable they can be then you have no reason to fly them. The simple fact of the matter is, I am not about to provide free information on cutting edge tactics to people like you that put no effort into researching the matter yourself. The information is guarded because the people that use those tactics don't want people to easily form counters. Try finding good information on Interdiction outside of fleet ops and you will find the same closed doors.

It's laughable that you ask me to 'go back to WOW' because you don't appreciate how powerful a sub capital that can bridge ships quickly across the map is; run along now.

Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
Posted - 2011.08.11 00:09:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Noisrevbus
Edited by: Noisrevbus on 10/08/2011 23:59:32

Originally by: SHICAGO

Instead of questioning the wisdom of the crowd, how about you present the counter argument?


The short reply to that question is www.eve-search.com, there's been numerous topics on Blackops over the past year.

To at least give you something constructive to play with, the longer answer is that it's the only ship in the game capable of providing "bridging" yet still is within a ship-size and price-range that is mobile and suitable for offensive use. That alone make the class very useful as a tool for those inclined.

I'm definately not saying that it couldn't do with a buff or two, but it's not without use as things stand. In fact, it's potential is perfectly in tune with it's ideal - it's just that it could use a nudge or two to reinforce that role. Fitting issues spring to mind quite early as almost any fit you see incorporate alot of faction mods; not because it's an expensive ship and you want the edge, but because you have to due to fitting issues. Fitting them with faction is all well and good, but as things stand you lack option.

Apart from that, most other tweaks is a question of what you see them do and in which direction you want to poke them. I am strongly against more jump-range. Not because i dislike Blackops, but because this game does not need more stale point A-B hotdropping fggtry. Something along the line of reinforcing the bridging is probably a good idea though (as opposed to more conventional tank-spank). My own favourite pick is tweaking fuel-consumption in some way; less fuel, larger bays, less consumption for cruiser-size - since the current balance award A-B portal traps in/and limitation to bomber-blobs. I'd love to see the Blackops bridge a larger array of ships, over shorter distances, more often. Lending themselves better to supporting a well-balanced and mobile covert gang.

Did that answer your question?

Hey, dude - what's your main? The stuff above looks like a complete copy of my own thoughs, with the exception of very few details.

Cyniac
Gallente
Twilight Star Rangers
Posted - 2011.08.11 09:38:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Cyniac on 11/08/2011 09:38:51
As a black ops pilot - Agreed the Blops just needs a bit of tweaking while a bit of extra range would be nice (say 5 LY with max skills instead of the current 4.5) the biggies are indeed fitting requirements and the fuel consumption which really is quite high (fuel bay or lowering the fuel costs could both work).

Incidentally - to the OP the Blops is already worth those 600 million to some people. Just not to all people.

Oh and... iirc wasn't the panther the most efficient isk/kills ratio ship in the game by a good margin? That tells me blops are already working pretty well.

Magnus Veyr
Posted - 2011.08.11 12:27:00 - [14]
 

All BOs need is a range/fuel usage change and higher scan res.

Dorian Wylde
Posted - 2011.08.11 16:34:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Jacob Holland


But Cov Ops cloaks are not the way to do it. And they're not on the list.



I've never understood this view.

What is the black ops 4th bonus? Increased speed while cloaked.

What do covert ops cloaks do? Let you move full speed while cloaked.

Give them covert ops cloaks, so they can get a useful 4th bonus. Why change anything else?

SHICAGO
Posted - 2011.08.11 17:24:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Noisrevbus

The short reply to that question is www.eve-search.com, there's been numerous topics on Blackops over the past year.

That first statement isn't really a reply, since the same search turns up all the things people don't like and all the reasons that they're the most underused ships in the game, even less than titans.

You go on to repeat the three or four most common arguments for tweaking them, which, in light of your first comment, is ironic. So you support less hotdropping? Then why not nerf capital jump range and titan bridges? Black Ops are defined by their hotdropping role, why not give them more range while decreasing it the others?

On the plus side, you've at least switched from mindless trolling to constructive discussion. Not like this guy:
Originally by: Dub Step

You are the epitome of people suggesting changes to black ops. Admitting you don't know how, then go and ask people how to use them in the first place. If you don't know how valuable they can be then you have no reason to fly them. The simple fact of the matter is, I am not about to provide free information on cutting edge tactics to people like you that put no effort into researching the matter yourself. The information is guarded because the people that use those tactics don't want people to easily form counters. Try finding good information on Interdiction outside of fleet ops and you will find the same closed doors.

It's laughable that you ask me to 'go back to WOW' because you don't appreciate how powerful a sub capital that can bridge ships quickly across the map is; run along now.

LOL. Translation: You don't know how to use one.

Enlighten us, guy who knows so much more that he must keep his incredible methodologies secret. Which do you use? Hotdropping to an Arazu/Rapier? Cloaked gate camping? Fleet cavalry support? Answer: you've never flown one. So prove yourself.

MeBiatch
Posted - 2011.08.11 18:04:00 - [17]
 

it is of my opinion that after the last speed nerf that BO would be better suited for tier II bc's then Tier I bs's...

Other then that an increased jump range and fuel bay would be awesome...

Dub Step
Minmatar
Death To Everyone But Us
Posted - 2011.08.11 18:17:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: SHICAGO
LOL. Translation: You don't know how to use one.

Enlighten us, guy who knows so much more that he must keep his incredible methodologies secret. Which do you use? Hotdropping to an Arazu/Rapier? Cloaked gate camping? Fleet cavalry support? Answer: you've never flown one. So prove yourself.

I'm perfectly happy for you to believe I can't use one.

stu007
Posted - 2011.08.13 11:25:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Magnus Veyr
All BOs need is a range/fuel usage change and higher scan res.


Exactly this. I fly a Blops, and the jump range could do with a small buff. And it is a pain to take a cov ops hauler around with you with spare fuel. Maybe less fuel useage, or a bigger fuel bay.


 

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